Childfree? It’s Anti-Christian Not To Want Children
1 10 2006If you’re childfree and a Christian you are unlikely to find a comfortable spot in most churches today. If you’re childfree and still going to church, more power to you. Pray for strength to continue, you’re going to need it. It’s probably a matter of time before you find you’ve had enough with the less than subtle efforts to help you see the light.
Why is this?
Because the church (and the Christian brethren and sisterhood) do not believe that once married, a woman has the right to decide if she is going to have children or not. A wife’s duty is to bear children. And it’s sealed right from the marriage Order of Service. Many churches hold this view (which I call narrow and conservative) and it is based mainly on their reading and interpretation of the Old Testament.
I can find nowhere in the Bible where it says that not wanting to parent and choosing not to have children is a sin. Jesus himself neither married or had children. Neither did Paul.
The Catholic church of course goes several steps further with its views on contraception – as far as it’s concerned contraception (any contraception) is condemned by the Pope. But that is a subject for another post.
As far as the Church is concerned, the woman’s role, after submitting to her husband, is to have children. “Go forth and multiply” among other scripture is taken very literally by both the church and many Christians. Children are in all cases seen as a blessing. If you don’t have them, you’re seen to be a “failure” as a woman and “denying your husband the joys of parenthood.” So, little wonder that the majority of women in church will be trying to have children. At churches I attended for several years hardly a week went by without women coming forward to receive prayer if they were having problems conceiving a child. Everything, down to moving heaven and earth if necessary, would be done to ensure that help would be given to help women conceive.
I used to wonder if God didn’t get fed up with all the requests…so many many needy abused and abandoned children in the world yet, here you are banging on his door saying “ Please God, I want my own child…”
Since “barrenness” (having no children) is considered to be a curse within the church, prayers will continue until the woman conceives. This could take years. If you’re married and a Christian and in church circles, you will be asked when you’re planning on having children. Saying you don’t want to have children, is likely to produce the same reaction as if you had suddenly grown horns.
If you’re childfree, every effort will be actively made by the church to ensure you change your mind, are “brought back to your senses” or shown “the error of your ways.” These efforts will not be half-hearted. They can be subtle or quite overt. They should not be underestimated. They can range from threats that the childfree miscreants are headed for eternal damnation to accusations of trying to destabilise the church family.
Mainly though, the underlying message will be how much being childfree is going against God’s will and purpose and how sinful it is.
Christians who happen to be childfree have been called rebels against God’s will (that’s probably the nicest of the things they will be called) by the Christian sisterhood and brotherhood, heavily counselled, and even accused of trying to de-stabilise the church with anti-Christian childfree ideas which must not be allowed to take root.
It doesn’t matter that perhaps the individuals feel they would not make good parents, or that they cannot afford to have children. All that matters is that they have chosen not to have them. They’ll be on everyone’s prayer list, and it won’t be at all unusual for people to call at all hours of the day to tell you “they are praying for you”, or more ominously to “pray with you”.
Now, if you are strong you might be able to handle it. But don’t kid yourself that you are going to convince a church that holds this view that you are right. The church is very child-centred and being child free – as opposed to being childless – is as close to heresy as makes no difference. So, my advice is to save your time and your energy because they will have an answer for everything you say and more, and everything you say will be wrong as far as they are concerned. If you do change your mind (and decide that yes, you really should be having babies) that’s a victory for them, and they will proclaim it as such. You will be an example of someone who “has seen the light”.
So what are your options? Well, whatever tactics they use they will try and break you down in a way that will mess you and your faith up if you don’t get out. You may find at first that you can handle it. But after a while, constantly being left out of gatherings in which you would normally be involved, the repeated invites to “mother, parent and child oriented” activities; the constant need to defend your beliefs in the face of the overwhelming church community belief that’s trying to convince you that you’re not only making a mistake, but that you’re on the road to a not very nice place will become wearying.
You may even begin to wonder whether they are right and you, after all, are wrong. They seem so certain and they have scripture to back it up.You believe that same scripture so how can they be wrong? You believe they mean well, even if their well-meaningness is misplaced. You may begin to question your motives (even though you never did before). You will probably question your faith particularly when every sermon appears to be directed at you. You’ll question God of course, because how can these people claim to love Him when they are making your life a veritable hell on earth. After some time you’ll begin to wonder whether being in a place that makes you feel so miserable where before you only felt the joy of belonging is worth it after all. And you’ll begin to think maybe you have to leave. That will probably save your sanity, and maybe even your faith.
But leaving the church is huge step and, for many Christians, not easy to do. You leave friends, families, and acquaintances. You leave the familiar, the community and the song. Once you leave you may never go back, and there is something you will always miss about it. You know people who did just that. They were never quite the same. So maybe, unable to face that unwelcome prospect, you decide to grit your teeth and stick it out. Until the next time.
An exaggeration? No. If anything, it’s understated. I was a committed church goer for many years. And for the record, for those who like to bash Christianity along with bashing other religions - that isn’t where I’m coming from. I left before I had fully decided either way whether I was going to have children or not, but do know childfree Christians who have left the church or are having a hard time remaining because of the pro-natal and child-centric nature of the church community. I know women who prayed for years to have a child – some did and some didn’t. I learnt that far from being different, the church, as far as being childfree is concerned, is a merely a microcosm of society, and our society is extremely pro-natal.
Believing something different from the community makes you stand out and be seen as a potential threat that must be neutralised. It doesn’t matter if this belief is a personal lifestyle choice.
Even so, leaving a church community is hard to do (the more involved in it you are the harder it is, it can be like a family) and you have to be very strong to do so and risk losing your faith. Happily mine is, if anything, stronger and I found that I didn’t need a church to confirm my faith.
I don’t buy into the “children are a blessing” form of emotional blackmail. Neither should you.
If even a part of you doesn’t want children, for God’s sake don’t have them.
“A wife’s duty is to bear children.”
Never have I heard that statement when a couple recited vows as they tied the knot.
My take is this:
How one percieves their religion is in my estimation, a very personal thing.
The decision to bear children, I think is even more personal. It should be nobody’s business what you decide.
I have always thought that the main reason for that “be fruitful and multiply” was there for one reason…to increase the numbers of a given religion; therefore; giving that religion a louder voice. Nothing more then a way to increase numbers.
So, as for your decision, I applaud it.
It a decision that you and your husband have made, and that should be that.
It is your body, and nobody, but nobody has the right to tell you what to do with it, nobody has the right to make a life decision for you, other then yourself!
Mike
from:
String Cheese Theory, and
Pull My Finger…
Yeah, this is a constant battle for me, being a Christian and childfree. I’m still going to church at this point. Fortunately, those in the church who know our decision have been accepting of it and have not tried to change our minds. However, I get weary of all the child-centered programs and activities. There doesn’t seem to be much place for those of us who don’t have kids or don’t want to work with kids.
I’ve been at the same church for 22 years. It was about 10 or 12 years ago that I told people I didn’t want children. Of course, I got raised eyebrows and some comments. Since I’m single, I don’t get the pressure that married couples must feel, as out-of-wedlock births aren’t encouraged.
Those who have become pregnant without a spouse (and there are quite a few in my church) aren’t necessarily condemned because they chose to have the child, as opposed to aborting it. In fact, baby showers are thrown with as much enthusiasm for unwed moms as they would be if she had a ring on her finger.
I don’t let the “women must have babies” mindset in church bother me. I stopped attending any “family-friendly” church events (predominately set up for the kids) years ago. I used to be one of the leaders of a church youth group; they can’t get me to volunteer to do that anymore. I used to be one of the women regularly placed on the nursery schedule, but I don’t do that anymore, either.
The Bible is open to interpretation, in my opinion. I find it funny that the pro-breed set always overlook that while Jesus loved children, he had none of his own.
@Mike - thank you!
Hello again twiga92 - thanks for commenting. I personally think its very sad that the church is content to let childfree people either drift away or be frustrated by failing to meet their needs as they do child centred people. I used to think church was where you went to come in from the battle, but often found it was quite the reverse.
Church is supposed to be inclusive, instead they seem content to lose people who have skills, gifts and talents the church could definitely use. Thanks again!
@ hillari - Good on you… as you say perhaps they would put more pressure on you if you were married - as you say they can’t very well encourage you to have children if you’re single.When you’re married though it’s definitely an expectation.
I love your phrase “the pro-breed set” though… and you’re right - why do they always conveniently ignore the fact that Jesus himself didn’t have children….? I suppose because it doesn’t validate their reproduce and be blessed point of view.
The worst part about it all is what you touched on in the very last sentence of your post - that is, if even just a small part of you feels that you don’t want children, then forcefully having children means that you are doing everyone involved a disservice.
I can’t say I’ve personally ever come across this feeling of ‘you must have children’, but then again, I’m not married yet. We’ll see how it goes once I am. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if it’s like you say, and that’s a real shame.
My spouse and I are very involved in our church. We’ve been married for 5 years and we do not have children. I hear everyone’s opinion from, you need to have kids or you are being selfish and sinning against God. You are being quite selfish….just because you don’t have the desire to be a parent, doesn’t mean it’s not God’s will for your life! I’ve heard it all. My problem - my spouse wants to have kids and I, do not! I know it’s not biblical to be in disagreement with my spouse. I was very clear up-front, even before engagement about my lack of desire to have a family and was very clear in not marrying me if that was not the same desire! There is no threat to me that my spouse is going to leave me… But, now, I’m feeling terrilby guilty as if I am withholding something from my spouse. This is very difficult. Add the pressures from most of my friends and family - primarily my church family…I do feel like a failure, a selfish & abnormal person. I’ve read alot of commentaries on this topic. From, it’s a deliberate sin to be in a childless Christian marriage to it’s ok not to have kids, as long as you are filling up your time with meaningful work for God that would prevent us from having kids (missionary work, 14 hour days doing cancer research etc). I really don’t know what to believe anymore. I feel damned if I do (lack of desire) and damned if I don’t (shunned/looked down upon both in and outside of the church and my spouse!) It’s very tough to be a married childless Christian; I feel like a complete outcast! Help! Any words of advice?
Hi - Thanks for sharing this. Maybe others will contribute here as well… I can only speak from my own opinion and experience. And what I will say is that you have a number of things going on. The fact that your spouse wants kids and you don’t is a real problem (in my opinion very worrying and the much bigger issue) however if you were very clear before you got married I personally don’t think you should feel guilty. You will though.
From what you’ve written the church pressure is probably feeding that guilt. From my experience, when you are involved in the church you have to accept it is about pleasing nearly everyone else BUT yourself. Whether this is God, the Pastor, the Youth Group, Brothers, the Sisters, or any of the other myriad of “obligations” that come as being part of the Church community. The fact of the matter is that your needs (apart from if they are spiritual) come last, if they feature anywhere at all. If you don’t want children, you don’t fit as far as mainstream church is concerned.It is as sad and as simple as that.
After spending years trying to “conform” to a ridiculous (often man-made) ideal, where my every decision and thought seemed to be at odds with some church “doctrine,” where the guilt card was played liberally, I decided I’d had enough of people (who had no clue about my life) dictating to me how I should live, how I should think.That is not what Jesus intended.
After years of being very involved in the Church, I left. I could either give up who I was or keep trying to “fit” as you trying to do. As far as I am concerned, it doesn’t work and the price was too high. There is a huge amount of pressure on married Christian women to have children, and I wouldn’t undersetimate it for one single minute. You’re right, it’s touch being childfree and Christian - in the Church.
Christians will say you are selfish, abnormal etc, etc. What counts isn’t what they say, it is what you think, believe and feel yourself. But if you remain then you either have to find a way to resist the pressure, (and if your husband isn’t with you on this it is going to be extremely hard) conform to it and like it - or get out, and find somewhere where you can live out your faith and who you are without “conditions.” Many have done this. You are allowing yourself to be pushed around by others but at the end of the day YOU are responsible for you. You will never ever please everyone. Why are you wasting your time trying? You might as well please yourself.
If you try to ‘fit in’ you will never be happy; you will always know that you are making yourself ‘fit in’. Even if a person is the type who takes pleasure from pleasing others, they will feel like something is not right in their lives. There are times when you just have to put yourself first.
I can’t relate directly to the having kids thing but I know a thing or two about being pressured. I basically disowned my parents because of cultural and religious differences. Its one thing to ask something of someone and get a ‘no’ answer and leave it at that. To keep forcing an issue, however subtle, is intolerance in my book. More than anything in life, it really annoys me when people imply that a person can’t be happy being single, or be in a relationship but not be married or be married and not have kids, or… well there’s always something or other.
Thanks for your opinions and advice Mosh & Britgirl! I am a very strong person; deeply rooted in my faith. I’m not feeling ostrasized by my friends/family inside or ouside the church. My intention is not to decide whether to leave the church or not. Sometimes God’s will for our lives is about taking us through a journey and trusting Him…when we don’t understand what’s going on until we show up…well…that is devine intervention!
Our church has not made a statement that if you are married, it’s your duty to then have kids. They are asking me to figure out why I don’t want them. Is it purely no desire to be a parent, or is it more about desire to have a life free from the ties that bind me from being a parent (fear, money, our screwed up society, lack of patience to cope with children of all ages…from crying unconsolable babies to bratty, spoiled teenagers! Broken bones to broken hearts, word problems and math equations I didn’t know how to solve when I was 10! etc) I know my church body loves and accepts us (Grace) even if we choose not to have kids!
I was doing a major search to see if it’s unbiblical to be a married Christian and abstain from having children just because you don’t want to have them, when I stumbled upon your blog & really just wanted to talk to someone who didn’t know me!
Some people are called to singleness (look at Jesus!) Those called to singleness or who want to be single are typically more interested in building the kingdom, than nurturing a relationship/marriage…that’s their purpose from God…the life He made for them & that they are following. Those people who want to have a spouse or want to have a baby and for one reason or not cannot…then that’s sad and apparently God is trying to teach them something…probably that reliance on Him is most important or more important than really anything we could ever want…some people make the wanting a potential spouse or baby or new job or more money a god….and we can’t have two god’s and God will fight us until we relinquish our other god to get our attention back on Him! Jesus didn’t marry and have kids because he was saving the world and making it possible for us to have community with God through prayer through the holy spirit & ultimately to get to heaven! You can also look at the life of Paul. He was a serious evangelist; building the kingdom was his mission! Jesus & Paul were a wee bit too busy for a wives and kids.
I’m no savior. I can’t compare myself to Jesus or Paul. Sure, I’m involved at my church…but I’m no missionary. So, my reasons for not wanting to start a family are due to being a bit older (late 30’s), having a good career, nice home, ability and freedom to travel or just go for a walk without any responsibility and fear…fear of my body changing, birth, not having enough money to give my kids a life I’d want to give them! Plus, I’m not the most patient of people and I really get bored babbling with babies or bonding with 7 years olds or dealing with 13 year olds or paying for college in 20 years when I’m in my 50’s! My reasons are clearly selfish; I lack desire! Isn’t that a sin? Isn’t a life as a Christian all about living sacrificially? Being a servent leader, just like Christ? Isn’t that in fact the Christlike attitude we should all take? I’m not wired like most people. Most people want to get married and have kids and grandkids. I’m really soul searching. Do I submit to my dear husband who loves me enough to sacrifice a life without children, without complaint about it either? Isn’t he then submitting to me…srewing with God’s intended creation of Order, as he intended it to be? I am a Christian who wants to please her heavenly father…not anyone else. What is God’s will for my life in this area? A burning, speaking bush would be really quite helpful right now! The bible is clearly pro-children. This is a seriuos decision; I just don’t know what to do or more importantly, what God wants me to do! Me writing this isn’t to bash my church or any church or all Christians or my friends/family…it’s more personal than that. We are all sinners…so we have to extend grace constantly to our brothers and sisters inside/outside the church, even when they badger us about whether or not we should get married or have kids. They all do these things out of love…just remember that! They know not that they are offensive or hurtful, because that is not their intent. You all who are anti-church because you can’t deal with the opinions of others really just need to do unto others as you would have them do unto you…GRACE. They may never do unto you the way you do unto them…but you can be the bigger, more loving, more full of Grace person…be the light…be an example to them and for them! I know it’s hard. You have to really rely on God for strenght above and beyond your own strenght or you’ll lose your mind! Christ called us to be in community with one another and love one another. So, please, don’t isolate youselves from Christian community every time they don’t see eye to eye with you! Be bigger than that!
I’m not any closer to making a decision on whether to have children or not…but it sure is great to have an outlet…be heard…get advice and opinions from you all! Maybe something you all say will help me hear what God is tryng to say to me! Is my life to be childless or with children? It’s not all about putting myself first…that’s humanism…not Christianity. Be very careful with thinking that way….I pray God reveals himself to you all!
Thank you again for listening. If you have any other words of encouragement or advice or opinions…I welcome them all! I clearly need all the help I can get!
I can’t really answer your questions. You don’t want children and you’re beating yourself up trying to find out why this is. Your reasons are pefectly valid.(I’m puzzled as to why you feel that lack of desire is a sin)…What I am reading is that they are seem to be at variance with what you fundamentally believe a “Christian woman” should feel. Many people want to have kids..fine. And many people don’t.
Like I said, I can only give you my opinion based on my experience. You have a lot of confusion going on, and clearly you need to find out what it is you want and be at peace with it. If you are waiting for God to tell you what to do I do hope you get the answer you want. I rather think it is you that is waiting for a revelation from God :-). It is never a bad thing to seek guidance, we all need it, but I know God gave us a free will and the last time I looked expected us to use it.
That said, I will respond to a couple of points you made …
“You all who are anti-church because you can’t deal with the opinions of others really just need to do unto others as you would have them do unto you…GRACE.
Please don’t assume like this. Firstly, you don’t know me, any of the posters by anything other than what you’ve read on this blog and what we have decided to share with you so making such a statement is out of line and won’t encourage anyone to share their opinions with you. Unless you are using this as a forum to preach?(if so, I ask that you kindly not do so)… It also brings back reminders the exact reason’s I had to get away from people who always claimed to be doing things “out of love” as a cover for forcing their views on others to the extent of badgering them into submission. Love involves actually respecting people, their opinions and views. So feel free to post, share, join in, but I’d really appreciate it if you didn’t preach because I find it is a real turn off. I recognize it when I see it! Every time.
“They may never do unto you the way you do unto them…but you can be the bigger, more loving, more full of Grace person…be the light…be an example to them and for them! I know it’s hard”
As for me, my example to them is to be myself, not conform to what others think I should be, do and think. And also to tell them when they are overstepping the line. I don’t want to be “more” anything.
“They know not that they are offensive or hurtful, because that is not their intent.”
That it isn’t their intent is really no excuse for being offensive or hurtful. Doesn’t fly anymore.
The intent isn’t the point. What is important is the message received by your listener. There are far too many people walking around that have been wounded by those whose intent was “Christian”, but whose actions were anything but.
So, when I tell people I don’t want children (whether they are inside or outside the church) I expect them to respect my choice and my decision and refrain from trying to convert me to their ideas.. whether with the Bible, the “mummy mafia”, or any other argument , it is really as simple as that.
@childless, married christian
These are your words: “But, now, I’m feeling terrilby guilty as if I am withholding something from my spouse. This is very difficult. Add the pressures from most of my friends and family - primarily my church family…I do feel like a failure, a selfish & abnormal person.”
Mine are: “make a different choice. Recognize that we humans are not controlled by our emotions we create them between our ears and we can change them. Moreover, if we don’t change the ones that allow our free will to function we become dis-eased.”
IMO the others responding to you in this thread have spoken with wisdom and maturity gained from experience. I stand with them.
The key question here is not about whether or not you want to have children, you don’t. The key question is why are you unable to discern that when your church family sends you off to consider why you don’t want children that they are indeed counting on your guilt complex to function to bring you into line. It is not any god that is speaking to you inside your “self” the dialogue is your own and it’s a conflict bewteen the function fo free will and inculcated feelings of guilt - conditioned response.
So let’s begin at the beginning by recognizing in a straight forward and mature way that Christianity is a guilt based religion. If one does not agree to feel guilty that God, in the person of his “son” Jesus (the self embodiment of God himself) died for their sins then one could obviously not become a true believer.
Agreeing to come under the conviction of the Holy Spirit is agreeing to come in line with the operation of a conscience operating within the confines of a guilt based religion. It’s an agreement to develop Christian conditioned responses and to think, feel and act in accord with them.
IMO what you should be pondering is why you are drawn to remain in a guilt based religion at all if not from conditioned response.
It is my very strongly held opinion that at your very core you know the issue is not “to have or not to have children”.
(1) What spiritual health and enlightment can you evolve from believing in the Biblical claim that Adam was created from dirt, that Eve was created from a rib bone, and that the entire human race sprang from their union?
Surely you cannot accept this ancient simplistic claim at an intellectual level, can you?
(2) What spiritual health and enlightenment can you evolve from believing you and every other person on the planet was “guilty” of “original sin” at birth?
Surely you do accept personal responsibility for your own thoughts, decisions and actions, don’t you. If you didn’t then you wouln’t be pondering this issue at all.
(3) What spirtual fulfilment can there be in you condescending to produce yet another sinner solely for the purpose of sucking up to God, so he or she can overcome an “original sin” birth, and lead a conditioned Christian life, confined by the parameters of guilt and conformity, in order to possess everlasting life and rise with the chosen few to live in heaven with God (Jesus)?
I am an apostate christian who was raised and fully educated in the faith - a bible school graduate. I came to my senses, rejected the shameful yoke of guilt created in ancient times to control simple-minded uneducated folks. I cast of the chains of conformity and conditioned response. I set myself free to find wisdom in the spiritual teachings of all faiths and to walk my own path recognizing that I am fully responsible for my own thoughts, words and acts. I challenge you to have the courage to do likewise.
” Do not believe anything because it is said by an authority, or if it is said to come from angels, or from Gods, or from an inspired source. Believe it only if you have explored it in your own heart and mind and body and found it to be true. Work out your own path, through diligence.” - Gautama Buddha
This went from an…Is It anti-christian to not want children blog, to an anti-Christianity blog for some. I’m Just soul searching and trying to find answers for MY LIFE in regards to ME having children (at one point I wanted 5 kids…then none and now I’m confused and my rock is God…so searching the bible for answers and being in community discussing this with others is natural and comfortalbe…FOR ME). Actually, participating in this type of forum, which I have never done before, has really grounded me in my faith even more, given me an even deeper belief in God/Jesus/Holy Spirit! So, thanks everyone! It was not my intention to preach, at all…not at all. I guess that came out naturally from my heart. I was writing my thoughts…my beliefs…journaling…purging my thoughts…speaking my mind…not using this as a forum to preach or hurt anyone’s feelings. I guess when we all feel so passionate about something…it can come accross as preaching.
As for time thief…now…that…is preaching! Amen, people? My relationship with God is surly not one based on how guilty I feel or how guilty I’m made to feel by others; nor is that the basis for Christianity AS I BELIEVE! Guilt in an emotion that I know is a waste of energy IF it’s something you really shouldn’t feel guilty about! And feeling guilty over not knowing if I really want kids or not 100% for sure…well…I shouldn’t feel guilty of it…I am guilty of feeling guilty!
It’s bad energy! I know! (now, if you cut somone off in traffic for no reason and you don’t feel a little pang of guilt for being an idiot on the road…well…you’ve got issues…so Guilt can be a barometer of the soul, if you will.) It’s up there with worry….but sometimes…I just feel those emotions….but it’s really more about my insecurities than anything else. No one can MAKE me feel any emotion, but at times, I give them permission to feel what they are trying so hard to get me to feel..but it’s all about my choice, right? …My free will to feel certain ways.
Time-Thief, Clearly you and I have 2 different belief systems and I didn’t get on this blog to help others become born again Christians an Preach the Good News. So to counter comment your beliefs; is really not something I got on this blog to do. You went to bible school…and have great faith and life experiences with your walk with many gods & many faiths…you have set yourself free…. assuming that you are right…and the bible was written to “control simple-minded uneducated folks”, and that the whole premiss of believing in one God is based on guilt, then aren’t you, in fact instilling your guilt upon me? Listen to the condescending tone of your response….your tone in parts of your entry…here’s what I heard…”you can’t really believe this and that, can you?..how simple-minded and uneducated are you?….I have set myself free and I challenge you to have the courage to do likewise.” So, aren’t you trying to guilt me into feeling free, courageous, educated, & not simple minded…like YOU…by following your belief system? Huh? I can only imagine your intent. I’m not here to facilitate an apologetics 101 debate forum and neither is Britgirl; and I respect that!! What’s fascinating is that you think their is a difference between a Christian who wants you to believe that Jesus is the only way, the truth and the light and no man comes to The Father,except through Jesus, and a person who asks you to open yourself and free yourself and give yourself the choice to believe in what feels good and right and best and comortable to you, or you’re a simple-minded, uneducated, not courageous person, like you!? They both sound a bit “guilty” of the guilt card. Pushing beliefs on a person and asking them to try to be courageous to do likewise…well….sounds a bit like someone is trying to make someone feel guilty or stupid/uneducated/not courageous/simple-minded… if they don’t follow your belief systesm…well…that’s not your intent, right?! As Britgirl said…”That it isn’t their intent is really no excuse for being offensive or hurtful. Doesn’t fly anymore. The intent isn’t the point. What is important is the message received by your listener.” So, I’ll just leave any additional thougths and beliefs I HAVE to your blog to my “simple-minded undeducated” self. (ouch).
Interesting & eye opening thoughts on exercising free will britgirl…there is a verse that says…”you can make your plans, but the Lord will direct your path”…that popped in my head as I was reading your response! So if I choose to not have kids…I BELIEVE God’s gonna direct me along the path of my life anyway…and I know my salvation does not rest in me having children or not…THANK GOD. I agree…when I exercise my free will for my life…then I can trust that God will direct the path I walk on, regardless of what I choose. That is actually very enlightening to me and comforting. Thank you for unknowingly reminding me of that biblical truth! I can choose to not have kids…and at the end of the day…God’s gonna direct my path! phew! What a relief! This verse coming to mine was worth my blog journey with you all alone!!
Thanks again everyone for your time and thoughts. It’s great to live in this part of the world, in this day and age where we can all speak our thoughts to one another. We don’t all have to agree, or be on the same page…but we can still share and be open and authentic. Very cool.
Peace….
The “Holy Scriptures” were written in simpler times when education of the day (obtained in the temple and available only to Jewish men) did not encompass such topics preventing pregnancy. And if the recorded history is not in error then barren women within that patriarcal structure were treated as though they had no value because their primary role was to produce heirs, most particularly, sons.
As the collection of writings that were brought together to form the Bible centuries after they were written do not contemplate pregnancy as being a choice, it boggles the mind to hear that anyone in her right mind would seek an answer to the question posed in that volume of books. But the “news” that the answer is “blind faith” is the answer to everything was not surprising, was it?
The result of a Christian education and conditioning leads to “belief based on blind faith”. Belief or blind faith is the answer to all questions who most frequently point at the book of Romans as their authority.
In fact, Christian fundamentalists adhere to 9 points of doctrine:
(1) the inspiration (God-breathed) and inerrancy (lack of error) of holy scripture;
(2) the tri-unity or trinity;
(3) the diety and virgin birth of the Lord Jesus Christ;
(4) the literal fall of humanity into sinfulness;
(5) the substitutionary atonement of Christ for the sins of believing sinners;
(6) the bodily resurrection and ascencion of Christ;
(7) the regeneration of believing sinners;
(8) the personal and imminent return of Christ, and
(9) the bodily resurrection and assignment of all people to either eternal blessedness or eternal punishment (a determination solely based on blind faith or lack thereof).
I don’t consider the repeated outpourings of indoctrination from childLESS marreied christian to be “authentic” communication. IMO we have simply experienced yet another Christian babbling forth the doctrine of blind faith, while upholding a pretense that she was not evangelizing, when she most assuredly was.
“As the collection of writings that were brought together to form the Bible centuries after they were written do not contemplate pregnancy as being a choice, it boggles the mind to hear that anyone in her right mind would seek an answer to the question posed in that volume of books”.
I agree with this. CMC - if you are really soul-searching, you need to be looking elsewhere - you won’t find your answers you want on this topic at least in the Bible. But I think you know that already.
“Pushing beliefs on a person and asking them to try to be courageous to do likewise…well….sounds a bit like someone is trying to make someone feel guilty or stupid/uneducated/not courageous/simple-minded… if they don’t follow your belief systesm…well…that’s not your intent, right?!”
I didn’t get that TT was pushing her beliefs on anyone, nor making them feel guilty. On the contrary. In the first place, NO ONE can make you feel guilty unless you allow them to. Secondly, it’s clear from your first post that you have already assumed plenty of guilt because you don’t want children and you know very well that goes against the doctrine you want to adhere to.
And lastly, the reference to simple uneducated folks was about the people who lived in earlier times - as was pointed out - and not directed at you.
“I guess when we all feel so passionate about something…it can come accross as preaching”
In your case, it didn’t “come across as preaching” - it WAS preaching, however much it is woven in. We all feel passionately about things. You can see that from commentors who posted before you did. But there is a very clear difference between being passionate about something and preaching - or rather evangelizing - and I know that you know exactly what the difference is.
AMEN
Do not go on this blog if you can’t reiterate what everyone is saying and feeling. If you are trying to figure out if you should have kids or not have kids and you call yourself or think of yourself of any type of a Christian…you will seriously get beat up on this blog. Unless you don’t want kids 100%, agree that most, if not all Christian people in general are judgemental, and you are not really soul searching for your own purposes…then this is the perfect blog for you!!!!
Do not go on this blog to find answers for yourself on the subject matter of “Childfree? It’s Anti-Christian Not To Want Children”…which is the title of this blog remember…so if you are trying to find personal answers…PLEASE, PLEASE…GO SOMEWHERE ELSE…unless you totally agree with eveyrone on it…then you’ll fit right in and feel really good about yourself! Free Speech as long as it’s free from any belief system outside of what this very small group of 2-3 people are discussing! Don’t work through your own crap on this blog…or you will be chewed up and spit out!
If you want to feel pushed out, not accepted, told you went on this blog with an agenda that you NEVER had…then feel free to participate.
You know…I get it…it’s pay back time…all on me…for all your bad experiences from the way you described feeling at church by being treated so judgementally from Christians, not acting very Christian…who judged you about what to believe in and how to feel and how to live…I get it…I believe your Christian Church treated you that way! I see it all the time! Christian people acting holier than though, judging, playing the guilt card….pushing you out if you don’t have the exact life as they all live! You are right…it happens all the time in many, many churches! Guess what…you all did the same thing to me here on this blog. I feel EXACTLY LIKE THAT. I’m so frustrated with being different and actually thinking the title of this blog was exactly what I was trying to figure out…FOR ME…FOR MY LIFE…AS A CHRISTIAN WOMAN! So…you win…I feel beaten down, feel misunderstood, feel like you all think I’m here to preach AND you all probably think I have a house full of kids! Think what you want! I really don’t care. I don’t care about what you all believe in! I guess as a Christian…I should…but I really don’t…FREE WILL. I don’t just feel guilty from people in my church. I have a gay couple who lives in my building. We were at a party and they asked…so when are you two going to have kids. I said…I’m not sure I want any. The gay couple said….THAT IS SO STRANGE! THAT’S VERY UNUSUAL TO HEAR…YOU DON’T WANT KIDS?…WHY DID YOU GET MARRIED??? I stepped back, laughed…not ha ha funny laugh…but a I’m a little pissed that I’m NOW being judged by a gay couple. So, being my sassy, piss and vinager self, I put my hand on one of the gay guys shoulders and said…”you know…now YOU would make a great husband to a woman. You’d be such a great father and husband…it’s so strange that you want to be in a relationship with a man” as I looked square in his partners eyes. Well…did the tables change. I had to explain to them that to feel judged by 2 gay men who are in a relationship together who tell me how strange it is that I don’t have that maternal urge…explain to them that how they feel judged for being gay and not liking that feeling is the same feeling as being married and hearing how strange it is to not want kids!!!! THey were like…oh…good point! I love those 2 guys…and I do not judge them…they are my friends. For the first time…they opened their ears and heard themselves…they apologized and were even in shock and embarrased of themselves…a life long battle of being mistreated for being gay and being treated differently/judged…and hating it…and then coming around and doing the same thing to me in one little comment at a party! They were embarrased and shocked in themselves! I felt better after I put them on the spot and they did too! They were totally blind thinking that their comment wouldn’t hurt my feelings or make me feel judged! Clueless!!!! So…it happens in church, out of church…on this blog right now by all of you!!!!
Evangelizing was and is not my freaking goal on this blog!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! do what you want…I had no idea I was going to be judged even more here…I thought this was a safe place to be anonymous and try and work through my crap in my life….I get it…you all win….Good job. Women power…bond together to knock anyone down who doesn’t practice redundancy of you all….keep on repeating the same crap over and over to make yourselves feel better…God forbid someone come on and have their their own personal thoughts/beliefes…if you do…get ready to be beaten up! Good luck!
No where in the bible does it command every woman to have children…got it.
It’s ok to be a Christian and not have kids….got it.
Some of you have felt the same way I feel right now in church. I believe it! Sad, but true…very, very, very sad…but true. I think that sucks…I think Christians can be the worst…they set out to be the best and end up being all self-righteous and thinking they are being so “God-Honoring” and they fumble every second of every day making others feel not worthy…but NOT EVERY SINGLE CHRISTIAN PERSON IS LIKE THIS. but, alot are…GUESS WHAT LADIES….YOU ARE ALL LIKE THIS TO ME ON THIS BLOG…you hated being treated by people in this same way…and now you are turning the tables and doing it to me…I agree….It feels like crap…I feel like crap now. you can all cheer…”yippee…we pissed off another one of those christians…get off our blog you idiotic, judgemental christian…yea…you suck and your stupid dumb beliefs…get out and stay out” I hear you loud and clear! I’m out…the “christian” is leaving your blog…YIPPEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Thanks everyone…I feel…beaten up pretty badly for not coming on to just agree with everyone…and feel like you all think I came on for one purpose…to preach & evangelize…oh yea…that was my sole goal and I couldn’t “save any of you”…boo hoo…whatever…It’s pathetic that you think that was my goal…It so pisses me off to feel so judged and told I know exactly what I was doing…”another one of those blind faith people on our turf”……well…all I can say is…I guess I know how you all felt in your churches…sorry it happens….happened and happened to me here. You must ALL feel soOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much better to use me as your punching bag ganging up on me…really believing my agenda was to preach! Excellent…yea…that was the goal…and I’m really a man…no, better…a pastor of a church trying to reach all you lost souls…searching for blogs to preach the good news! I can only imagine who you think I am and what you think my REAL agenda is.
I’m a preaching evangelist…great…thanks alot…thanks for all the support for just being myself and trying to work through some of my crap before I turn 40 and regret having kids or not….excellent. This is just so encouraging! thanks alot everyone…I’m now one of those “pissed off christians”…..that’s great…thanks….really. thanks a lot for making sure to knock me down to make youselves feel better and powerful and all-knowing. nice….so glad I did a google search on “is it wrong to be a christian and not have kids”….I know my answer now…thanks. you all have so much tact! your mothers would be so proud of you.
‘…get seriously beat up…”? Really? Sorry, but I felt I had to say that all I can take away from the comments are objective, helpful thoughts and suggestions.
So you feel “seriously beat up” do you? You feel “judged” do you? And after that torrent of crap (to use your excellently chosen word) I guess you feel so much lighter in spirit too.
If objective comments and opinions such as the ones that were made and given make you decide you want to feel that way may I suggest some professional counselling? It sounds as if that would benefit you far more than this blog. Good luck with the… soul searching.
@britgirl
IMO cmc’s comments stand on your blog as a record of a needy person desperately trying to manipulate others, most recently, by assuming a false victim stance, to provide what she thinks she needs. I find this situation to be very painful to witness because I believe cmc is looking in all the wrong places for all the wrong things.
Clearly the matter of choosing whether or not to conceive and raise children is an intimate matter for discussion between wife and husband. Hence the discussion one would enter on a blog ought to follow the making of the decision and reveal only the reasoning for the decision that has been made.
So what can we conclude about cmc stating she was searching the internet looking for someone else’s blog “to sort through her personal crap in”?
What can we conclude about a person who expects readers to offer her support while she raves about her religion, when we know it is silent on the question being posed?
What can we conclude about cmc ultimately producing “blind faith” as her Christian justification, like pulling a rabbit from a hat?
CMC used your blog as a pulpit and as an emotional dumping ground. She has dodged responding to any of the many points that were raised. She has been unable to communicate with readers who respectfully disagreed with her points of view and did not offer the support she expected from them. Now, ironically, she is casting your readers and yourself as ganging up on her, punching her and rejecting her, when in fact we have been long suffering, while she has verbally assaulted us over and over again.
I conclude that cmc’s comments do not appear to be the products of a balanced person grounded in her faith as she professes. I strongly believe they are a cry for professional help so I thank you for having the courage to suggest that to her. I sincerely hope cmc sets aside her current approach to “soul searching” and instead directs her energy to developing some insight into the operation of her own psyche.
Thank you for the patience and kindness you have exhibited as our blog hostess. All things must come to an end and I’d like to suggest that you consider closing the comments on this post.
Sincerely, tt
@TT - thank you. Thoughtful and eloquent as always.