19 03 2009
carmen (13:59:54) :

Just sounds to me like you people that have decided to live “child-free” undergo IVF treatments have too much time on your hands to sit around and judge other people. Maybe you should take some of that time and go do something that benefits the people around you instead of putting them down trying to perpetuate your own DNA to try and make yourself feel better about the choices you have made.

There, I think that’s what you really meant to say.

-Mini

But what do I know? I’ve never wanted children, and can’t, as a rule, be bothered with them.

Ironically enough, I’ve been the ‘den mother’ of sorts to homeless teens at the local LBGT center. Most of these kids didn’t know me from Adam, but considered me a parent figure. I have no idea why, but there it is.

If you don’t like what’s said here, hit the red x on the top right corner of the screen.

I swear I will faint with shock if a troll ever came up with something original to say. . .

Secondly, it’s all well and good to say that “it’s in [G]od’s hands” when a woman is carrying 5-8 fetuses and won’t do selective reduction in order to have the best chance of having healthy children, but it’s not okay to say “it’s in [G]od’s hands” before the IVF treatments are begun.

Thirdly, as for the ‘must have our own instead of adopt’ because of the whole ‘shared experience’ thing…eh. The adoption process, with all its ups and downs, is also an experience the couple can share. One of the coolest things I’ve done in my employment was to pick an infant up at the hospital and take him to his new home with the couple adopting him. To say that the experience of adopting a child is less ‘bonding’, whether between the parents and/or the parents and the child, I think is a slap in the face to all those people who have adopted.

if it has a genetic component, then all thats being done is increasing the problems for the next generation. as has been shown in many studies, infertility is increasing.

Now take animal populations, when they grow too big they inbreed, they have infertility problems, and more wars, and more diseases occur. Look at the world today. You bring up the point that having a bad heart is the same as IVF, It is upto a point. BUT the human form is only supposed to live to a certain age, thats nature. and the human body fails. thats nature too. NOW, theres darwinism, survival of the fittest. in terms of genetics, people with genetic infertility or problems that stop them from having children, the genepool would soon have none of those contraindicated disorders. (now before people accuse me of eugenic constructs I beleive its NATURE that decides)

So eventually there will be less, infertility as the genes expressing it will die out (but there are mutations so there will be a smaller population). But wouldnt that be better.

People forget that we as humans are part of evolution. IVF is Tempting fate/nature/god. Or Susan do you want everyone to have IVF? and so by increasing the powers of the ivf industry.

I don’t hear anyone saying anything about “nature” or “Gods” intention for someone to be ill, or to die due to their problem…or even that they should just deal with it, live with it, get over it….and are “by-passing” mother nature by getting treatment (let alone any talk about say a heart transplant survivor who mother natured supposedly didn’t intend to live passing on their dna to offspring)…

But if your problem relates to your reproductive organs, well then it is “meant to be” and you should live with it…it is for a “reason”, “mother nature” is “telling you something”…etc…and treating that would be “playing God”.

Choosing to use medical treatment is about more that just “DNA”. It is also about experiencing a pregnancy, childbirth and the shared experience with your partner…and about experiencing something that is a normal part of life for most people (and that doesn’t mean it is therefore “abnormal” to choose not to have children or have no desire to). There is nothing wrong or selfish with having the desire, even if you need medical treatment to do so.

And lastly, yes, there are some increased risks for IVF children. But the overall risks are still very low. There are risks in ALL pregnancies, so no one goes into it “risk free”. And one can reduce the risks of multiples by transferring less embryos…something that is more common when IVF is funded like other health care treatments and the cost of medical treatment is not overwhelming for individuals. Infertility is a disease. It should be treated like one.

It just occurred to me by reading the comments on that site how these people are so full of themselves they cannot POSSIBLY conceive that their DNA is simply not “good enough.” Inspite of doctors saying there’s nothing wrong with them, perhaps maybe there is and that’s why they’re not getting pregnant.

I asked my boyfriend last night if his sister and her husband were still trying to conceive. I know that last year they were going through IVF treatments. He is assuming that they are still trying to have a baby. When I think of them, I think of these articles about IVF.

This should be interesting.

The father of a recent outcome of IVF, triplets, was on the news here recently. The parents said they’d need 10,000 diapers a year for the new additions. That’s a good bit of landfill there. Of course, they weren’t expecting triplets, but they took the risk. And here’s a link that mercurior found recently – you should read it. It’s to CFSince6′s point…passing on bad genes and diseases. My only regret is that my tax dollars, where IVF is subsidized, are being used to support something so unecessary.

If people want to bankrupt themselves in search of their own flesh and blood they won’t get any sympathy from me.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/15/nivf115.xml

So what you’re saying is that you have some medical condition that causes you to be in severe pain. But, if you’re pregnant, that severe pain goes away.

You were also unable to conceive. But, you were able to get pregnant through IVF.

So what you’re telling us is that since being pregnant causes your severe pain to go away, you went and got pregnant so the pain goes away? Essentially, you USED YOUR BABY to help ease your suffering?

How selfish is that?

Further, you’re saying that it only cost you $5k because you’re in the military? Great! But what you’re not saying is that it is the tax payers who picked up the costs for your IVF treatments. Don’t forget, your husband’s benefits and salary are being paid by the regular civilian tax payers. Those people you military people like to put down in saying that we don’t have the “courage” to put our lives on the line to be in the military.

Maybe not, or maybe yes, but if it weren’t for us, you wouldn’t have a paycheck. Where do you think the money comes from to pay for military expenses? The government? Hello! We ARE the government (in the U.S.) and we’re taxed!

Thirdly, I’ll need to find the article I had read, but there is an increasing number of birth defects showing up – all due to the increase of IVF treatments and women getting pregnant by IVF. There’s a BIOLOGICAL and “Mother Nature” REASON you can’t get pregnant: that’s because you’re NOT SUPPOSED TO. i.e. By using IVF to get pregnant, women are bypassing Mother Nature’s way of cleaning out the gene pool by forcing pregnancy.

The backlash to that is a rising number of birth defects, deformities, and other medical and health issues.

Way to go for supporting the continuance of bad genes!

Thats the point we didnt think twice about it. Is your DNA so much superior that you couldnt adopt, or be childfree.

And your deluded in thinking that a lot of insurance pay for b/c and abortions, and tubals. Most childfree have to PAY beyond.

If you cant afford to have children, then why have them, why spend 22K, when you dont need too. why go into debt, But the baby is all isnt it.

if you have a child “god” provides. Did you ever consider that maybe not having children was a way to go. I bet not.

And your comment about walking a day in their shoes, try walking a day in ours, try being childfree, the peace. But No your DNA is superior.

And btw whats the medical condition, you never name it.

the problem is they are blind to the possible negative outcomes, some due to the societal pressure, some are unable to think that a person without a child is somehow defective, that we are only on the look out for ourselves, when in actually a lot of childfree think about the child coming into the world, and decide its not worth having a child, in todays world.

mummy24 is a classic example of this kind of thinking, she has combined my dna is better and i wont suffer from any problems, and neither will my children. but when you give facts and truth to them, they start to insult you, telling you that you are wrong,

Second – I suggest you actually read the article – slowly this time – and get your facts right. I say this because almost everything you mention are things that I haven’t said. And you missed the entire point of the article.

Your reasons for not adopting children:
“in regards to adoption, these children come from under priveliged places filled with desease and more often or not these children are not well and have many things to overcome, whether it be health, culture, communication etc it is not right to take a child away from its whole culture and community and then try to dress them up and make them part of your own culture and community – that is selfish. A child who is adopted has many emotional issues, its not that easy and you dont have an istant brady bunch family.”

is an interesting perspective.

According to you, because these (adopted) children are so “filled with disease, not well many things to overcome, underpriviliged etc they are not worthy of adoption, of love or of anything else a child deserves? And of course a child with of your own DNA is far more worthy – because they have none of these problems. I doubt that people who have adopted, or adopted children themselves would agree with you.

That is a pretty lame reason for not adopting instead of chasing one’s own dna in the form of a child.

And yet you say that those who do adopt are being selfish….

People will continue multiple ivf treatments, with multiple embryos despite the risk to the children, bankrupt themselves in an effort to fulfill a want or need for a child, or perhaps their need for their own DNA, while if it was a child they wanted to love, rather than to fulfill their own need for a child-but-with-their-own-dna, well we at least can see that there is a lot of selfishness there. Some things just aren’t meant to be. No matter how much you rant and rave.