I truly believe there should be no other determining factors. That is the only unselfish reason to give birth.

Franky - maybe so. Problem is, the VAST majority of kids are not made or born for this “unselfish” reason as you called it, and there are way too many kids in the world who are living truly miserable lives. Why not help them instead, since they’re already here? That’s how I see things anyway.

I, myself am struggling with the decision to have, or not to have children when I’m ready. Reading through all of these posts, I found it quite unsettling that no one attempted to nail the reasons why one SHOULD have kids.

Plain and simple, Life, the process of life, and everything that life itself entails, is amazing. Think about it. Without life there would be nothing. Just an empty void of dust. I truly believe that people should decide to have children FOR THE CHILDREN, as a favor TO the children themselves. IF one should decide they want a child, it should be only based on the fact that they want to give him/her the opportunity to experience this thing we call “life”. It should be considered a gift!

Granted, this world is pretty messed up right now, but I feel the only reason someone should have kids is because they WANT to TEACH them about life and all it’s phenomenons. They should be wanting to do their kid/s a favor by letting them simply live.

I truly believe there should be no other determining factors. That is the only unselfish reason to give birth. If everyone thought of it that way, then this overpopulation issue has potential to be solved. Of course, we’d have to realize that we should only be teaching one or two kids in a lifespan. haha And I think that is where the main issue lies to begin with. But, I digress..

If this thing is still active, shoot a reply!

–Franky

My son is 19 now, he has always lived with his dad but I have always seen him on a regular basis. We get on well and I like him, but to this day I do not love him as I feel a mother should. I have never told him of my lack of love now, and never would.

All I can say is, if you don’t want children then don’t let anyone or anything make you have them, because you may not be “alright when you’ve had it” love doesn’t automatically come after you have given birth, if ever, and you’ll just be setting yourself up for years of heartache, regret and, the worst of all, guilt.

The joy of democracy is that generally, people look out for people. So you contribute in school taxes that you’ll never use, childrens programs that you’ll never attend, medical research that you’ll never benefit from. In return, the people who benefit from these things get to look after you. This is how it works. Individually we might not agree, but that’s not the point.

In the meantime, you could point out to someone that your choice to not have kids means more for you, sure. It also means more for them, and more for their kids. Only so many resources to go around, and the less people clamouring to use them, the better. You’re doing this guy a favour. I doubt he’ll ever see it that way, but each to their own.

What an ass. Other posters are right … it must be sad to feel so threatened by the choices of others.

I do have to wonder if the man who came out with the comment was inwardly seething with resentment at M’s freedom and general contentedness with her lifestyle. What he’s basically saying is that all childless (not just childfree) people are worthless. Should all infertile people be banished from the planet then? Is a bad parent of thirteen children genuinely contributing more to society than a childfree man or woman who pays taxes, works in a responsible job and is fully engaged in the life of his or her community?

I’m VERY happy with my childfree life as a teacher. I know my students benefit from the classes and that this is the role in life where I can do most good. We don’t all have to contribute to the world in the same way, as long as we give what we are able to, freely and willingly.

From what I’ve seen, a parent who freaks out and foams at the mouth at the very idea that others might not want to have children has some issues. Their little reality is completely threatened by the fact that someone else is living differently. Down inside, they may be trying really, really hard to convince themselves that their way of living makes sense and is somehow selfless and magical. If they were truly confident about their role as parents, why would they need to berate the childless or childfree?

This works both ways, of course. When childfree people go out of their way to attack parents/children/families/parenting, they look the same way: like someone who doesn’t feel like their own life choices are legitimate, so they have to lash out viciously.

When I’ve gotten shit for being childfree by choice (which is how I spent most of my life), when people like this numbwit you describe suggest that having children is the only way to contribute to society, I wonder: what the hell do assholes like this say to infertile men and women???? “You are physically incapable of giving birth, therefore you are selfish”???

Also, we have to assume that childlessness is of evolutionary value to our species. Voluntary and involuntary childless and childfree people have been part of our society forever.

Sue me if I think this trumps the hell out of Mr. Self-Righteous and his two kids. If he’s like a lot of men, he did not do his fifty per cent share of raising them anyway, but left most of that work up to his wife.

Don’t let him get you down, M. Apparently family is literally all this guy has going for him. And that’s sad for him, not you.

“The childfree community is very misunderstood.”

This is why we blog.

It was nice to read all these comments, the show of support. I have always avoided forums, the risks and rewards are greater perhaps in a public debate. Forums feel safer.

Thanks for telling M’s story here. There’s a lesson in it for all who read it.

If humans had truly bought into “the only thing that matters is family” thinking we’d all be living in caves. There would be no public education and health care systems and no day care centers. There would be no Big Brothers and Big Sisters organizations. There would be no Boys and Girls Clubs or Scouts and Guides, nor would there be any of the countless other organizations for children like 4H that currently rely on the man and woman power provided by many childfree administrators and workers.

Through these organizations and throughout the course of our marriage Beloved and I have freely invested our time, energy and money into parenting many children who didn’t get what they needed at home. In fact we have invested in 3 of your children and I hear that although your new girlfriend is nearly 40 you apparently have another one on the way.

The “fuckwit” gulped like a beached goldfish for a few minutes and then he and his common-law wife left the party.

As for anyone else who spouts such nonsense, they’re not worth having a conversation with. They can’t put back the kids they had, and they can’t change your life.

i am half joking. but only half.

Sinead - welcome! Hopefully the existence of the conversations on Like It Is will let me people know that we very much exist. And we aren’t going away, so people had better learn to live with us being around. It is amazing that our society considers itself so tolerant, yet is so intolerant and insensitive to those who deliberately choose not to have kids - and it doesn’t even affect them.

As you say, we should not have to justify ourselves to anyone. We are the ones who get to say how we live our lives - not those with kids!

I was asked last year by a friend (who has a kid) when my husband and I would conceive. I said very calmly (as usual) that we did not want any kids. She said : don’t you say something like that!!” as she was shocked. I wonder who was shocked after what she said!!!???
I have explained that just like some people have the desire to have kids, we have the desire not to have any! When you ask a person: why did you have kids? Some answer silly stuff that I will not mention, but some say: “because I felt the need and the desire in my gut!” Well, me Sinead and hubby, don’t have that desire and need in our gut!!!!!!!!
We just don’t have the urge.

The childfree community is very misunderstood and we need to make people sensible to the fact that we exist. They have to deal with it. We shouldn’t have to justify ourselves, they should just accept us the way we are, just like we accept them!

I was on a very nice new website yesterday: bigkidsnokids.com, and the moderator has a very nice quote that seems to be her motto: “The test of courage comes when we are in the minority. The test of tolerance comes when we are in the majority.” That’s a very nice quote that sums up exactly what we should do: start an awareness campaign just “like” the gay community did. People don’t understand what they don’t know!

Sinead

M’s experience with that shithead (excuse my french) proves that the message will not get across as easily as it may seem, but it’s worth trying! If I wanted and had kids, I would like them to be tolerant!

I just fail to understand what kind of a society we have.Anybody who tries to do something out of the ordinary gets thrashed, even if something they are trying to do does make sense. But no, we can’t think can we? We can just blindly follow the rules of the society that have been going on since eternity. Everything needs to be updated to be successful, whether it be a blog, a country’s constitution or the thinking of the people.

This is one of the lamest things I’ve ever heard. If having children was the only way someone could contribute to the society, then the best people should be Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden, whoever knows how many kids they have? What is the logic of giving birth to a child when you can’t even survive as a family of two? That way you’re making life hell for the kid as well as yourself. You know, here in India, people think that giving birth to kids is good because that ways there can be more earning members in the family and so there..you have families with 11 kids and then the parents force them to work in furnaces when they’re like 10 years old. What’s the logic of all that?

I agree with whatever you said M but it’s just that sometimes, you should care for the parents, but again that’s if they helped you live a life when you were young because frankly, it isn’t easy raising a kid and parents do have to work hard to take care of you and change your diapers so expecting you to take care of them when they’re old is justified to some extent. And in almost all cases, they don’t need you to be stuck them but all they want is that you should love them, visit them sometimes and show them they’re wanted. But yea, in some cases when they start getting nosy and start interfering, it does tend to become difficult.