“My Husband Doesn’t Want Any More Children And I Do”
14 05 2007“My husband tells me today that he made an appt. to get a vasectomy because he doesn’t want anymore children. We have two wonderful sons that we both adore more then life itself but I have always dreamed of having a daughter since I was a little girl. I wanted to keep trying for her..”
I came across an interesting forum thread through following a Google search term used to find Like It Is. I thought that it made an interesting read coming shortly after my article
Men, Vasectomies and the Childfree Choice. This article isn’t so much about childfree men as much as men who don’t want any more kids and are having vasectomies to ensure they don’t make any more additions to the world.
Tip – I’ve provided excerpts, but you need to read the responses in the thread. (I have also left the excerpts exactly as is in terms of spelling etc.)
My husband doesn’t want any more children and I do
Reading both the original poster’s question and the responses I was amazed. Amazed at the utter selfishness on the part of most of the responders in the thread. I wondered if this was a typical or unusual scenario. And I felt dead sorry for the men. At least a vasectomy is an option. Although if a resentful wife or partner has to sign the papers, their chances might be less than optimal. I wouldn’t want to be in their shoes.
Here’s the text of the forum question. I thought, given my article on men and vasectomies, this was a very interesting find.
“My husband tells me today that he made an appt. to get a vasectomy because he doesn’t want anymore children. We have two wonderful sons that we both adore more then life itself but I have always dreamed of having a daughter since I was a little girl. I wanted to keep trying for her. I have a great relationship with my Mom she is my best friend and I wanted to have that relationship with a daughter of my own one day. Am I being selfish for getting angry at him for not wanting to try for a daughter? please help, I’m so confused!!”
Now, read the responses. If you can do so without feeling as disgusted as I did. I wondered why these couples were even together, since communication or consideration seemed to be in critically short supply and one-way at best and in only one direction.
One key thing jumped out at me was that in almost all the cases the women already had children but wanted more. Some had boys and wanted to hold out for a girl. One had three boys but wanted a 4th. The men not only did not want more children, but had, in some cases gone along with having the first few children despite their reluctance and misgivings. Seems all the women wanted to do was keep breeding regardless of whether the men wanted to or not.
How about this?
“I have been with a man for 9 years and we have 3 boys. I really wanted to have a 4th child but i had the desicion forced on me!! I asked him only one more time before he went for his appointment and you know what he said the me?? ” I dont give a F*** i dont want anymore brats running around the house. So F*** off” My heart sank. I REALLY want another child. I have always wanted to have 4 since i was a child. So to be told that i was so hurt.”
I don’t think he could have put it any more plainly. Yet it seems the message still wasn’t getting through… after all isn’t “wanting 4 kids since you were a child” enough reason to keep breeding them? Apparently so.
And from Yapper:
“…My friends and family and all having children and the more they have make more even more desperate and more unhappy at the thought of not having a child. I truly thought I loved my husband enough to fulfil my heart, I hate saying this but he doesn’t. So I spend a little from time to time on clothes, etc etc etc and going out, but I stay in night in and night out with my husband and if I have a baby I am sure this would change my whole outlook on life.”
Right. A baby will change her pathetic outlook on life. Somehow I doubt it. Perhaps her first step should be getting a life.
Shannon – wants more children and while her husband is quite content with the one they already have:
“…I feel so much resentment towards my husband and I don’t know how to handle it. He doesn’t want to talk about it any more, he made is desicion and if I bring it up he gets mad. I love my husband very much but lately I almost hate him for the way he has made me feel. He says that I don’t have a good reason for wanting another baby and that I am being selfish. I don’t want to make him have a baby he doesn’t want because that wouldn’t be fair to the baby.
I wonder what part of “ I don’t want another child” is so hard to understand. She’s almost hating her husband because he doesn’t want more kids. Yet, she says she doesn’t want to make him have a baby because it wouldn’t be fair to it. So, I suppose what she wants for him to miraculously want more kids…guess she’d be happy then.
The view from a guy – Orwell:
“…just wanted to add: I am super involved in both my daughter’s lives. I’m the one who gets up with them every morning at six, makes their breakfasts, drives them to school, etc. My wife still has insomnia and hip/back problems from the second child (who is 2 1/2). Every pregnancy has been hard and the recovery for my wife afterwards has been grueling. Our second daughter only slept in 1-2 hour bursts from the time she was 4 months to 2 years old. We were emotionally and physically exhausted every single day. I went into a deep depression after my second daughter was born. My wife still resents me for that (even though I got up every day and took care of the kids, did my work, worked on the house, volunteered at church, etc.) She had to live under a dark cloud of my depression.
“But part of the depression was triggered by the fact that RIGHT after the birth of our second child, she immediately started talking about having a third one! (One way or the other, I am getting a vasectomy.) I feel trapped in an endless cycle of work & childcare. Plus, she is talking about wanting to move cities again, how unhappy she is, etc. I don’t respect men who deny their wives the chance to have one child to love… but women: We aren’t all callous, selfish louts. I was scared of having the first child (and the second one.) We’ve sorta maybe overcome some hurdles, but at some point, aren’t my fears justified? “
Your fears are justified, just not taken into consideration by your wives who can’t seem to prevent themselves from breeding.
I have to say I was rather taken aback by the resentment and bitterness expressed in the threads by the women towards their husbands/partners. Clearly, the overall feeling is that the men are selfish for denying them their wish to continue breeding.
We never really hear much about what men feel about having more kids even though they really may not want to. The particular forum thread is an old one, but I wouldn’t be surprised if this issue is more than a little responsible for divorces down the line.
Thoughts?
Technorati Tags: childfree, vasectomies, vasectomy, men are selfish
its as if these women, dont understand, cant have compassion, for anyone else.
a lot of these “reasons” are purely selfish, notice its always *I* want, *I* need. no thought to money, or health or any other reason, just I* want, *I* need.
the first comment, **I think your husband should have consulted with you before he made his appointment. No, I don’t feel you are being selfish for wanting a daughter and being angry with your husband**
why should he consult her, its HIS body, his choice, his decision. if she wants an abortion, should she ask him. to be polite they should, but its my choice, my decision, my body, this holds true for men and women.
the amanda woman, well, i am stunned, but not really
just imagine, a woman has a tubal, and a man says, well i want a baby, and u must get it reversed.. imagine the outcry, the how dare he, and yet, its ok for them to want a man who has had a vasectomy, to get it reversed for THEM.
but even in a divorce, the men get shafted, they have to pay for the children and the wife, and more, so even a divorce isnt good sometimes.
Guess with some breeders they don’t feel complete unless they keep breeding. Something I find totally disgusting, but there you have it. Different people, different perceptions.
I pity the kids AND the husbands.
These women are all being incredibly selfish IMO. It’s not like their husbands are denying them ANY children, they are saying that they don’t want to have ANY MORE children. As for the women who want to keep trying for daughters, what happens if they have one more child and it is a son? Will they keep trying for a daughter? Will they keep saying “Just one more…”? Where will they draw the line?
It seems to me that some of them may have serious self-esteem issues. There has been a lot written about self-esteem and teenage mothers; that pregnancy boosts self-esteem….getting pregnant and having babies makes one feel like an important adult.
The same types of feelings seem to manifest themselves in some (but not all) of the respondents; that without children they are not worthy…that they are not complete or not successful in some way.
By all means, healthy couples who both want children should get busy …but they need to both be emotionally prepared.
PS: could I use the word ’self-esteem’ more in a single post ;-).
Hmm. What I think is sad in these situations is the fact that you have two married people who want vastly different things, and can’t both get what they would ideally like.
I don’t know that saying “well, she got one (or 2 or 3) kids out of him already and should be happy with that” necessarily going to make someone feel better, especially the woman who has one child. We also don’t know what the couples discussed or expected prior to marriage.
I realise that people change and that what they want out of life changes, but I don’t completely see anyone in these scenarios being more or less selfish than the other- they just want different things, and wish they could change their partner’s mind. I don’t know how I would feel if I really wanted a child or another child and my partner didn’t- either way, it’s a compromise that lets the other person down or makes them feel compromised, right?
I guess in the end you need to decide which situation you want more- to be married to your great love, or to go find someone who will give you the children you want. Either way, it is going to be a difficult, painful decision.
Thanks everyone for these interesting points…
Personally I think the women are being very selfish. If, as has been said, the husband demanded that the woman have another child when she did not want to do so there would be an indignant outcry and rightly so.
I don’t understand how “trying for a girl” after so many boys, or wanting another child “because it’s always been a dream of theirs to have lots” even though the husbands have expressed financial, health and other misgivings can be anything but selfish. It’s all about them. I imagine that the women expect the fathers to support them and the children - being their fathers. Yet when the husband/partner says they feel unable to support more than one kid (or multiple kids) or that they simply don’t want any more, or that depression is taking a toll they resent them or hate them.
We are so quick to condemn fathers who have kids and don’t support them. But there seems to be little support for fathers who want to have a say in how many kids they sire. Probably a vasectomy is a last resort.
Particularly when (as in this thread) the men have gone along with having a child or two (and probably seen their fears/misgivings confirmed).
Is it a compromise? I’m not sure. When you compromise both parties are in a “win-win” situation. I don’t think you can compromise with a wanting a child. You either want one or you don’t. In a partnership, I think both people should want the child. if one doesn’t it’s not fair to coerce them into changing their minds. So, yes, one partner will feel let down - but were their expectations realistic?
Also, if these women go off to find someone who will give them ever more babies with no thought… what happens to their existing kids? Wonder if their new man is willing to take on the existing brood. Of course their father will be expected to support the kids… whether they wanted them or not.
I think that trying for another child just to have one of the opposite sex is really stupid!!!This is my life.Read this carefully before you decide to have more kids based on their male/female sex. My mom had 2 boys already ages 9 and 11 years old when I was born.She had all of us with the same man,also had fertility problems which delayed my coming along when she’d planned to have me 2 years after my middle brother as they were 2 years apart.She actually told my dad that since he had ”raised the 2 boys” that she was ”raising this girl”.This caused a lot of problems in our family.My mom undermined my father every way she could when I was growing up.My mother would disrespect our father right in front of us,and it was really hard to take his authority seriously when my mom was conveying to us that his opinion didn’t count.It was obvious that my dad didn’t want me.He was present in my life but rarely interacted with me while I was growing up.Most of the time he didn’t play with me or spend much time with me and even when he was home from work he would sit outside in a lawn chair and read by himself.
My mom taught me to be a spoiled girly girl who depended on others for everything.It was my brothers that taught me to defend myself and my street smarts and to not take any crap off of anyone.I didn’t get beyond my mom’s one sided raising of me until I was an adult.She taught me to have body image problems and that looks are more important than anything.Celebrity magazines were her guide for what a woman should be-an object for men to have sex with,and a domestic slave. Mom also believed that men were number one,to be taken care of and waited on hand and foot,and women were only second class citizens,here for men’s pleasure alone.Mom never cared about my education and would let me quit any course in school whenit became hard.Mom thought that I didn’t need much education because my only purpose would be to snare a man,produce kids and be a household goddess. Mom was anorexic when I was growing up and always was on me about my weight.This lead to me being depressed and even wanting to kill myself a lot of times.She made me feel unworthy unless I was on a diet.I am obese today because of her negative input.My father was not there emotionally to step in and rescue me from her abuse.I went through years of smoking,drinking and overeating,and popping diet pills,and starving in a vicous cycle of abusing myself.I often have felt that I missed out on my family and being raised with my brothers because of the age gap between us. Nobody ever talks about how selfish it really is to have a child with a big age gap between it and it’s siblings.By the time I came along,my brothers were bordering on teenage years and our family vacations stopped.I only remember one or two summer vacations with the whole family.When my brothers were young,my mom and dad took them all over the country.My mom ended up taking me by herself to travel all over because my dad didn’t even want to go with us.I felt rejected most of my life by my dad because my mother insisted on ”having a girl” and doing what she wanted no matter what he said.My middle brother often insists that he was ‘’supposed to be a girl” because he saw our mother relentlessly spoil me and give me special priveleges that my brothers were not allowed.This has caused tension between my brothers and me,and caused hardship for me after I started working for and earning my own things,also.Every year when I was growing up my mother told my dad right in front of me that she was divorcing him.This turned me into a commitment phobic.My stomach burned daily with the fear that our family would dissolve.My youth was entirely spent under my mother’s strict controlling ways.She had to know everything I did,where I went,who I was with,what I was doing and when I would be home.I remained a virgin until I was almost 20 years old. I never had any fun at all when I was young because of her extreme control.Mom used to beat the crap out of me for not doing exactly what she said.She’d often pull my hair and swear at me and belittle me about my weight and how I look.My mom said over and over again that she was going through menopause,and would use this as an excuse for her screaming,tears,threatening suicide and violent outbursts toward me.I feel that my dad was absent in my life until I was an adult and that my mom only used me to be made into a perfected version of herself.To live vicariously through me.Every accomplishment I have made in my life was looked upon with extreme jealousy by my mom.She has acted jealous because I chose to be a working woman,not a stay at home slave to a husband and kids.She has acted jealous about my work accomplishments as she never kept a full time steady job for long and every educational milestone I have acheived as she quit school in 10th grade. I believe that my mom’s lack of accomplishments in her life made her want to have me so she could punish someone about how her own life went.I chose to be childfree because I know I wouldn’t be a good mother at all.I cannot commit to anyone or anything because of the extreme control I suffered through in my youth.I don’t want anything in my life that I can’t undo.The only thing I can ever commit to is my career because I can always change that. I had my tubes tied four years ago as I don’t want to repeat the cycle of abuse.To all of you out there who want to keep trying for a girl,please don’t.You don’t need to have kids with big gaps between their ages.You also don’t want to make your kid suffer as you go through menopause.And you don’t want o make your kid feel lonely because they were not really raised with their siblings and don’t know them very well.Trying for a girl is a mistake.Using your kids to fulfill yourself and your own shortcomings is a mistake too.Having kids with big age gaps between them is not fair to them as is having them so late in life that you are old and have no patience for them when they are still young and full of energy.Think beyond youself when you decide to bring others into this world.It’s not all about you and your wants and needs.Think about how awful this world will be in the future that your kids will be forced to live in-environmentally,economically and socially.There is too much overcrowding right now,pollution, environmental destruction,disease,poverty,lack of education,competition for jobs & crime to put more people on Earth. Don’t create a child to stroke your own ego.Think before you breed.Thank you.
Thank you for sharing this AF. I can’t imagine what it must have been like growing up having the life that you did. I thought your comment was very moving and I have made it into an article of its own.
As for the message -
“Think beyond yourself when you decide to bring others into this world. It’s not all about you and your wants and needs.” This cannot be said often enough.
yes, but there are some good decent women out there, the childfree women for example, they generally like to be responsible for themselves, what they earn is what they earn and what you earn is what you earn..
but i agree a lot of women are like the ones you talk about, (but there are always exceptions to the rules). unfortunatly the good childfree women, are linked with these entitlement minded women.
generally the cf women and men, have stronger relationships, because there is none of this pressure to have children. and we ll know children can make a situation hell of a lot worse, than if there was no children around.
so yes i agree with you, but i also disagree with some of the stance of the mens rights groups, but that is another topic entirely.
i would want to see parents who love their children made a concious decision by both parties, rather than a single person making the decision. thats almost the whole argument we have with the oopsing women. they never discuss, its always me me me i want i want i want.. babies now.. forget they may not be loved by the father, they forget the financial reasons, or the health reasons.
I agree that these women all have nothing but selfish reasons for wanting more kids. Why is it they can’t love the kids they already have? I think what these women want is another baby - it’s shocking how many of said women love knowing another human [life] is completely dependent on them. But when Snookums starts to develop a little independence or becomes harder to control, Mommy wants another baby because she wants to be able to have one thing in her life she knows she can have control over (holy crap - this would be a great rant XD). And, of course, I’m sure at least one woman has spawned continuously hoping for a gift grab - I mean shower, or just for the attention or to be able to stay home from work.
The worst part is if a man gets a vasectomy against his wife’s wishes, she could easily cheat on him to get pregnant. Even if the man gets proof of a successful vasectomy, he could still be stuck legally caring for that child when it’s not even his. I don’t know about anyone else here, but in the current world, I would be afraid to be a man with a partner - laws are so bent for mothers and children that there’s very few ways in which men can’t be screwed over.
they get screwed without even getting laid. ;-)..
it sucks to be male today..
John Hansen - Thanks for leaving this very interesting comment. I really enjoyed reading a male perspective I think many (most?) women come within your description (sadly) - and I’ve found yet another example of that on a forum but I can still say all women are not the same, just as all men are not the same. Childfree women are an example.
We hear hardly anything about what men really feel about having kids and I wish we could hear much more from them - I do hear women who say “get pregnant at all costs and he’ll come round and naturally love the child…” something I think is a recipe for disaster. I wonder. While not every man is a reluctant father, it appears that, given the choice, many men would not be fathers. It’s really sad to think that never to get married is the remedy to getting “oopsed” or trapped - and actually even if they don’t marry they can still become fathers and have to support multiple kids. I see where you are coming from though. The vasectomy I think is the only sure fire way. As for the plotting and planning - one of my childfree male friends has broken off many a relationship because a short time into the relationship the women start giving of “baby and nesting” signals, and don’t believe him when he says he doesn’t want kids.
Cambion - 99.9% of the reasons people have kids is totally selfish. The more I learn the more that becomes apparent. They probably need the babies to ensure they are in control and to give them self worth. Which raises the question - why are they using a child to satisfy their own ego/shortcomings… must check out “Why Breed” I’m sure there is an answer to that one..
I came upon this website because a dear friend of mine would like to have a second child and her husband would not. I am blown away with the lack of understanding you all seem to have for a women longing to have a child. Her reasons, as many of you have said, are not selfish or to “boast her ego”. She would like for her son to have a sibling, someone to lean one long after she has passed. She has so much love to give and would like to share that with another child. I’m not trying to be rude but do any of you even have children. Because if you did, you would already know that having a child is the most unselfish act ever. When that baby comes into your life you no longer take first position. That baby always comes first. Just a thought.
well several points, will answer them
“She would like for her son to have a sibling, someone to lean one long after she has passed. She has so much love to give and would like to share that with another child”
so she doesnt want a child for herself, she wants one for her other child, but to bring a child into the world, just so the first child will have a sibling, isnt that selfish. there are many one child families, are they somehow less important, because they stop after 1 child?
“She has so much love to give and would like to share that with another child”, so she wants to half the existing love she gives to the first born child then, time, resources, will be split in twain, and so will love, if any siblings, are around there is no guarentee it will love that brother or sister.
” dear friend of mine would like to have a second child and her husband would not”, so the mans opinion is worthless then, she wants a child, he doesnt, does that men she will effectively rape him(force him to have sex to enable her to become pregnant) to gain that all precious sibling?
” Because if you did, you would already know that having a child is the most unselfish act ever. When that baby comes into your life you no longer take first position. That baby always comes first.”
one this is the childfree site, so you would think since we are without children we wouldnt have any, read the bit where it says about like it is, you will see the words childfree. so you are worth nothing then until you have a child, the baby always comes first, whats about the siblings, there cant be 2 firsts, what about the husband, is he no longer needed what about you as her friend, are you no longer needed.
to want a child, to the exclusion of everything else, finances, personal belief, if the husband doesnt want a child, but they are pressured/forced into being only a ejaculation machine, how do you think the man would feel, used, as apparently to a lot of women in that situation a mans worth is only due to the use of his penis and his wallet. thats selfish.
Lynn - I have to ask - What part of the word “childfree” did you not understand? If you have or want children, don’t expect to find encouragement here. It’s a childfree blog.
Mercurior has really said it all, so no need for me to add much more. But you’ve clarified several of the selfish motivations people for having babies.
To have a child for another child to lean on is insurance. And it’s selfish. To have a child when your spouse doesn’t want to is selfish. And as for having a child being the “most unselfish act ever…” people have children because THEY WANT to have them. They have them, not for the children, but for themselves.They may pretend that their motivations are selfless - that does not make them so.
Once the kids arrive of course, they’ve no choice but to put the children first. Babies demand it.
Irony of all ironies…it’s not only women who want this. Yesterday I sat with my father after he just underwent open heart surgery for a valve replacement last week. He’s not doing well. He knows this. He asked my sister and I to come to the bed, he took both of our hands and told us he loved us. He then proceeded to tell us his greatest regret in life was not having more children. He asked us to be strong for each other and our mother. I think this is interesting as both my sister and I have two children each and had not planned on more. I want more, but have not planned on more. Hearing my father say that, something he’s never shared with any of us, including my mother, was shocking. He said that we were his greatest joys and that watching us grow and achieve allowed him to live life all over again. He wished that we had more siblings to grow old with and share life with.
Now perhaps this is just a man after surgery holding romantic ideas of life, but I also wonder how long he’s held this in his heart. He comes from a big family but my mother only wanted two children and so that’s what they had.
I just thought I would share. I came across this site after trying to research what the most common life regrets are as one ages. While I know that my husband and I only planned for two children, I’ve never shared my want of three with him as that’s not what we discussed prior to marriage. I’m curious as to whether this is something I should broach as now I watch my father echo regrets I don’t want to have.
And as this is a childfree living site, I wonder if you too perhaps one day, sitting at 60 in a hospital bed with no children around you to comfort you, change your cool wash cloth, and talk to the doctors- will you too have regrets or will you still count yourself lucky to have “escaped” the wiles of women and their “need” to procreate?
as the childfree say, there no guarentee that even if we do have children that they will be around you death bed. equally, if on your death bed, you regret having children, because there was so much you wanted to do, visit other countries but couldnt due to the children.
would that be a reason to have children, to have them there when your dying.
you cannot say for certain that any child if any will be at your side. if we are in hospital we will have saved up for the best care, because we dont have any drain of resources or money.
Very true. Of course no one can foresee the future. I for one don’t believe that being childfree means a life of doom and gloom, but nor, as I can attest, is life with children horrible and miserable either. I think a lot of it depends on what you want out of life. What are your goals and who do you see in your life. My sister-in-law and her husband choose to be childfree. She is quite happy with her choice and while she will very rarely play the what-if game, she usually wins.
I on the other hand chose a different path. Having children so far at this point is not a regret, and as a matter of fact, something that I’ve thought of doing again. In my particular case, my family is financially very stable, my father is in the best of hospitals, and still, the comfort of family means more to him than someone paid to help him. I think the care of a loved one is more meaningful and usually more attentive. (No always of course- there is no always in life.) BUT the when you speak of why one would have children, I think yes, to have the love around you of your off spring at your end is a reason to have children. I would in no way say it isn’t selfish, because it is. I think people have children to pass on their name, their DNA, their culture, their religion, etc. I can’t think of a reason that having a child isn’t a little bit selfish.
In the end, when you speak of children being around your bedside as no guarantee, too true. But my father and mother were good to me. And when both of my grandparents passed, we again were around their bedsides. They were good to us too. I hope to follow in their examples as parents and grandparents so that I too can find the comfort of love and compassion around me in my final days.
Again, if you are happy in your choices, be content. I just felt the anger on this site directed toward women in their choices to be a mother unjust. But I would also believe that anger toward those who chose a childfree life unjust as well. Motherhood is a tricky balance. Once you’ve experienced it, it is very powerful. To have nurtured and housed a life in your own body…quite amazing. To give birth, fed, and provided for this life and watched them thrive…quite, quite powerful and amazing. No, I don’t question why women want to do it again, because the first time a child looks you in the eye and tells you they love you is life changing. But I do believe that there are many who give birth and never get that, and if you decided that being childfree is a better way of life for you because… You fill it in, good for you!
I guess my post was just to say that bashing choices either way is inherently wrong. Why pit woman against woman? Sing with me…
Kumbaya… :oP
*I read the mistakes…sorry, but no time to edit!
i understand, but when you get told hundreds of times a year, you will change your mind, and so on, we do a little bit defensive.
there are no guarentees, thats part of the problem the idea that you will have loving children, when its equally possible they will not love you at all. i work for an old persons charity, i volunteer there, and i see 80 year old people who have kids, and grandkids and great grandkids, left to rot, no one goes to visit them, no one speaks to them. thats the saddest part. just spending 30 mins with them and you see tears of gratitude flow.
these are the same people who probably said the same thing you did. whats the solution, accidently oops him which has happened to others and expect the happy bluebirds flying image, or will it create more stresses on the marriage, and maybe end up with him leaving her or having an affair.
we want people to think about why they want children, some say its to pass on my genes, but is that the only reason to have children, theres so many selfish reasons, but parents in particular have this idea that its not selfish having a child is the most noblest thing to do. they endow the birth and child with messianic status, and expect others to worship it..
but when we dont we are condemned..
Hello irony - “Again, if you are happy in your choices, be content.”
We are content, thanks. Very. But people will keep on trying to convince us otherwise… sigh.
“I just felt the anger on this site directed toward women in their choices to be a mother unjust.”
Anger? Examples? You’ve really read the whole site?
Firstly, comment and criticism of the attitude of childed people and their incessant pressure on the childfree to procreate just because they have (whether this be insisting on having a kid regardless of their spouse to or telling childfree people that they really ought to have children to know how “wonderful” it is) is not anger. Having said that, this is our blog, our space - and as you correctly pointed out a childfree blog. If we want to be happy, joyful, ticked off, ranting or - or - gasp - angry - about anything we can and will express that to our heart’s content. Last I heard there is no law against being angry.
Secondly, if you to read through the many posts, you will see that this blog isn’t about bashing anyone’s choice. We leave that to the childed. What it is about is holding up many of these ill-informed attitudes of parents towards childfree people and showing them for what they are - anger at childfree people who have made a different choice to them and lack of respect for our choice to boot.
Thirdly, and how can I say this… unless you have been on the receiving end of patronizing parental bingoes, I’m not sure how you can say whatever anger there is (if any) is unjust.
Like It Is is a childfree blog, so what exactly was your objective in sharing with us how awe-inspiring amazing carrying/nurturing/feeding a child is, hmm? Given that by being childfree we have zero interest in what it feels like to birth babies, I have to wonder. You see, it’s what society loves to bang us over the head with.
That’s the problem. This is our space to freely talk about it - without apology. Some mothers can’t seem to help themselves, just like they can’t seem to help telling us that we’d better have kids or we might be old and lonely, and hey - look at them and their insurances against lonelieness. Or how we should have children so we don’t regret it when we’re 60, or 70. Or about how wonderful having children is. Or how selfish we are. We could probably quote you chapter and verse - and in our sleep too. :). Yep.
But we still aren’t interested.
I know you want to share what a powerful experience being pregnant and having kids is (for you I assume) I question why not share that on a parent forum where you have plenty of people to empathize with you? This here blog is about being childfree and the challenges and joys of living our childfree lives - despite society’s condemnation.
On this blog… you won’t find much encouragement to share that “awesomeness” you described.
I think that women want to have children because it is genetically programed in our brains. Let’s be realistic. Females of any species look for males that will produce strong, healthy offspring. Females of primate species also tend to look for males that will produce and provide for strong, healthy offspring. It is not terribly romantic to simplify things that much, but it is reality.
Women have to realize that their desire to “breed” as you all put it, is just genetics. Our desire to nurture something can be redirected in many directions. However, if a woman really wants to have a child, nature will not necessarily allow distractions.
Our survival probably is due to that very fact.
but by being humans, by being “more” intelligent than the animals, we have it in us to change the world and us, by our decisions.
should we be slaves to our instincts to the detriment of ourselves and others.
What separates humans from animals is the ability to think and rationalize and make decisions. Deciding not to reproduce is one of them.
According to you, women are reduced to being mindless slaves to their wombs.
I find your view insulting and ridiculous.
i hope that was to sharon liz..
Sharon - What a pity you buy into that nonsense.
Being realistic means recognizing that women as human beings are able to make decisions. As Liz says, that includes making a decision not to breed. Rabbits breed. They, unlike women have no choice. Women do.
Mercurior - Liz has said it all. And I think she’s talking to Sharon.
i thought so.. but.. just thought i would check ;-)..
if we didnt use our intelligence to live. then we would still live in the trees.
we are all more than just a physical form, yes we do have urges and needs and wants, but rather than just taking what we want we use our intelligence to choose the right path.
but a lot of people only want us to be mindless and the operative word is mindless, breeders. with no thought to the future.
lemmings breed and breed and breed, then they starve to death because theres no food left. same with locusts, are you putting us humans on a level with them?
Oops,mercurior, I’m just seeing this post now. . . of course I was talking to Sharon lol
i sort of knew ;-)…
Having children is the greatest act of love. You don’t have children merely to pass on genes, or someone to help you when you are old.
You have children because the joy of CHILDREN! Creating life. Watching a baby grow into a adult. being there to witness their first steps, falls, words, smiles, words….
You may not like other children but having your own child is the most rewarding experience in life and I don’t think its for everyone. I am glad that all of you are child free because you would probably wouldn’t make very good parents when you can’t see the reasons for having children.
One could argue that not having children is selfish.
Don’t sit there and put people down for wanting more children…you have no clue what its feels like to have children and reading your posts make me laugh out loud.
Honey, my friend has quit her job to care for her elderly father who’s suffering from Parkinson’s Disease. That’s one of the greatest acts of love I’ve ever seen - far greater than some condescending breeder troll spouting off in a childfree blog about how wonderful parenting is.
You claim the CF wouldn’t make good parents yet in the next sentence “One could argue that not having children is selfish”.
So which is it?
One could argue that your reasoning is ass backwards.
We’re not putting people down for wanting more children - we’re discussing how both partners wishes should be considered equally.
The Internet has plenty of mommy blogs where you can twitter on about your kid’s first steps so off you go!
I am a mother of three boys who wants a girl. I love the mother to son relationship that i have with my sons, and I would love to have a daughter to have a mother to daughter relationship. I want anouther child because the love that my family is just that great. I won’t try to explain this to you any more because you have made it very clear that you wouldn’t understand nor do you care to try. all i ask is that you don’t judge me. I just wanted to say that i may not have travelled the world but my life has been full. I would also like to say that you are right when you say that my children may not be there in the end when i need them we don’t know tha future but I do know that when you need someone in the end there will be know one there because in your future everyone is as old as you are and needs someone to. Thats why they callit the circle of life, because your child needs you and then you need your child. even it you have the money to do that for you, you will still need someone you can trust.
marie.. why are you here then. why do you feel its necessary to “brag” about the fact your uterus worked 3 times, and you want it to work again. does that make you a better person.
” I won’t try to explain this to you any more because you have made it very clear that you wouldn’t understand nor do you care to try. all i ask is that you don’t judge me”
parents judge us all the time, how do you know we dont understand, because we have never had a child?. i have never had bowel surgery, but i understand the process, and the psychological aspect. does that mean anyone who doesnt experience what its like to have an asthma attack, is dismissive of it.. because they dont happen to have had one.
you are judging all of us here on this board, from a few comments, you judge us. as being ignorant of the realities of children, i worked in an old persons home, and dealt with the elderly, and they are left to die and rot. and they have children.. but they dont care unless they get something.
so why are you here then, to brag.?
Marie - as mercurior says, I can’t imagine why you are wasting your time writing here, seeing you have much better things to be doing. May I suggest you find another blog to brag about your reproductive trophies. Here is decidedly not the spot.
I have only one daughter and wished to have another child, but my husband said NO WAY. I have sort of accepted it but have sort of left it in the hands of the Gods. However I know of a couple who were both only children who married each other. They were friends of my sister. So their children have no uncles, aunts or cousins, so my sister and her family are kind of surrogate aunty to their kids.
Also I know of ladies who have had relationships and careers and have failed to snatch a husband. They have regretted not having children especially when they get to that age…. 50’s. I suppose they have the thought that they will be lonely OLD women with no one to visit them when they age.
I still feel mildly envious of families with 3 or 4 children, and the children will always have someone to talk and play with. Obviously if your children are raised with respect and there is no emotional or physical abuse, they will grow into wonderful adults.
fleur so your husband and you only had 1 more kid, fine, what if you were so obsessed with them you chose to cheat on him, (its happened).
well i know 50 year old people who dont have kids and they dont regret a thing, the MYTH of someone will look after me when i am old is just that.
there is no guarentee your child will look after you, it may dump you in a old persons home and leave you to rot, until they can steal your property.
” still feel mildly envious of families with 3 or 4 children, and the children will always have someone to talk and play with” thats rubbish, you are romanticising 3 or 4 kids, oh they will be best of friends.. rubbish. theres no guarentee.
fluer, why are you here? to tell us u stopped at one, or that you want more if you hadnt noticed.. this is a childfree blog. to brag about children, to people who dont care. people who wouldnt have children if you paid us.
Fleur, your comments show your ignorance, quite frankly.
Like Merc said, just cos you have a child, doesn’t mean you’ll be looked after in old age. I used to work in a retirement home so I have some idea what I’m talking about. Most of the residents were parents and most of them had more than 1 child and they were lucky to get an occasional visit or phone call. Whereas the few who were childfree never lacked for visitors. I think this was because they’d prepared themselves psychologically and knew they wouldn’t have children to rely on anyway. Worst case scenario: if a childfree person were to end up lonely, they wouldn’t be any lonelier than the childed. And they wouldn’t have sacrificed decades of their lives and all their resources to ungrateful children either.
Failed to snatch a husband? Lady, I got news for ya: this is the 21st century. You talk like a husband (or at least getting one) is the be-all and end-all of a woman’s life.
What self-respecting woman wants to “snatch” a husband anyway? That seems horribly calculating to me.
At the risk of repeating Merc, having 3 or 4 kids and thinking they’d all get along is just not true. And even if you do raise your children right, there’s no guarantee they’ll turn into wonderful adults.
This is a childfree blog and you’re obviously not here to support us or at least keep an open mind and maybe learn about a different viewpoint than your own. I’m trying to work out why you’re here, frankly. . .
you can always repeat me liz ;-)…i dont mind..
most of you are crazy. I came to this page b /c I want more and my husband says he doesn’t. But about 2 months ago he teased me and said that he really did want more. so I’m not sure what he wants! But its not selfish if a women wants another child. that is in most women to have children. if money was a factor, which it isn’t, or if my husband did most of the work, which he doesn’t do hardly half the work, than i would be selfish. Money doesn’t matter, and i do almost all the work. therefore i am not selfish if i want a 3rd child!!!
Jeez, there’s a lot of breeder trolls here lately. . .
So most of us are crazy cos we think both partners should be in total agreement as to whether they’ll have more kids or not. Typical breeder logic.
why come to this CHILDFREE board then?
maybe he changed his mind because you nagged him for months,
one answer to how do you know what he wants.. is to ASK him,
it is selfish if she wants a child to the exclusion of HIS feelings. you dont care about him only your precious dna replicant. you have 2, cant you be satisfied with 2. so its ok to be selfless if your rich then???
Thank you for posting these comments as it’s good to hear the other side of it. About a year ago I had surgery and had some complications so to cheer me up my husband suggested trying to have another baby to give us something happy to look forward to. A few months went by though and he changed his mind. I can’t help it but I feel really resentful because he got my hopes up! I don’t want to force him to have more kids, but I just wish he didn’t promise me something than go back on it.
How do I get over these bad feelings towards him? I just wish I could be happy. I don’t know what’s wrong with me. I wish I wasn’t so resentful about this but it’s hard to just “turn off.”
so to make you happy, after surgery, the forced, slicing of your own flesh, with complications. you want a child?
could that complication be affecting the possible child. But people can and do change their minds, its what humans do.
perhaps he was worried about your medical condition, the financial after your surgery, and so on…
how to get over your bad feelings.. talk to him, calmly, and listen. maybe be has good reasons, maybe if you had a child it could put your life at risk, and he doesnt want to lose you. talk to him and listen to what he says.
We talked last night and we both could see that I really want another kid and he doesn’t and that we’re not going to “change” each others mind. It ended in a huge fight. I would never want to have another kid if he’s not ready though because I wouldn’t want him to feel bad towards the new kid. I’m on the pill but I would never ever trick him into getting me pregnant.
My mother died from breast cancer 7 years ago and I guess a part of me wants a big family to replace some of the love I lost. I know, nothing can replace her, but I became so close to my sisters after that happened and I don’t know what I would’ve done without them. I guess a part of me wants my kids to have a large support system if something were to happen to me or my husband.
I know this isn’t the right time- my husband keeps saying it loud and clear. He even suggested we get a dog last night and he HATES dogs! lol I was raised Mormon (I don’t go anymore) so I guess having lots of kids was imbedded in me as a child. How do I kick myself in the butt and say “Enough already!” Ahhhh!!
why not do more than just have a child, volunteer at a childrens charity, mentor a child, theres so many unloved unwanted children out there, that need a compassionate person..or an old persons charity, there are many older people who are left to rot, due to bad children.
you do seem to be a compassionate person, thinking about your partner. and kudos to you, why not use that compassion for others less fortunate. mentor a little brother or sister, that way you get to feel the love and yet you still have the freedom. thats just my suggestion.
do you know what his reasons are, in not having them. thats why i say calmly talk, theres no need to get angry, or shout. does he know yours. just state calmly without emotion.
thats all i can say. just imagine the good you can do helping so many other people, rather than just the one child.. at least thats my thought.
good luck.
Thank you, Mercurior. I think a big part of my problem (and I suspect the problem of other women struggling with this) is low self-esteem. I graduated college 6 years ago and had a great job then we wanted to have a baby. I had a miscarriage but then got pregnant again a few months later with my first son and I stayed home with him. One year later got pregnant with my second one. I thought about going back to work but when I requested letters of recommendations from my past employers I received no response. Guess I didn’t do as great a job as I thought!
Anyways, in a weird way I guess me having babies is the only thing I’ve “accomplished” and done well in a long time. When you’re a stay-at-home mom, having babies is like your career and having more in a weird way is like “moving up.” I know this sounds really stupid and it’s a horrible reason to want to have more kids, but it is what it is.
A little while ago today I sat down and wrote all the pros and cons to having another kid. I went in with the intentions that my “pro” list would of coarse outweigh the “con” list. Boy was I wrong. By doing this I realized that having another kid would be taking AWAY from my family and would only temporaraly be making me feel like I accomplished something great. But what about when that kid is 2 or 3. Would I want to try again and again?
Thank you so much for your advise- it made me realize that there are so many other things that I can do to make me feel good about my self by helping others, not just by “breeding.”
anything to help, thats part of the problem we the childfree see, its all about what they want, not whats best for society.
i do volunteer work for an old persons charity, and theres 80 and 90 year olds, sho has kids and grandkids and great grandkids, but they never see them, and are left to rot, even 30 mins with one of these people the happiness in their eyes, of human contact. its heartbreaking to think their kids dont want to be with them for just 30 mins. i freely give my time to these people. its not much in the scheme of things, but the feeling that I made a difference, is well worth any time i spend with them.
That breaks my heart- after my youngest starts preschool I’m going to see about getting involved with them. It’s sad how in our society the older generation is just left to rot.
Hello everyone I have one child and would like to have a second and that is my choice, I love children and so do a lot of other people, so they have children. Then we have the childfree group who choose not to have children, either way everyone gets what they want. If you are planning to get married and you want any children at all you should come to an agreement with your spouse to be on how many you both want then you will not run into any problems in the future. That being said Have a great day everyone!
Just wanted to mention that I enjoy reading different perspectives. Recently I’ve been torn trying to decide whether or not my husband and I should have another child. The topic crept into my mind over the last 6months and has gotten strong enough that I mentioned it to my husband. We currently have 2 and although my husband isn’t strongly against having another child, it was me who brought it up… I’ve been doing alot of thinking; trying to determine WHY this is on my mind so much. I certainly don’t want to bring a little person into the world if we don’t both want-this and feel like we can be very good parents of 3. I see my husband as a great dad. We’ve been getting along really good. I think I first started thinking about having another baby when I turned 30 because I just adore my kids and started thinking that if I do want another child I want to have my kids close (enough) in age. If I so much as mention anything about BABY to my friends they ALL act as though OF COURSE you should have another baby and if it’s on your mind, you’ll never be able to get it off your mind.
That doesn’t work for me! I have a career & it drives me crazy to think about people who have more kids than they can handle… I don’t want to be a person who has kids for the wrong reasons - nor do I want to be preoccupied thinking about what-if’s 5 years from now. Lately I get a bit sad when I see pregnant woman - Which terrifies me! I don’t want to feel this way!! Anyway, I suppose this is how all the insanity starts huh - lol… Anyway, your blog is an interesting read. Thanks for sharing your perspectives.
Please excuse some of the rambling that is about to follow as I am trying to express some frustration that is hard for me to get out clearly.
I ran into this blog a few minutes ago, while trying to figure out how to deal with the frustration I am feeling towards my wife after yet another spat this morning. We have two boys (9 and 5) and over the last few years my wife has been talking about wanting to adopt a girl. She has “always wanted a girl”. She doesn’t discuss having our own, as both boys were difficult pregnancies and births. Early on I went along with her for a bit, and even had a DSS woman do a home visit with us which is the first step towards adoption, but I think that was more a way to placate her and not really what I wanted. I have been holding my ground more forcefully over the last year as we have moved and for the first time in ten years of marriage (I am 32) I feel like we have reached a comfortable place in life (no more babies and the difficult aspects of that phase of parenting, short commutes, no more boredom at work or thinking about changing jobs or homes). It is this one issue over adoption that keeps coming back up.
This morning we basically came to a head where she said that one way or another she will have a daughter. I told her that what she is basically saying is that she is ready to end our marriage because there is no way an adoption will go through if one spouse is not on board. I also asked that she at least have enough respect for me and our boys and not do this until the boys are old enough to be out on their own. Which she seemed to acknowledge. But on the other hand why should I go through 15 more years of living together when I will be out on my own after that. Maybe it makes sense to leave now and have a chance for another partnership before I get too old
But what of the boys? I shudder thinking about them going through a divorce. Not to mention their mother is a divorce lawyer so I am basically screwed if she decides to be evil (which I don’t think she would be as we both realize how costly. both financially and emotionally a contentious divorce can be).
So here I am frustrated at my wife. Worried about my sons. And not knowing what to do, being afraid to leave a woman that I respect and love outside of this one issue.
I love being a parent, but I am one of those folks that does not want to spend his entire life doing only that. I am a teacher. I have kids all day at work. i have kids at home. I want to get to a point in life where I have time to think about and do other things. I started young, at 23. At 45 my kids will most likely be grown and starting out on their own. I want to do other things at that point. Is that selfish? There is more to me than being a parent.
This blog focuses on the birthing of kids. Has anyone else gone through this type of adoption issue?
first i would be careful she doesnt accidentally make you a parent,
but i dont think any of us wants to adopt, so we cant help. we try to avoid kids as much as possible.
i’m really confused. why are there so many parents on this website? what’s the point of coming here, trying to ‘convert’ (i guess you could call it) people to their way of life? it’s kind of ridiculous.
on topic; the reply from ‘wanting my own’ is horrible, i’d hate to be her step daughter
Nico - I’m rather puzzled as well as to why the parents seem to like such a childfree blog. But they are wasting their time trying to convert us!
Britgirl, Nic,
Look at the last line of KG’s post:
Clearly he didn’t read that this is a blog about being CHILD FREE. Not birthing, not parenting, not how-to-convince-an-unrelenting-spouse-to-be-a-parent-again. If KG had actually READ the blog before posting, he’d see this was NOT the place for issues like this. Same with the other parents.
However, as most paRUNT breeders of their ilk, they have to infiltrate EVERYTHING.
[...] spine-tingling site now summarize this recap http://thebritgirl.com/2007/05/14/my-husband-doesnt-want-any-more-children-and-i-do and give comments [...]
a couple of the parents on here, who came here with open minds, like mom of 2 boys, she asked for advice from us. and showed us some respect.
in that case, i dont see a problem. we gave out our views, and she understood them. others like KG hasnt read this board, or the comments, but they are just using it as a bragging board.
but it doesnt work
I found out today that my husband of 3 months doesnt want anymore children (he has 13 an 17 year old daughters from first marriage) and we have a 19 month old son. I am only 24 and i married him under the impression we would have one more as he always said “get the next out quick, dont want a big age gap” I do understand that he now wants time for himself in life and to fufill dreams of his own, and im all for that. But its not easy to just except that you will never have another child when you always wanted one. My son brings so much joy to both our lives.. im not trying to justify having kids, its an individual choice. I have told my husband that i except the decision but just need some time to adjust.
Claire - good for him. Looks like you should have done your homework a little more thoroughly. And, since you probably didn’t bother to check, this is a CHILDFREE blog. And our choice here is to discuss childfree related things. So we’re really not interested in how much joy your kid brings to both your lives, or your whining that now you want another because you’ve always wanted one. I personally could care less.
You need a parent blog. Go find one. This isn’t it.
I am a young female, been with my finace for over 6 years. He has a kid with his ex and I have had three pregnancis - no children. I was basically juggling the idea of kids. Then I thought well… I like to sleep… I like to do my own thing… I have other responsibilities. It is strange how the “urge” to have kids is there but the mind doesn’t want them. My finace doesn’t want anymore kids and I respect that. I don’t want kids but the doctors say I am too young for tubal ligation. I am just having trouble with the natural effect. It is weird I don’t like kids and I know the cost of having them. Plus I wouldn’t want to be one of those women who get all stretched out with fat rolls because they claim that their kids make them eat those cookies.
I can understand the urge to have kids, what I can’t understand is the women who can’t control these urges and give into it. It’s like they are taking drugs and they have no self control and their poor husbands caught in the middle. I can’t stand how selfish women can be. At least I understand the problem and I take corrective measures to fix it.
Hi again! I just wanted to say again how much I appreciated your advice. I had the “strong urge” like many other posters on here and after really trying to figure out WHY I wanted another kid, I couldn’t really come up with anything other than I wanted to “accomplish” something I knew I could do. Meanwhile, my marriage was suffering and when I wrote down a pros and cons list I realized that having another kid would be taking away from my 2 boys. My urge to have another kid quickly went away.
My advise to any moms out there who want another kid but your husband doesn’t- write a pros and cons list of how another kid would affect your lives. Be honest. Another way to look at it- if having kids is your like your career, having another kid would be a promotion. If you were an employee, how would your boss perceive you? Do you complain a lot? Do you seem overwhelmed as it is? If you can barely handle things as it is, what makes you think you deserve a promotion?? If your husband doesn’t want another kid, maybe he’s seeing a bigger picture that you aren’t willing to see.
My advise to husbands out there who can’t get through to their wives, have them write a pros and cons list. I’m sure your wife loves the kids you have so much and would never want to hurt them or take away from them. Writing a list will show them that by having more than 2 kids you may be actually taking away from the kids you have. When I realized this I knew how selfish I was being and I finally let it go. Don’t write the list for her- let her figure this out on her own.
Also, like many other posters on here, I had no idea this was a childfree message board. I had typed into yahoo search “husband doesn’t want anymore children” and this came up. Oopsie!
Anyways, I really appreciate your support and this changed my life and saved my marriage. Thank you.
Vesta, you said doctors told you you were too young for a tubal ligation. That makes me so angry. 20 years ago when I was 19 I wanted to get a tubal. I even went to *Planned Parenthood* and they all told me I was “too young” and that I would “change my mind.”
Ooooh.. that would BURN me! How DARE they assume to know my mind! Especially since *I* have known since I was atleast 6 yrs old I didn’t want kids. (Hence my handle on this blog.)
Eventually, at age 34 or so, I was able to get a tubal. If you really want a tubal ligation to ensure that your decision to remain childfree is firm, keep trying. Keep calling doctors and find one who will give it to you.
It is an outrage how doctors try to control other peoples’ health when it is a person’s OWN responsibility to care for their health. Good luck, chica!
CFSinceSix: Yes it is an outrage especially since I can’t handle the hormones in oral contraceptives. I am forced to take these evil pills that throw my body into whack and I still can’t convice any drs to let me get one. They don’t even want to give me an IUD because they feel that it could complicate things. I don’t know what is being complicated about anything. I really hate the prediciment I’m in because it makes me feel helpless. I would love to go off the pill but then I’m not protected. It is hard to make a dr realize that I am indeed old enough for anything I want, I can drink, vote, smoke. But yet I can’t decide what is right for my fertility. It sucks!
That really sinks, vesta. You’re allowed to kill your unborn child with an abortion, but to be responsible and prevent an unwanted pregnancy in the first place by getting your tubes tied is not allowed because of your age? Where is the logic in that?! Hang in there.
What makes matters worse, my doctor just told me that I can’t get an IUD because I have never had a kid. What the flying f$%$ is going on here? I am not allowed to make my own choice about birth control because I have never had a kid. I am going to go down to the nearest clinic and make them do it. Why the hell am i being punished?!!! I don’t understand. I am not comfortable with hormones they make me physically ill, but that doesn’t seem to bother them.
i have never been so pissed before. It is like I’m in the twilight zone. Where all the breeders are like “You can’t get what you want unless you join us. HEHEHEHE”
@Vesta - perhaps you can find another doctor who will do the procedure. You may need to argue your case… give a long list of reasons why you must have the procedure. Pity you have to do that, but until the closed minds become more open you’ll have to keep fighting. I agree it sucks. Big time. Also, do a Google search on Marie Stopes clinics. Good info on there.
if you are with a partner, and they agree with you, take them down. if your not, find a male friend who says they agree . they dont need to know you are not together in that way.
anything to help, get it done
Mercurior, I see where you’re coming from, but respectfully I must disagree. Why should Vesta have to bring a man or a partner to get healthcare? That only promotes the idea that women are merely chattle for men, don’t know their own minds, and must have “permission.” Sorry, but no. Women are their own atonomous beings. We have a right to healthcare reg