No, it isn’t quite the same as the previous articles, but it is eerily similar. I came across this particular Google search: “how do I make my husband want kids” and it led me to this message board. A woman wants a baby and her husband doesn’t.
She posted on the Women’s Sexual Health – Australian Health Message boards. I had a sinking feeling as I read the question, but I was appalled at the responses, which ranged from “your husband is a selfish man with no thought for your needs,” to “leave him,” to “you should go and find someone to do the job while your husband is abroad,” to “poke holes in the condom, to “leave him, but get pregnant and prepare to bring up the child on your own…”
Simply awful. John Hanson in his comment on this blog yesterday is not far off. For some women (and if the responses on the board are representative, more than just a few) babies, not their husbands – and certainly not their partners – come first. No babies, the husband’s value is negligible, judging by the feedback. This is sad. Very sad.
The writer of the question (to her credit) was also appalled and said so, although, in my view, her fundamental problem is that she wants to force her husband to want baby when he doesn’t want one.
Below is my response to the thread. I’ll probably be called selfish for even mentioning that I’m childfree…but I felt had to say something.
Re: I want a baby, but my husband doesn’t:
The fact that you want a child does not mean you have to have one. There are many things we want and cannot have. If you were the one who didn’t want a child and your husband did, how would you feel if he tried to make you change your mind? Like you I am appalled at some of the responses here.
You cannot make someone want something they don’t. You cannot make them feel something they do not. That is trying to control another’s choice. Unless you got married to him for the sole reason of having children, your husband, not a baby, comes first – he is the one you married – not a baby. It seems that you are trying to force him down a road he clearly does not want to go down, probably with good reasons of his own.
You expect him to accept what you want, however you don’t seem to be willing to accept his. If he gives in (yes, gives in) to your pressure, it does not bode well for either you, the child or your marriage. I presume he will be expected to care for and support the child. If a child is not fully wanted by both parents, it isn’t fair to bring it into the world… children can tell when they are not wanted. You are not thinking of the child here you are thinking that you want a baby.
For the record, I’m childfree. Early on, I knew if I insisted my husband would have had kids and he would have tried his very best to be a good father. But I also knew he didn’t really want children, never had. You don’t put someone you love under that kind of pressure (that’s my view anyway) and I was not dead set on kids anyway. Now we are happily childfree. I would not sacrifice our marriage for babies.
I wish you well.
Technorati Tags: childfree, marriage
{ 1 trackback }
{ 106 comments }
← Previous Comments
Serradalua – you’re rather missing the point. Which is that if one is not sure that they are 100% committed to having and bringing up a child, they are right not to do it. In the case you mention the man’s wife was adamant she also didn’t want kids and then decided she did, years in. In your case your husband hasn’t really changed his mind at all – and neither have you.
But you should really have listened to his reluctance – not hope for his agreement with your desire.
He has changed his mind! He changed from ‘for me it is not important but I am open to it, it’s not a clear cut thing’ to ‘no, I don’t want for a million reasons.’ He would be the first one to admit that. This is the whole issue. I would have accepted his choice to remain childless 5 years ago, I still had options. Now it is a lot more difficult. What you are saying is to fully excuse him of any responsibility towards me. But that actually means he was not mature enough to realise what he was getting himself into, that his intellectual capacity didn’t allow him to think that there will be a time when having a child could become a reality. That’s not true, he is an intelligent man. He consciously make the decision to marry me. He consciously engaged in baby-discussions after we got married, over the years, and still not even then he told me: no, no way…he kept it open. Even when I asked him very very clearly if this was going to be a breaking issue. He said no, he was not a ‘fundamentalist’ on this issue. Did I need to distrust him? He is honest and reliable when it comes to other things…
Serradalua….you are right. I gave up discussing the issue with these people because I felt the same….their answers are completely subjective. No matter what you say, they will continue to tell you you are wrong.
Uhh, Cara, if you have so much contempt for “these people”, then why the hell are you still posting here?
Serradalua , same goes for you: if you wish to disregard our opinions, then do so. There’s no need to keep posting.
here’s a switch. Even though I made it perfectly clear I did not want children before we got married, my husband — after 14 years of marriage — out of the blue – started bullying me into have children. He was nastier than hell about. Told me I ruined his life, that all he ever wanted was children, that the whole reason he drinks is because he has nothing to live for, that I was selfish, etc. So 9 months ago, I got pregnant at the age of 41 and guess who’s burdened the whole preparation for this baby. He got rid of his car for a bicycle because that was more enjoyable for him, yet when I got pregnant – instead of getting a 2nd car as we discussed, he waited 8 months and just took mine. I have been without a car now for over a month and I was a very active person. So beware. I am expecting any day now. I will love this baby, as it is innocent and faultless in all of this and I have naturally taken care of myself for the sake of the baby. But it is true, I heavily resent my husband now.
cara and Serradalua, you both came here and asked questions, and we replied how we thought things would be.
if you dont like the answers then dont ask the questions.. but be prepared for the time when if you do have a child by them,, then they will leave you.
Cara – “these people?” I take it you’ll be getting lost then pretty sharpish then? I can’t quite work out what you are doing here, reading what “these people” have been saying. Clearly, you should be elsewhere.
Serranduala – no reason for you to go on posting here is there?
Alice – bullying you into having children? OK… so he’s a bully and you still had a child with him? You should have stuck by your convictions and not had the child if you didn’t want one. Don’t want a dhild? Then DON”T have one.
Since you evidently gave in, I think you are at least half to blame for your situation. But I can quite see how you would resent him.
I appreciated your answers. I am considering all pro’s and con’s of having a baby, so I am open to hear other opinions and choices. That’s why I posted something in the first place. But for me, the discussion was too much seen from one side…the big difference with the reaction I get from my husband is that he at least understands why I want a baby, and does not think I am selfish. I think a discussion about selfishness or being self-less is a non-starter…life is not black and white…compromises are possible. ALSO when it comes to having a baby. In fact, in all facets of life, people make compromises all the time…and people themselves are not unambiguous but complex creatures. People may think they want a child but actually deep down they don’t want one; ’society’’s prescription made them feel they needed to have a child. In contrast, people may think they don’t want a child, but such a desire may be clouded by fear or something else, and they actually do long for it. In short, deciding about having or not having a child is difficult for anyone (also for the ‘child-free’, what else explains the existence of this blog…)…In my case, we are still talking, and are learning a lot about eachother, and I am confident we will find the right solution that works for both of us. Cheers!
Serradalua, you can hardly complain about how the discussion being one-sided. I’ll remind you that this is a childfree blog. You can hardly expect us to sympathize with your desire to reproduce.
I assure you that not only have I never had the slightest desire for a child, it’s not clouded by fear as you snottily assume. What it boils down to is I’m not interested. Simple. And I’ll bet it’s the same for a lot of us.
childfree blogs exist not because deciding to be childfree is difficult but dealing with society’s reactions can be. they exist so we can support each other from ignorant people’s dumbass assumptions. Like yours.
I don’t see how you’ll find the right solution for both of you. You want a kid, he doesn’t. Whatever happens, one of you will be unhappy.
Cheers!
“people make compromises all the time…and people themselves are not unambiguous but complex creatures.”
How very interesting. I’d never have guessed.
I think Liz has said it all. And I have to say that far from “thinking I don’t want a child and really longing for one,” like Liz I have zero interest in having a child. Deciding to be childfree isn’t difficult. And Liz is also spot on about why childfree blogs exist. It’s tiresome that the ignorant assumptions touted by their equally ignorant holders persist in appearing on CHILDFREE blogs.
Hopefully one thing you do learn is to recognize the truth… that your husband does not want a child – and you do. One might say that’s an irreconcilable difference.
You’re reactions say it all!! Not just subjective, but also insulting and moralistic, like you know my relationship or anyone elses for that matter…I think instead of having a childfree life, you should first get a life! I wish you all good luck! I am afraid I have better things to do (such as making a baby), so I am out of here!
Are you STILL here?? Goodbye – and don’t let the door hit you on the way out
there can be no compromise when it comes to children.
its one of those rare things with only 2 answers. if he does and you dont, if she does and he doesnt.. if she doesnt and he doesnt. there is only 1 (ONE) way it could be ok, if you both wanted one.. so out of the 4 choices. only one needs/relies on having a child.
you cannot have half a child.
Mercurior – Well said.
Relationships rely on compromises being made as far as possible. Surely refusing someone the opportunity to be a parent is just as selfish as forcing someone to be a parent when they do not wish to be!
To clarify what I said above, I have no issue with those who choose to be CF. I am in a relationship where we both would like children, it just concerns me that some people were saying it was ok for the person who wanted a child to go without to keep their spouse happy, but not the other way around.
It seems to me that the issue is more that people need to ensure they share life philosophies with the person they are promising to share their life with, rather than a simple case of right and wrong.
@nix – what puzzles me is the fact that so many do not get it and that includes you. Nobody “owes” anyone else a child. Bringing a child into the world requires TWO loving parents, TWO people who want it and TWO people who will devote their lives to that child. Not one person expecting the other to satisfy their own selfish need for a child, or expecting the other to go down a road that inevitably forces them to have a child and inevitably lays the groundwork for them to regret it.
This is less to do with “keeping a spouse happy” than doing what is right on all counts, particularly for the child. If a partner does not want a child that is fundamental. Children should be wanted by both parents. I would think this is pretty basic and it’s odd that not one of those who are saying how much they want a child have acknowledged this fact. No amount of emotional blackmail makes it right .Talk of “refusing whoever the opportunity to be a mother or a father” falls into that bucket, and is crap.
And for the record, I don’t think anyone here has said it is black and white. When there have been initial agreements and minds are changed about having a child or not, that is never black and white. The whole issue here is that people change their minds and there are repercussions and consequences.
Unfortunately for both people in such a situation if one of them does not want a child there is no getting away from that fact. There isn’t a compromise. And if that is the case they have no business having them.
exactly britgirl. imagine for example you didnt want a child nix, and your partner did (i know it will be hard for you to do so), but he or she pressures you into doing something you dont want. wouldnt you resent that interference in your personal life.
now i am saying that everyone couples and singles need their own personal life outside of marriage. it helps keep thing strong. (familiarity breeds contempt), now back to the example, this person resents the childs existence, and it could be acted out in certain ways, like they not doing the work, then all the way upto abusing the child.
so is it worth the resentment the possible (it does happen i know) abuse, the chance they might leave you because they were forced to do something against their will. or even some have affairs..
kids should only ever be brought up in a loving household, 2 parents for preference, no child should be resented either conciously or subconcously. as one poster here said they “gave” in and now resent their child.. is that a good family?
Hi,
I am hoping that you childfree people can help me with some pep talk. I am 39, no children, bad in relationships. Recently I met a wonderful man and I finally , after 10 years, dared to get involved in a loving relationship. This man has 2 children from a previous marriage. He does not want another child and says he does not know if he can ever change his mind.
I understand this. He does not want more children, period.
I on the other hand strongly long for a child. he has made clear that he understands if I chose to leave him since I am running out of time (if there is any).
I don’t wish to leave this man. I may not find somebody else I can rely on and I may not be able to have kids anyway because of my age. But it is a difficult decision and I don’t know how to NOT ruin the relationship and have this come between us. I have to accept there will be no children. I just don’t know how to get peace with myself and supress this strong longing. How did you people in the same situation manage it?
Grateful for comments
for some of us we just KNOW, that kids are bad for us, some like you are on the fence so to speak.
first question have you lived for anytime with a child, a weekend or so..
sometimes seeing the real gruesome stuff, like stinky smelly nappies, being vomited over, getting woken up every few hours. (this happened to me i stayed at my fiancees and all this crap happened), listening to the same damned dora the explorer episode over and over and over.. this is from birth to at least 2, then the tantrums start, the screaming constantly, the i want i want, and screaming like a banshee in public.
then when its older theres the why moments, it continually says why.. why. why,.. then at teenage they say they hate you, when you wont give them anything.
you need to focus on the bad stuff that happens. it isnt all happy clappy time, ask your man, why he wants to be childless with you, i bet you will find most of it will be the badness his kids did.
thats my advice. do you want to risk the love you feel for him, over something that may never happen. theres no guarentee you will have a child, or it may take many years.. really you need to sit down and make a list of the pros and cons of it, and be brutally honest. are you prepared for 2 am feedings, 4 am feedings. dealing with baby vomit all over you and your clothes and having to smell it all the time. dealing with stinky nappies, and i do mean they are worse than nerve gas, the smell is pervasive.
(sorry everyone going into detail now look away if you are queasy wish i could)
then theres the stretch marks, the vaginal tearing where the flesh rips open and you may have stitches there, incontinence pre and post birth, the discharges after birth. then theres the possible diabete’s, or anemia due to the birth, plus the physical pain, then the cracked nipples due to breast feeding.. then the lack of sleep, (could turn into sleep psychosis,), the possible post partum depression, then what if your child is disabled.. have you thought about that, how you would cope.. some of these reasons will be why other cf dont have kids, some wont..
once you have had the child are you prepared for the lack of money, the lack of time for yourself, many parents say they dont have time to wash and or clean the house, beacuse the are looking after the child.
i know they say its the most important job in the world, but you need to work out is it for you. for us childfreedom means more time with our loves, our passions and hobbies, and we give our time and money to good causes. we make a difference, but we are unsung..
just a few things, these are some of the reasons for us and other to not have kids.. take them if they help, but come up with your own. and if you still want kids, and he doesnt.. then.. you know what has to be done.
I think it’s a question of priorities, you’ll just have to decide which is more important: your relationship or the chance to have children. It does sound as if you really care for this man and don’t want to lose him. As you say yourself, you may not meet anyone better and time isn’t on your side.
Even if you never have any of your own, there are lots of ways to have children in your life. You could try volunteering, being a Big Sister, etc. You could end up having the best of both worlds ie you spend time with kiddies and have peace and quiet when you need it!
Personally, I’d choose the relationship – however, I’m not you and only you can decide. I hope things work out for you whatever you decide.
i agree liz, it is a personal choice we can only tell you what works for us..
Ellie – if this man is the love of your life and you want to be in a permanent relationship with him having children isn’t going to be part of the package. If you can truly accept that, then you don’t have a problem. You can only feel peace with yourself if you feel you have made the right decision for you.That means it has to be a decision you can live with and that you won’t bring up and throw in his face when you both have arguments down the road – as you will. From what you’ve said, it seems you are trying to do what might keep the relationship Because , deep down, you’d really rather have both.
From where I sit, if you strongly long for a child and you know he doesn’t want any, the writing is on the wall, and you really have to think with your head because right there I can see there is an incompatibility.
Somewhere along the line,you have to make a choice, and no one can make it for you. With this particular man it is babies or relationship. To be blunt, if your heart is set on making babies, find another man. Your man has said he will understand, which leads me to believe he has some understanding of the impact of his feelings on you. There are no guarantees, of course,so you may have a baby with somone else and still be miserable, but this in this relationship unless you are fully and completely accepting of his lack of desire to parent – AND what this will mean to you and to him, this will be the elephant in the room. That much is guaranteed.
As far as I was concerned my relationship was more important to me than having children. My husband didn’t want to parent. I could have forced the issue, but it was not that important to me. And I have never regretted it. But if children were more important then I would not have married this man.
I am not you.. but you have to decide what is you want. And what is more important to you. Don’t forget it isn’t just about you in the end.Even though you’d love a child with all you had, a child really does deserve two loving parents.
I wish you well.
Ha ha ha loosers, just buy a baby
Hello everyone! (22yrs)
Im sorry for being another wife who wished her husband would want to have kids. The truth is that Ive sacrificed many things in life for him, and i only ask one in return. i now live in another country with out seeing my family in already two years, i learned a new language, i did what i could to adapt soon to a new culture with no one else to help me, and at the end i just wish i could have one thing in return. A baby from the both of us. And in a way it may sound selfish like some people call it, but in my point of view its a show of love! Its something that was made by both of us. and something that can make us happy, somthing that we can work for, a real goal in life, to raise our own baby in a good way. That for me is satisfaction. its real love. Of course theres people who say: “why cant u put ure self in his feet and accept to never have kids?” First of all in our dating time, he said he would if it was nessesary, and now he says he ment something else… All I know is that ive tried for two years to not want a baby of my own, and the reason why it makes me sad is cuz I dont want to leave him for a baby, I really love him, but i wish he could help me with something im not so strong in, like not wanting to have a baby. I just wish you people that are reading this, and whom dont want to have kids but theire partner does, to please try to understand that in the deapest part in my heart its not cuz im selfish(ive so far been the one who gave my whole life for him) Im just in love with my husband, and i think love comes true when u show it by doing what the other person wants before what u want, and if someone can do that, they are the best person in the world, they can save that person, by giving them the best gift any one could get, LOVE!
It has many responsabilities, but also many happy things, that u wouldnt get if you are not there in that situation, plus u never know how u would react if you would have them. But u do know the miserable person that one feels when that cant happen to you, having a kid of your own. In my point of view some men will just never understand this, until they are in a womans body, cuz woman were created to HAVE children. Its only a normal desire, and totally not wrong to want children of your own. For me it shows, mercy, compasion, love, tender, need, humbelness, etc… When u have a desire to have a lovely baby not a drug or alcohol adiction or a secret relationship with someone else, or robbing, or killing.. This is the most normal and tender feeling someone in my eyes has. Much love to give. And to want to share her life with some one else like a new person a baby, sacrificing so many things in life for such a wonderful gift.
THank you all for those who agree and those who dont for your time. I would like a coment on this if possible, and yes, like I said before, I am a woman with a need of a Baby, of a feeling of being a mother, and a caring for another type of person. xx
ok, ::stretches till my spine cracks::
so to take your rant in its sections. you may have sacrificed a lot for him, but did he force you to go to the other country? didnt you have a choice. didnt he have a choice?
you mention a baby is a show of love, love is beyond physical, beyond anything else in this world. love is. love accepts and understands. Love is the greatest thing. but a child doesnt guarentee love, by itself or by other people.
so having a child, will make you happy, does that mean your life with Him is unhappy, there is no guarentee it can be brought up in a good way, some kids are born bad. how will you deal with that. if your partner didnt want a child and you push him into having it, he may resent it. and may cheat on you, or abuse it (it has happened before).
i am not sure what you were saying, in “but i wish he could help me with something im not so strong in, like not wanting to have a baby.”
if he doesnt want a child, there is only a few ways to have one, one is to cheat on your husband, which as you say you love him you wouldnt do. or poke holes and or not take birth control, which is a betrayal of his beleif.
it seems that in parts you say i sacrificed my life, so i deserve this, your 22, your young, see a bit more of the world and life.
your comment “i think love comes true when u show it by doing what the other person wants before what u want, and if someone can do that, they are the best person in the world, they can save that person, by giving them the best gift any one could get, LOVE!” you are doing what he wants before you, and you love him.
the idea that women were created to just be a uterus, denigrates women as a sex. women were meant to die in childbirth 4000 years ago, does that mean we should allow that to happen, humans have control over their bodies, we have intelligence, we have the knowledge of future, shall we just become breeding machines, with no thoughts other than rutting.
how does it show mercy, in having a child, or compassion, can you only feel those things if you have a child. what about working in an animals charity, thats compassion, are these feelings any less valid, because they are not child based.. i think not
you go back to sacrificing to have a child, not mentioning you will sacrifice a lot more for that child, money, time, sleep, resources, and more..
on the end you say caring for another person, why not an elderly person, or a disabled person, or an older child, a teenager. are they less important that a child. cant you care for anyone but your own dna replicant.
PW – you are labouring under a delusion. Here’s the thing. Love does not equal baby. Baby does not equal love. Baby does not equal substitute for the stuff you’ve listed.
There’s nothing sacrificial about anything you’ve said. There is a lot of whining about “poor me” and “my husband won’t do what I want him to, just because I want him to.” Get real.
Seems to me he’s pretty smart.
if any of you have read the comic love is, you will see that love doesnt rely on a child. slightly soppy, but romantic
http://tinyurl.com/2f8fkq
love is..
The only thing I can share in this is my experience. I have known that since I was six years old I did not want a child. I have confirmed my decision several times in my life:
1) I was 19. I had already known I did not want kids even though I was told the usual “you’ll change your mind,” “you’ll find the right man,” ad nauseum. There was a guy who I liked and when I was getting to know him I knew he’d ask me out. I then found out he had kids. It was interesting because my heart sank. For the first time in my life I did not ignore my feelings: my heart sank. I listened to my gut and thought, “If I did not want my own kids, why would I want to take care of someone else’s?” I ended up telling him I was not going to waste my time or his and I wished him well and good luck. I also tried to find a doctor (going to planned parenthood no less!) who would sterilize me. No doctor would, and was told so, because I’d change my mind. I was insulted but gave that up thinking I’d live a life on birth control.
2) At about 26 I was living with someone for about 3 years. I knew he wanted children and I considered very seriously why I did not want children and to seriously reconsider that. I did. Then it occurred to me: wait a minute, why doesn’t HE seriously consider why he wanted children? why doesn’t HE seriously reconsider wanting kids? I realized it had all been one sided, for me, in that particular relationship. After 3 years, we broke it off. I wasn’t going to do that to myself or him. I had to be honest with myself: I did not want children. Period. No reason why, and frankly this was another turning point for me: I didn’t NEED a reason why, I just needed to be honest with myself.
3) At around 32 I went in for weight loss surgery. I was not dating anyone at the time, completely single. I pretty knew, with conviction, that I did not want to have children, never wanted them, and never will. I asked if I could have a tubal ligation, “… while you’re in there.” Yes, I literally said that. He said that while he was capable of performing that surgery (hell, he was going to completely rearrange my digestive tract!) the hospital had a policy that an OB/GYN must perform it. *sigh*
My WLS was pushed up by a month (yay!) and this is why I firmly believe that God accepts the childfree. By the time I was to have surgery for weight loss, they had still not found an OB/GYN who could be available to give me a tubal ligation. Again, i accepted I’d have to have another surgery at a later time or be on birth control AND condoms for the rest of my life. So here I am at 5:30 in the morning the day of my weight loss surgery when the surgeon comes in with a form saying, “Good news! We found someone at the last minute to perform your tubal! He’s had a cancellation and can come in during the surgery to perform your tubal ligation. Just sign this form and we can perform that procedure as well.” He didn’t need to finish, I had grabbed the clipboard and EAGERLY signed. Then I read it. heh.. after my weight loss surgery my surgeon came in to tell me that not only did the weight loss surgery go well, so did my tubal ligation. He said, “You’re snipped and burned!” yay! My mother was in the room, I am an only child. Let’s not go there.
Since then I had dated a few men, I told them up front that not only was my decision COMPLETELY final, it was PROVED to be a firm decision due to my sterilization. Some men couldn’t handle that and couldn’t even break up with me. Good lord, and these men want to have children? When they didn’t have the balls to atleast maybe even *text* me a break up message?
At anyrate, I have since met an amazing man and told him upfront about my decision and sterilization. He told me upfront he also didn’t want to get married. Yet again I am faced with a decision: do I want marriage? Or do I want a wonderful relationship with him? I have decided that I would rather be with him than find someone who simply wants to be married. And I am happy with that acceptance. The important thing: he is CF as well.
My only concern is his parents and other people. We have been together for 3 years. He’s the son – so his father is wanting him to “carry on” the family name. (Insert eye roll here.) Fortunately for both of us, “carrying on” the family name is not any big deal for him. My partner has other reasons for not want children (different than mine, but the result is the same.) Just last night we were at a restaurant with his parents where we know the owner. He has had twins in the last couple of years. The owner of the restaurant made an offhand comment to my partner, “Better have your kids NOW before your parents are too old to babysit!”
First of all.. how insulting to his parents to assume they’d babysit. Secondly, well, it’s the assumption that all hetero-couples will have children.
Okay, I realize this is long winded but one more story because this blog and the series of comments has brought this to mind. My partner’s best friend is 33 or so. He’s been looking for a woman to marry and subsequently have children. He wants children before he’s 40 because he doesn’t want to be too old when they’re teenagers. He recently found a woman he really really liked. I wont’ go into what started the conversation but they had The Talk about kids. He was crying because he broke it off. Why? Because her comment was that while she didn’t want children, she’d have them for him. He refused. He wants a woman who wants children. I know he was really sad because he really liked her, but he refused to settle for less than that. I really admire him for that. Her life, on the other hand, if she does not want kids but has them anyway just to be married? That’s a train wreck waiting to happen.
Now, the as for me: I refused to settle for someone who “might or might not” want children. I was willing to be alone in life if it meant I could not find someone who wasn’t firm on their decision. I’d rather be alone that be with someone who was not decided. And the same goes for my partner. He was willing to be alone if he couldn’t find someone who didn’t want kids and wasn’t happy with not being married. Even now, while I would be EXTREMELY sad, if my boyfriend changed his mind and decided he wanted children, I’d let him go. And he has the same feelings, however, I can’t have kids so that point is taken out. But if I wanted to be married, I’d have to go off and find someone who wanted marriage. Like I said, I’d rather be with him, a wonderful man, than find someone who may end up leaving me anyway – marriage is no guarantee of committment now a days.
So now, I just find BritGirl’s blog (amazing blog by the way!) and I’m reading all of these really pathetic and whiney posts of, “But my husband SAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIDDDDDDDDD he miiiiiiiggggggghhhhhhhtttttttt!” If there is something I have learned is to not just to actually listen to what a man is telling you, but to also listen to what he’s NOT telling you. No pity here for the women (or men) who want children and are with someone who doesn’t want kids. I’m making a judgement call here, but those people should have left long ago and found someone who was sure.
And for those who then changed their minds later one: there is no compromise on children. Contrary to what some people might want to believe, even ONE child is NOT a compromise. And it’s not just “one” thing either. It’s a whole life of the child, and the two people involved: mother and father.
BritGirl, thanks for the blog and the comments. I’m so sorry this was so long winded, but really… the comments of the wanna-be parents are so sorry that I was inspired to post. I don’t really feel any pity for them, and then their insistence and later anger when CHILDFREE people don’t give them what they want to hear. My only response to them is to grow up – before their non-existent children do.
Harsh? Well, just be honest and things get simple and not so soap-opera drama complicated.
Wow! CFsince Six – Thanks for sharing this with us. I read it through quickly and I’m reading it again, slowly. Much, much food for thought in your comment and something – I think for everyone to take away. Thank you again.
great post, and i as a man agree with it 100%.
there are more cf men out there than people suspect, but they generally go for it is shuts her up, if it gives me a quiet life.. it never works.. but..it does happen.
I just wanted to comment on this subject. I have kids but my husband doesn’t want anymore so I will likely be getting a tubal ligation, since he does not want to get snipped. He doesn’t want surgery in that area I suppose. I think a V would be easier than a tubal but thats beside the point.
I’m commenting because my brother-in-law was the result of a one-sided decision. His mother had a ‘feeling’ that she was supposed to have one more. (they already had 6 kids) She felt that God was telling her to have one more. She talked to her husband about it, and he was adamantly opposed to having more kids. She ‘tricked’ him and conceived anyway. He resented her for it, and whats more he resented the baby. I guess he never bonded with him. It’s sad because my brother-in-law didn’t, and still doesn’t have a relationship with his dad. His dad kicked him out of the house when he was 12 and the mom just went along with it. He’s not close to either parent now. Needless to say, the marriage quickly dissolved after she got pregnant. It’s just sad because it didn’t have to be that way. There are other instances where children have been abused because of the decision was only one-sided and either the hubby gave in to stop the endless nagging, or the wife tricked him (not saying it’s ok, but it DOES happen and it’s horrifying) To any women who are reading this blog and hoping that their husband will change, or will change his feelings ‘after the fact’ please please please, I implore you to give up this wishful thinking and not persue to try and change someone because it won’t happen. Children are too precious and deserve better than that. Having a child is a tremendous event. If it is so important for you to have kids, than please find a man who wants kids just as much as you. Don’t waste your time trying to manipulate someone into having kids, or convince them, or even more horrifying, trick them into it. If someone has made the decision to not have kids likely those feelings won’t change with your badgering. It is selfish to pressure someone to have kids that doesn’t want any, and especially unfair to the child that springs out of something like that. Be careful, be very careful.
Sorry to CF people. I had to comment because it seems there are a lot of women on here commenting that want to have children, and their partner doesn’t and how unfair it is.
no you seem to be a good poster, and what you said it true.. i know of a similar thing.
i just dont see why ur hubbie doesnt get a vasectomy, its not that painful, and its over and done, but if you want a tubal.. fine.. but it should be his and your choice.
It annoys me when men don’t get vasectomies. I mean, COME ON people! Take responsibility for your own bodies! Especially, most especially, women who don’t want children.
Aphro, the term I’ve heard use for women who trick men is called “Oopsing.” It’s like, “Oops! Sorry honey! The birth control MUST have failed!” Uh huh. Sure. Do women really think men are THAT stupid? What an insult to men.
By the same token, I really have no pity for men who don’t take responsibility and make their decision firm by getting a vasectomy and then all of a sudden they’re “Oopsed.” If you don’t want a kid, take the necessary actions on your body to prevent *YOU* (regardless of whether you’re a man or a woman) from getting pregnant/getting someone else pregnant.
Aphro, you’re right, it is unfair. Then usually these women who “oopsed” those men will fight to the teeth for child support (usually just money) and try to deny these men a right to see their children (if the guys even want to – many times they end up do wanting to see them) when the marriage goes south and he leaves her for LYING to him.
Ladies, wanna-be-mommies, and those who have “Ooppsed” the fathers of their children: When you “oops” a man, or trick them as Aphro is saying, it’s called LYING. Whether you like to believe that or not. What a space to bring a kid into the world. Pretty messed up.
I have a cousin who “oopsed” her boyfriend in high school – for a stupid reason too: she thought ANOTHER of our cousins was going after him. Well, she got that baby who is now in her late teens, maybe even early 20’s (she is only 38) and no father. Oh, she’s got a man around, but both this guy and her life are train wrecks. *shudder*
You can see the resentment just beneath the layer with these men. It’s sad. But by the same token, men can also take responsibility with vasectomies and condoms. Also, this is why I’m all for a birth control pill for men too.
The Brit Girl, thank you for the note and the welcome.
it does annoy me that when a woman doesnt want a child, a cf woman, they usually say the man should have a vasectomy instead of her having the tubal.
yes i know its quicker, and healing time is less, but as you said people should take control of their own choices. if a man doesnt want a kid he should have a vasectomy, if the woman wants a tubal she shuld have it.. not pushing for the other one to have it( thats totally wrong in my opinion).
but being one of the male cfs, i can see where your coming from.. but i do think that everyone should be responsible for their OWN reproductive rights.
my rowan wants a tubal.. i have no problem, she wants it i didnt talk her into it.. her choice, and i am 100% behind her for that. i will even pay half.. later on i may have a vasectomy, but she says its my decision. and she will be behind my decision 100%. and thats how it should be
Children are blessings. Some people like children more than others. An intelligent mind like children.
Children are like little flowers with so much innocence. They are miracles in arms with so much joy to bring to parents. Their little fingers, cute little faces, randomly rolling eyes, small talk and so much more which fascinate someone but may not others. Their little cries, cute little faces, laughter, smiles, and much more.
They can turn a depress heart into a world of joy.
It is hardly understandable in present fast paced time.
Good luck woman. I hope your husband understand you. Since it will be more you than him who will and is probably ready to take care of the child, then I hope he will let you have another baby and probable many many as you want.
Best wishes to you and all the women who have posted their responses.
For Kareena,
I can wish you the best. God bless you and I hope your husband changes his mind regarding your wish to have a baby. Hope he will let you have bundle of joy to take care of properly.
Good wishes
of FFS annalee. are you saying the man has no rights, that the childfree are unintelligent.
you have bought into the claptrap, they are blessings, actually if you read the bible children are a punishment from god and so is the pain, children have original sin according to the bible.
they can turn a happy person into a depressed, smelly, bag of hysteria.
you annalee are sexist, so having a baby is all a man is good for,
she is just trotting out the same standard bullshit responses, look at the world 1/3rd are starving, millions are made homeless, some children have no parents, are unloved, are they worthless, is only your DNA worth anything at all.
annalee why are you here, to convert more of these women into the cult of baby, if any partner doesnt want kids, then that kid will be unwanted and abuses do occur. take your head out of your religious bent, and think about the world.
people like you annalee are the ones who have made the world into the mess it is today. by unrestrained breeding.
Annalee, why the hell are you spouting such crap about children? This is a childfree blog in case you haven’t noticed. You must be mistaking us for people who give a sh*t.
Breeder trolls again. . .
as a breeder troll goes, she is just a light weight. not even much fun..
I find myself in a situation where I wasn’t really fully on-board as far as having kids goes, but I wasn’t strong enough in my arguments either.
My wife wanted kids, and when we were dating I said that I wanted like 2 kids tops. Then, as the dating went on into engagement, I started saying that I wasn’t sure if I would ever want kids.
First few years of marriage we both talked about it some more, and she decided that she really didn’t want kids either, and I was mighty relieved. Yeah, I grew up in a house and church where “all kids are a blessing” and “every family needs kids!” and “the only way to fulfill yourself is with kids” blah blah blah. I didn’t know how to say that I didn’t agree, I figured that once I had a kid I would feel different, I figured all parents (at least all guys) felt the same as I did at first (that they really didn’t want to have kids) but that I would change my mind once the kid came, etc. I voiced to my wife that I didn’t feel any need to have kids, that I had no innate desire to have kids, that I was very happy without kids, but she persisted and said that she really wanted kids and such.
She never threatened, she didn’t hound me about it really, she didn’t force anything. I am at least as much to blame as her, since I finally agreed to it by saying “well, I have nothing really specifically AGAINST having kids, it’s not like I would hate them or anything”, and so I gave in.
Well, we just had our second (VERY much an “oops”, and not on her part either), and I am miserable. I take care of our kids (4 and newborn), I stay up late at night to feed/whatever, whatever a “good parent” would be expected to do I guess. But I don’t enjoy it, and it is hurting our relationship (my wife and I) a ton. We have like 30 minutes a day to see each other, we can’t do what we want when we want, we don’t have money for much of anything, I have no time for myself, nothing.
Basically, I get nothing positive out of having kids, and I made that evident before we had them. I guess I just didn’t think long and hard enough about it though, the fact that I would be getting every bit of the negatives out of the deal, and no positives. Now we have moved to be closer to family because of our kids, meaning I had to leave the job that I loved and my friends and my life to move to a place I don’t want to live and work in a place I hate.
Please, anyone who thinks they can change the mind of their spouse who doesn’t want kids, don’t even try. To me it wasn’t right to not want kids, I mean, who doesn’t love kids right? Kids are the sunshine of your lives, the fulfillment of all things good! Well, not everyone feels that way, but some husbands (or wives!) will talk themselves into having kids just like I did. They figure that everyone feels this way at first but once you ahve the kid it will all be alright. They figure that they should make the sacrifice for their spouse. They think that all families have kids.
Well, my marriage is in shambles now because I didn’t listen to myself and just went along with what I thought was right. My wife didn’t listen close enough to me either, or thought that I would be a good father even if I wasn’t 100% on board. She wasn’t pushy or deceitful or anything. But now I am crushed because I know that I am not being the father that my kids need, I am not being the husband that I should or want to be, and I have no idea what to do about it.
You married your spouse, not potential kids. Do you want your spouse to have to deal with the failure of not loving his kids like he knows he should? To suffer from the feelings of guilt because he made a decision to give in to something that can’t ever be taken back, and then be sorry for it for the next 20 years (or forever)? I want the best for my kids, and I know that I am not giving it to them, and probably am not capable of it. That is a horrible thing to go through.
sorry to hear about your situation, my sympathies are with you. i truly beleive that a lot of men, feel exactly the same as you, some women nag, some dont, society pressures as well..
and who is the real loser in these cases, the children, followed by the man, the courts the system is all focused on the children.
a lot of the comments on boards like this, and a few others only focus on what the woman wants, u had the courage to state the truth.
Chalmus, thank you for sharing your story here. It brings into life what we as childfree people so often say, but are derided for… that having children when both people are not on board has serious repercussions. I feel sad for you because you’re having to live through huge consequences of listening to yourself – including the guilt you must feel, and even sadder for your children.
This is a real cautionary tale. I hope people read and understand and for a change refuse to listen to society’s myths and lies. There is no crime in not wanting children. There is too big a cost in having them when you don’t really want them.
I hope other men read this and take note, because I believe this is something that, as Mercurior said happens much more than we think.
Thanks again for your courage in sharing with us.
I had never really heard of the official title of “childfree” before yesterday, but I certainly wish I had, say, 4 years ago. Hell, I thought I was a terrible person/father/husband for not wanting any more kids after the first one (and plenty of people agreed with my assessment, that that was a terrible thing).
Every time I ever used to think of my future, of OUR future (my wife’s and mine) together, I never pictured kids in it. Before our first son was born we used to go out all the time, just on walks or bikerides or to dinner or movies or out with friends or whatever. We had a lot of fun together. I know, money doesn’t buy happiness, but let me tell you, the LACK of money sure can bring a lot of stress and tension to a relationship.
Sure, I believe that some, even many, people change their minds once they have kids of their own. They maybe didn’t think they wanted kids, or didn’t think they liked kids, or whatever, but once they had one they were instantly in love and everything else. I’m sure it can and does happen. But NOT for everyone.
Having kids completely changes you and your relationship, and not always for the better as people would try and have you believe. You go from husband or wife to parent. Sure, you can plan date nights with your spouse still, you can schedule time to spend together, you can say that the focus of your marriage will still be on each other — but you’ll still be parents first and foremost.
In our case, we lost more than half of our income since my wife had a better job than I did. On top of that is the cost of all the clothes, food, toys, crib, diapers, whatever else. The biggest point to see about money I guess is that it is a very big lifestyle change.
For the first year or so of a child’s life you will be sleep deprived, you will have little to no time to be spend exclusively with your spouse, interaction with your child will be limited to looking at them adoringly, changing dirty diapers, feeding them, and trying to figure out why they are crying from 1am until 6am.
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out what the negatives or potential negatives are to having kids. The problem is, with people like me who get no innate, inborn positives out of the deal, those negatives are really really huge. Whenever I thought of my future, of what I wanted to do, I pictured my wife and I continuing to have fun, to go on vacations like we used to, not being tied down to home, still having time/friends/interests of our own to pursue, just, I don’t know, being a couple for the rest of our lives.
With small children (i.e. younger than 14-15), there is NO possible way that a couple can be good parents, a good husband/wife, AND a healthy individual all at the same time. I guess maybe some couples count parenting time as their couples time, but I don’t know. I just know that I won’t have my life back, my house back, my WIFE back, until I am 50 at the earliest. I’m not even quite 31 yet. I’ve resigned myself to either giving up myself or my relationship with my wife until then. For the last 4 years we had let our marriage slip, while we just took care of our kid and ourselves. Well, I was absolutely miserable with that situation, as I didn’t really sign up to be a single dad with a female roommate who never had any time or money or anything to do anything that he wanted. So now we’re going to try and work on our marriage while being parents, which means that I won’t have nearly as much time to spend with friends or by myself pursuing my own interests as I will want. Call me selfish, whatever.
I mourn for my former life, for my former marriage, for my former wife. I’ll never get them back. My choices are to either live out the best of my years miserable as a parent, or divorce the woman that I love, causing her and my kids (who I don’t hate remember) untold pain, and hope that I can find someone else to love and enjoy my life with.
Chalmus,
You are in an unfortunate situation. I hope that you don’t end up like most deadbeat dads and skipping out on your responsibilities to your children. Obviously you will do what you feel you must do.
But I think that you hit on something that most parents tend to forget. While children certainly are a priority, married parents tend to forget that it is their SPOUSE that they MUST have as a priority. Again, marriage vows are being completely forgotten.
What parents NEED to remember is their marriage vows: to forsake all others. (But then again, with so many people writing their own marriage vows, who knows if they’ve even taken that vow?) This means that their spouse becomes their #1 priority in their life: before their own parents, before their jobs, personal life, and yes, even before their own *children.* People conveniently forget that marriage vow.
Chalmus, I ask you to consider this: remind your wife of your vows to each other. Forsake all others – even your children. Make your marriage and each other your priority. It’ll be hard, but work on it.
This will do the following:
1) It will bring you two back together as a couple, man and woman, in marriage.
2) You two should remember that you’re a team on the same side.
3) Once you make each other and your marriage a priority, you will then be presented as a united front for your children. They will learn the meaning of a family unit that way, and they could then NEVER divide you and your wife.
So many parents forget to do this. I just went to a celebration of a 50th wedding anniversary. They had 7 children. The marriage wasn’t a bed of roses, it was WORK to keep their commitment to each other. But one thing is certain: they did not let *anyone,* not even their children, divide them.
Do what you will. Take up your responsibility to your WIFE (first!) and THEN your children, like a responsible *adult* does.
But then again, I’m neither a parent or married, so what do I know? *slash sarcasm*
CFSS,
I apologize if what I said came across to you as being childish, immature deadbeat dad talk and made you think that I was in need of being set straight about how to work a relationship. That was not my intent. I also didn’t mean to sound like someone who would have dismissed you out-of-hand because you are neither married nor have children.
I am well aware of my own shortcomings and the role that I played in getting myself into this mess. I have relationship issues that I am just coming to grips with now that I acquired from my upbringing — no blame being assigned, I know where I got them from, but they are my issues to deal with and solve now.
I shared my story first and foremost just to say that yeah, people do exist that for whatever reason decide to go ahead and have kids when they really didn’t want to. I wasn’t tricked, my wife didn’t “oops” me, I agreed mostly out of a belief that it was selfish and wrong of me to say no, and that once the kid came everything would be alright and I would end up loving him just like everyone said.
Who knows what could have been, but I think that if I had come across something like this blog 5-10 years ago it might have turned out differently for my wife and I. I wanted to share a story in the hopes that hey, maybe someone would read it and it would make them think twice before just going along.
And you are right, I will indeed do what I think is best. Every single human being does. I just don’t think that you need to assume that my best is to leave my family high and dry with no support or anything. My desire is to find a way to get the relationship that I want with my wife again, and to also enjoy my children and raise them as best I can, much better than I was raised.
I know the situation I am in. I know that I am to blame. I know that I am responsible to do with it the best I can, and believe me I am trying. But I also know that I would be infinitely happier to not have gotten myself into this situation in the first place, and if I can help someone at an earlier point in their life to avoid getting themselves into a similar situation, I will try to do just that.
no its not that chalmus, we hear a lot and i beleive they were just stating that you are unlike a lot of known men in your situation.
and i beleive cfss, didnt mean it that way. and generally we get other commentors here so its always best to write stuff so that more peeps can read it and know..
i am sure it wasnt personal.
mercurior is right. It wasn’t personal.
Chalmus, I can see, perhaps, where my tone may be a bit harsh, that was completely unintentional. My sincerest apologies on that.
I also did not mean to imply that you were a deadbeat dad, or may even be one. I used that term to drive home the point that many men do try to abdicate their responsibilities as parents, that is all.
And as for my last line, it wasn’t necessarily directed at you, Chalmus, although I can see how it can be taken that way. It’s just that so many who are childfree hear that tired old line from parents that since we’re not parents (or if we’re not married), we couldn’t possibly know anything and have no words of wisdom to impart. That’s all that I meant by that. I hope that you can see that now.
Chalmus, really…you sound incredibly humbled by your situation and that you are doing the best you can. I also appreciate the fact that what you posted definitely shows how “oopsing” a man there is the possibility that those women (who do do that, or who simply have a child anyway regardless of their husband’s feelings), are simply making their husbands miserable. But then they don’t care, I’m sure, if their children (and not their spouses or marriage) is their priority.
I meant no ill or harsh judgement. I was making suggestions to expand on your point. Your post simply gave me the opportunity to post those thoughts I’ve had for a while.
So, peace, dude. Really.
I’m 45 and pregnant with my 5th child. My husband does not want another child. When I was 42 I got pregnant but had a miscarriage at 4.5 months. My husband told me then (after the miscarriage) he didn’t want anymore kids and was going to get an vasectomy because he didn’t want anymore kids. He didn’t get snipped. That was 3 years ago. Now I find myself pregnant again! I would like this child as I don’t believe abortion is for me and never will be. Maybe someone else but not me. What should I do? I go along hoping this child will be “normal” and my husband will change his mind. I’m not him, I can’t make up his mind for him. Just wondering why he didn’t get snipped, it contradicts what he says. What will I do if I have this baby? Will my husband accept it and love it? I don’t know.
Mountain Girl. You’re on the wrong blog. Read the comments on this blog (or bother to read the post and other posts on this blog) and you’ll get a flavour of our Childfree perspective, in which lies your answer.
I think you’ll keep on breeding, as you seem unable to take responsibility for your breeding actions. I’m not sure what you’re looking for here, but whatever it is I doubt you’ll find it. I personally could care less that you’re on your 5th child…. this is A CHILD-FREE blog. To be blunt, I also don’t want you cluttering up relevant, helpful and useful contributor comments with breeder tales.
← Previous Comments
Comments on this entry are closed.