::sarcasm off well only a slight sarcasm::

This would have worked out much better for everyone involved if the smoking issue was left up to individual bar owners who know their patrons, and what they want.

You can find somebody that can make an argument for or against the stupidity of ANY choice, no matter how ludicrous that choice might be. (e.g. listening to James Blunt, voting Tory, or Cannibalism).

The point I was trying to make to mosh is the phrase ‘stupid life choice’, I found resentful. Stupid I am not. Obesity will be the highest killer in 20 years if you had a weight problem and I saw you eating a burger would it be right for me to tell you of your stupid life choice and advise you to go to the gym and watch your diet like I do? No I don’t think people would appreciate that, as I do not appreciate being told how stupid I am even though I know smoking is extremely bad for me it’s the choice I made.

I compared it to being CF because it annoys all of us when we have a parent who thinks the CF life choice is stupid we all go on the defensive. I was not comparing it on health grounds!

Back to the smoking ban, I do not like it but I have accepted it. I can understand why non-smokers want the ban and I have happily gone outside since the ban as I do not smoke in the house so I do not find it a huge deal. I also have never smoked in restaurants even when we could as I always thought that would be unfair to others and rude.

or drive in your car if its for work purposes.. it says ANY work place. so if you are at home, and are doing some home work. then you could be fined.. thats the thin end of the wedge.

but i can see that no one is going to change their minds, but just wait in 10 to 15 years and we will see what else is changed “for the sake of the children”

Smoking is unhealthy and unpleasant. Staff have had no choice but to breathe in smoke that can endanger their own health. As RMS said, workers have the right to breathe smoke free air.

I worked for a year (years ago) where the whole office was smoking and having to suffer for that year until I couldn’t stand it and changed jobs. That year was horrible but that was my job until I found another. I know that where you have smokers outnumbering the non-smokers, they would carry the vote.

Why should we endanger our health so they can indulge their addiction?

Smokers can still smoke… in their homes or outside. If they want to go out and enjoy a pint or socialise they’re going to have to adapt so that we can all breathe the air.

Christine MB - Actually I don’t agree it’s the same thing as a CF choice….My being childfree doesn’t harm anyone at all. Smoking does - not only does it harm the smoker, but potentially everyone around them. At the very least it is an irritant to non smokers or those trying to quit.
And isn’t it a stupid choice to do something that is so harmful (and disgusting) that it could kill you? Or make you ill? Or to become addicted so that one can’t function without it?
Maybe it’s more of a death choice

if i had a private members club, where all the staff smoke, and all the people who are members smoke, then shouldnt they all be allowed to smoke. but no, in america there are cigar clubs, they are exempt.

wouldnt it be better, fairer for workers who smoke, and the people who do smoke have smokers pubs. and if people dont want to smoke, have non smokers pubs..

sorry but I that’s a bit sharpe, that’s like saying being CF is a stupid life choice , just because it happens not to be your life choice.

It just boggles the mind!

that would have been fairer (and this isnt a go at anyone, just stating what i think, i am not insulting or anything, just trying to be fair to everyone)

And if we are talking about rights then we must also mention responsibilities.

Incidentally, music that is above the approved decibel limit for non-disturbance within certain times should be banned. They get the noise pollution police on that one. That means I don’t have to be kept awake during the wee hours so someone exercise their “right” to play their stereo so loudly at their party so that my entire apartment and contents shake ;). But let’s not go there, as it’ll take this off-topic.

Angela - I take it for granted!

oh for the sake of the children route. wont someone think of the children, we have to obey things that take your choice from you. is that freedom, i dont think so. freedom of choice isnt just one small subject its massive, and affects everyone, and the moment, any freedom is taken away from anyone. whether its the right to go out and smoke, to the right to have an abortion, makes you and me and everyone else, slaves to the state. without the rights and freedoms therein.

thats the danger and thats the problem. they will ban more things, count on it.

legislation can remove rights. one group will always be less well off than another. and it isnt a criminal act, only a civil act.

its like them banning all abortion, no one forces (maybe a few) into having them, its about personal choice. if a pub wants to have a smoking pub then let them all the people will know and its their choice.. their decision their life. if non smokers want a pub then let them have one.

thats the more equitable thing, but its not about that at all, its about power.

No doubt they will congregate in the doorways, like those workers on their ciggie breaks. But at last, at LAST, the ability to breathe in one less carcinogen, the right to be able to go out for a meal and not to breathe in another’s smoke!

I agree with Mosh, smokers will adapt. And sorry Mercurior I don’t believe for one minute that smokers pay for all our health, all our education and the like. If anything they, with their triple heart bypasses and lung cancers and emphysema they are a drain on the health service.

If business drops initially while smokers sulk or find somewhere else to indulge that should be expected. It will go back up in a few years. But we have just come back from a smoke-free evening out and the place was very busy - and it was early.

Like Rebbecca says, every one is going to squeal that their business is gone or going (now we don’t have smokers). I’m pretty sure the Consortium of businesses had their chance to weigh in. They need to find ways of attracting new custom and ways to make business will go back up. Relying on people who are addicted smoking… there’s something not right there.

Mosh - I agree.

Victor - Can’t see alcohol being banned just yet, can you? Although arguably it does a lot more damage than cigarrettes. And as for fats being banned.. isn’t that “transfats”?

Christine MB - you have a point there. On the other hand, if children of smokers were allowed to go, then maybe there’ll be a “net result?”

Mel - apparently second-hand smoke is more dangerous. I used to work in an office where the people on either side of me smoked. It was awful. I was breathing in second-hand smoke for well over a year one of the girls was a chain smoker - nothing I could do about it. I stank of smoke every day. I was so glad to leave that place..

Kath I hear ya!
Phoena -It is a major turn off. I know that my husband quit smoking because he wanted us to be together and I wasn’t interested in being together with a smoker. it was a deal breaker. As he says now, “you do what to have to do.” But he tends to stay out of the smoke/non smoker dialogue - because he knows a lot of ex-smokers really smug about the fact that they are now “ex” and he dislikes that.

Dave… Thank you… what can I say…you made my day. In fact, I’ve been grinning since this morning when I read your comment… I hope you’re not going to remove the link pic though ;).

heres some world wide stories about bans causing loss of money, loss of jobs, and loss of community.

hows this for one in canada

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/montreal/story.html?id=e2797d1c-9aec-485a-b259-180960e8fb2d&k=13096
Montreal Gazette - Montreal,Quebec,Canada
07/15/2006

The 1,500 bar owners who responded to the survey reported a 30-per-cent drop in revenues from alcohol sales, video-poker terminals, pool tables and food since the no-smoking rules went into effect May 31, Sergakis said.

At least 478 full- and part-time jobs have been cut, he added.

“Just wait for winter - the effect will be double,” he said. “People won’t want to go outside to smoke in minus 30C.”

http://www.bismarcktribune.com/articles/2006/11/28/news/state/124638.txt

Officials said bingo parlor revenue dropped after the smoking ban went into effect in August 2005, but the parlor still had to pay more than $100,000 in state taxes for the fiscal year that ended June 30 of this year.

how about this one

http://www.fifetoday.co.uk/ViewArticle.aspx?SectionID=1015&ArticleID=1670524

Jim Paul, President of the Fife United Clubs’ Association, reacted angrily to an NHS Fife spokesman’s comments that the clubs’ concerns were “silly.” He said: “The health board are talking verbal diarrhoea. “Obviously they have never been in a club to see what life is like as we are feeling the bite and losing up to £2000 a month.”

how about this

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Edmonton/2006/08/24/1774615.html

During the first full year of the puffing ban – which kicked in July 1, 2005 – the nearly 600 charities that run bingos in the Edmonton area made $6.1 million, down from $12.9 million a year earlier, according to provincial figures obtained by the Sun. That represents a whopping 53% drop.

During the past year, bingo profits in the rest of Alberta – where smoking is generally still permitted – dropped only 1%.

and this

http://www.thisisguernsey.com/code/showarchive.pl?ArticleID=000970&year=2006&category=news

They say that trade has been decimated during its first month.
Many smokers furious at the ban have already boycotted pubs and vowed not to return.

Mariners’ Inn licensee Tina Power said that, contrary to what Health minister Peter Roffey and other deputies predicted, non-smokers have not frequented more.
‘Our July takings are the equivalent of a wet, cold and miserable January month. Is this what we should be experiencing in July?’ she said.

I think perhaps a review of this should be taken into account because is that not why 200 pubs have closed down in Ireland?