He isn’t childfree but…
I found this interesting thread in a Google search. I am posting the original message in it’s entirety with the link back to Men’s Issues, because I think it’s well worth a good read – and I’d like as many people to read it as possible. For that reason this article is rather long – so be warned. Although I’ve posted Bazahuma’s very well written forum post here, I encourage you to go over to Men’s Issues and read the responses. The discussion there is very interesting…
Bazahuma says
“I’m 47 and married to my second wife who is 38. We’ve been together for 9 years and married for almost 5. I have a daughter who is 13 from the first marriage. I love my daughter in absolute terms. She spends half of her time with us, has known my wife since she was 3 and they adore each other. All together we, as a family, have a great relationship.
Here’s the issue and sadly I imagine it’s been heard many times. Before my current wife and I even started getting serious I told her that I absolutely did not want to have any more children; which she stated was not a problem for her. She had a career she was working on launching and didn’t think pregnancy and babies would ever fit into her schedule. Prior to her moving in with me, almost two years into our relationship we had another sit-down discussion about children where I expressed absolutely no desire to have any more children and that if she thought for a moment that she wanted kids then I wasn’t the right guy for her and to be fair to herself, to me, and my daughter she should find someone who shares the same desires.
She told me at the time that because we had my daughter with us half-time, who looked up to her as a mother in many ways, she was quite content. When we got engaged to be married 6 years ago once again we had a serious discussion about all sorts of issues including children. Again I gave her as easy an out as possible by telling her very specifically that if she wanted children I would never want to deny her that special experience and would encourage her whole heartedly to find a man who wants children. She confirmed a shared view that we weren’t going to have any so to the alter we went.
Fast forward to the present: Very happily married for almost 5 years. Life is good. My (our) daughter has a great head on her shoulders and is a pleasure to be with and I’m already thinking about the day I won’t be paying child support to the ex who doesn’t need it (but insists I pay). Also I’m day dreaming about the other opportunities that will avail themselves as the nest empties out, maybe as soon as 5 or 6 years from now. Like downsizing the house a bit, changing jobs to something that may pay less but is more enjoyable and much less stressful, etc. etc. Then one day recently my wife dropped a bomb on me. She tells me she really does want to have a kid.
I can hardly believe my ears. I reminded her about our several very frank discussions about our future and the fact that we agreed there would be no more children. She had the gall to tell me that she thought I would change my mind. I have no intention of changing my mind for a lot of reasons. All I can see now is that our marriage is doomed. If I capitulated (which I won’t) and had a kid with her I would resent her for the rest of my life. I know that. If I don’t have a kid with her, knowing now she wants one, she will resent me for the rest of her days. Either way, someone loses and our relationship will develop a cancer that I’m sure will eventually kill it. We are going to try counseling but personally I see no way to compromise on this issue.
I’m really sick from this. If this goes the way I think it will my daughter is going to suffer terribly from her dishonesty, losing a mother figure she has known all of her life; I’m going to lose a great relationship with a wonderful woman; and she may or may not get what she wants out of life if she can’t find someone to have a baby with pretty soon (She is 38). Everybody’s F’d!
Here on Like It Is we’ve discussed through the issue of one partner (namely the man) not wanting kids when the other (namely the woman) wants them. At least one of those conversations is still going – complete with bree parents and wanna-be parents gushing about the joys of motherhood/parenthood, generously offering their opinion on what BAAD parents we’d make because WE childfree folk can’t understand why they feel that what they want should override a man’s unwillingness to parent. That they spout on a childfree blog is a bit of a mystery, because they’d get so much more sympathy on the muffia blogs, but hey, they’re on a mission to try make us see the error of our ways. Sigh. Such a waste of time, really.
The key thing is in many (but by no means all) cases the mommies who want more kids and the mommies in waiting who want to start having kids don’t understand why their need for a child cannot immediately override anyone else’s (namely their husband or partner) desire to stay either childfree or content with the children that they’ve already created. The issue of discussion before marriage has come up. In this case, there was full and frank discussion disclosure. Alas. She changed the rules. But what do you know?
She thought he would change his mind!! Does this mean that she never really believed him in the first place when he said he didn’t want any more kids? Or that she did and she dismissed his feelings?
When it comes to being childfree, we know that the men aren’t totally spared the crap that women get. We know they get pressured to reproduce. It’s just that it seems that the spotlight is generally fully on women. We’re an easier target. Then again, I feel that when it comes to being a parent, the only voice that seems to carry any weight is that of the woman. Men are supposed to just go along, fall into step because their wife wants a child. Not doing so can mean a living hell. Or the withdrawal of everything that made life fun. Men are supposed to have children to make them “grow up,” “be a man,” be “responsible..” Or so we’re told.
At any rate, I like to hear the men’s voices, whether this is on being childfree or their struggle against the unforgiving “biological clock.” in the face of a reluctance to have kids. Whether this is to remain childfree or to increase the brood.
In Bazahuma’s case it sadly looks as if the marriage isn’t going to survive this.
Since it seemed such a happy one, this is a shame, but becoming a parent when you don’t want to isn’t the way to go. It isn’t fair to the child. And it isn’t fair to the man.
I wonder how many marriage breakdowns are the result of one partner not wanting kids?
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2nd time, you are NOT crazy!
You may want to evaluate if you even want to be with your current wife.
I am a woman who is adamantly childfree. I have had a tubal ligation as soon as I could (early 30’s – tried at 19, no one would touch me – GRRR!) and have known since I was 6 years old (my earliest memories of my life) that I did not want children. No reason at all, I just Do. Not. Want. Children.
You said,
This makes me SO VERY ANGRY. I *hate* when people do this. I don’t understand how people just cannot accept what people say. You told your wife SEVERAL times, in writing no less, that you did not want children. IME, it’s usually *women* who think they can change men’s minds. And that makes me angry at the majority of the people of my gender.
2nd time, I feel for you. Truely. It’s as if this person lied to you and now you’re questioning your whole relationship. Rather than wait for her to take action, consider taking action yourself. Don’t let her try to pin the blame on you for her depression. It’s not your fault. It’s all on her.
This is to both you and ophelianot: I’m angry for you two. You built a relationship based on certain ideals and what you thought were the same goals – only to have one you (your partners) change their minds. But me, personally? I would much rather be alone than suffer through a relationship with my partner trying to decide whether he wanted children, or wondering whether he would leave me for someone who wanted kids.
I’m in a long term committed relationship. Before we even started dating I told him my decision was firm, final, non-negotiable, not up for discussion, and that I have been sterilyzed. (It’s my body. I’d be the one pregnant, I needed to take responsibility for it.) So, he knows. He also knows I don’t like children. I have told him if he ever decides he wants children (he doesn’t – which is why I am with him) to please let me know and we’ll go our separate ways. If that were to happen (which I doubt, he dislikes children as much as I do) I’d certainly be very sad, no doubt. But I’d rather be alone than go through the torment of being with someone who was unhappy and try to blame me for their unhappiness when they weren’t honest and lied by saying they didn’t want children.
My 47 year old sister is “trapping” her live-in boyfriend ( who used to be her boss) by becoming pregnant. She’s going for that big money.
Boy friend won’t marry her because he saw what she did to her previous husband! She got pregnant cause 1st husband didn’t want to get married.
Sister is sociopathic.
She has two kids by her x husband. Put’s him thru hell.
Her life is a example of how not to be for 2 teenage boys.
My husband and I do not have children. We have been married for 16 years.
The ectopic pregnancy I had in ‘93 nearly killed me. So sometimes you really don’t have a choice! In retrospect I am glad I listened to the little voice telling me to let it go. When it comes to kids family matters are strange.
My mother could have cared less about my ectopic.
Never even came to the hospital.
My experience is that “mother” wants her grandchildren…..she does not give a crap about you personally- just give her the immortality of offpring. Both of my sisters have given her legacy. Now I am the person who “wouldn’t know” because I don’t have kids. Not a member of the Momclub. My mother is living hell to deal with. She’s a 2 faced backstabber, and does not value me because I do not have children. Loves the sociopathic daughter though.
She’s making money just being a high class hoe.
I hope someday all her bad Karma eats her dogma.
So life on the other side is not fair as well.
Luckily my youngest sister is a great example of what family should be.
Count your blessings and move on…..really move on.
Get the nasty bitches out of your life…they don’t deserve your energy.
Kids are great, the rest of the family can be the problem!
ophelianot,
Me too. Almost exactly.
Married 20 years, together for 24. I told him before our marriage that I did not want kids and he was fine with that. I found out last year that he would have liked kids, in his posts to an online forum for runners, of all places. He never told me. This sent me straight into counseling and really disrupted my life and productivity for several months. I also wonder whether he will resent me for not having kids. I asked him once recently, and he could not guarantee that he would not. My conscience is clear because recently, and also early in our marriage, I told him that I would have a kid if he would be the primary parent. He said no. Still, I would hate to make him unhappy or to lose him. The whole thing makes me insecure about our marriage in a way I never was before. I see no good solution.
Liz – we are always worrying about how we don’t want to make anyone else unhappy. Even if it means our own unhappiness. We can choose not to. But what about his responsibility to ensure you aren’t made unhappy by his resentment real or imagined. In fact he should be going out of his way to ensure you are reassured. Yes, he may want children – so what?
We all would have liked things that we cannot have. But given he was amply aware that wasn’t an issue he has no right to make you feel guilty or doubtful. He can absolutely guarantee that he won’t feel resentful towards you – if he can just get out of his self absorbed cave and be a husband. He wasn’t even prepared to be the primary caregiver, and that makes me wonder exactly what he does want. But that’s neither here nor there.
He has control over what he chooses to feel or not feel. He should be worrying about losing you. Not the other way around.
Hi Britgirl, Thanks for your comments!
The situation is hard to gauge – we simply do not discuss the child issue at all, so I have no clue how he feels. I do not want to pester him about the topic when I would rather let sleeping dogs lie.
I do think he tries to reassure me in his day-to-day behaviour, which is loving. His reluctance to be the primary parent stems from his reluctance to produce a kid who is not wanted by both parents. (If I actually wanted a kid, I think he might agree to be the primary parent. Not that he has any clue about how much work is involved!)
BTW, thank you for developing and maintaining this website.
Yep, I have a problem too.
I found my soul mate, I mean we are peas and carrots!
She is non materialistic, beautiful, moral and a all around great person.
When we meet 7 years ago, she asked if I would have a kid.
I said sure, but not now! I have 3 kids from a previous marriage & it has been hell, one kid is in juve, the other in foster care, and the other lives with us (he is doing great). I feel worn out, legal battles, custody issues, psycho ex-wife, you know…honestly I can say I really do not want a kid! It has gone the other way from thinking that might be O.K.. to the whole idea makes me sick.
The problem is it is time to pay up. My wife wants a kid. Should I do what I said I would do? Should I tell my wife no? I have a vasectomy so no surprises.
I could tell her that the vasectomy cant be reversed (which might be true), I could try to weasel out of it, the problem is I would know and I consider myself a moral person & besides a lie is always uncovered.
Signed, at a loss.
why not tell her what has gone on.. you couldnt give as much time to any potential kid.
talk to her tell your reasonings, if she is as moral as non materialisitic tell her what you put on here.
if she does have a child her entire personality will change, why should you be a miserable father, and possibly take it out on that child especially if it was like your last ones. Talk to her
First, I have to admit that I have not read all 50-odd comments before me. However, I have one thing and one thing to say. A persons fertility is the responsability of that person. In other words, and this will maybe seen as harsh, but this guy should have decided to get a vasectomy when he realised that he didn’t want children (probably before he even met his current wife).
If he had got a vasectomy, he would not have to bother about an ‘oops’ coming along and also he would made a statement to the world that he is not wanting any more children.
Yes, I’m a guy who has had a vasectomy, many years ago (was single at the time) effectively told any woman I dated that I was not going to have children. Vasectomy reversal is not totally effective.
I feel sorry for the guy, but he should get snipped now before things turn out worse…
yes, its a persons responsiblity for birth control unfortunatly, some places need a wifes signature or “permission” but this couold just be a misinterpretation of the forms. which is exactly the same as the form that allows a women have a tubal.
then theres the other side, on other childfree boards my wife says she wants a tubal, she wants to be slshed and burned, now that her choice, i have been told that i shouldnt let her do that, it should be me that does it. (i will get one eventually once everythings settled but she is first), essentially putting the onus on me.. when it should be about the personal choice about your body.
Thank you mercurior.
My 10 year old was yelling and screaming last night because he could not have ice cream. He is a really good kid, I mean as good as a kid can be. I love him, will always be a good dad but I am tired. Kids have drained me financially and emotionally. Again, I am a good dad, I have to be & it is my responsibility since I helped bring them into the world but I want no more!
I wrote a long letter of my concerns to my wife with these points.
A) We cant afford a child at this time.
If we have a kid, she would not work until it goes to school.
We would loose her income and I would have to pay for her and the kids insurance + our cost of living would go up.
B) The reversal has a 30% success rate after 7 years and costs over 12,000.
C) I am tired of living for other people. My whole life I did what was expected and the right thing to do.
(That is why I married my first psycho wife at 19 when we became prego).
D) The world does not need more people. We are a parasite on this earth.
I also believe it is going to be a rough go for the next generation.
E) I may become really pissed off at my wife or god forbid the new kid.
By doing what is expected of me, and what is not right for me.
All of these justifications for not having a kid sounds rightjous.
The kicker is, it will likely cost me the love of my life.
My 10 year old has a good life and a great step mom.
I will never find a woman like her again.
It will not be painful, it will be crushing for both of us.
Thanks for the advice all. I will keep you posted.
(When I have the guts to present the letter).
Present the letter, your points are valid and you have to trust your feelings. I could not imagine the damage it woud have done to my husband if he did not express his desire to be CF. I think it is actually bringing us closer, if it is possible. Also, have more faith in your partner. She may decide life with you is the best part of life. But do give her time & space, she will have to do a lot of soul searching and redefine herself as an individual.
but be aware that she may have her own justifications for each of your answers. so just make sure you know what she MAY say)
Putting myself in her mind so to speak, i can answer your comments.
A) but we will find the money, (if she is religious its god will provide) or we can afford it i can go back to work after and.. etc
B) but theres a chance we can have a baby, so have one, and we will see. (theidea to have a child will over ride a lot of womens thoughts)
C)ah but it will be different with me, i will look after it and you wont have to do anything.
D) but your child could cure cancer
E) but you will love it when its your own. when you first hold it.
this is a rough answer to what she MAY or MAY NOT say
i would read this 101 reasons not to have children, this is full of sarcastic comments mostly by me ;-0. but it shows some of the mentality of their justifications and forrwarned is forarmed
http://www.thecfcouple.proboards37.com/index.cgi?board=guestrant&action=display&thread=1142033616&page=1
Thanks mercurior.
I appreciate your opinions & the possible rebuttle..
Your web link is right on.
Fortunately we are from a deist mind set versus the religious dogma.
(I wondered why all those guys wore robes around the kids!) Ha ha!
Sorry for the negative, (not really but since religion is such a mind bender I should say that, least someone may go into a blind rage & feel guilty that they may go to hell for being so angry).
I think the plan will be to place my son with relatives for a weekend, present my points & discuss it with her on a Friday then leave for the weekend so she can figure things out.
I will let her know that if she decides that things will not work out because of this, I will move out of the house when I return.
Pretty damn scary…
yes but it gives you an argument, and opens your mind to their justification this is quite a good non theistic reasons. you just need to be aware of the need for these people to have children they will use any reason, to get what they want..
we call it sometimes baby rabies,and the extreme cases can lead to some very bad practices, not that i am saying she will, but..
http://familywellness.blogspot.com/2005/02/reasons-not-to-have-children.html
I know I’m late to this discussion but I have similar dilemas.
I’ve split from 2 partners already because they wanted kids and I didnt.
My current partner has known from the start I’m really not keen on kids but I suppose because I’m 95% sure I don’t she hopes the 5% will win and I’ll change my mind.
We’re getting to the agent now where it’s decision time ( her biological clock has just a few years to run! ).
I know if I refuse to have children that will be the end of yet another relationship due to me not wanting kids. Now I’m 40 I can’t help but feel my realistic options are either a relationship + kids or being alone for the rest of my life ( but no kids ).
Very depressing situation – I lose either way!
There are childfree women out there, perhaps you need to speak to her about your decision. let her know that you can spend time with her, because you dont have kids.
One person i knew took his girlfriend out to a nice restaurant, great meal, afterwards good fun. then said in the morning, well if we were to have kids. we wouldnt go out, do anything. whtat do you think about that.
at least it will give her a good nite, and maybe change her mind. if not its a cushioned blow if there is a split.
You know, what makes you happy, if you cave into a demand for children it will NOT, be good for you.
Good luck.
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