Comments on: Childfree - And No Children To Fund http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/ The Interests of a Childfree Brit Living in Toronto Thu, 04 Dec 2008 19:39:03 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5 By: og217 http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-14152 og217 Wed, 13 Aug 2008 17:40:23 +0000 http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-14152 I see this all the time too - people who not only feel that they are owed a college degree ($40K a year, plus room and board and expenses, of course) but then expect that their parents will pay for a masters degree as well. Plus a car - everyone has one! It really does completely debunk the idea that the children will take care of the parents. When exactly? By the time these children amass their 25 PhD degrees and finally accept a job offer - everything is totally beneath them - they don't want an entry-level position, nothing lower than a VP will do! the parents are what, dead? Its not like most children would really take their parents and have them move in once they get old. Their spouses won't have that, and their own children will cost so much time and money, they will not be able to help their parents. Its just nuts. I think this arguement - that children are your retirement insurance - is the most ridiculous. There is no "deal" and no enforceable contract and children do not have to do squat for their parents. And what most do is not nearly enough to compensate for 30 years of hard labor and half a million dollars! So, whatever - your kid will visit you in your nursing home every Christmas and call for 10 minutes on a Sunday. Big whoop. Give up my youth, looks, marital bliss, finances, career, happiness, 30 years worth of time, vacation, great food and sex for THAT? Please. I see this all the time too - people who not only feel that they are owed a college degree ($40K a year, plus room and board and expenses, of course) but then expect that their parents will pay for a masters degree as well. Plus a car - everyone has one! It really does completely debunk the idea that the children will take care of the parents. When exactly? By the time these children amass their 25 PhD degrees and finally accept a job offer - everything is totally beneath them - they don’t want an entry-level position, nothing lower than a VP will do! the parents are what, dead? Its not like most children would really take their parents and have them move in once they get old. Their spouses won’t have that, and their own children will cost so much time and money, they will not be able to help their parents. Its just nuts. I think this arguement - that children are your retirement insurance - is the most ridiculous. There is no “deal” and no enforceable contract and children do not have to do squat for their parents. And what most do is not nearly enough to compensate for 30 years of hard labor and half a million dollars! So, whatever - your kid will visit you in your nursing home every Christmas and call for 10 minutes on a Sunday. Big whoop. Give up my youth, looks, marital bliss, finances, career, happiness, 30 years worth of time, vacation, great food and sex for THAT? Please.

]]> By: Athena http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-8853 Athena Wed, 29 Aug 2007 22:01:09 +0000 http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-8853 My mum for some odd reason didn't WANT me to leave EVER! I wanted to leave since I was 15, she wanted me to stay! Once I said to her, what if I'm still living here when I'm 30 or 40? She was like so what? What's wrong with THAT? I had four years of university too and when I was made redundant before that dad insisted I work for him for a while! Plus I had to pay off a car. Plus there were family problems cos of my brother and mum said she couldn't face BOTH of us moving out!! and needed me! Well at 26 I tried to move out but it didn't work out and at 28 I moved out and went to live and work on the other side of the world! I had mum's blessing and she's pleased I'm doing this but I think having me at home for so long in a way makes it easier for her now cos she had a lot of time with me. However, I worry a little about her babysitting more and more for my brother. I mean, she and dad should be able to do their own thing now - which they do a lot more - and I don't want them to be taken advantage of by having to spend a lot of free time babysitting. Because I don't think she enjoys it that much from things she's said. But then again, I could be wrong! So it's not always the kids fault in a way!!! But on the other hand, YES I am VERY pleased I am childfree for numerous reasons but one of these is that there's not always a cut-off point at 18!! And sometimes when you're done looking after the kids, the GRANDCHILDREN come along! My mum for some odd reason didn’t WANT me to leave EVER! I wanted to leave since I was 15, she wanted me to stay! Once I said to her, what if I’m still living here when I’m 30 or 40? She was like so what? What’s wrong with THAT? I had four years of university too and when I was made redundant before that dad insisted I work for him for a while! Plus I had to pay off a car. Plus there were family problems cos of my brother and mum said she couldn’t face BOTH of us moving out!! and needed me!
Well at 26 I tried to move out but it didn’t work out and at 28 I moved out and went to live and work on the other side of the world!
I had mum’s blessing and she’s pleased I’m doing this but I think having me at home for so long in a way makes it easier for her now cos she had a lot of time with me.
However,
I worry a little about her babysitting more and more for my brother. I mean, she and dad should be able to do their own thing now - which they do a lot more - and I don’t want them to be taken advantage of by having to spend a lot of free time babysitting. Because I don’t think she enjoys it that much from things she’s said. But then again, I could be wrong!
So it’s not always the kids fault in a way!!!
But on the other hand, YES I am VERY pleased I am childfree for numerous reasons but one of these is that there’s not always a cut-off point at 18!!
And sometimes when you’re done looking after the kids, the GRANDCHILDREN come along!

]]> By: mercurior http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-8582 mercurior Fri, 24 Aug 2007 19:27:13 +0000 http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-8582 you did well by your son, i do not discount that. in some cases there are other reasons why they dont get a job, not because they are lazy, they may not have found the right job. or whatever.. he may be stealing for attention, i am not a psychologist, i think your doing the right thing, you gave him a chance, and he messed it up. yes get all the details about housing, give them to him, and say there is a time for you to live on your own, we will be here to talk to you, but you dont want to end up like your dad, we know its so easy to get into alcohol and think your better than anyone. but maybe you should say well this is the last time you will help, and if you end up in prison, then it is your choice, your decision.. i know i am not your son, and i know you love him a lot, but sometimes you have to say enough is enough.. its love, but its tough love you did well by your son, i do not discount that.

in some cases there are other reasons why they dont get a job, not because they are lazy, they may not have found the right job. or whatever..

he may be stealing for attention, i am not a psychologist, i think your doing the right thing, you gave him a chance, and he messed it up.

yes get all the details about housing, give them to him, and say there is a time for you to live on your own, we will be here to talk to you, but you dont want to end up like your dad, we know its so easy to get into alcohol and think your better than anyone.

but maybe you should say well this is the last time you will help, and if you end up in prison, then it is your choice, your decision..

i know i am not your son, and i know you love him a lot, but sometimes you have to say enough is enough.. its love, but its tough love

]]> By: Margit http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-8561 Margit Fri, 24 Aug 2007 14:09:26 +0000 http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-8561 My son is 25 years old and grew up with an alcoholic father who died 5 years ago from Hep C. Basically, he drank himself to death. I know my son has issues because of this. I feel that my son has no one but me to rely on. I struggle with this issue of helping him because I feel bad about what he has gone through with his Dad. Last year for quite some time he lived in his car. At least 3 or 4 months. When the temperatures got to freezing at night I felt like I had to do something. He never asked me for help. I offered it. The idea is that we live in a bigger town and he would be able to get a job pretty easily, save his money and move out. He did get a job and was accepted for the transitional housing program through the Methodist Church. It's a 2 year program designed to help people who have had a hard time getting their acts together. They only have to work, pay their bills and keep the place clean. He has a case worker who checks on him weekly. So, things went well for about 2.5 months and he got into trouble for petty theft. Stole a stick of deoderant. What the hell, I say. What is he thinking. If he needed deoderant I would have given it to him. So, he got into lots of trouble. He hasn't had a job since July except for about 2 weeks. I can't believe he can't find a job if he truly wants one. Meanwhile I've paid his child support so he doesn't go to jail for non payment. I pay his car insurance so he doesn't get in trouble for not having it. I pay for his phone because he can't get called back for job opportunities if he doesn't have a phone. It seems like an endless vicious circle. I've finally told him that by the end of September job or no job he is on his own financially. My husband and I are going backwards financially and I would not like to have to work until I'm dead. This makes me crazy though because I love my son so much. Intellectually I know he needs to get a clue and become a functioning member of society. He's been offered counselling. According to him there's nothing wrong with him. He is on antidepressants. For a little over a month now. Don't have a clue if he's really taking them. Intellectually, I know I have done all I can for him and that he needs to get real and get on with it. The gooey mom side of me says what if something horrible happens because I haven't helped him. What kind of mom would let that happen. Arrggghh! Words of wisdom? Margit My son is 25 years old and grew up with an alcoholic father who died 5 years ago from Hep C. Basically, he drank himself to death. I know my son has issues because of this.

I feel that my son has no one but me to rely on. I struggle with this issue of helping him because I feel bad about what he has gone through with his Dad. Last year for quite some time he lived in his car. At least 3 or 4 months. When the temperatures got to freezing at night I felt like I had to do something. He never asked me for help. I offered it. The idea is that we live in a bigger town and he would be able to get a job pretty easily, save his money and move out. He did get a job and was accepted for the transitional housing program through the Methodist Church. It’s a 2 year program designed to help people who have had a hard time getting their acts together. They only have to work, pay their bills and keep the place clean. He has a case worker who checks on him weekly.

So, things went well for about 2.5 months and he got into trouble for petty theft. Stole a stick of deoderant. What the hell, I say. What is he thinking. If he needed deoderant I would have given it to him. So, he got into lots of trouble. He hasn’t had a job since July except for about 2 weeks. I can’t believe he can’t find a job if he truly wants one. Meanwhile I’ve paid his child support so he doesn’t go to jail for non payment. I pay his car insurance so he doesn’t get in trouble for not having it. I pay for his phone because he can’t get called back for job opportunities if he doesn’t have a phone. It seems like an endless vicious circle.

I’ve finally told him that by the end of September job or no job he is on his own financially. My husband and I are going backwards financially and I would not like to have to work until I’m dead.

This makes me crazy though because I love my son so much. Intellectually I know he needs to get a clue and become a functioning member of society. He’s been offered counselling. According to him there’s nothing wrong with him. He is on antidepressants. For a little over a month now. Don’t have a clue if he’s really taking them. Intellectually, I know I have done all I can for him and that he needs to get real and get on with it. The gooey mom side of me says what if something horrible happens because I haven’t helped him. What kind of mom would let that happen. Arrggghh!

Words of wisdom?

Margit

]]> By: Mel http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-8511 Mel Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:13:13 +0000 http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-8511 Once I graduated from college and got married, that was it. My parents cut me loose whether I wanted it or not, and honestly, I'm better for it. I'm an independent, self-sufficient human being. Now, I know not every situation is the same, but as long as I was perfectly capable of supporting myself, then it was understood that I was to do so. Of course, there are exceptions such as certain circumstances, disabilities, etc. that I can understand where it would be necessary to continue living with parents, but for the people that just don't want to grow up and leave the nest because they don't want to face the big, bad world, are different. Just my two cents. :) Once I graduated from college and got married, that was it. My parents cut me loose whether I wanted it or not, and honestly, I’m better for it. I’m an independent, self-sufficient human being. Now, I know not every situation is the same, but as long as I was perfectly capable of supporting myself, then it was understood that I was to do so. Of course, there are exceptions such as certain circumstances, disabilities, etc. that I can understand where it would be necessary to continue living with parents, but for the people that just don’t want to grow up and leave the nest because they don’t want to face the big, bad world, are different. Just my two cents. :)

]]> By: Feh http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-8464 Feh Wed, 22 Aug 2007 17:55:10 +0000 http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-8464 I know a lot of people who are in their 20's to 50's who are sharing living spaces and expenses as roommates and friends. It's a good way to not be living at home but also to not have to shoulder all the expenses yourself. I know a lot of people who are in their 20’s to 50’s who are sharing living spaces and expenses as roommates and friends. It’s a good way to not be living at home but also to not have to shoulder all the expenses yourself.

]]> By: Anne-Marie http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-8386 Anne-Marie Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:35:47 +0000 http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-8386 Mercurior, I completely understand that it's not as easy to leave home, but every generation has had its difficulties. My parents, for example, shared a house with my father's brother's family when they first came to Canada in order to get ahead. Thirty years later, I did the same thing with my brother to get a leg up in our own real estate market. There are alternatives to staying home with parents that involve different sacrifices or solutions. I am, of course, generalising since there are always exceptions and I am in no way criticising anyone in particular without knowing their circumstances. -AM Mercurior, I completely understand that it’s not as easy to leave home, but every generation has had its difficulties. My parents, for example, shared a house with my father’s brother’s family when they first came to Canada in order to get ahead. Thirty years later, I did the same thing with my brother to get a leg up in our own real estate market. There are alternatives to staying home with parents that involve different sacrifices or solutions. I am, of course, generalising since there are always exceptions and I am in no way criticising anyone in particular without knowing their circumstances.

-AM

]]> By: mercurior http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-8369 mercurior Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:48:12 +0000 http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-8369 anne marie, sometimes its not as easy to leave home, what with house prices, even houses for rent, and the employment situation is.. very insecure. cant guarentee any company wont go bust 5 years down the line.. anne marie, sometimes its not as easy to leave home, what with house prices, even houses for rent, and the employment situation is.. very insecure. cant guarentee any company wont go bust 5 years down the line..

]]> By: mercurior http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-8367 mercurior Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:41:49 +0000 http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-8367 my brother is like a big kid, he sulks, and takes for granted, he may be older but i am more mature. he is ill, so its hard for us to deal with him, if we push too much gets in a teenager sulky mood. its a fine line we have to run, theres not much we can do about it. and he will probably never get better, so rowan and me will have to deal with him, when she is here. not the best solution having a 47 year old child(especially when your 13 years younger than him). mum actually likes her work, and said it keeps her mind active, and they will have to carry her out of there. she is going to keep going till she drops. thats what she told me. bro is also childfree but he doesnt think of it like that, as in the immortal Riff Raff from rocky horror " he is not yet married nor do i ever think he will be" just one of those things we have to do. part of the problem is he got into a bad crowd at university the labour party, and labour expects everyone to do whats best for each other, essentially a softer communism. labour can do no wrong, i never went to university, and i know the value of money. thats the big problem. my brother is like a big kid, he sulks, and takes for granted, he may be older but i am more mature.

he is ill, so its hard for us to deal with him, if we push too much gets in a teenager sulky mood. its a fine line we have to run, theres not much we can do about it. and he will probably never get better, so rowan and me will have to deal with him, when she is here. not the best solution having a 47 year old child(especially when your 13 years younger than him).

mum actually likes her work, and said it keeps her mind active, and they will have to carry her out of there. she is going to keep going till she drops. thats what she told me.

bro is also childfree but he doesnt think of it like that, as in the immortal Riff Raff from rocky horror ” he is not yet married nor do i ever think he will be” just one of those things we have to do.

part of the problem is he got into a bad crowd at university the labour party, and labour expects everyone to do whats best for each other, essentially a softer communism. labour can do no wrong, i never went to university, and i know the value of money.

thats the big problem.

]]> By: Anne-Marie http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-8357 Anne-Marie Tue, 21 Aug 2007 02:50:06 +0000 http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-8357 There seems to be a trend in prolonging the dependency of children for longer periods of time- how else do you explain parents who call up universities to argue about the marks their adult children are getting, or to complain that their daughter or son needs to change residence room because he/she doesn't like their dorm-mate? Personally, I can't figure out why you'd want to stay home so long as a young adult, or as a thirty-something. I left when I was 22, but did come back for 2 years at 25 in order to finish university (which was local for me, so residence wasn't necessary). That said, my father, who was working and mortgage-free, didn't charge rent but insisted that my sister and I purchase our own food and take care of all our needs in exchange for the room. That way, we cost him nothing. I think largely that children take their cues from their parents, and that if you allow them to grow up entitled and spoiled, they will take advantage of any situation they can- that's just to be expected. My parents would never have allowed it, I knew this, and so it never dawned on me to even try. There seems to be a trend in prolonging the dependency of children for longer periods of time- how else do you explain parents who call up universities to argue about the marks their adult children are getting, or to complain that their daughter or son needs to change residence room because he/she doesn’t like their dorm-mate?

Personally, I can’t figure out why you’d want to stay home so long as a young adult, or as a thirty-something. I left when I was 22, but did come back for 2 years at 25 in order to finish university (which was local for me, so residence wasn’t necessary). That said, my father, who was working and mortgage-free, didn’t charge rent but insisted that my sister and I purchase our own food and take care of all our needs in exchange for the room. That way, we cost him nothing.

I think largely that children take their cues from their parents, and that if you allow them to grow up entitled and spoiled, they will take advantage of any situation they can- that’s just to be expected. My parents would never have allowed it, I knew this, and so it never dawned on me to even try.

]]> By: Britgirl http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-8345 Britgirl Mon, 20 Aug 2007 23:53:20 +0000 http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-8345 Great comments everyone! Merc - at least you are offering to pay something. I feel sorry for your Mum though. 70 and she can't afford to retire... that's rough. I simply cannot understand anyone who pays nothing, but yet is quite able to spend money on what they want. I suppose your mum doesn't want to make him pay because he's sick, hmmm? Liz - but at least your stay was a) temporary and b) you paid rent. And one of the very good things about being childfree - not having to worry about how to support kids period. But even more, supporting them when they should be supporting themselves. Kat - I'd have done the same.. especially since he has no intention of leaving. Refuse to leave? We'd see about that ;) Hillari... 40 year old uncle??? I agree with you that it looks like parents aren't setting limits. And like you, I think it isn't saying never help your adult kids... but when does that turn into adult kids taking advantange? Great comments everyone!

Merc - at least you are offering to pay something. I feel sorry for your Mum though. 70 and she can’t afford to retire… that’s rough. I simply cannot understand anyone who pays nothing, but yet is quite able to spend money on what they want. I suppose your mum doesn’t want to make him pay because he’s sick, hmmm?

Liz - but at least your stay was a) temporary and b) you paid rent. And one of the very good things about being childfree - not having to worry about how to support kids period. But even more, supporting them when they should be supporting themselves.

Kat - I’d have done the same.. especially since he has no intention of leaving. Refuse to leave? We’d see about that ;)
Hillari… 40 year old uncle??? I agree with you that it looks like parents aren’t setting limits. And like you, I think it isn’t saying never help your adult kids… but when does that turn into adult kids taking advantange?

]]> By: Hillari http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-8340 Hillari Mon, 20 Aug 2007 22:16:21 +0000 http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-8340 I have seen this phenomena for years -- it's not new to me. I worked with a woman whose 40 year old uncle was still living at home with her grandparents. He wasn't even trying to pretend he was looking for work. I've known too many friends and relatives who went running back home to Mama and Daddy, often with their own kids in tow, because they were unwilling and/or incapable of handling their own business. My parents made it clear early on that they were not taking care of any grown children, long before we came of legal age. I believe a lot of this current issue is because some parents aren't stressing the importance of being self-sufficient to their kids. I'm not saying they should never help their adult kids out, but limits need to be firmly established and timetables drawn up. I have seen this phenomena for years — it’s not new to me. I worked with a woman whose 40 year old uncle was still living at home with her grandparents. He wasn’t even trying to pretend he was looking for work. I’ve known too many friends and relatives who went running back home to Mama and Daddy, often with their own kids in tow, because they were unwilling and/or incapable of handling their own business.

My parents made it clear early on that they were not taking care of any grown children, long before we came of legal age. I believe a lot of this current issue is because some parents aren’t stressing the importance of being self-sufficient to their kids. I’m not saying they should never help their adult kids out, but limits need to be firmly established and timetables drawn up.

]]> By: strawberry muffin http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-8339 strawberry muffin Mon, 20 Aug 2007 21:05:38 +0000 http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-8339 I lived at home during the summers during college, now I'm totally out at only 22! And I thought I was hanging around forever! I lived at home during the summers during college, now I’m totally out at only 22! And I thought I was hanging around forever!

]]> By: Kat http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-8333 Kat Mon, 20 Aug 2007 15:36:17 +0000 http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-8333 I have a friend who's a long term care specialist for an insurance company, and she meets people every week who are in their late 50's and early 60's, and still have kids in their 30's living at home. One poor dear was in tears because her 30-something son REFUSED to leave. I'd wait until he went to work, have the locks changed and all his c**p thrown out on the lawn, and a large Dobermann installed in his bedroom. Some of these kids need a slap upside the head. They'll never learn any sort of responsiblity while mummy and daddy are backing up behind with an open wallet. And then again, some of these people need to grow a spine and learn to say NO. And mean it! I have a friend who’s a long term care specialist for an insurance company, and she meets people every week who are in their late 50’s and early 60’s, and still have kids in their 30’s living at home.

One poor dear was in tears because her 30-something son REFUSED to leave. I’d wait until he went to work, have the locks changed and all his c**p thrown out on the lawn, and a large Dobermann installed in his bedroom.

Some of these kids need a slap upside the head. They’ll never learn any sort of responsiblity while mummy and daddy are backing up behind with an open wallet. And then again, some of these people need to grow a spine and learn to say NO. And mean it!

]]> By: Liz http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-8328 Liz Mon, 20 Aug 2007 13:18:54 +0000 http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-8328 I've had to move back home in the past when I lost my job unexpectedly. However, I would never even dream of staying rent free. I'm so glad to be CF and not have to worry about supporting entitlement-minded kids heading into my 70s! I’ve had to move back home in the past when I lost my job unexpectedly. However, I would never even dream of staying rent free.

I’m so glad to be CF and not have to worry about supporting entitlement-minded kids heading into my 70s!

]]> By: mercurior http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-8313 mercurior Mon, 20 Aug 2007 07:35:10 +0000 http://thebritgirl.com/2007/08/20/childfree-and-no-children-to-fund/#comment-8313 i still live at home, cant afford to move, but i give my mum housekeeping, its only fair, but i do have a sick older brother, who gives nothing. he went to university, i didnt. i know the value of money, i save, he spends and spends.. i could not, NOT pay my way. even if its a small amount, like half a giro £100 a month roughly. its better than nothing. my mum is over 70 and cant afford to retire, due to my brother. i still live at home, cant afford to move, but i give my mum housekeeping, its only fair, but i do have a sick older brother, who gives nothing.

he went to university, i didnt. i know the value of money, i save, he spends and spends..

i could not, NOT pay my way. even if its a small amount, like half a giro £100 a month roughly. its better than nothing. my mum is over 70 and cant afford to retire, due to my brother.

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