Marcy Grant gets 5 years probation for trying to sell her 4 year old
Particularly if they’re going to sell them to the not-so highest bidder. I have to thank Kath E for sending me this link. Thanks Kath! My take on it, probably influenced by my being childfree is somewhat different from all the outraged protesters on the Parents behaving badly website.
Of course, attempting to sell your offspring for the cost of a wedding dress (well for any amount really) is bad. Since it’s seemingly OK to sell your eggs or be a surrogate one might wonder if there isn’t some element of hypocrisy here, but I digress. As far as I know it’s a crime to sell children.
The more fundamental issue to me though is that some people should just not have children, because they are simply not fit to be parents. Yet, tell anyone of the outraged posters that you are childfree and what do you think their reaction would be? Probably that you’re crazy to even consider being childfree. Or, more commonly, that you’re a child-hater. When you consider the fairly terrible things done to children, most are done to them by primarily by their parents (aka, the child-lovers, who are hell-bent on having kids no matter what. Instead of “why don’t you have kids?” being thrown at childfree people by the childed, the question to the childed should really be “exactly why DO YOU have kids?” directed right back.
And perhaps the option of being childfree should be suggested far more widely – instead of pushing people to breed. After all, if all you’re going to do is get tired of them, be an alcoholic or abusive parent or worse kill them or try and hock them for goods, you’re not good parent material in the first place and you should never have had kids.
The parent in question has been given probation to mend her ways… far too lenient. But I suppose in a society that sees having children as the definition of womanhood, and pushes this above all other female endeavours – it’s no surprise.
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{ 12 comments… read them below or add one }
I am one of the “outraged posters” on Parents Behaving Badly and I have to say you are mistaken that everyone who has children thinks everyone who chooses NOT to have children is somehow a bad or lesser person than those of us who do. Three of my dearest friends have chosen to remain childless. They are all wonderful, caring, generous people who simply knew their lifestyles and/or personalities did not make them good candidates for parenting.
I applaud their decision not to bow to pressure and have kids just because others thought they should. They are happier for their decision AND they are not messing up the lives of any children by trying to assume roles they are not cut out for. I think people who know themselves well enough to realize they don’t want to be parents are absolutely doing the right thing by remaining childless.
I don’t think any less of them for their decision. Unfortunately, I have met many, many childless people (other than my friends) who look at ME askance for my decision to devote my life to my child. I think what’s needed here is for both groups to respect the other’s lifestyle decisions.
“I think what’s needed here is for both groups to respect the other’s lifestyle decisions.” – Indeed!
I think it is great that there is understanding between you and your childfree friends.
I think the problem lies in the percentage of people who give certain reactions to the childfree/childed discussion depending on situations.
“Unfortunately, I have met many, many childless people (other than my friends) who look at ME askance for my decision to devote my life to my child” – ihavekidstoo
The question is, does this make you think all childfree people are like this?
Your quote could easily be a childree person:
“Unfortunately I have met many, many childed people (other than my friends) who look at me askance for my decision not to devote my life to children”
It’s difficult to drop you’re guard when having conversations like this. Once you’ve had the tenth shocked & aghast face at the mention of being childfree from a parent (or in your situation, the opposite), you tend to put up some armour and expect all reactions to be like that. Having someone accept it straight away & without judgement is rare. You get to the point where you are fed up of being on the defensive all the time, and end up being more judging of others who live differently, ready to pounce on them at the first sign of any interrogation into your reasons for being childfree (or for you, with child/ren). You’re kind of expecting the worst, instead of being open to someone actually accepting you straight away. And, that is no excuse, I know! I think we all have to try very hard not to stereotype, but it’s so easy to fall into it without realising.
If I’ve had the same reaction from parents 90% of the time to the notion of being childfree, it’s hard not to get jaded. I try really hard not to let myself stereotype parents in general because every so often someone similar to yourself will come along and just say “Oh, that’s cool, you must have so much free time!” rather than the usual criticism you would expect.
Ihavekidstoo, you need to realize that there is a big difference between your childless friends and the childfree. Childless people would like kids, but for whatever reason are unable to have them. Childless people are likely to either suck up to parents (because they like to be around the kids and hope to be parents themselves some day) or hate parents (because of jealousy). You can’t measure CHILDFREE people based on the actions of the childLESS people you know.
As a childfree person I don’t hate everyone who has children. I have some good friends who have children. But when I randomly meet people with kids, I don’t go out of my way to befriend them, because more likely than not, they’ll be the kind of parent I can’t stand. I mostly avoid them, since I have little in common with them. Still, I reserve judgement until they prove themselves to be a shitty parent or good one. If I end up strongly dislking them and possibly arguing with them, it’s due to their ACTIONS not their inability to use birth control. I have yet to find a childfree community that says ALL parents are bad. All of the ones I’ve seen completely recognize that there are good parents, and shitty parents.
“Three of my dearest friends have chosen to remain childless. They are all wonderful, caring, generous people who simply knew their lifestyles…”
This always reminds me of the “some of my best friends are black/gay/insert minority here…BUT…” sort of statements that are supposed to allow someone to then say something truly appalling about that minority group. Thanks for acknowledging that while childfree people are capable of love and care, they would never be capable of rearing another human being. In case you didn’t realize, many childfree people DO care for others, including people who they may have NO BIOLOGICAL CONNECTION TO. These people may be doctors, nurses, teachers, social workers, or providing care for elderly parents, other relations, friends, or even their significant others.
You are all correct that there are many parents who wrongly condemn those who choose not to have children. Having been on the other side of the reaction, I know how frustrating and offensive it is to have your lifestyle decisions questioned by people who may know NOTHING about you. And who really have no business judging you.
And to clarify a point, I believe I did say that my friends have CHOSEN not to have children. They are “child-free” NOT “child-less.” Not one of them envies me for my kid, nor should they.
You are also absolutely correct that there are a whole LOT of really crappy parents out there, and believe me they annoy those of us who HAVE kids, and try to raise them to be human beings instead of rabid animals, just as much as they annoy the child-free!
Feh, I think you are reading your own experiences into my comments. What “appalling” thing did I say about child-free people? I never said nor implied that child-free people aren’t capable of caring for others, only that they had made the choice not to have children. I don’t think any reasonable person believes spawning is a pre-requisite for being able to care for others.
Finally, I just want to say that I do respect people who choose to be child-free. I think this blog looks like a great forum for discussion and socializing among like-minded people, and since I don’t want to become disruptive or an annoyance to regulars here, I will respectfully bow out of this forum with this post. Thanks for letting put in my two cents and all the best to you.
I think what got to me the most about reading the article I forwarded to Britgirl was the overwhelming push that most females face to have kids…many times starting at a very early age.
Most of you know that I made my decision not to have kids when I was 8. And person after person after person told me I would change my mind, did not know what I wanted, was too young to know what I wanted. Even as I was having my pre-op appointment to have my partial hysterectomy, the RN doing my paperwork whispered to me that ‘ it is not too late to change your mind’.
What needs to change is the automatic mindset that many people have that goes like this : female + motherhood = it’s a given.
The pressure is enormous…truly it is. And after the years you get so bloody tired and fed up.
If only the general mindset was along the lines of ‘people need to decide for themselves what a HUGE undertaking parenthood is’ I think we’d all be in a much better place…most of all the kids who have shitty parents.
In the last 2-3 years I have been thrilled to have many childed friends that are so cool with my decision…they really are a blessing.
Ihavekidstoo, it sounds like you are along the same lines as my friends, which is great. We really do need more accepting childed friends.
Not everyone is meant to be a parent. The article Britgirl refers to is proof of that.
All – thanks for your comments, keep them coming.
Ihavekids too:
“… I have to say you are mistaken that everyone who has children thinks everyone who chooses NOT to have children is somehow a bad or lesser person than those of us who do.”
I’m not mistaken. And I didn’t say that everyone who has children thinks childfree people are lesser beings or bad – I know that not everyone does and if you read through the other posts on this blog you’ll see that. You by your own admission do not think of childfree people this way and that’s as it should be. Note – you are in the minority . But MOST who have children or, for that matter are planning to have children most certainly do and they mirror what society in general feels and, as you will see from some of the responses no-one knows that better than childfree people themselves.
From doctors who refuse to give women a tubal when they want one, to parents who rear back in horror at the mere mention of the word childfree, to those who persist in telling child-free women and men they’ll “change their minds, or they’re “missing out” most are overhelmingly pro-natal, child-centric and quite intolerant and critical of any view other than it being a given that a woman naturally wants and has to have children.
When you use the word “childless” – as opposed to childfree, that says a lot to me. Childfree people don’t refer to themselves as “childless” if they’ve chosen not to have children and for very good reason.
If childfree people question people who decide to have kids, I think it’s long overdue. Because in general no-one ever questions the person who wants to breed, only the person who decides not to.
In the meantime childfree men and women while accepting that the majority want to and do have children have to undergo interrogation as to their choices.
If it was questioned more, rather than considered to be a given that women automatically want to have children then maybe we’d wouldn’t have examples of the article that triggered this discussion (which by the way is mild compared to others I’ve read and that appear daily in the news).
People get outraged after the event. By that time it’s mere handwringing – the damage has already been done. A little bit of prevention is worth a bucketload of cure.
Not everyone is meant to be a parent. It’s about time society became responsible enough to recognize and articulate that. It might save a few more kids from being in care.
This is a terrible story, and certainly does me that I do believe not everyone should have children. Thank you for the link.
I find ihavekidstoo’s response to be very thought-provoking. It is awesome that some childed people think that not everyone should have children. I have a few friends/family members who would certainly think that Marcy Grant should never have become a parent. They (as do I) value a child’s life and think that parenting is not for everybody.
It reminds me that some childed people really do try to understand and support childfree people’s decisions. I must admit that I have an automatic response of defensiveness when discussing being childfree with childed people. This reaction has developed over time, from the interrogation that inevitibly follows when I reveal that I won’t be having children.
However, I do not want to make the mistake of building walls where bridges would bring me more peace. Personally, I try to not be too pedantic with people who are trying to understand and support childfree people’s decisions. Sure, they might get the terminology wrong sometimes, but the underlying support is there! I am thankful that I can spend time with my few childed friends and family members who make my lifestyle choices seem perfectly fair and normal.
I want to say thank you to Ihavekidstoo (if you’re still reading) for reminding me that judgment occurs on “both sides”. I do get angry with people being judgmental and disbelieving my decisions, and I always will. I am a sensitive person, and it upsets me to have to deal with this mistreatment. However, I never ever want to become a person who reacts to these mistreatments by acting the same way! I know that I will never fully understand why people want children – because I never do – however I will do my best not to prematurely judge parents, in the hope that those that do judge me will someday learn not to!
(But I will always judge people like Marcy Grant to be terrible parents.)
While I think this story is sad, I find it amusing as well. Here’s why.
Whenever I read stories like this, I think of several of the bingoes that we CF folks hear from breeder parents:
1) It’s different when it’s your own. (Yeah, cause you can’t sell someone else’s kid.)
2) Don’t worry about the bills, you’ll find a way to pay for it all. (Let’s hope the kid fetches a high dollar value then.)
3) Children are our future! (Future potential income in how much we could sell them for.)
4) Who will take care of you when you’re old? (Hopefully proceeds from a high market value on the sale of the kid. See #3.)
@Feh: I was thinking the exact same thing, re: the “My best friend is a…” comment.
CFSince6… that’s a very funny take on it. You’ve touched on another point though, which is the one I keep coming back to. Despite this kind of story, despite even more horrendous stories (they are in the news now almost every day with a scary frequency) which shout louder than anything that motherhood and parenting don’t “come naturally”, no one – apart from the childfree voices so far have even suggested that perhaps deciding not to parent could/or should be an option. It’s all very well saying some people shouldn’t be parents. We can see that. But they are never told that before they have the kids… only when it’s too late.
Glad you enjoyed it, Britgirl!
And you’re exactly right. The pressure is there, There, THERE! to have babies when you don’t have them … “yet.” And then AFTER you have them? The tune changes to one of several things: 1) Not everyone should have them, 2) aren’t kids GRRREEAATTT?? or 3) Let’s whine together about our suckage life.
And seriously, when I read stories like the one you posted, and others, (Andrea Yates comes to mind) I always think about that line, “It’s different when it’s your own.”
Having spent time on both sides or maybe three sides of this discussion there are many on point observations. My wife and I have been married 36+ years, the first 20 of which were no kids not ever. We did our thing and built our careers and enjoyed our company with others without kids. During this time we would do things for those in need of help, old or young. Then we had our daughter and have lived a different life since continuing to help others in Nursing Homes. Then came the period of time of caring for my mother as she was dying. Having seen this discussion from three sides, I would have to say that there is some truth in all the points of view. However, using broad stereotypes is not a good idea.
David