Having Kids Is Overrated… Let’s Hear It For The Boys
7 01 2008Every so often I come across a gem of a post that validates things that as childfree people we already know, say, but hardly ever hear admitted. Thanks to blogs people are getting up the courage to confess their thoughts in a way that in their circles they could never ever do.
Thanks to Bella Online (great childfree forum well worth checking out) I found this post called
True Dad Confessions – Let’s hear it for the boys!
Dads saying what they really feel about becoming a parent. This is a must read! None of it is really a surprise to me. What does surprise me are the number of people who don’t think about the consequences of having children until it is too late or until they are forced upon them.
We’ve been fortunate to hear from the men’s point of view on this blog from time to time, but outside this blog their voices (and their wishes) are often drowned out and sidelined by the juggernaut of “I must have a baby no matter what…” voices of the wanna-be childed, women who feel they simply must have a child to justify their reason for being or who simply don’t think of any alternative.
At the end of the day though the men, for a variety of reasons, allowed themselves to be talked into having children. Now they are stuck with them. Read what they say.
There are so many nuggets here that I really can’t pick any particular one. But here are some quotes from the post that will have you nodding your heads…go and check them all out here.
Here’s one…
“I wish i’d never let her talk me into having kids. I didn’t really want them. And now that we do, we can’t go back to the way things were. Things were perfect before. Don’t get me wrong. I do love them and would do anything for them. Its just that life was so much better before. We’re living paycheck-to-paycheck since she quit work to be a sahm and we never get to do anything fun. Its just kids, kids, kids. I’d switch places with my childless buddies any day…”
And another…
“I stay late at work just to postpone coming home to a screeching wife and kid. I don’t know which one is worse. I have no freedom, I can’t go back to college, I can’t travel. I feel as though I’m wearing a ball and chain. If I could have one wish it would be to go back and get a vasectomy before I met my wife…”
And another…
“Having children ruined my life as well as hers. Why do women feel so obligated to have children even though they really don’t want them 24/7?”
Why indeed? I do feel for the men. But I fully agree with one Bella Online forum commentator DV who said, “I know that’s how life with a child is like, because I thought of the consequences beforehand.”
Very true. My husband and I sat down and thought through all the potential impacts to our lives and we came up with a good many of what the men in the True Dad Confessions are expressing. I wonder how many these marriages are going to survive. The ironic thing is that these men would probably have been happier childfree and might even have been childfree if given a choice.
At the end of the day though, they did make a choice and now they have to live with the painful consequences. Not a life I’d like to live.
When will the truth be told… that having children can and often does ruin a marriage? For the men there’s a very simple, accident proof passport to life on your terms… if you know you don’t want children get a vasectomy before you get married and be sure your partner knows you’ve had one.
Technorati Tags: childfree, childfree
i know a lot A LOT of men who make comments like this but only to the right men.
theres been an article saying 66% of men are afraid to speak out, that its a womans world (and by extension pro child as well). a lot of the time the men think it will be easier to give in to the constant nagging by these breeder brains. *I* nearly went down that route. so i know it can happen.
with the laws with the divorce with all the pro child pro woman pro family things out there men are unable to speak out
this is my fav comment “My oldest son has sworn never to have children for the hundredth time, and I spouted some worn-out ‘bingo’ saying about “It’s different when they’re yours”. What an idiot I am. I’m lying through my teeth and he knows it. It’s different all right — you can’t return them to sender!!”
That first guy you quoted needs to find himself a pair. First his wife talks him into having kids he doesn’t want, then she talks him into agreeing to her quitting work when they obviously can’t afford it. If they’re living paycheck-to-paycheck with one income, they need two. Husband needs to get his stones back and send that moo back to work.
They don’t even need to make comments, their actions prove it. My SO is in a band with a stay at home dad who hands off the kid and is out the door the second his wife comes home from work. He generally encourages his childfree band mates to greater excesses because “I’ve got a kid at home and THIS is my free time to be manly with the guys”.
On the other hand, he’s pressured his wife into having ANOTHER, my guess is because he believes that an only child will grow up to be a serial killer, or it’s some bizarre alpha male b.s. that I’ll never understand. So on one hand he’s complaining about being tied down, and on the other hand he’s just digging his own hole even deeper.
Having children is like having sex: the partner who doesn’t want it, gets the veto. Period.
unfortunatly ninja, when one sex has control whether to have or not have kids without the discussion with the partner. then if she oops him then there is nothing he can do.
it shuld be both agree, but a lot of time it isnt. as a man myself i know how the nagging can affect a man. its a constant thing, and in a mans mind its god at least i can give her what she wants and then she can leave me alone.
Men dont realise there are groups of childfree out there. we have been programmed into wanting the 2.4 kids the white picket fence just as much as women.
its very hard to break out of it.
It’s also much harder to convince doctors to give you vasectomies and tubal ligations when you’re young. You have to endure the endless speeches about how you’ll change your mind and that you’re too young to make such a final decision.
Wow - those quotes were a great read, albeit a little sad. It makes me appreciate the way my fiance had thought through the option of having children when he was still a teenager.
My fiance is like me, and decided he did not want to have children when he was a teenager. He has never liked anything about babies or young children and doesn’t relate well to them at all. Most of the time when there are children around he wants them, or him, to leave. He isn’t interested in child-rearing at all, and knows he would resent spending time doing child-related things when he has many of his own interests.
Since he decided not to have children so young, he has been told that he’ll change his mind. Also, since I actually enjoy playing with our friends’ and families’ children they think that I’m going to be the one to change his mind. It’s annoying that they don’t listen to us, and insulting that they think I would ever force him to do something so life-changing!
In fact, my fiance is currently looking at having a vasectomy - the first visit is in a couple of weeks! :o) He’s 27, I’m 28. Neither of us wants to have these sorts of regrets.
We do focus on the number of women “programmed” to want children and how they pressure men into it, but never really look at the opposite direction. There are plenty of men out there who are equally driven to populate the planet with their offspring and pressure women to do so. I have seen this so many times and these same men are the ones who do not realize the realities of childrearing; they have some warped 1950s notion that they return from work to children in well pressed clothes patiently awaiting dinner with dear old Dad. Reality never meets the expectations at what these Dads want.
My sister’s husband begs her every night to start a family and she want children, but wants to enjoy their marriage a bit longer. I fear for their now strong relationship as he realizes children are more then little league tournaments and video games.
On my own front I ended a long term relationship many years ago when I realized his dreams of 2.4 kids and a white picket fence didn’t meet my dreams. Dating after that was difficult because of the number of men indicating they wanted to have children which quickly ended any chances with them. I think we give women a really bad rap; men are just as brainwashed on the topic as women!
yes exactly , Explosive Bombchelle.
there is the idea, that the 1950’s model. in part its a we as men wish it was like that, when kids had respect for parents, for adults.children had the ability to play and to be independent, they could go out and play for hours.. whereas todays kids arent as independent.
why is life so much harder in todays world with all these labour saving devices, you need twice as much income when in the 50’s you didnt have as much but you were grateful for what you had. but today its always about what i can get whats next, i need a mcmansion, i need the latest video game i need i want.. its become a self centered world, with no thought of tomorrow.
but this idea of the stay at home moo, harkens back to that age, the “wife” would cook and clean and keep the household sorted, while the man worked. an equal division of labour. HE worked to provide, and she kept the house nice. not that he forced her to do that, but a lot of women chose that life style themselves. so essentially what these stay at homes do is they want life to be like it was in the 50’s, and when men see it was nicer and they agree with it.. they get told they shouldnt be dong that.
but was the 50’s really so bad.
and i agree there are men who push to breed. but a few of them dont realise the TRUTH, and some after becoming a father have major doubts, but they never tell their wives they tell other men.
its the same problem the expectation of the white picket fence perfect life.. when its not like that, but thats what sold to women and men today. and some are brainwahsed into believing it
Hi all,
Just wanted to add my two cents! It really bugs me that people these days think there is nothing else to life except having children one day. I was at my local gym tonight and a 21 year old girl was talking about her upcoming wedding. She was telling a group of us how they were going to try for a baby on their honeymoon. I kept on questioning her about it and it turns out that it’s her fiance that is pressuring her to have kids. I told her about the lifestyle my husband and I have - ie. time for each other, nice holidays, freedom to go out for dinner etc - and you could telll the cogs were turning inside her head. She asked lots of questions about our lifestyle and said she had never thought of any other alternative as her attitude was that the cycle of life was marriage then kids (well, more so it was her family and society brainwashing her). I asked her did she really want kids at all and she said that no she didnt but was doing it to please her fiance. I asked her why she wanted kids and she said, “Well that’s just what you do in life”.
It turns out that her future husband has no idea about what’s involved in raising kids, but knows that he wants four!! There’s a couple heading for divorce!!
she should talk to him, maybe he is thinking the same. she wants kids so 4.
its best to sort things out b4 marriage. i doubt the future hubbie is a cf because he says 4, which is a specific amount, but you never know
Oh, so much to say! I have comments on almost all comments! hehehe…
First of all Britgirl’s post: I’m not surprised at these comments by dads. I went to that truedadconfessions.com site. What a time sink! It’s amusing to read. I can generalize all over the place about what happened, but I won’t. I just think that comments like these are proof that some men simply didn’t want children but went along with it.
I like what strawberry muffin said: they need to grow a pair.
Explosive Bombchelle: when I was “out looking” I’d see so many men in my age group (mid 30’s at the time) so very anxious to get a family started. Ugh. I personally found it disgusting. (Yes, that word, “disgusting.”)
Aussie childfree: I think that’s the general attitude of people, especially when they’re young and marrying young, that “this is just what you do.” I remember being 6 years old and expressing a desire to NOT have children. I got all the bingos, “You’ll change your mind,” etc. ad nauseum. But there was always in the back of my mind, “well, I suppose I’ll have children, because that’s just what you do.” I had an epitome at 19 and decided to stand firm on my decision.
“I think we give women a really bad rap; men are just as brainwashed on the topic as women!”
Wow, you’ve met my ex, then? The guy who left when I refused to change my mind about children … to follow the good-Catholic-boy life script because that’s what everyone expected of him. Fatherhood is going to be a rude shock to that boy - but by then, it will be way too late.
Sometimes all the sheeple make me want to scream. Kids are the most important and far reaching decision you’ll ever make, and most people put more thought into a plasma TV.
..Thanks heaven for that…
These are great comments!
EBombshell - It’s true we don’t focus much on the breeder men (even that term seems strange) and I bet they are out there in numbers. I know of some men who don’t hesitate to completely dismiss a woman if she decides she doesn’t want to breed and I think we’ve had some comments on posts on this blog about those types. The few men who speak out about not wanting kids are still a rarity. All in all though, I think that there are many men who have no idea that having children is going to upend their lives (given that it’s still the woman who does most of the caring), and most have no inkling that there’s a choice, let alone a Childfree choice.
If the woman is dead set on having kids, “giving in” when they really don’t want them seems, as mercurior has said, the path of least resistance. That is if they aren’t oops into it and if they even get a chance to discuss it. But they are always expected to go out and provide… so that the sahm option can be established asap.
I know of a guy, who though he studied and passed Uni with flying colours hasn’t been able to get the kind of job he anticipated (in law). Wants to go into business for himself. Wife wants him to keep trying for public service where there is a chance, she thinks, of big (and bigger) salaries. Reason? She wants to have kids and stay home to look after them. If hubby has to take years building a business (what he loves) it make that dream just that much farther away. She nags him continually. Of course, hubby is stressed, but for now is sticking to his guns.
I also agree with Strawberry though… some men just need to get their balls back. If they can be talked into everything that they feel is against their better judgement it’s no wonder they are in the no win state they are.
Mercurior - your thought reminds me of the post by Major Hart
a while back. And that men will only say what they really feel to certain men - and under anonymity.. or there’s hell to pay.
Aussie Childfree - I agree with CFS6 - It’s a scary thought that NO thought had been given to what having kids really means and the consequences… and in a few years time when all is revealed these will be the women that will probably be telling us “you really should have kids, you know…” I mean the wedding will have been planned and agonized over to the last detail. But kids? Just something that you do…sheep.
“It turns out that her future husband has no idea about what’s involved in raising kids, but knows that he wants four!! ”
So…basically he hasn’t got a clue in general. They’ll make a grand pair. Good luck to the poor kids.
CFS6, agree with you completely! When are people going to realise they actually have a choice when it comes to having children. I’m like you, I’ve known since I was very young that I never wanted kids.
Kat, I LOVE that word of yours “sheeple”, it’s so apt.
Britgirl, that kid at my gym (I hesitate to use the word woman), I talked to her a bit further and just pointed out the benefits of being childfree, that kids aren’t the only option, that you can have a fulfilled life etc without kids. I present my views of being childfree when people start spouting the usual bingos “oh you’ll change your mind”, “it’s different when they’re your own”, etc.
The the thing that I find interesting is that it appears that childfree people are more tolerant of people with kids than the other way around. By this I mean that I’ve never heard a childfree person say to a childed person, “Why would you ruin your life and have kids?” I find generally that we accept that’s what they want to do but it’s always the childed who are intolerant of our reasons for not wanting kids.
Thanks all, for allowing me to vent. It’s nice to know that there’s more out there like my husband and I.
Hi forgot to mention one thing earlier, about a magazine article I read about 5 years ago. Three couples were interviewed and the focus was on the men not wanting to be fathers, but the women were pressuring them to have kids. One of the couples that stood out in my mind was the woman that forced her husband to attend counselling session with a psychologist(!!!!) so he could confront his fears about having kids. WTF??? She kept saying throughout the article that, “It’s not normal to not want kids, he needs to confront his fears and issues about having kids”. She was desperate to have a baybee…
It’s attitudes like this that I find frightening as it’s telling people that they’re abnormal for not wanting kids. Childfree folk, stand united
the idea that all men want kids is pervasive, even on some cf boards where i am in the minority there is always a idea that as a man i will want a child because i am a man.
for a lot of people women in particular the idea that a man will say NO to children is an anathema to them. they know 12 men who want kids therefore i am a man i want kids.. QED….not all cf women are like that i hasten to add.
mercurior, it is interesting you bring up the 1950s reference as the nostalgic time period when parenting seemed so much easier. I cannot remember if I’ve mentioned this on this blog before but my husband’s answer to the “why are you childfree” questions is focused on his understanding the reality of fatherhood in the 21st century and realizing it is not for him. If it was 1950 and his responsibilities in the parenting arena were limited to bringing home the bacon and throwing a baseball for 20 minutes in the back yard after a quiet meal where perfectly behaved children realized their role was to be seen and not heard then he would consider having children. Since that is not an option and he would have to share parental responsibilities it’s just not his bag.
Of course, I must take a moment to communicate that we overly romanticize the 1950s. A Woman’s path in life was pre-determined and society forced her to stay home and raise children whether she wanted them or not. So men had their perfect little children and a wife who actually wanted to blow her brains out.
In regards to men being just as brainwashed as women I would be interested in studies that outline why men desire children vs. women. Some might be a lack of true understanding at the amount of time, energy and money having children demands. Many probably have the “it’s what you do” sheeple (I love that term by the way Kat!). But there are so many other Neanderthal reasons I hear come out of the mouths of men. Passing on the “seed,” making it impossible for women to leave and gaining a greater control over the relationship are some reasons I’ve actually heard/witness. Just what every woman wants; a man who looks at children as a means of trapping his wife so he can behave poorly.
thing i my mum lived in the 50’s, she was bon in 1936, so wa old enough to experience the 50’s. and she said what i said was right.
i said in part the kids respected the adults, respected society essentially thats thge difference between todays world and then.
not in all places explosive, my mum worked till 1960, then she had a kid took 4 years off worked part time from 4 til 11 then went back to work. same with me.
may i ask explosive how old you are and where you live. i like in the uk in a small northern town. can you state for a fact that life here was the same as america i doubt it. thats the real myth.. that the 50’s subjugated women.
it opened up a whole world of new jobs after the 2nd world war, you had more women in factories and they carried on.. in the 50’s and 60’s and ever after.. so you cant say the 50’s was really a time of subjugation, at least not in the UK. it was in essence the womans choice to go to work in a factory or have babies. as i say i live in the UK. we had women truck drivers in th 50’s women doing every job after the 2nd world war when men went out to kill and be killed.. someone at home had to do the work and it was women.
I beg to differ with the views expressed by “explosive” The women in the 1950’s and 1960’s worked a lot harder in rearing their families than is done present day.
For a start off they never dumped their offspring on whoever they could find, it was not done.
Mothers played with their children, taught them manners, were there when the child needed them. Taught them to read, read them stories, took them for walks and explained about the flowers, trees and wildlife. Maybe that has never been the way in USA but it most certainly was in Britain.
Mothers were not greedy as they are now, they saved up and bought thing when they could afford to pay for them outright.
They had not emasculated the males until the 1960’s when Germaine Greer and her ilk decided they wanted to be equal to men, but they were lying they didn’t want to be equal they wanted to be better. The idea of a working partnership died in that era for a lot of families.
Because the women worked until they had a child and then stayed home until they started school when they did some part time work maybe from 10.00 am till 2.00 pm and then collected their own children up from school, where there to discuss any homework or problems that had occurred.
Then as the child got older they did a few extre hours but were always there to take the child to school at the normal time of 9.00 am. and to collect it at 3.00 pm..
When women stopped working for those first 5 years, it released the jobs for the young people entering the workforce, now that never happens, these women get the jobs and keep them no matter what happens to anyone else in society.
The go off on maternity leave for 12 months paid for, then they have to have time off because the little darlings have a school function, or not well or school holidays. and the the remainder of the workfoce who have not children or grown up children suffer for these selfish people. They are expected to do the work for them whillst they are absent for no extra pay and it simply is not good enough.
Where do people in authority think the jobs are going to come from for the next generation of young people.
I have lived through all the time this has evolved and it is obvious to me that life has been irreprably damaged by greedy selfish, women( moos) at the expense of the young, the old and their husbands or partners.
Oh, wah, Mercurior. If it’s a “woman’s world,” why do we still make less money than men, why are most government leaders men, why do we still get blamed for being raped, and why is our autonomy over our own reproductive system regularly challenged? Damn, I’m tired of whiny little “men’s rights activists.”
And LOL Giselle…by demanding they get equal legal standing, women “emasculated” men? I don’t know who irks me worse, the MRAs, or misogynist women who suck up to teh poor widdle menz and shit on other women.
Notice it says childless (free) the wage gap vanishes.. i wonder why.. i stress again its all about the choice a person makes. and how much time they put into that job. that determines the alledged “gap” and before you call him an anti childfree he did say generally.. because wemknow there are exceptions
I am from the US (NY specifically) so the experiences are probably different, but there are many studies and books around women (maybe just in the US) taking a step backwards after WWII in the area of equality and career opportunities since it was expected women would give up their jobs outside the home when men returned from war; many women were fired from their WWII positions because veterans needed their jobs back. I am 32 and had the opportunity to talk to my Grandmother on the topic many times before her death; she mourned the position women lost in society after the roaring 20s and how her daughters (my aunts) had more pressure to get married early and have children then she even did.
Betty Friedan’s “The Feminine Mystique” attacked the popular notion that women could only be fulfilled through childbearing and homemaking. While it is a controversial book it is still a great read that continues to be worthy of discussion.
And Giselle, why are women selfish for wanting more then just being mothers? Men have been allowed to be more then just fathers for centuries. While I am childfree as a means of maintaining my equality and focusing on my career and personal fulfillment there are so many women who still need to learn that being childfree is an option in our society that allows them to continue on with their careers unscathed and their pocketbooks fully in tact. True equality with children is still difficult if not impossible in our world; men who decide to stay home or just share a heavier hand with household duties find they do not have the support system or societal support to make this lifestyle choice successful. I’m not saying we should give parents preferential treatment, I’m just saying we need to remember that it takes two to tango and blaming women for policies like maternity leave or not staying home because their career is just as important as their spouses is sexist.
but didnt she say in a study when she questionnaire to other women in her 1942 Smith College graduating class. Most women in her class indicated a general unease with their lives. Through her findings, Friedan hypothesized that women are victims of a false belief system that requires them to find identity and meaning in their lives through their husbands and children. Such a system causes women to completely lose their identity in that of their family. and now look at the wonders of the feminist world, sahm are applauded women who work are looked down upon for not having children.. the complete reverse of the theory she put forward. of course this was predominantly in middle class suburban communities. so it wasnt as valid in lower or upper classes.
Reginlief… while I encourage comment and views on issues related to the blog post topic, this one seems to be going off into another direction. It is not the place to discuss underreported rape statistics or even wage gaps except as related to the topic of the post. And this blog isn’t a place to throw insults at other commentators. So please respect the points of others commentators - even if you don’t agree with them, keep your comments civil and on topic - otherwise I’ll delete them.
sorry britgirl, but i firmly beleive that a lot of this myth about wage gap can be laid at the feet of mothers, which does the childfree no good. i just wanted to answer regins questions. and i agree its gone to a subject thats not related to the childfree world.
so, i am sorry if i took it a different way. childfree people who work get the same, because we put more effort into the job and we rarely take the same amount of time off. If, going back on topic, men and by extension childfree women are considered kidults, because they dont have children, then all the ones who work and work hard are reduced into selfish children. which is a bingo in itself, we are too selfish to be treated like adults because we dont follow the life script.
as i said its all about choice, and the choices people make that affect work places and finances. because we the childfree generally work more than a lot of parents, isnt that a definition of adult, to provide for yourself and your family (however that family exists). But once again they are saying we are irresponsible, and selfish, because we work harder??? we spend money on ourselves to have a happy content life?? that we care for the enivronment?? if thats being a kidult then i will embrace the term.
People should take responsiblity for the consequences of their actions. and a lot of parents dont.
Just new to all the CF articles, blogs and other CF-websites, I feel so relieved that:
1) I’m not a freak for daring to think about “I don’t want to have children”
2) My own subborn mind was holding me back when my girlfriend endlessly whined, jelled, tried to convince me about having children.
We broke up because of that (after 3,5 years), and now she is desperately searcing for an other ‘victim’, who will be dad soon.
I always thought that you just got children, just like everybody else. Now I read stuff like ‘It’s a choice!’ yes or no. Aaaahhhhh, so simple. Mindboggeling, freaking out and comleting a journey, like a quest for freedom.
Finally!!!!
Yes my social network talked to me, she tried (but only from her point of view), my collegues think I should be in a psychiatric hospital (7 out of the 12 woman are pregnant at this time).
There is actually someting like childfree.
But there are still windmills to fight (where is my dusty sword)
A comment I want to make is like an expression in Dutch:
De grootste fout die je kan maken is iemand onderschatten!!
(The biggest mistake you can make is to underestimate somebody!!)
That is for CF people but also for “breeders”
(still having to find the right words, but give me a wile and everything will go smoothly)
And also something else
The articles of Ruut Veenhoven, a Dutch professor sociology and sexuology and specialised in “Happiness” (and that’s no joke, he has a chair in the board of the University for that) are just great!
He stated that a couple without children is happier that a couple with children. (with scientific data)
And because of that he almost lost his job!!!
This is the link:
http://www2.eur.nl/fsw/research/veenhoven/work-on-parenthood.htm
(sorry, in Dutch, but everything he published about childfree)
http://www2.eur.nl/fsw/research/veenhoven/
(his own homepage, whith articles in English)
Maybe an addition to some of knowledge about CF from all over the world.
I have a question:
Why do men (in general) always let woman make a choice about parenthood (children yes - no) and just agree with her decision?
Paul - Welcome!
“There is actually someting like childfree.”
Yes, there really is
“But there are still windmills to fight (where is my dusty sword)”
You’ve come to the right place!
having children can ruin a marriage - this only the case when the couple aren’t shore why they got marred… and why they wont kids
mercurior, IMO, those men need to get their balls back.
Many are probably afraid of being alone and so they go along with what women want.
Further, women who are bloated with “babies rabies” pull all sorts of crap on men which really start to whiddle down their self esteem. It’s a form of verbal abuse with what they say.
I don’t see this world as being “pro women,” being a woman in the workforce here in the United States I know for a fact that we don’t have equal standing. But I do acknowledge that there is a huge trend of emasculating men - especially in the media.
I hate shows like sitcoms where men are essentially kicked in the balls. You can see it in the way they joke around and are treated like dumb asses. Even commercials do this. I personally hate that and I certainly don’t blame men for feeling the way they do.
Paul, it certainly is freeing once you realize that you don’t HAVE to have children, isn’t it? Welcome!
i agree, but its so hard for men to say what they mean without being called woman haters, or whiney mens rights.. or potential rapists or misogynists or all men are rapists, even if you dare say it may not be fair this world to men. as one poster on this topic put.. (begins with an R). so men dont like saying stuff. and its worse when it comes to mothers and children. and your right its abuse but its an abuse that is condoned by the pro baby groups..
and yes sone men are afraid and they go along with it.. to men its the path of least resistance, i was using pro woman in the bad sense, the sitcoms etc..i seperate the pro woman pro child areas (which i did put), for the very reason. Its essentially pro motherhood masquerading as pro woman. that does the childfree no good at all.
it is nice to see another cf male about..
Having children is difficult, but it makes you a better person. It is no longer all about you. You also learn the true meaning of patience and all of your faults are right in your face! I never thought I had a temper until I had kids. However, within the biggest challenges are the biggest rewards and opportunities for self growth if you allow it. Nothing worthwile is without work.
However, I don’t think co-workers without children are selfish. I respect everyone’s choice or situations. Many people with children didn’t mean to have children and some did. Each bring unique experiences to the table or work and should be commended as long as they support the other. Judging people only causes you to be the hardest upon yourself.
Emily - Having children is a choice. There is nothing “difficult” about popping out children, it takes the simple act of sex. Rearing well-balanced children is a different matter. And for that BOTH parents must want them, not just one.
As for children making you a better person - if you want to believe that - fine. There is plenty of evidence that it does no such thing. But it doesn’t stop people trying to convince others that they need children to be ” a better person”. Happily some of us would rather pass.
While many find that children can bring out all sorts of aspects of their character, (good and bad) having children isn’t necessary for self-discovery or self-development for that matter. And that isn’t their purpose.
And yes, we’d rather that the childed didn’t judge childfree people - including trying to convince them to parent. That would be nice.
so the parents who abuse their children are better people, because they have children.
Interesting definition of better. So are you in essence saying you are better than us. Only people with children are able to see our own faults. I do charity work, with old people, i help others, does that invalidate my self worth, my self knowledge.. Or can a person only grow if they have children. Its no longer about you, hell people have parents to look after, sick brothers, sick family, so are those people selfish. or is it only when you have children do you become UNselfish.
Cant you see, that This is the very thing that annoys childfree. The idea that a childed person is better knows more than a childfree person.
“Having children is difficult, but it makes you a better person. ”
Really? Then what kind of people must Andrea Yates, Susan Smith, Diane Downing, Debra Jean Mike, Susan Eubanks, Michelle Sue Tharp, and Darlie Lynn Routier have been before they had children? Children, I might add, that they murdered.
Interestingly, according to the American Anthropological Association, more than 200 women kill their children in the United States each year.
I think that’s a pretty good statistic to thwart the “having children makes you a better person argument.” But if you want to go on believing that women who choose to have children are somehow “better people” that those who opt for a different path in life, you go right ahead and live in your perfect little bubble world. Me? I prefer to live in reality.
Slight correction…her name is Diane Downs, not Diane Downing.
and marie hilley, marybeth tinning, the lisa montgomery case. Deanna Laney (who stoned hers),
and these women who were obsessed with having a child and killed for it.
And these are “better” than us??????
http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/women/women_killers2/12.html
These are women who want children so badly they will kill other pregnant women, just for the child.
I’m a dad — 2 kids, older teenagers - lovely kids, no complaints. Couldn’t ask for better kids But I regret having them and how it changed (destroyed) our life and marriage.
Having kids absolutely can ruin a marriage. And I disagree with a previous post in here (and others) that this happens because the couple didn’t know why they wanted kids, or didn’t really want them.
No. It happens because young parents don’t realize how pervasive, life-changing, and RELENTLESS an effect children will have on your life. We are fed these lines of bull from our parents, and child-rearing books, and from society in general, that it will be only “temporary”, that we will rearrange our lives and find ways to keep the “spontanaeity” there - “you just have to work at it.” That the reward of watching your children grow will be worth all the time you miss out on with each other.
These are the same idiots who describe giving birth as “a little uncomfortable” (no joke, that’s the term our childbirth instructors always used).
That’s how it happens, man. It looks like it will be nothing but joy and satisfaction to raise a darling child with the woman you love. Then you wake up 20 years later, look back on all the quiet, soulful, intimate time you have lost with your wife, and realize that you basically traded a passionate, care-free, loving relationship with a woman for 20 years of stress, work, and loneliness.
If just one man reads this, decides not to have children, and 20 years from now wakes up in the morning with his wife in his arms and thinks how lucky he is and how glad he is that they have dedicated their lives to each other, then my posting all this will have been well worth it.
Thanks for that, I really needed it! I’m tired of feeling like a villain for not wanting kids! My family just doesn’t get it, that some people don’t want kids because they just don’t, and that it has nothing to do with something being wrong with us! I love kids to death, such as my cousins who are little, but I need my distance for the 24/7 kind of life. I want my own life and I’d like to find a man who’ll want the same things as I do. I’m only 18 so I’m not in a rush, but since I’ve known about what I’ve wanted for so long I know for a fact I’m not going to change my mind. I mean come on, it’s not like our species is dying out, there are millions of people who suffer because there aren’t enough resources to support them. It’s not gonna hurt anything to, (like “m” mentioned above) have a loving relationship with a spouse in place of like 20 years worth of stress and restriction. (and I should add that I don’t judge people who do make this choice, in the same way I’d expect them not to judge me) Personally I’m looking forward to becoming a successful doctor, getting my pilot’s license and playing endless amounts of sports and video games with my husband while having hot sex anytime we please.
I wish my husband had thought of all this! He had two kids with his ex-wife and it sucks. They waste our time, money and are a constant sourse of tension. The idiot slut that popped them out used to call whenever, for no reason whatsoever. As if anyone gives a crap about her imbecile “thoughts”, every bloody visit is a drama, and the amount of money in child support is staggering. Then of course we pay for the privilege of babysitting these stupid brats when they come here. I had to tell my husband, before we were married, that this is not for me. Luckily, he understood and the visits have been curtailed, the phone calls put an end to - he calls the children on their cell phones once a week and thats that (yes, of course they have cell phones - the slut they fell out of doesn’t work, of course but the child support pays for cell phones), and the holidays are not assumed to be wasted on these children. What I would give to have them piss off forever! I dread every visit. They contaminate my home, and the sight of my husband touching them revolts me. If a price was named to be rid of them, I’d pay it. I’d sell my property, beg, borrow and steal. My friends are horrified - Would you want to be with the kind of man that abandons his children? Bla bla bla - YES! Desperately, totally and completely, YES! One is ugly, the other one stupid, and both look like their half-retarded moo. Thank goodness we are moving even further away and their visits will be once a year. I cannot wait! My husband so regrets ruining his and now our lives, but really, it’s a breeding cow’s world out there - all that a dumb slut needs to do is get knocked up and she never needs to work a day in her life. It’s appalling. The man is the one who is stuck financing these mistakes (well, and his new wife, too.) It is completely unfair, but that’s something to think about for the guys - you will be financially ruined by these brats whether you stay with the moo or not, your vacations and holidays will blow, and your sex life will diminish whenever the brats are in your house. Plus instead of adult food you get to eat microwave chicken nuggets and assoerted other crap all the while sitting on a plastic action figure. What fun!
expatgirl, no matter how much I liked a guy, if I found out he had kids, he was immediately dumped. I fore saw all the things you are currently talking about, and even THAT I didn’t want to put with.
I may have passed up some nice guys, but quite frankly they’re not worth the trouble that old baggage of children with a previous woman brings.
Good luck to you!
CFSince Six - ditto. And my husband was the same… he met plenty of women looking for a daddy for their children before we connected.
Those women now must facing fact that number of men in the world is much less than women. Men have big opportunity to pick. And I’m sure the smart ones, won’t pick them who already have children. Without loosing my emphaty to them, I just tell the truth.