Must be something in the air, because it’s definitely men’s week this week on Like It Is!
I found the inspiration for this post on in my daily Google Alert. It’s increasingly fascinating what pops up under Childfree these days… all kinds of decidedly not childfree stuff. But, no matter. It’s given me a reason to post (not that I need one). For the record, I did pootle over to Have Children or remain childfree and I tried to leave a comment, but once again, as it’s the un-user-friendly Blogger platform it’s a right old Pain In The Backside. A PITA as Chris W would say.
I have no time to fight with Bloggers comment unfriendliness, so it’s back to here – where I have no such worries and can be a lot more…er shall we say… verbal?
Anyway here is the scoop:
Men – if you’re delaying or prevaricating about having kids you now have a new name. It’s called kiddult. That’s according to the post entitled “What if you want kids and your partner doesn’t?”
Is this deja vu or what? See links at the bottom for a refresher (or a first time read).
After reading the post – and, as I always say go have a read for yourself – this was going to be my comment:
Start comment: “I think it’s rather offensive (not to talk of being untrue and dangerous)to conclude that because a man is reluctant to have children he doesn’t want to “grow up.” Many men simply do not want kids. They may not know how to express this, because of course, it isn’t the “done thing” to say you don’t want them and you like your life as it is. It also is very difficult for many men who do not want to parent to simply come out and say so in the face of the pressure of a partner who is so desperate to re-produce that it overrides any rational thought.
And as a poster said, having kids does not make you an adult – male or female, nor does it make you responsible. Being responsible as adult does not require kids. At all. That is just a myth (which many unfortunates believe) to pressure men into parenting when they do not want to or are not ready to. It is a very outdated myth, a stupid myth and, I might add as damaging as saying to a woman that she needs to have children to be “a woman” or “for her life to have meaning, or to be of value.” That is total rubbish, but it’s what is sold to us, women and men alike.”
End comment.
I thought the following quote in the post was quite ironic. If Mark aware that his career is taking off, and sees that that career might possibly be the engine to finance upcoming house renovation, how then can he be a “kidadult” and irresponsible? Because he isn’t on “kid drive”?? “And isn’t he quite right to fear giving up what he enjoys about his life now?”
Or does his maturity not count unless he is fathering kids?? That isn’t the bit that hit me though…
“Mark has a fear of giving up what he enjoys about his life now. None of his friends have kids yet and he has no role models his age with children. His best friend is talking about having kids but Mark sees it as pressure on him. His career is taking off, we have all these grand plans with the renovation of the house, he is worried that now is not the right time.”
How about giving Mark some credit (nay respect) and accept that in fact “now is not the right time?” And in fact it may never be the right time, because perhaps he doesn’t want them. Or at least he doesn’t want them enough to have them. Which from a childfree perspective is the most responsible thing to do.
Then this:
“When it comes to making the decision to have children or not, the dilemma for women in Janet’s position is that they are in a relationship with a ‘Kidult’ – a man who doesn’t want to grow up, to take on adult responsibilities. As the lines blur between the end of ‘youth’ and beginning of adulthood in our culture now, so it becomes more difficult for Kidults to give up the dream of youth.”
This premise is what I found offensive. It makes me think of the stupid bingoes childfree women get because they don’t want to breed. I think of how we are called selfish by ignorant childed people who think they know us better than we know ourselves, telling us how wonderful having children is and how we will “change our minds.” I think of the last post (below), where it is quite clear that men are not free from the pressure to start re-producing – not by a long shot. Beth, please read those sad, anon posts – because those are the posts of men who, God help them, DID give in to the unfair pressure to have kids – against their better judgement – and are living to regret it. Some will be gone once the kids are older.
But what offended me the most is that the view paints men as shallow, fickle creatures, only interested in staying young, whose only role when they “grow up” is to father and provide for a brood of kids and satisfy the unrelenting tyranny of the biological clock, which seemingly must be obeyed. And who can only grow up by having a child or two. I suppose that part of the “growing up” process is to be forced to work all hours and never do what you want to because you’ve succumbed to living life on another’s terms. Once you have the kids there is no going back. Contrary to our child-centric society, people should think 100 times before blithely popping out kids, simply because you can or because you want to. And if both parents aren’t 100% for it, better not to have them.
Being childfree is a viable, valuable, joyful and much needed option today. The many true childfree blogs and forums, not to speak of those living very happily childfree prove this.
On another note I will say that with some of the examples in the Have children or remain… article it seems clear that not a lot of listening or conversation is going on in the said relationships. Or that some conversations should have been had before marriage and the boundaries defined then. There’s a lot of “I want, I need, I want…” And if a person has no intention of having kids then it is only fair they be honest about it with their partners and let them leave if having a child is more important than the relationship. There are enough posts on this blog to make that point clear. And we know how seriously people take you when you say you don’t want to have kids, don’t we? Sadly though, the signs are there (they are always there) and people willfully ignore them until it is too late.
Men have every right to delay having children until they are ready, or not to have them at all.As much right (and responsibility as women do) Just as it is our right not to breed, it’s men’s also. Often a reluctance to haw kids is exactly that – they don’t want to have kids – and no, they do not want the responsibility, or the burden. Why should they?
Just because a man doesn’t do what his partner wants, when she wants it, does not make him immature or a “kidult”. Given that many men don’t have a clue as to what bringing up children entails and only find out when it’s far too late, on the contrary they are sensible not to have children unless and until they are sure they want them.
Over to you.
Illustrative posts (a sample).
Having Kids Is Overrated, Let’s hear it for the boys
I want a baby but my husband doesn’t
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Hi Everyone,
I just found this community after searching for Why men don’t want kids. I’m in the exact same situation as Josh and I don’t know what to do. I’m constantly sad, depressed and have even thought about ending my life…I doubt I would. It’s just the pain of losing my best friend and wife of over 10 years because she wants kids and I don’t .
The only difference between Josh and me is that my wife or me never talked about the subject before getting married. She just thought that one day we would have them and in my mind they never came up because I just never thought about being a dad, but I do know for a 100 percent fact that I don’t kids now that the subject has been brought up. I have no feelings toward kids whatsoever and have no desire to be a dad or do things a dad would do.
My wife claims it would be the ultimate act of love, but that makes no sense to me. To me, marrying each other was the ultimate act of love. We’ve never had any real problems except for this. The way I see it is she married me for me, cause she wanted to be with me and not just for having baby. In many ways that makes me feel like our relationship has been a lie. She’s willing to throw away our home, our dog, our live, our friendships for a child….keep in mind a child that doesn’t even exist.
I feel so sick and depressed and don’t know what to do. We also can’t afford the child as I only make around $13,000 a year and she makes just a little more then me. We both have debt and neither of us can surive without the others income. If we did split I would become homeless. I have no where to go and can’t afford a place.
That’s a small issue as the big issue is losing the women I love more then anything in this world. I’m a good man who honors my wife, but I just can’t have a kid to make her happy and her happy alone. It’s not like buying a dog. Your bringing a new life into this world that you are responsible forever.
Let’s say we did have a kid and she was happy I wouldn’t be. Let’s say we did have a kid and I was happy with a kid then I’m sure the stress of life, money, debt and her wanting the baby more then me would affect our marriage.
I wouldn’t mind going to see a consulor or something, but the truth is they can’t really give advice on something they are not going through or living. They can tell people what to do or give advice, but at the end of the day it’s not their lives their affecting. It’s mine.
I see Josh’s relationship ended in divorce and I don’t want that, but I also want to live a happy life. I need someone to talk too, please can anywhere provide me any types of words or support
Mark
@Mark – Thanks for sharing, sorry for what you are going through.
Perhaps you and Josh can connect on this as he has been through this experience and as another guy he will know how you feel. My other suggestion is to read through the posts on this blog… you will discover you are not alone. It might not be a ton of comfort, but at least here you know that there are people who do understand. Having a child when you do not want one isn’t an “ultimate act of love” but saying it is just because you want one IS emotional blackmail.
Have you shared your feelings with your wife? I mean really talked things through and listed all the reasons as you have here? Ideally you both need to talk with someone, but as you say the last thing you want is a “counsellor” with kids who is biased… If you could find someone who really listened to you, that may also help. You don’t have to agree with or take their advice. A childfree counsellor or confidante would be ideal.
Mark, first of all, I’m very sorry that you’re dealing with this. I can definitely relate and it’s not a good experience. I agree with Britgirl that counseling may be a good idea, as long as you pick the right one, especially if you’re also experiencing depression. It is absolutely necessary that you clearly discuss your feelings and reasons for them with your wife. If that can’t be done without it turning ugly, then that’s another reason to try counseling.
It may look hopeless now, but it doesn’t have to be. With the right help you can work through this if you’re both willing to. Even though I failed, I know of people who did get through it and realized that what they had was too good to give up. I hope that it does work out for you. Good luck!
Hi Mark,
Let me be quite blunt and brutal. If you dont have the need to breed, its because you arent meant to. Simple as that. Im 54 and have lost 5 wonderful women that have travelled through my life because I didnt want kids. Dont know why, I just didnt have the feeling for it as you dont. If your lady has the need to bread, thats just the way it is. Life is tough. Be grateful you found out before it was too late. A lot of men go through it and realise later they made a mistake. Some take off abandoning thier families,leaving destruction everywhere. Its commendable to know and acknowledge the way you feel about this. Grant your partner the right to have children and be grateful you shared some part of her life. Others will come along when the time is ready. I have been called selfish for my actions, but I think its the oposite. You have another purpose my friend and raisng kids isnt it.
Take care
I used to believe that men were exempt from the pressures to breed as women are. It appeared that society winked at men who had escaped from fatherhood, especially the ones who are confirmed bachelors. I also thought that it was easier for men to state their lack of interest in fatherhood. Since they are not the ones who carry the kids for nine months, I assumed most just shrugged when a man says he’s childfree (while jumping down a woman’s throat because she won’t finagle a man into geting her pregnant). But now I see that is not the case.
My advice to any man who is on the fence about being a father, or knows he doesn’t want to go down that road: run like hell from any woman who has that twinkle of baby rabies about her. I don’t know what to say to the guys who are already married, and their wives are pressuring them into bringing home another mouth to feed. . . . that has to be a tough situation. I feel for the men.
I have always felt for the guys. Hillari. And I’ve always felt it gets less attention and all is not as it appears…. thanks for this comment. I think the pressure on men is there, just more insidious because it often comes from their nearest and dearest (i.e. partner) making it a no-win. As in “I want kids. I know you don’t, but you’d better have kids or your life will be made (more) miserable. Besides, you’ll love them once they’re here. Of course you will And you’ll Grow Up. And we’ll be a Real Family.” Needless to say there’s probably no getting laid unless there’s the tacit agreement that kids will be a result.
I just read this posting and I thought I would reply….
I toatally agree with this article. I am the poster child of what this article is talking about. I am a single 33 year old guy with no wife or kids. And I have positively no wish for either. I am completely satisfied with my life as it is. I have many friends in my life so my life is far from boring. I am very involved with my church and my own hobbies so I very rarely have downtime.
It seems to me that being single and childless as a lifestyle choice has not yet made it into the totally acceptable in today’s society. I cannot tell you the number of people that look at me crosseyed or consider me a “Kidult” as the article defined. It is unfortunate that the people who decide not to have children are castigated yet in this society. This at least has been part of my experience in this arena.
I also agree that having kids does not make you more mature or “Adult” over people who do not have kids. I have known the most immature individuals who are parents and the most mature people that are childless.
Marriage and children are lifestyle options that you as an individual have to actually want to have and bring into your life. A person must take a realistic inventory of themselves and ask if they actually want to make the neccessary sacrifices that are part and parcel of having children. But I do have an immense amount of respect and admiration for people who do want children and are willing to make the neccessary sacrifices. I think those types of individuals make the best parents, because they actually want to be parents. They did not have kids by default, thusly being stuck raising them while still wanting to live the single life. Anyway……………. Just my two cents on the subject!!!! Good article Britgirl!!!!!!!!! Catch you folks on the web!!!
Steve Timm
I went through a phase where I wondered what was wrong with me because I didn’t want kids. Maybe I was afraid to grow up?
I got over it. I realized something that we tell teenagers all the time — don’t give in to peer pressure just to be cool. Don’t do things you know are not right for you just because you’re afraid to stand out. Frankly, if you become a dad just to prove to someone somewhere that you’re an adult and not a kid anymore, then I feel sorry for your child(ren) and for you. When you do something thoughtlessly just to avoid being branded with a stupid label, THAT is immaturity. When you judge people as less than you just because they made different life decisions, THAT is immaturity.
I must say, I never considered the teenagers with peer pressure analogy. I like that, it’s clever.
I don’t think that adults and teenagers are as different as people want to think. Most of the time the only real difference is what they want and not why they want it. So from an adults standpoint the teenager wants something that the adult doesn’t so the adult will label the teenagers decisions as immature, when the adults decisions are just as much based on social perceptions, peer pressure, and just plain self interest. So when someone makes a different life decision, like being childfree, the critics tend to label it as immature.
Hello all!
First off I would like to convey how horrible I feel for the men who are forced into having kids by others. Being a young woman it never really crossed my mind that men were pressured as well. Coming from a Catholic family, my grandparents and my parents’ generation in our family have been heavy on the getting married and having kids. We’re not talking one or two but upwards of six. I also am looked down upon for being in my 20s, dating, not engaged and not having a child yet. Two of my cousins got pregnant at the same time and it weighed heavily on me as they weren’t engaged or
married.
It was actually quite an ordeal for my boyfriend due to my emotions/ hormones raging. Before we started dating we had talked about kids and had agreed that we both want to be able to give our kids the best possible life, which wasn’t then and still isn’t now. Of course that didn’t stop me from calling him up right away and saying I wanted kids. To my shock he actually said yes which rightfully left me dumbfounded. I’ve gone through a few phases like that but after each one I make sure to re-explain that now is not the time for kids no matter what. In fact I will admit I never even thought about how my boyfriend felt, which does make me a crappy girlfriend, I admit. One must understand also that before he knew me, my boyfriend had gotten a girl pregnant. He didn’t know this and she only told him she had been AFTER she had had an abortion, so he is understandably already “jumpy” about having kids. (In my lapses of judgement I have occasionally forgotten this and when I remember it kills me).
Still after reading things from guys like Mark & Josh, I do feel for them. If it came down to it and my boyfriend did say that he didn’t want kids I would probably need a day or two to myself, just so that mentally I could prepare myself so to speak.
I love kids and have an affinity for them. I mean after raising twelve cousins and various family members’ kids I know how unpleasant it can be. There are times I can’t wait to give them back. Still I digress, if it came down to it I would stay with my boyfriend. I have already faced the issue of possibly being infertile and I didn’t choose my boyfriend
for just kids. I love him for him.
I find it unfair that both sexes are practically forced into having children. In my family it will be blasphemy if I don’t but I hate being considered a breeding piece of meat. The way I see it now is that when my boyfriend and I do engage in sex I give him the option of wearing a condom or not. I am on the pill already and it is his choice if he wants the extra protection. So far he’s refused and should I get pregnant, well that’ll be something we’ll deal with together. We are perfectly clear about what we want and how we feel about kids and I feel that if by some slim chance the pill fails and no condom was used that it was meant to be. In our relationship I am not our to ensnare him like I said we both really aren’t ready. Plus there is the issue of him running out of the relationship. That is the last thing I want and he comes first. If I can’t keep him in a relationship well then that’s how it’s gonna be. An innocent child should not have to suffer or be used as a pawn. I just refuse to do that as it goes against my morals.
We also think that you don’t need to be married to raise a child which I personally think is a good thing. The way I see it is since we both know how we feel the ball is in his court. If he wants us to get married he will propose and when/if he is ready for a child he will bring it up.
If he doesn’t then that’s it. If he does well that’ll be a new adventure.
Still I must add that I feel so sorry for the men who feel pressured into having kids. It is wrong and I wish you all the best of luck with finding your own happiness. You aren’t “kiddults”. In fact, I might even use it in a playful way to describe my boyfriend because I love the childlike side he still has. You all just need to try and take pride in yourselves. Don’t let some bitches bring you down.
thank you for this blog. in this society we need much more of this and much less of the pressure to reproduce. i have no less than five friends whose girlfriends/wives felt that it was their duty to decide for them it was time to “grow up”. two of them are really good fathers who did the right thing and left, fought for as much custody as they could get and do everything in their power to raise their daughters well and combat the obviously insane influence of the mother. two of them gave in to the pressure to “grow up” completely, stayed with the mother and battle frequent fits of depression, alcoholism, and suicidal urges. the last one had been about to leave his baby obsessed girlfriend when he found out she was pregnant. now he’s staying and drinks himself to sleep every night as he mourns the passing of the slightest possibility of ever having the life he wanted. i view those who pressure others into reproducing no differently than i view picketers outside of an abortion clinic. it’s sick and it’s wrong and it’s arrogant to believe you know what is best for another. sorry. this might not even be that relevant to your blog, but even though i am a woman the societal standard that men owe women babies has seriously affected my life and the lives of friends that i am very close to. it starts with pressure and talking down to them about still being children and if they don’t cave in to that it ends with deceit. what happened to the last man i mentioned is very fresh and he is very close to me and it hurts to watch him die a little every time i talk to him. i’m just venting
“i view those who pressure others into reproducing no differently than i view picketers outside of an abortion clinic.”
Yes, I think anti-abortionists are the ultimate “oopsers”. Sorry about what’s happening to your friends.
It’s actually very relevant and thanks for sharing. It’s a real shame when people bring pressure to bear on those they purportedly love in order to get something they want. And it is very arrogant for one to think they know “what’s best” for another person. Yet when it comes to children those who have them seem to feel that gives them carte blanche to tell other s they need to have them – as do those who want them.
If you are a guy who has no desire to have children and the woman you are with wants to, The sad truth of the matter is your world is no longer protected, you are not safe.
No matter how wonderful she is and how strong your love is there is very little chance she will see the logic of not being shackled to parenthood.
How many men have given in,given up and led a life that was never what they chose? How may men cry quietly in to their pillows every night knowing that they totally gave up on them selves and their real dreams of romantic adventure?
Men think about who and what you are! You may have much more to offer this world as a “free” man not just another breeding number…
Basically, RUN!
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