Childfree… And Coping With The Grandma Effect
25 02 2008Recently a newcomer my blog sent me an email. In it she said she was happy being child free and supported by her partner. A good situation to be in as I’m sure many would agree. What wasn’t so great was the pressure from certain families to produce grandkids.
Make no mistake, a bingo can appear in many guises and from people who know you (and therefore who should know better) as well as strangers. In fact, I believe the worst bingoes come from family. Where you don’t have completely supportive parents, you will more often than not have to square your shoulders… and face the pressure to re-produce, which, if you live in close proximity to them or see them often can be hard to escape. The pressure can often be accompanied by feelings of guilt – parents are adept at playing the guilt card to the hilt when it suits them – unless you’re able to:
- develop a thick skin
- be prepared to state or restate your child free intentions
- steadfastly avoid treading on the liberally sprinkled land-mines or
- move to a different country
Either way, the pressure to have children so that someone can have grandchildren is still very prevalent and it can be unsettling to have to deal with pressure from one or more of your parents. They know all the buttons to press.
I covered this topic about a year ago and while I acknowledge that for some parents the desire for grandchildren runs deep. However, like those who say they “need” a child to feel fulfilled, (or for whatever reason) neither children nor grandchildren are a personal “need” they are a desire. So putting pressure, however subtle, on children to have children is self-centred – again only the needs of the ones who desire the grandchildren seem to come into play.
And while I am fortunate not to be under parental pressure to have kids, I know there are many other childfree people who are.
Of all the bingos childfree people get this is one of the most devastating.
Because, while we can say that a decidedly childfree person should be strong enough to stand up to such parental pressure, it can be extremely difficult. Even though the decision to be childfree is yours or your and your partner’s. Even though logic tells you when parental guilt is at play, it is still hard to shake free of it and even if you do, it’s energy sapping. If, as a childfree person, you are still feeling your way around your decision, the feeling (real or imagined) that you are depriving a parent (usually the mother) of something that would make them happy isn’t a pleasant one. For all childfree people it’s frustrating, unfair and irritating – particularly when you’ve said time and again that you don’t wish to have kids.
Some childfree couples avoid coming out with the truth to avoid the ensuring conversations… and the fact that they feel they’ll hurt their parents if they do tell them that, actually they’ve decided not to have kids. It isn’t worth the hassle they’ll get. There are some parents who simply refuse to believe that as a woman you don’t want your own kids, so what often happens is what you say is ignored anyway.
Instead you ‘re probably going to be regaled with stories like…
“So and so had a baby and made her mother SO happy….” Or, on getting married “when can I expect the grandchildren..? You don’t want to leave it too late, you know.” “When are you going to have kids? I’m desperate for grandchildren.”
And more.
Many parents seem to have no problem at all telling their children how unhappy they will be if they (the children) don’t reproduce their own children (and grant their own wish to be grandparents). If you’re from certain cultures, and you don’t want to have children, you will become a social pariah – regardless of your accomplishments hitherto, if you aren’t breeding, you’re a failure and intense pressure will be brought to bear to ensure they have children.
What I wonder is, when parents are asking or expecting their children to make “them grandparents”, or provide them grandchildren do they really care about whether it’s right for their children? If they did, then surely they wouldn’t pressure them – however subtly – to reproduce. Hopefully the more childfree people are confident in their choice and the more support they have, the less effective the parental guilt card will be.
Until then, childfree people will have to keep standing their ground, cope with, as well as resist the pressure to reproduce.
Comments? I’m hoping that anyone who is under the pressure to re-produce will get some insights from both this article and the comments and perhaps even share their experience. We all learn something from the experiences of others.
Technorati Tags: child free, childfree, childfree, childfree
Fortunately, my parents have never pressured me to breed as they respect that I do not swing that way. Also, I am immensely grateful that they taught me to think and live for myself, as opposed to just following “LifeScript(tm)”.
My inlaws-to be are total “You need to make us grandbabies now” types. They already have 4 female grandchildren, but apparently they aren’t good enough because a boy is needed to carry on the family name. I know this is a crock of bull, but feel sorry for my husband to be, as he gets the brunt of their guilt trip. He’s IN the family, so I guess they feel they can be harder on him than me. I can’t wait until we’re all legally married…I’ve always been completely honest with them, and will continue to do so when they come sniffing around my ovaries. They haven’t pulled the “we need a boy” card with me, but when they do I plan to enlighten them of the following:
A. The gender of a naturally produced child can not be guaranteed. Do they suggest we try and abort until that almighty boy is made?
B. If they want a grandson so bad, one can always be adopted. That’s how they got their own kids.
C. It’s disgusting to me that 4 wonderful female grandchildren aren’t good enough.
D. YOUR happiness, or lack there of, has nothing to do with our decision. If we had it, we’d have to change our entire lives to raise it, and we will not be doing that.
E. I’ve told them time and time again that I can really only tolerate children when I’m drunk. To quote an actual conversation between myself and one of his sisters: her-”You are so good with the kids”, me-”I am drunk and kids love drunks”. Do you seriously think that is the qualification of a good mother?
My mother tried that nonsense for a minute. She had been estranged from my late younger sister and I for 15 years. When the old woman decided to grant us an audience after all that time, she was disappointed to learn that my younger sister had given up both of the kids she had for adoption. Ignoring whatever difficulties my sister had in making that decision, Ma kept pestering her about when she would have another child. My sister was adamant about not having anymore.
Ma would go behind my back and ask my sister, “Do you think Hillari will have any children?” This was despite of the fact that I had told her I was childfree. Once, I grumbled about something inappropriate a child had done towards me. Ma snapped, “Okay, we all know you don’t like children.” She was telling me, in so many words, to shut up about it. It also revealed her frustration at not being a grandmother. Seeing how she didn’t want to be bothered with her own children, I found it egregious that she felt she was entitled to grandchildren at all.
Thank goodness my late father didn’t care. Like Ma, he was neglectful towards his kids. He wasn’t crazy about kids in general, and didn’t like being known as a grandpa (my half-sister has three children). The less kids around him, the better.
Oh boy. I think this starts off when parents automatically assume their children will have children. It’s in the language parents use with their children. For example, “Just wait until YOU have kids!” when you’ve been misbehaving. I saw this on a mother’s sig file, “When they have kids, we’ll see kharma at work!” or something like that. Then, there’s a coworker who, when she got married, told me about how a woman approached her and told her to save something from her wedding (don’t remember what) so that when her daughter (coworker) got married and had children her daughter could use the same thing.
Do you know how loaded and how many assumptions are in that wee italicized phrase there? eeps!
My boyfriend (with whom I live) has a sister who is married. I don’t recall off hand if I’ve mentioned this on this blog before, but I found out last fall that her and her husband have been going through IVF treatments. (Boyfriend knows how I feel about IVF treatments…) Since they haven’t worked, his mother has been pressuring his sister to adopt. Apparently, the pressure has been pretty hard. His parents know he doesn’t want kids, and as long as he’s with me, there’s no way he’ll be having children. (In my boyfriend’s family, it’s just him and his sister, so if his sister doesn’t have children, his parents won’t have grandchildren. And with me, I’m an only and have been sterilized, so there’s no way my mother will be a grandmother.)
It’s also in the conversation in the people around these wanna be grandparents. His parents eat at a particular restaurant all the time, so they know the owner, I’ll refer to him as “D.” D had twins two years ago. I remember sometime last year when D had come by our table with me, my boyfriend, and his parents just to chat. He was whining about how he no longer has any time to do anything, having the twins and being the owner of a restaurant, and being a husband, and blah blah blah, whine whine whine. Then that was followed up with, “Oh, but I love them.” Ok, I don’t knock that he loves his twin boys, that’s not my point. Then at some point towards the end of the conversation when he was going back to tending his restaurant he gave a “manly” pat on my boyfriend’s arm and laughed and loudly asked, “So! When are YOU going to have the bambino’s? You NEED to have them SOON before your parents get too old to ENJOY them!”
Boy, was there an uncomfortable moment at THAT table. My boyfriend’s mother just laughed, his dad just grunted (but then he’s a big man and does tend to grunt - heh) and my boyfriend, oh, I love him, laughed and simply said, “oh no.. THAT’S not going to happen.” I wanted to say, “You’re assuming we even want kids.” But I didn’t. I just didn’t want to bother as his parents eat there all the time. First of all, I was annoyed that I was sitting Right There and MY thoughts, feelings, or anything about *ME* wasn’t even taken into consideration. Oh, I’m a woman, I must AUTOMATICALLY want kids, right?
We actually had an opportunity a few months later when D mentioned the kid thing again to us, with my boyfriend’s parents right there. He said, to my boyfriend, “When are you having kids?!?” My boyfriend said, “I told you, man, I don’t want kids.” He addressed me and said, “And neither does she.” The look of incredulity on D’s face, he asked me, “You don’t want kids?” Me, “No. I don’t want them. I don’t even like them.” He could not even begin to fathom that I didn’t want kids, much less even like them.
Last night’s dinner with his family - at the same restaurant no less - had a man dining with his two sons, one of whom was a toddler. I heard that toddler shout and I hadn’t even gone into the restaurant. Needless to say, that kid was a pain in the butt. Yelling, screaming, and the man had feeble attempts at keeping him behaved. I don’t even remember how my boyfriend’s mother got on this little speech. I think she related some story about my boyfriend when he was a little boy. But she went on and on and on about how little boys were great (keep in mind, they DO want their last name to be “carried on” - fortunately for me, this is NOT important to my boyfriend - see why I’m with him? hehehe :D) and then she went on and on about how 10 was the perfect age for a little boy and how they were so interesting and blah blah blah.
It wasn’t until a few minutes of listening to her that I began to wonder. Was she trying to convince us how awesome she thinks boys are? Even while there were TWO YOUNG BOYS in the restaurant acting up and yelling - boys that even HER HUSBAND was giving the father dirty looks to? Is she so full of baby-rabies and so anxious to have grandchildren that she’s trying to extoll their “virtues?” I don’t know as I’m not one to readily and easily take on guilt that someone is trying to lay on me. I had enough of that with my own mother that trying to make me feel guilty is not easy. I have nothing to feel guilty about - I have commited no crime. (And “guilt” is a judgement, don’t forget that!)
But those thoughts did cross my mind after minutes of her just saying how awesome, intelligent, interesting, etc. etc. that boys at age 10 were and how it was a perfect age, blah blah blah blah..what about all the OTHER ages? Huh? I noticed that my boyfriend wasn’t saying anything either. He just kept eating. I just kept eating. I wasn’t saying anything, and neither was my boyfriend’s dad.
I think our feelings and attitudes were quite evident regarding children when she was done raving on and on about how great little boys were, my boyfriend totally and COMPLETELY changed the subject by turning to his dad when she was done yakking and asked him a question about something completely unrelated to children. I didn’t say anything myself, continued to eat, and let the conversation that my boyfriend started to continue on. Really. I have no idea what was up with his mother, but for the first time she really laid it on thick about how great kids (boys specifically) were around us. And we’ve been dating for 4 years. They’ve known this whole time I don’t want children, and even my boyfriend told them before we met he didn’t want children. I wonder if she’s almost as obsessed as baby-obsessed women who want their own. But this is the “We want to be grandparents NOW” version.
My mother, on the other hand, is either in denial, or wanting to keep hope. She knows that 7 years ago when I had my weight loss surgery I also had my tubes tied. And like I said, I’m her only kid so there went her hope of grandchildren. (She wasn’t a great mother anyway, so it’s not like I would have wanted my kids around her anyway.) There was a situation a year after where she thought I might “have something to tell her.”Good lord, I wasn’t even DATING someone, much less married. Where in the world was her “good Catholic upbringing” at that moment? Huh?
It’s all around us. The conversation of babies, having babies, child-worship, and how we must breed, reproduce, carry on the family name. Regardless of what the genes themselves hold. (My boyfriend’s reasons for not wanting kids is due to having Celiac Disease, Multiple Sclerosis, and many other bad genetics. Me, I just don’t like kids and have always felt nautious at the thought of pregnancy.)
At anyrate, I know this is long, probably longer than Britgirl’s original post! Many apologies. But her post brought to mind several incidences that at the time I was not totally aware of until a few minutes into the conversation. As I related above. It’s not always subtle, but sometimes it is. And in all of this, I don’t think the wanna-be grand parents even realize what they’re doing. Remember, they’re human beings themselves who wanted children and had them (you) and so they probably couldn’t fathom their OWN children not wanting children of their own.
My parents have been saying, all that matter is me being happy. But somehow, I can tell they have not given up the hopes for grandchildren.
The problem is, that I can see how my relationship to parents would be even better, if I had kids. I would have brought new happiness and meaning into their lives.
One of my mothers sisters, became a grandmother less than a year ago. My mother is almost not even allowed to hold that baby, and I can see how this hurts.
The other day, I made a comment about adoption to my father. He has been the most active person for me to reproduce, but earlier said he and my mother respected my choice. When he then posted so many comments about meaning of life etc… its obvious to me how my father really wants me to reproduce.
Taking the step to become a parent, is the one thing in life I want do, just to please my parents. No matter how much I cherish them.
The same way I cannot not change their decision to reproduce, they should not try to change my decision about NOT to reproduce. I know they care, so its better to spend that care supporting the decision made. But I think they are afraid of me ending up alone in life. And maybe the comments is really because they dont want me to make such important decision, without been thinking it through properly.
When I hear about businesses dismissing employees and about challenges in the local economy, or about children with hyperactivity syndromes, I become even more decided about my choice. I simply dont want to be one of those people striving to death, just to get ends meet.
I still remember Britgirls words, about how being CF is an process that needs adaption. You have to find your way. My choice have become more firm, even the last few months. I think when you stop listening to the doubts you may feel, and instead focus on why you made the choice, you are on the right track to build a meaningful CF life. But it certainly takes more planning, than having someone pointing you all the way, like if you had a child.
Hmm…”great” when the attempt to edit failed..
All these comments bring up even more interesting points.
Feh - I find it totally nauseating when people blithely say they want to keep trying for a particular sex - usually a boy - to “carry on the family name” or whatever stupid reason they give. Think of the inferiority complexes they are handing down. Plus the additions to the population while the try for what is probably a crapshoot anyway. I think you’re right when you say that he parents don’t even realize what they are doing… they have a sense of entitlement to “grandchildren” that society supports totally. No wonder they can’t believe anyone could not want kids. But, i also think some are in denial.
I note that you said “when” as opposed to “if ”
Hillari - isn’t it odd that those who have been bad parents think they have an entitlement to grandchildren?? The other reason I think parents are so keen for their kids to produce grandchildren is equally self-serving… they want it to be payback time. They want their kids to suffer what they went through and go through every bad moment they did. Many don’t even bother to hide it… I’ve heard ” just wait till you have kids…” too many times from parents. in fact many live in total anticipation of their “ungrateful” kids getting theirs through their own kids. Must be galling when they turn around and say they don’t want them.
Lurker - very interesting points too… somehow I think many parents still hope their children will change their minds and have children. Even when they’ve said so many times it’s not going to happen, they seem to think that we’re not serious - and that we’re going to change our minds. The problem becomes when we take on their guilt (or judgement as CFS6 rightly says) and make it ours. Like you say you can’t make such a huge step just to please your parents…
CFsince6 - “It’s all around us. The conversation of babies, having babies, child-worship, and how we must breed, reproduce, carry on the family name. Regardless of what the genes themselves hold.”
Yep. And there’s literally nothing to counteract it.
Oops, my original reply was just gobbled up in the ether.
I was thinking that parents always kick up a fuss about the choices their children make which contradict their own values or decisions. I’ve been grilled about my vegetarian lifestyle for 18 years now, and still get asked when I’m going back to meat. My now husband and I were asked for ten years when we were finally going to get married until we did. And my poor brother has endured the “you just need to find the right girl” comment since he came out twenty years ago.
I wish parents would let go and accept that they have not raised children, but freethinking adults.
luckily my mum dislikes 99% of every child. she has seen bad children, bad parents, she rants quite a bit MORE than me about these monsters.
She says she loved me as a kid, but she doesnt like anyone elses or even grandkids.
my surname is one of the most common names on the planet. 4th or 5th
Again, apologies (not related directly to the post), don’t know if anyones seen this…?
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?forumID=4369&edition=1&ttl=20080227163223
“Can mothers admit to being unhappy?”
I like to read comments in order of “readers recommended”.
On the grandparents thing, I think your spot on with the whole ‘payback’ thing to parents demanding grandkids. I think they feel they’re owed, and they want their kids to see how much hard work it was for them to raise them. This way they get all the joys of grandkids and can hand them back after a few hours. Its awful. I can see parents putting pressure on their kids for grandkids for years and years, saying how wonderful it is along with all the guilt tripping, just to say as soon as it’s born “I told you how much hard work it was raising YOU, now your gonna find out for yourself how difficult it is!!…Muhahahaha!!”
Ugh!
UKShell, I read your post and the thought occurred to me that parents who want to be grandparents are STILL speaking just as selfishly and continue to speak, believe, feel, and want, just as selfishly as any OTHER parent, without regard to anyone else but themselves.
Which brings me to my next question. If one is so selfish, and it takes having a child to become selfLESS, then why aren’t these wanna-be grandparents selfLESS enough to QUIT PUTTING PRESSURE on their children to have children?
UkShell. The readers comments/BBC news, were as usual very interesting. I always find more solidation for my choice after reading those.
Nice to see so many others, who have escaped the payback time…
Feh, I can’t see your comment. I don’t understand why. Could you possibly repost it? (If britgirl doesn’t mind…)
Weird…my last well thought post didn’t post. Though when I click to edit, I can see everything….damn.
Anyway, this is one of the best essays I’ve ever read on childfreedom…(I’ve left the address out because that seems to be what was causing the problem.)
it ends with questions people should ask themselves before having children, including:
“When I daydream about having a child, do I picture the child doing certain kinds of activities, such as little league? How do I feel about the child engaging in activities that I am not interested in, strongly dislike, or disapprove of? (E.g., if I enjoyed contact sports as a child, will I be disoriented by my son’s love of the piano and interior decorating? Will I need to “keep trying” if I have a girl?)”
and
“Do I recognize that each child is an individual with its own personality and preferences, and that I can only influence these to a limited extent?”
Sadly, I do not think many potential parents ask themselves these questions.
http://enlightenment.supersaturated.com/essays/text/carolynray/shame_children.html
Here’s the link to the essay I mentioned.
Feh, that’s an awesome essay. And thank you for reposting.
Feh. Read this essay earlier. A real decision-maker.
People usually do not try to influence you when it comes to studies, jobs, which house or car to buy etc…But to have a child or not, is something they have strong opinions about.
Where did this sudden concern for our best come from?
It really makes no sence!
I am very fortunate that my parents never pressured me about producing grandkids. My late mother always told anybody who asked her when I was going to make her a grandmother “It’s none of my business when or if they have kids.” My dad, I think, is disappointed that I didn’t have kids, but he has never expressed it directly. He now lives in a seniors community, and when he’s asked if he has grandkids, the answer is usually “Sadly, no.” He was a wonderful father, and he’d have been a wonderful grandpa, but that was not a legitimate reason for me to have kids. It’s funny, though, that I still have a bit of lingering guilt that I let my father down. It’s the only regret of my CF decision, and I really only started to feel that way after my mother passed away. But that guilt/regret is definitely not a sufficient reason.
My MIL pressured us up to the point where I had a hysterectomy. Even though we had repeatedly said there would be no kids from us, she kept hoping we’d change our minds (despite knowing that I had a history of female-type problems and was 40 years old). Even two lovely granddaughters from my BIL/SIL were not enough — there was still no boy to carry on the family name. She’s now accepted that and is taking joy in the grandkids she has.
I just don’t get it… maybe it’s the revenge thing, maybe it’s the satisfaction that their own children were now fully “grown up”, maybe it’s that the grandkids make them feel young, maybe it’s just the next stage in the “life script”.
Lisa. Thanks for your story. My mother had cancer a few years ago, but luckily still going strong. Maybe thats the reason my father has such strong mind about me reproducing? I can surely reckognize the feeling of guilt toward them, and if it was not for the parts about parenting that I dont appreciate at all, I would for sure done my part to serve them grandchildren. But becomming a parent is simply to serious decision to make, just for the sake of my parents joy. Hopefully I will be able to bring them happiness in other ways than grandchildren.
The last thing I’ll have to say on this subject is….if you don’t want to raise kids, don’t have them. Sure, Mom and Dad may be sad they don’t have grandkids, but if they have a REAL BURNING urge to interact with children in a meaningful way, why don’t they do some volunteer work with children? Mentoring, scouting, daycare are all ways to develop deep relationships with children and if they really wanted/needed that sort of interaction, I’d think they’d do that.
Feh, remember, it’s different when they’re your own.
The second last thing I have to say about this…is that my parents are already interacting with others kids.
The last thing I have to say about this is: S N I P P E D!…
I think it’s equally as tragic when these parents want grandkids then find themselves taking on the role as parents when the real parents can’t be bothered.
Darn, I can’t seem to get that enlightenment/supersaturated link to work…?Oh well, I’ll try again later.
Lurker - yes, a lot of the comments on the bbc ‘have your say’ forum were very encouraging. There is obviously a lot of CFers out there!
CFSS - totally agree. It’s a complete contradiction isn’t it?! the more I come here to this site and read other peoples comments the clearer it becomes to me! So you supposedly have to have kids to become selfless, yet the act of having kids is selfish. So the same applies to parents wanting/demanding grandkids. Yet somehow they are not *already* selfless enough (eventhough they should be by now, because…well…they’ve had kids right?!) to quit baggering on about grandkids?! It’s totally messed up.
Feh - totally. I’d not even thought about that. Like you said, parents so desperate for grandkids should focus their energy elsewhere instead of baggering on about wanting grandkids of ‘their own’. I mean, they’ve certainly got the experience right?! They’re more than qualified to help other less fortunate kids in different ways.
Wow! I don’t think you guys need me… I can just sit back, leave you to it and enjoy the conversation.. LOL.
Anyway
Feh - did I mention the old “it has to be their flesh and blood thing…?” And they want to have something to show off to their friends - as well as payback of course!
UKShell - thank you for those great links. I had come across that essay a while back and I am glad you posted the link here. Once again it shows that pretty much all the reasons except one for having children are flimsy. The only really good reason is totally about the child… and no-one ever mentions that. They’d rather be sheeple - I do love that word
Yes, and the key here is “children of their own.”
Feh - and the fact that Mom and Dad may be sad isn’t enough reason to bring a life into this world.
Lisa - I don’t think we’ll ever quite “get it” really, because being childfree we don’t see the need to use children as any sort of self actualisation tool. I understand (at least I think I do) in part why people want grandchildren and it is indeed for many of the reason you mentioned and others have mentioned in addition to the post.And also parents are a product of their time, when if you didn’t have children you were not respected… worse than it is today. I just don’t think it’s fair to pressure someone into having a child just because they want to be grandparents. It’s comes back to it being all about them. It’s strange how we’re expected to respect their feelings and have kids, yet they don’t respect our wish not to.
Unfortunately, as has been said, society still says the exact opposite. So childfree people simply have to be able to stand up for what’s right for them personally. But I never, ever underestimate the power parents can wield over their children.
Luckily, for me and my husband, my parents understand our desire not to breed. They know we don’t want children, ever, and respect that. My mom jokes all the time about her four-legged grandson, my shih-tzu, Anakin. My sister has two boys and lives in the same town as our folks so my parents aren’t without grandbabies. My littlest sister, only 19 years old, got married in January, and so there’s an excellent chance she and her husband will be having a family in the coming years. It takes a lot of pressure off of my husband and I.
My in-laws, however, are less obliging. They don’t really say anything, but they’re thinking it. My husband and I have been married for 8 years, we don’t have kids and they’re wondering where they are, I’m sure of it. My husband was actually adopted and has no siblings, unless you count his two step-siblings. His father told us one day, while driving us around town when we were in to visit them, that we should consider naming our first born son after his father, or perhaps after my husband’s mother’s father. He even asked me about my father’s name –my parents and Matt’s parent’s have never met, thank goodness! We sort of nodded and changed the subject, but the implication was there. They’ve not mentioned it since, hopefully they’ll mind their own business, but who knows.
Kristyn’s post reminded me of a question my mom asked me one time. “Are your two cats supposed to be my furry grandchildren?” My response was, “No. They’re cats. Not kids. If I had wanted kids, I would have had them.” She hasn’t said anything about that anymore either. Hehe. side note: I hate when I take my cats to the vet and the vet techs there call me their “mama.” I don’t say anything, but I do cringe and wince.
I read this item with interest. I am a childfree grandmother if that can be, in that my son and his wife do not want children. their choice , and is no one elses business anyway what their choices are. Before they got married my lovely daughter in law said she wanted to speak to me, OK, and she asked me what I thought of them being childfree. I told her outright, it is nothing to do with me, I made my choices when I was young and when children were totally different from the horrible (on the whole) neanderthal looking, miniature adults that we see on the streets. Told her I would rather they had none than for another unwanted child to be put on this earth, if they change their minds (which I doubt) then that is OK with me as well, but with the proviso, that I am not an unpaid childminder, I do not alter my life to become a parent again in older age, I have done my bit raising my sons, and that is all that I expect to do.
What do these women think they need for their offspring to produce infants for them to be able to say to friends they are a Grandmother.
I for one loved my sons, but there is nothing written in stone that you have to like all children, There are some that I do like but they are the exception rather than the rule.
When you have worked with the most evil children on the planet, along with evil parents I may add, it does nothing to make you want to see more and more of this inflicted on the community.
Why should unmarried women cohabit and yet claim money for the upkeep of these children, where does the funding come from for this? You and me and everyone else who have morals and principles that’s who provides for them.
hello BritGirl, i can’t take any credit for the essay link, i think that was Feh… I only posted the bbc forum link to the mums debate
I’ve finally managed to read the enlightenment essay link, (for some reason I couldn’t open it the other day….darn computers). It’s certainly a great read, thanks Feh
Feh - my apologies - thank you for the link!
very interesting points - particularly your point on the brag factor… many simply want to be able to say “I’m a grandmother,” to their friends. One more example of children being used to satisfy an adult desire.
Mercsmum - I like your style
Krystn - hi, thanks for dropping in and I hope you’ll be back…believe me, your in-lawas are thinking about it. They’re dropping the big hints thinking they’re being subtle. Of course, they’re not at all. I guess they are in for a surprise
clever woman mercs mum is……………..yes she is my mum.. ;-)..
My Mom used the “S” word on me. Came right out and accused me of being selfish for not giving her grandchildren.
Here’s the thing - I live 1000 miles away from my parents. They don’t travel so they’ve never been to visit me in 20 years.
She genuinely expected that I would go through the physical trauma, the stress, the financial burden, not to mention the mental and emotional trauma of having kids that I didn’t want… so that she had cute photos for her wallet and someone to buy toys for at Christmas. And that I would haul the whole kit and kaboodle, stroller, diaper bags and all, onto a plane once (or more) a year so she could see the little buggers.
We had a conversation that day that gave a whole new meaning to the word selfish. And there have been no mention of babies since.
Just the word “reproduction” revolts me - makes me think of cows with their floppy udders and silly looking daschund dogs with erections - eek! As for people’s “need” for grandchildren - what a bizarre idea. I’m willing to allow for a “need” for children - maybe nothing else of interest cropped up for a person, who knows. But a need for grandchildren? Someone to send gifts to and visit a couple of times a year? Isn’t it easier to cultivate a plant? Or get to know your neighbors? My parents attempted to impart their wisdom on me, warning me that it will “only benefit my husband,” since he’s older but that I would regret it later in life when he presumably dies before me and I’m all alone. (Eye roll) Riiight, so let me have a child I don’t want to spite my husband and ruin both our lives and his hopes for retirement, yeah! It’s so silly. I think now that I finished college, got a job and got married, my parents have nothing to talk about with their friends. And thats all they really want - some pictures and stories to share with their friends. Why not get a hobby, you know?