Religion and the compassion it can teach would do one heck of a lot more good in this world if people were to come together over a shared belief in pleasing their God(ess), instead of becoming so obsessed with the silly little differences. However, there are idiots in every section of society and there will always be people taking things too far. Religion has done some terrible things but it also has the power to do a lot of good if people would just see past the little differences. I’m lucky enough to have some wonderful Christian friends who *are* accepting of the fact that some people don’t believe etc. and even of the fact that I’m childfree.

On the point of sheltered kids, I have seen a lot of documentaries on fundie families and the way in which they don’t teach their kids certain things/shield them from the world to me personally is disgusting. The one girl was not allowed to even have a cup of coffee with a male friend in university (she was studying to be a lawyer) and the censorship over things like Harry Potter as far as I’m concerned is going a bit far. I personally think that ignorance about other cultures/lifestyles can be one of the most dangerous things in this world. I had a sheltered non-religious upbringing but I’m so thankful I was at least allowed to see *some* things and ask questions.

Not all hope is lost-I grew up in a household obsessed with censorship/very overprotective of me and I went the other way so sometimes people rebel. Also, there is always the fact that forbidden fruit tastes the best and some of these kids will be driven into the real world just because parents say that it’s off-limits. I once spoke with a guy whose family disowned him because he left the church and they had an unbelievably strict belief system. He had no regrets.

*Hmph*… Was what you said so bad that she had to delete it? Too bad that some people don’t realize that running a blog with open commenting means you have to take your lumps as well as the highs. I think I only deleted one comment on my blog; it was a harassing comment.

Peggy - I don’t believe she gets death threats at all. Who can be bothered? She hasn’t said anything worth killing her over. Anyone making death threats to anyone is as stupid as her post. But it makes a good promo line for her self-justification… after all, she can think herself a saint for “speaking out against sinful behaviour”. But IF she is getting said threats…she could claim martyrdom in a heartbeat

Ashley - no way are you spamming this blog. I read your posts on the other blog by the way… great responses.

I also wanted to add… that even though I know they exist, it’s sometimes scary to realize that there are some people with such closed and in some cases poisonous minds. Even IVF is supposed to be evil! Really?

/sarcasm
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Kay:

Well, why would childfree people who are happy and comfortable with their lifestyle want to read a Catholic NFP blog

There are these neat little things called google blog search and google alerts. When you type in childfree you are given a list of blogs that have recently written on the topic. If you get google alerts, you get one everytime there is a post made containing the word childfree. Childfreedom is very much an online community since most of us don’t know many childfree people in real life. We use these features to find more people like us. So everytime NFPworks posts one of these it comes into our inbox or shows up on a blog search. And when you see a blog asking if you’re evil you tend to take notice.

Louise:

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. My parents divorce made me, my sister, and them 10 times happier. Who do you think convinced them to go ahead with it because it wouldn’t ruin their life? Me. I felt nothing but relief after they divorced and I loved them both. Life isn’t as black and white as you seem to think it is. Other people getting divorced may ruin your life. But it seems that people doing things you don’t want them to greatly affects you.

Now I have to apologize. I went back on what I said about not posting a response on NFP’s blog. I had an issue with a point of her discussion and I wanted to get it off of my chest. Well, here’s my verbal spewage…

“NFP, I wasn’t going to post here, as I felt I no longer needed to justify my wife and I’s decision on the CF life. However, I have a big problem concerning one point of your discussion in all of this. I take this very personally, so I consulted my NIV on the subject.

Thanks for reading. Cheers!”

Of course, I’m most likely spitting in the wind. But I just had to take her to task on this, belief for belief, my interpretation of the Word against hers. In the comments, I was gratified that other Christian and Catholic readers were challenging her as well. But, regardless of all our individual beliefs (believer, atheist, agnostic… whatever!) I think we all agreed that her post wasn’t anything approaching a true apology. Respect for all should be the moral imperative.

“If you think children are a blessing, then what’s the deal with ‘natural family planning’? You accept children as gifts from God, but at the same time, you’re trying to prevent them. Don’t kid yourself: natural family planning is still a trick so you can have sex without the hassle of having a baby: it’s just a lot less effective than a good ol’ condom.

Hypocrites…”

If you feel condemned by me, maybe that’s your conscience

I’ve seen a few of your supporters say something similar. I’m not sure of the logic of your argument. That’s like saying if a person defends themselves after being called a murderer, it must be because they’re guilty. I think it is much more likely that people are flabbergasted at such vehement opposition to a perfectly moral and acceptable lifestyle choice.

Additionally, saying “Oh, so I should have a child I don’t want?” is a strawman; the obvious answer is, “NO! You should WANT the child you were BLESSED WITH.”

That is not a strawman argument. There is a saying: “You can please all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”. All of the people won’t want kids. It has nothing to do with the state of their morals. All of the people aren’t going to be happy with the same life choices. That’s just life. There is nothing sinister or evil about it. The inability to understand that denotes an inability to grasp the complexities of life.

Why are these ‘christians’ so self righteous? Everyone else is supposed to see the light and the error of their ways, but the christian monger never feels the need to bend.

i do hope they will discover the real world, but a few of these homeschoolers, like the duggars they come from affluent families, so they dont need to work, so they are insulated from reality. i do hope some will become somewhat intelligent.

I liked your question as to whether she prayed over her answers… I bet she’d say yes.

“…except for, I am assuming, comments that are inappropriate, bad words, or threatening. ” You mean “bad threatening words” like..er… “childfree?!”

Kristyn - I know just what you mean. I really admire and applauded many of the comments, which in the face of her bogus-apology-rant were so well balanced. Like CFSince Six said, it’s just a pity that her vicious post received so much attention, when it should have been left to wither… I thought of that when I linked to her post.in fact, at one point I wondered if she was for real… sadly yes. But then I thought, attention to her blog doesn’t really matter in the big scheme of things. What mattered was exposing her sham apology for what it was. I don’t think she fully understands what the word “blog” means.

Her post, sorry “apology” is so idiotic and makes her look so daft that I just had to share it with everyone :). And the beauty of it is that everyone said much more than I could have done - even if they couldn’t post

Bright feather (wave!) Totally agree.

Sanne - and she did. Fancy that!

Mercurior - People like her would rarely if ever change their opinions. True. But hopefully even if they teach their kids this misguided stuff, when their kids grow up, and go into the Real World they realize their parents were wrong. Got to feel for the kids though, some have to be de-programmed from this stuff

yes cfsincesix, we can hope, but unlikely as they will know no difference.

Oh, Come on, mercurior, have a *leeeeetle* hope. I mean, *we* grew up under pressure and assumptions we’d have children.

BTW, I grew up Roman Catholic and I was presented with these view points as well. I had good ol’ fashioned Catholic guilt regarding being CF and it wasn’t until my early 30’s when I had a nice long talk with a priest and now I am at peace.

Besides, I am firmly opposed to censorship of any sort. If she’s going to post that sort of idiocy and then delete comments at will when she doesn’t like them, I can’t bring myself to post them at all.

Try though I might, I simply cannot seem to understand why anyone thinks it’s their business that I have decided not to breed? But, I suppose that’s what’s to be expected of the blindly religious.

It’s sad to note that most people who actually do harm to children are not child free, but childed or at the very least claim to “love” children so much that they are driven to work with them (in order to have easier access to abuse them). Even more interesting to note that you feel people who choose to not have children they do not want to do the work of raising are evil.

“they themselves were children once, and oops–thank you to the “fertility idolaters” that were their parents!”
Being a child at one time in your life does not mean you have to create children you do not want to raise. I was a suicidal alcoholic at one time in my life too, and I have no desire to recreate that. Also, my parents do consider my life choices to be a thank you for all the hard work they did to raise someone with common sense, and enough of a back bone to know myself and live within my mental/emotional/physical confines. My parents got the happy child they wanted, and are glad for me to remain happy with my life.
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Feh said,

March 17, 2008 at 6:24 pm

Oh, and I’d add here…my decision to breed only affects me. If my partner really wants a child, he will have to leave and meet someone who shares his beliefs. If my parents want to interact with children more, they will seek out the opportunity to mentor or volunteer with children. When people decide to breed and refuse to do any work to raise their children to be productive members of society, they affect everyone.

However, she “proved me wrong” yet “again” by “allowing” opposing view points. Read her response to me. I am most amused.

(Yes, I use my quotes around various words appropriately.)

This was by no means an “apologia.” When you supposedly apologize and then continue with a justification as to why you did what you originally did completely negates the supposed apology. It’s like saying, “I’m sorry I stole your dress, but if you had only let me borrow it I wouldn’t have had to steal it.”

Did you pray over your apology? You talk about how you “speak in the language of faith because it is the language that you know” - I ask you to consider to also learn the language of “hope” and the language of “charity,” since you speak of, or in, neither.

And as for quoting Ghandi (a product of his times, mind you) and Freud (who was doped up on cocaine and stuck on his own sexual complexes) or any other quotes that support your world view can be equally countered by quotes supporting the childfree lifestyle.

Further, don’t forget that God does hold special in his heart the childfree because they are not burdened with the rearing of children and are free to spread His word. Where as the childed simply spread the word to their own. Not only did the Son of God Himself not have children, but so did many other saints. They simply could not have had children - they would not have had time to spread God’s word.

I realize you will only allow comments that accept your apology or cheer you on, but responses your pathetic attempts at an apology - which is really a thinly disguised show of intelerance, lack of acceptance, and non-generosity - are being displayed and written elsewhere.

I am only sorry that your blog is receiving the attention that it is, since even bad press gives attention to what should simply be left to wither by its own hubris.

I also took a screenshot of my post on her blog.

BTW - In situations such as these, I am torn. I am torn because I know that I commit a spiritual crime. I give up on people like that because I find them hopeless. And so I don’t bother to try and educate.

One more thing: Mercurior I wanted to address teaching their children. Remember, there is some hope that the children themselves can grow up with a mind of their own and break the cycle. Although the likelihood and chances are slim, there’s still a chance. Those are the ones we should not give up on.