On Being Childfree… We Don’t Need A Reason
5 05 2008How can I keep this short and sweet? I could begin by simply stating how nice it would be to see this statement –
“Childfree. No Justification Required.” But, I fear, that’s a long way away. But it is posts like this that make me sorely wish that that day was Today. Or sometime soon at any rate.
The skinny? Simple. If you’re childfree you don’t need to provide a “good reason” for those who simply don’t get why you’re childfree, but who immediately seem to lose no time to assign possible list of “So-called legitimate reasons not to have children.” According to this post:
Finances? Check.
Medical Issues? Check.
Demanding career? Hang on… erm. Yeah. OK. Check.
Don’t have any mothering in you? Hmmm… Check. I think this must include not having the mythical maternal instinct or a tyrannical biological clock.
Just don’t want kids? Pass.
Don’t like kids? Pass – again.
Now, I did not see the original post when CW sent me this link. But from the post it’s obvious that yet again a childed person had seen fit to rant and vent against the childfree, got a rather unexpected reaction, backtracked and offered standard “I’m sorry if I offended… I didn’t mean to…” But note – the apology is interestingly worded… in fact it appears to only include childfree folk “who love children.”
What did I gather from the post. That yet another childed person who knows no childfree people, and probably sees fit to say that it’s ok to be childfree as long as you have a nice neat reason.
Well, here’s the thing. Some childfree people DON’T like children. Some childfree people DO like children. Some can’t tolerate them – and yes, that includes the nasty, wild out of control juves who make life a hell on earth for their parents and whoever happens to be anywhere around them. I won’t include the kids who like to beat up other kids and take their possessions (oh, they’re only 12… or maybe 14). Ah, yes, but they’re precious.
But all that’s an aside. Childfree people don’t need a reason to be childfree, regardless of whether these are assigned by uninformed childed people who can’t seem to see past their own world view.
Chances are we’ve given far more thought to it than most childed people (many of whom clearly should not be parents).
Instead of trying to make excuses for or fathom why childfree people don’t want to pro-create, why don’t childed people pay more attention to people who simply have kids for the many bingo reasons given to the childfree?
Regardless of the the many reasons that childfree people are…childfree, comments like “It’s OK not to have children if (tick the appropriate box) are pretty patronizing – to say the least.
It is OK to choose not to have children for the simple reason that… wait for it… you don’t want them.
Having children is a choice. If you’re childfree (or a fence-sitter for that matter) you should know that you do not need to justify yourself. The demands to justify reasons why you don’t have/want children come from those with children.
So you don’t understand the way some childfree people feel? Get over it. You don’t need to understand. And, as one of ToThe Ends Of The Earth’s commentators said
The choice not to have children is a personal one and not subject to be judged by the childed… or anyone else.
Thanks, but we really don’t require your permission.
And ChrisW – thanks for finding the link!
Let Me Clarify My thoughts on childfreedom
Technorati Tags: Childfree, childfree
Great, I tried to leave a comment to that article. It was deleted. I merely said that there is a broad spectrum of personalities and behaviour on both sides of the fence and there are extremist parents who insist on pushing their agenda on us, just like some extreme cf actively encourage people not to breed. Parents are not asked to justify their choice. Why should we.
I didn’t even insult her, but she felt she should delete any post that is not approving of what she says.
Britgirl said:
And! To extend to that! … only IF you like children! Then it’s ok.
I neither want, nor like, children. When asked why, I simply state that I simply don’t want children. Years ago I quit making up excuses. Because all those “excuses” were simply that, made up. I just do NOT want kids. Period.
I also don’t like to say that I don’t want children because I don’t like children. For one, that then goes into excuses and reasons for not wanting kids and opens up a whole discussion about how it’s different when they’re your own, blah blah blah bleat bleat bah bah bah like the sheep that parents are. I’d rather simply state that I don’t want children. Period. Why? Because. And that’s it.
Another reason is I don’t want to perpetuate that all childfree people are child-haters as so many ignorant parents believe. I know there are childfree who LOVE children. I know a 5th grade teacher who likes her kids in her class. But she’s childfree AND she doesn’t like kids either. Then I know others who love children. So I don’t go around saying that I don’t like children for those reasons.
Chalk this woman up to another ignorant parent who can’t think from another point of view and who CONTINUES to place her own world view on other people. I say this because she feels the need to find a reason for childfree people not wanting kids rather than simply accepting it and moving on. I’m so over these pathetic apologies and attempts at backpedaling that they no longer mean anything to me.
This is my Reply to them, I came here from Mercuriors Site, I have to say This is a wonderful blog.
“Some of those CF sites, are there to get rid of the stresses of the modern world, Which is full of bad parents, and BAD children.
If there wasnt a place to vent ones anger/hurt/upset, then you would have FAR more, violence towards Bad parents.
Do Those ranting sites Hurt you personally? Do you agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion? Do you agree that If you are Upset about a topic, you have the right to vent your anger in a constructive safe way?
I am sure you have ranted about your pet peeves on other sites, Arent they entitled to the same rights as you?
So what if they call them peices of flesh, and other terms, You are not forced to read it. So why go looking for the sites? “
I read the blog post to which you linked. Oddly, there was a post before that one on her blog at http://whereverheleadsme.wordpress.com/2008/04/17/childfreedom/ (ergo the apologies for offending people) and I believe I commented on it, but it appears the author deleted the whole post and comments.
In any event, no, we don’t need to give anyone our reasons for being childfree. However, I have found in the past that when I do share my reasons with people, it opens up a conversation and if that conversation causes someone to look more closely at whether s/he really wants children, no matter what the answer is, it’s been a worthwhile exchange.
Thanks, Britgirl!
On closer inspection, I see what you mean that I didn’t catch at my first reading. Her apology does seem like it was geared towards more specific CF people. At least it was more sincere than the tripe that passed as an “apology” on NFP’s blog.
Nevertheless, I do see your point on the fact that some people do not really need a reason (or more to the point, justification for the reasons) for their life choices, if it’s not harming anyone else. The reasons are our own and not up for debate.
It’s amusing to see the reactions of my coworkers anyways when they ask why my wife and I don’t have children. She hates kids with a passion. When I say that, the reaction is usually muted shock! I personally like kids, but I think I’d be rather volatile father material, based on my past. Even these two reasons just aren’t enough for some persistent baybee lovers, so I just steer clear of the subject whenever possible, so I can foster at least some good relations.
I deleted the previous post because I just thought what I was saying was pretty mean to those of who choose to be childless. I did have a few comments that said that what I said was wrong and that I should not be judgemental of other people.
The truth is, even though some may not give a “reason” for being childfree everyone has a reason. Then again everyone has a reason for having children. Don’t worry you don’t have to explain yourself to me if you choose to not have children. I’m not going to ask why. And whatever the reason may be, I respect it. I just don’t like the hatred on children that some people have. I mean children aren’t horrible people and they don’t deserve to be hated. Then again, I guess it’s a good thing if people hate children and aren’t having them. Think of the type of parents they’d make.
I don’t know how I came along some of the meaner CF websites but they came from a link where Dr. Mohler spoke out against deliberate childlessness. I think that they were probably intentioned that way to seem the CF crowd seem like they were children haters.
Chris W,
I didn’t mean that everyone has to LOVE children. I just don’t like (and not that everyone has to in this case either) when people HATE children. I realize many people don’t LIKE children, fine by me. It’s the hatred, the idea that children are evil people that is kind of wrong. We were all children at one point in our lives and if you HATE children you are in essence hating something you once were.
Now I understand that kids can sometimes annoy you, and venting is fine for that reason. I can understand that some people HATE the idea of parenting, that doesn’t offend me. But hating a child? I’d say it’s more likely you are hating the child misbehavior or screaming or misfit antics.
Gerandia,
I no longer go looking at sites like that. I actually happened to stumble on them. I didn’t search them out, would have been nuts.
Mrs. Ogre,
FTR: I approved your post. Just haven’t been on the site lately.
CFSinceSix:
“Chalk this woman up to another ignorant parent who can’t think from another point of view and who CONTINUES to place her own world view on other people. I say this because she feels the need to find a reason for childfree people not wanting kids rather than simply accepting it and moving on. I’m so over these pathetic apologies and attempts at backpedaling that they no longer mean anything to me.”
Thanks for the personal insult. Had I been an ignorant parent I wouldn’t have listened to some of what the childfree people had told me in response to the deleted post (which I thought was mean). I backtracked and I realized that my POV was essentially flawed and that the CF people deserved an apology for my judgmental remarks.
You don’t need to give me a reason as to WHY you are childfree. I just know everyone has their reasons for what they choose in life whether it be parenting or not parenting. I’m not going to ask you why, that’s your business. And FTR, I have MOVED ON. I haven’t written another post about CFdom in a while lately because it’s kind of irrelevant to my life. I am a parent and that’s my decision and I’m not going to tell anyone else what to do with their life in terms of childbearing. I made a mistake and I moved on. I thought it was cordial to reexamine my thoughts on this issue because, as a result of some response I received, they were flawed. So my mind did change on how I view childfree people. I stopped being judgemental about it and have since left it alone. So could you just let me move on?
Does this site talking about your posts, upset you? So you happened to find That radical CF site, Then you happened to Find this site. BY looking at the comments and the track back.
So You did Come looking for this site, which is childfree.
If you read Dr Mohler about childfree (not childless), about this topic, Why follow his/her link to them. So essentially They caused all the aggravation, Because they have a Blind spot when it comes to children.
Not everyone who is childfree hates children, a lot of us dont like to see children hurt, or abused in anyway. Does that mean we would let them die. NO, So we can’t hate children as you seem to assume. If we went around beating up children, then yes. BUT we don’t.
You are assuming That all childfree are like those radical boards, Which are a rant board, Sometimes they say wow what great kids and parents, Did you ever see any of those topics, Or did you just Check out the bad posts?
Bad parenting, Close minded parenting, Badly behaved children, Parents not disciplining them, Letting children become feral animals. Thats what we object too, and so should you as a parent.
Just because we choose not to have children, doesnt necessarily mean we hate them. I love my cousins kids, i dislike most others, the badly behaved ones. And can you blame us.
mercurior,
One of the commentors on my blog left the link back to this website. That’s how I found out about it.
FTR: I don’t think all childfree people are radical people that hate kids. My post says that.
” Bad parenting, Close minded parenting, Badly behaved children, Parents not disciplining them, Letting children become feral animals. Thats what we object too, and so should you as a parent.”
I do object to bad parenting. And I object to people who think they can parent like that. Children SHOULD be taught to behave, etc.
Since posting that nearly a month ago, I have run across many very nice childfree people. I’ve seen their blogs, postings, whatever and I can understand their POV. THAT is why I no longer feel I should post on this issue because A) I am not childfree myself and B)I shouldn’t judge others decision.
Also, if you browsed around my blog you’d notice there are some stories of bad parenting and bad parenting books. IMO, I would much rather be choose to be childfree than to have kids and treat them like that.
I’m just sick of discussing this issue. I don’t really care about what people decide to do in terms of childbearing. I should’ve never blogged on the issue.
mercurior,
I just saw that someone was trackingback my post. I was curious as to who it was.
And no, I don’t normally frequent CF boards or blogs. It’s kind of useless for me to do that. I just wanted some people who read this post to know that I really don’t hate childfree people and I don’t think they are all evil-child haters in the least.
What can I do to convince you people of that? I haven’t written on CFdom in a while because I shouldn’t. I’ve kept my nose out of issue, so to speak. So why are people still picking on me?
I don’t mind saying that I’m the one who said I found her post through Britgirl’s blog, just because she seemed to be able to express herself clearly, unlike some people who assume immediately that cf are evil and must be wiped off the planet (rah rah rah!). Militarywifey says she doesn’t understand certain aspects and this seems like an overture for discussion.
That being said, what I don’t get is why we’re denied to hate some kids. I don’t hate all kids for starters, but they have a potential for me hating them, depending on their potential behavior. When I see a kid in the commuter train, for instance, I always wonder will it stay put, therefore I like it because of it, but it still leaves me indifferent, or will it scream its head off and act like a total ass, therefore making me hate it and its parent for giving me a major headache. I hate some people I meet for the first time. Same goes for kids. Sometimes I don’t really need a reason.
MilitaryWife, justify your actions all you want. But, FTR, not everyone has a reason. The “reason,” you seem to insist that everyone has, could be just what it is. I don’t want children, because I don’t want children. You can’t handle that, so you must insist that people have a reason. No, we don’t. And if you have moved on, why must you continue to justify your thoughts here? FTR, that’s a rhetorical question.
Here’s what annoys me about this entire discourse: I commented on MilitaryWifey’s original blog post wherein she showed little or no understanding or respect for those of us who have chosen to live our lives childfree. I commented on that blog post and, if I remember correctly, so did a couple of other childfree individuals. However, she subsequently deleted her blog entry along with all all of its comments…comments that were articulate and thought-provoking enough to change her opinion of the childfree.
I think it would have been much better had she allowed that blog entry and its comments to remain and then posted her apology, instead of pulling the original entry and apologizing for something that no longer exists…especially when the comments she received may have helped her change her mind. It’s possible they could have helped change someone else’s mind about the childfree community, too.
But, you know, it’s her blog and she’s free to do with it what she will. Even if her choice is, in my opinion, pretty lame.
CFSinceSix says “I neither want, nor like, children. When asked why, I simply state that I simply don’t want children. Years ago I quit making up excuses. Because all those “excuses” were simply that, made up. I just do NOT want kids. Period.”
Not wanting kids “because”? This is the only reason I ever need, and I’m not interested in justifying it to anyone. Personally, I’d rather throw acid in my eyes than have children, but hey … each to their own. And generally speaking …I do hate children. I can count the number of kids I’ve actually liked on one hand and still have digits left over. If a kid and a dog were drowning in the river, I’d save the dog.
The whole thing about having to explain ourselves to parents is geting really old. I’m just waiting for the next parent to give me attitude, because I’m going to reverse-bingo them until they beg for mercy. Unfortunately, I don’t run across that many parents ; -) Seriously, why do you even care? If you’re happy playing families, what’s it to you, unless you’re just on some holier than thou superiority kick?
Militarywifey… it’s your blog and you can do and write whatever you like. But even your apology came across as patronizing, regardless of whether you meant it to or not. It may have been clearer if you’d left your original post up, rather than tearing it down, but again, that’s your call.
The fact remains (although you ignored it) that all children are most definitely not all innocent, sweetness and light. And, sorry some are pretty darn manipulative and nasty. Some are horrible. When kids kick an elderly man to death, I call that evil. Or when they carry knives with the sole intent of doing harm - and use it. When they terrorize neighbourhoods and communities. And when they kidnap other kids… well, let’s not go there, shall we? FTR, I don’t hate kids, I like some of them, (and that’ because hating takes energy and I prefer to use mine on better pursuits) but mostly I am indifferent to them - except if they are the ones I happen to like. Others have already given you their views and I don’t need to repeat them.
Equally bad are the parents who have children and mistreat them in many ways. With the number of abused children today, parents should be wringing their hands in collective shame at the trust they’ve betrayed.
Making blanket statements like “children aren’t horrible people and they don’t deserve to be hated…” is as meaningless as saying all kids are wonderful or all kids are bad. Sometimes children can be very horrible people.
And, yes, some childfree do not want kids because they just do not want them. Period. We are always asked why we don’t want them. And frankly it’s none of anyone’s business.
Lord of the Flies says all I ever need to know about kids…I am not a fan of small human beings. I don’t see why I should ever have to justify that to someone else, but people just keep coming with the bingoes…
Fortunately I am coming to the end of my fertile years, so I can expect all this to stop over the next decade or so. I feel for those in marriages or relationships where one wants kids and the other does not, because my first serious relationship broke up over this when I was in my twenties. Back then I knew I didn’t want them and I don’t want them now.
Disliking kids doesn’t mean we wish them harm. But I don’t see the point in trying to pretty up my opinion of kids just to make others feel better. I don’t like kids and I’m better off not having them. Thank goodness for blogs with common sense, that give the childfree a voice!
Britgirl,
I didn’t mean to come on again, but I just felt that I should reply to you, since you replied to me quite cordially. That’s the only reason I’m posting this only for you because you do bring up some excellent points.
“The fact remains (although you ignored it) that all children are most definitely not all innocent, sweetness and light. And, sorry some are pretty darn manipulative and nasty. Some are horrible. When kids kick an elderly man to death, I call that evil. ”
I agree with you here. Children are not perfect. That situation you mentioned is pretty evil, to say the least. What I ask here is where were the parents to discipline?
“Equally bad are the parents who have children and mistreat them in many ways. ”
I also agree with this. This is what I blog on most because I hate it far more than anything else. I have far more respect for someone who chooses to not have children than for someone who chooses to have a child and then abuses them.
“Sometimes children can be very horrible people.”
Look, you bring up some excellent points. Children aren’t innocent and I believe it’s the parents’ responsibility to keep their child from turning into a horror. But, like you said, some parents are neglectful and don’t care. The sad thing is that this horrible child most likely will turn into a horrible adult.
“And, yes, some childfree do not want kids because they just do not want them. Period. We are always asked why we don’t want them. And frankly it’s none of anyone’s business.”
You know, prior to meeting any childfree people I used to ask people that didn’t have children when they planned on having them. Now, because I’ve met some childfree people, I don’t ever ask. I never ask someone without kids why they don’t have kids. Like you said, whether or not to have children is none of anyone else’s business.
And that’s why I no longer blog on this subject. I’m sorry if you took my post the wrong way. It’s been a month since I blogged on that. A part of me regrets ever opening up that box, which I had no business opening up in the first place. Yet another part of me is glad because it has taught me to be more respectful of those that have different choices from mine. I just think I really have no voice in this matter because it’s not something I really care for. I’d rather just live and let live at this point.
That’s just great. Yesterday, DH and I went to a wedding, and at the reception, we were seated with three other couples. One we came with to the wedding, they’re good friends of ours. The other two were young parents. Of course, not too long after being seated and introducing ourselves, the inevitable question came: do you have kids? Woman in couple A, seated next to me was cool and left it at it that when I answered I didn’t want any, but woman in couple B was so into breeding that she litteraly told me she wanted to convert me, when I told her I was not interested in having my own. What a dingbat. I hope I never see her again.
At first I was shaking my head at the whole idea of having a “reason.” Like many here, I don’t want kids because I don’t want them. This idea of having a reason to justify who we are really annoyed me. However, reading all of the comments, I am very pleased to see that militarywifey was open to discussing and learning about a different viewpoint other than her own. Thank you, militarywifey for listening with respect and learning. We need more folks who are open in that way on both sides.
@ militarywifey,
“I’d say it’s more likely you are hating the child misbehavior or screaming or misfit antics.”
I’ll clarify: I said my wife hates kids, not I. However, hate is a strong word. She uses the word hate, but she is genuinely not a hateful person by nature. Children truly make her feel uncomfortable when they’re around the general area. As in “ready to claw the ceiling” uncomfortable. So basically she hates the feeling she gets when children are around.
(I know this is pretty late, but I popped in just to see what went on, out of morbid curiosity)
Chris W. said about his wife:
I’m not a hateful person either. I use the word “hate” as well. You can say this describes me rather well.
Children are unpredictable. I get that. They will be children. They will find some reason to have a blood curdling scream at the top of their lungs during dinner simply because they feel like it or want to grab attention. NO ONE can predict when that will happen. This is why I do NOT LIKE CHILDREN AROUND ME. At all. Period. I’m a highly sensitive person. Loud noises disturb me. Shrill actions and uncontrolled movement disturb me.
Quite frankly, no. I do NOT like children. At all. And yes, I do have a reason for that. It is what I just described. People who are not highly sensitive can’t get that. Or parents who have become numb to the extreme movements, sounds, and smells that children make don’t realize that others are NOT numb to those things. It’s also a known fact that women lose their memory and get “ditzy” during and after pregnancy. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s some sort of biological reason so as to help mothers get numb to shrill noises, uncontrollable behaviour, and horrible smells.
I think you make some very good points in this article, you might have even convinced me to the other side
-Jean
Good points everyone.I came to this conversation a bit late but I wanted to say that I agree that I do not need a reason to be childfree….and frankly,it isn’t anyone’s business but my own why I remain childfree.
I don’t hate kids..I have nieces and nephews that I adore….but I do not want to live with them.Other children(as in those who are not related to me)generally make me nervous.I don’t like shrill noises and unpredictable outbursts.I do not think shrieking is cute.I like my quiet life and I don’t need a reason to enjoy it without children.
I haven’t had anyone ask me in years why I don’t have children.The last time I was asked why I remain childfree I said something to the effect that I would rather spend time with adults.
CFSince6:
I like you am highly sensitive to loud noises. For example, when I go to the store and a child starts screaming and crying I have to LEAVE as quickly as possible. On several occasions I left the store without completing my shopping because I could not tolerate the noise level.
I am also a very anxious person who takes meds for the disorder (OT but I have been told to just get over it or suck it up. Uh yeah, I tried that for the first 25 years of my life. I know how THAT turned out) and I get VERY nervous and uncomfortable around children.
I don’t hate kids. I’ve met some kids I like and others I can’t stand. In fact, I have yet to meet anyone who is childfree who hates or dislikes kids so much that the person wants to wipe all children off the face of the planet. If I saw an injured child, I would do everything in my power to get help for that child.
Neither was a primary factor in my decision to have kids (my reasons are my reasons), but they certainly are good reasons not to have kids.
Some people don’t “get” being childfree because it challenges their view of the world, society, men, women, and marriage. It causes them to have to move outside their comfort zones. Nothing wrong with venturing outside our comfort zones.
I don’t hate kids, like em just don’t want my own. (Cos yes I DO hate the idea of being a parent because it would be all wrong FOR ME.) BUT I DO HATE teenagers who stab other teenagers for no real reason. Or shoot up schools and so forth.
I don’t hate kids but I think if people DO, maybe they can’t help it? As long as they are not horrible to kids etc. does it matter? I mean I LOVE cats and some people can’t stand them so they avoid them, they don’t harm them they just avoid them and other people feel that way about children. Can I relate to that? No. But I can’t relate to wanting to have a baby either. I don’t judge either of those people.
It annoys me that we have to give reasons - I have NEVER asked a parent WHY they had their kids. It’s rude of them who DO ask why.
Another excellent post, Brit girl, as always!