Some time ago a reader wrote to me about one aspect of being childfree that I’m sure affects most of us who’ve taken the road less traveled. And that is the sea-change that happens as former friends join the ranks of parents (and by default, societal acceptability) leaving you, the childfree person “on the outside.”
Even when you try to maintain friendships it can be hard. Suddenly the talk is about babies, children, parenting. Whether the conversation is about “how wonderful motherhood is – and you should have a baby” or “how hard it all is – I’m constantly tired,” the result is the same. Your interests are no longer common and your paths have diverged forever. Even if the childed friend wants to do things with you, the demands of parenting will always come first
This can be quite serious for the childfree person. From having friends you grew up with or went to school with, suddenly you have to try and find new childfree friendships, which in most cases can be difficult. Friendships are formed for many different reasons, but one thing that’s always there is a kind of chemistry. While joining social groups for childfree people are one way to meet like-minded people, it doesn’t guarantee the same chemistry.
Or does it?
I am fortunate in that my closest friends are also childfree. We don’t get to see each other as much as we’d like, but that’s because they live in England and I’m in Canada. But when we do get together there’s no having to ask about any kid questions. I’ve also made friends with people who either already have older children (and don’t talk about them incessantly) and other people who are childfree through No Kidding. And I do believe the pressure of having to find childfree friends is less for those who are married to, or in a partnership with another childfree person. At least, it is for me.
Of recent a good friend who was also a colleague had a baby. Since I never bring up kid questions they never came up. But now I find myself almost obliged to ask about the baby, how she’s doing etc, etc. Some might say, well if you care about her you’d care about her new life as a mother which means you’d be interested in her baby. The fact is, it’s hard for me to show any interest in babies… I’m simply not interested, certainly not in the way I’m expected to be. Because we don’t see each that often, it’s not the same as if it were a very close friend.. but still, it got me thinking. I know that friendship has changed for ever.
And of course the greatest number of childfree friends I have are online. They’re the people who “get it” and who really share their childfree lives – particularly on this blog.
What about you? Have you had to find new friendships when former friends go off to have kids? Or has it never been an issue? If you’ve made new friendships how did you do it? What advice (if any) do you have for other childfree people?
As always, share your views here.
{ 39 comments… read them below or add one }
With the few people like that I know, I’d like to think of myself as the person who reminds them that there’s more to them than just their role as parent, and who hopes that they did not stop having interests once they had kids.
We were just discussing this issue at the No Kidding dinner last night. Several new folks showed up, all happy to have found a group of childfree people. One person mentioned that trying to maintain a friendship with someone who had parented had become almost impossible. No longer was the friend willing to go out, even when they planned for it. Parenting had completely absorbed this person.
It seems to be a very current phenomemon. I remember my parents going out or having parties at the house when I was a kid. The parties often went into the early hours. As one of the people at the dinner mentioned last night, you can practically guarantee that all the parents are leaving by 8pm. Parenting has taken over every aspect of their lives.
Every day I am grateful for the childfree friends I have!
Great post!
I’ve lost several friends after they have had children and it’s been hard to make new friends especially here in Texas where 95% of the population have children. I have friends that are parents but I hardly ever get to see them. People lose sight of who they are as an individual when they become a parent. They are now “Mommy of So & So”. They blog this way and identify themselves in this way. It’s sad really. I understand the very important role of being a parent but I also believe people should not lose their individuality. When this happens they also forget who they are, what their interests are and ignore their childless friends along the way because they are now friends with other parents. It’s good to know I’m not alone in this.
I have lost friends to parenthood too. I once asked a close friend if it was possible not to talk endlessly about baby stuff? She cut me off of her life when I was being honest.
A friend who moved to Europe and is desperately trying to conceive. It fails every time. I try to be supportive, as I know she will be a PNB and has many other interests in life, but what I really want to say to her is, I barely ever see her or hear from her anymore, having a kid will certainly take away whatever is left of our friendship. I’ve been secretely wishing that the IVF fails and wonder if I got my wish. Or maybe it’s mother Nature’s way of telling her it’s not meant to be.
We have friends who are going to be parents soon. They’ll be out of the picture in no time.
So when I meet potential friends, I try to probe early in the relationship if they plan to pop a few out, to check if it’s worth investing my time in them, just like I would do about a potential spouse. I’m relieved my DH is adamantly cf too. I would not want to re-enter the dating market and weed out potential breeders and single dads. Too much effort!
I’m fortunate that most of my close friends are childfree. The childed few know the ball’s in their court, so to speak, when it comes to making plans. I generally won’t ask about their children, unless it’s just small talk, because in all honesty, I don’t really care. I mean, I’m glad they’re doing what they said they wanted to do, I guess, but I don’t feel like I need to ask about things that hold no interest to me.
I always say that one of the best ways to meet people is through volunteering with a cause you believe in. It’s like an instant “in” to a group of people who share at least one interest, you’re usually doing something so there’s little in the awkward silence department, and if a parent is giving up their family time for a cause they’re generally able to function without constant mentions of their children.
Most of my friends are childfree but some are not. All are interesting people and the ones with children are not child-centric.
We talk about all kinds of things and my friends with kids go out without them — we even travel. I’m definitely childfree but I do enjoy my friends’ kids in small doses.
I worked with kids for many years and I enjoy the company of well-behaved children. But I don’t enjoy talking about other people’s children ad infinitum.
I could not see myself ever making friends with anyone who can’t stop talking about their kids.
I don’t have problems with our friends who have children, probably because at our age, the majority of them have kids beyond the critical years that keep many parents stuck at home unless they get sitters. I ask them about their kids the same way I ask other friends how their partners and/or parents are, and I don’t mind being around fun and/or well-mannered kids. Luckily, most of our friends don’t seem to have brats so that isn’t an issue.
The only time I lost a friend was actually a few years back, when a woman who ran a music group fan site I joined became a friend and then had her first baby at age 39. I think she changed a lot after that and we had a huge falling out when she decided not to ask her husband to watch their son two nights in a row to come out and meet another friend who had come from out of town for a planned dinner. I made the remark to a mutual friend at the dinner that she needed to be careful not to isolate herself too much with her child, and the comment was repeated to her. Needless to say, that was the end of that friendship. I can admit that I might have rushed to conclusions, but I really couldn’t see why her hubby couldn’t parent two nights in a row so she could hang out with friends. We have not spoken since and I stopped hanging around the particular fan site and other friends there as a result. I have to say too that she refered to her son as her “hero” for showing her how to live her life, which I thought was just a bit disturbing to put on a 2 year-old.
I sure hope she gets out more now that her son is older.
-AM
I think generally the fault lies with the parents. One thing I have noticed is that childfree people are willing to still make an effort at friendship but when friends become parents they seem to automatically assume that you no longer have anything in common. I’ve been slowly withdrawing myself from my childed friends as I got fed up with being the one constantly making the effort. It just floors me that when I would say to my friends, “Hey let’s get together, leave the baby with hubby and let’s have a girls’ outing”, they would say, “Oh no I’d feel guilty leaving him stuck with the baby”. WTF!?!?!?!?!
I find too that the childed are extremely selfish. You’re expected to show interest in their children yet they don’t have the courtesy to ask you about or show interest in your life. It’s like they think that your life is nowhere near as important as what they’re doing (ie. having kids). After I’ve listened to my friends crap on about their babies/kids, I start talking about mine and my husband’s upcoming travels or something that we’ve done and their eyes just glaze over!
I don’t have many friends. I certainly don’t relate to people who have children. Once I know they have children I actually lose whatever interest I may have in them. My boyfriend’s sister finally got pregnant. So I’ll have that to deal with. I won’t go into the whole situation behind it, but I have already told my boyfriend that I have no intention of babysitting. He knows it.
Anyway, there is a woman at work that I knew before working here (she helped me get a job where I work) that I was interested in as a friend, but she already had one kid and just had a second. I’ve given up on that one.
I’ve tried my local CF group. I went to one meeting at a restaurant/bar and it was nice. I tried to reach out afterwards, keeping contact, but no one reached back.
One of the things I’ve noticed with the CF people that I have met, and this is such irony! is that we are such a varied bunch of people. We have TIME to develop ourselves and personalities, develop our interests, etc., that sometimes it can be harder to connect with someone because it’s like, where do you start? Sure, we have being CF as a commonality, but sometimes, that’s it. Someone is into books, someone else is into hiking, someone else is into papercrafts.. oi!
I’m amused, to be honest, by this.
At anyrate, one couple friend of ours moved to Florida. Which is just as well since she’s now pregnant. Another guy friend (a friend of my boyfriend’s since high school) is on the prowl for a brood mare .. I mean, a wife to start a family SOON. And I can already tell what it’s going to be like when HE finally breeds. I so don’t want to be around. Hopefully it’ll take him further away.
I’m on a message board that has gone from an CF forum to a small group of people who have stuck around for nearly 10 years. There are a couple of women on there that I so desperately wish we all lived in the same town. I’d definitely have someone to hang out with. And I have to admit that I’ve been missing that. Having someone to hang out with. I’m lonely in that area of my life. I don’t have women friends. I turn 40 in October and most women my age are dealing with preteens to teenagers. Yawn.
Well, I’m whining now. I’ve pretty much given up on finding friends, although I’m not *closed* to finding them, it’s just tough to meet people.
I guess I must be one of the very few people whose friends are 99% childfree. I have one close friend with teens (18 and 16) who are basically independent, and one friend who lives half a world away and sprogged last year (I was happy for her, she’ll be a great parent, but I’m glad I’m here and not there). The couple of friends I had that bred have just vanished out of my life. I don’t like kids, I can’t stand people wanking on about them, and they got so “bizzy” that I just gave up waiting around for them. I have too many other things to do.
I count myself extremely lucky, though. Finding CF friends seems to be tough, and I count my lucky stars that I have close ones in two countries.
I am 30 and one of the biggest problems I’m having with entering my 4th decade is that a lot of my friends are having kids.
I had one friend who was constantly complaining about her life and I used to tell her to get a babysitter and take off for the day. Oh, it was too much money, she couldn’t find one, blah blah blah. I slowly stopped interacting with her because she spent so much time yelling at her kids instead of talking when I visited. We see each other at the occasional SCA event.
Another friend went to belly dancing classes with me, but had to constantly rush home after because she was afraid her husband would get pissy about taking care of them for a few hours on Tuesday nights. Or maybe it was that he couldn’t take care of them as well as she could. Or something.
Other friends are just starting on the baby route and I’m afraid that their whole lives will be about the baby and they won’t make time for adult stuff. I don’t mind doing the baby routine – shower, visiting, etc. but it’s not the only thing that I want to be doing when I interact with my friends.
And I’m sure they’ll say that I’m being selfish, but they don’t want to hear about dogs all the time when I’m around them and I respect that. Dogs are a big part of my life, but they’re not the only part and I am okay with getting a sitter and leaving my dog at home.
As I read these comments I found that I’ve also shared some of the experiences of others… no surprise, really. I’ve done my best to arrange get togethers with some childed friends, only to have to put up with them phoning home every few minutes to check on the children. Boring. I’ve heard of some childed aquaintances complain that their friends didn’t step up to the plate to babysit for them so they could have a night out. The comment wasn’t made directly to me, but I guess these days paying a baby sitter comes way down on the list.
Chelle – Sometimes I think that they don’t want to know. They seem quite happy to be subsumed into parenthood, because it (supposedly) gives meaning to their lives.
RMS – I also think that people are so much more “child-focused.” Everything is all about the children… a friend of mine (who incidentally has great kids, and doesn’t talk incessantly and is interested in things other than kids and is all in all pretty cool) and gets out when he can) told me his weekends are full of going to children’s parties.
AM – I have to say too that she referred to her son as her “hero” for showing her how to live her life, which I thought was just a bit disturbing to put on a 2 year-old.”
All these women waiting for children to come along and show them how to live. Sad, butI guess that child will be in the driving seat for ever.
Most disturbing. No wonder she got pissed off with you
Mrs Ogre – I never thought od doing that. Because I hate people bring up the “are you going to have kids?” question I always avoid kid related chit chat unless they bring it up. But you’re right, it’s probably as well to know if a new friend is planning on popping out children later. At least then you can prepare.. because they will be going out of the picture apart from the rare exceptions.
Christine… Three of my friends fall into the same category. They seem to be a rarity. I met them through work so we were colleagues first, then became friends, but when we get together it’s never child-centric. Their kids are older and I find that makes a huge difference.
Childfree Aussie – “…You’re expected to show interest in their children yet they don’t have the courtesy to ask you about or show interest in your life. It’s like they think that your life is nowhere near as important as what they’re doing (ie. having kids).”
Yes, and they get offended if you don’t ask. Not that they wait for you to ask anyway. But I believe once they have kids they actually do believe that’s far more important than your childfree life… after all isn’t that what they’ve been led to believe. The worst is when they start telling you that they never knew what life, or love, was until they had a child… ergo you don’t either as far as they’re concerned. It’s downhill from there.
CF since Six – You make an important point…women may have being childfree in common, but that’s just one thing. It actually doesn’t even mean you’re going to like each other. There has to be something more and it can be harder to find that “more”. In fact it’s hard work and unless both people show willing to build it, it won’t happen. I feel that meeting as part of a group of like-minded people is good (and it’s a great feeling meeting people who understand what it’s like to be childfree) but that only goes so far. Years ago my husband and I attended a childfree event and sat with two completely obnoxious people, whom I never want to meet again – ever. So, at the end of the day we are all different and it all comes down to friendship on a deeper leverl and It’s much harder to find and build that.
Feh does have a point about doing other things in common…I did that to some extent by joining my fitness club where I’ve played squash for years and met childfree people through that. But I wasn’t doing it to meet childfree people, jut because I was interested in playing squash. I recently met another childfree woman through one of my business groups… now we meet for lunch and drinks every few months. But our common interest was business, it just so happened she was childfree too.
Kat – It’s good when they’re far away and have bred… that way you’re not forced to do and say all the “expected things” that you’re really not interested in.
Bravewulf – “Other friends are just starting on the baby route and I’m afraid that their whole lives will be about the baby and they won’t make time for adult stuff.”
it would be great if you were wrong, but I think that’s exactly what will happen.
At 24 years old, I don’t have too many friends with kids, yet, but most plan on breeding eventually. The few friends I do have that are parents luckily don’t expect me to want to hear about their kids. I’ve been very outspoken about not wanting kids and not particularly caring for kids in general, so anyone who knows me knows not to bring the topic up. That isn’t to say that I never ask how their kids are doing. I genuinely care to know if the kids are happy and healthy and doing well in school, etc, but that’s really the extent of it.
I’m not looking forward to the next few years where more and more people I know are going to be popping out babies.. I just hope they don’t expect me to want much involvement with their children’s lives!
There’s something on my blog for YOU!
http://s2dolife.blogspot.com/2008/08/clever-chicks.html
Steph
This blog fills an important niche. Great job.
Lucky you are having friends that don’t talk about parentship. Most of my friends are young and they just got married. One thing I hate most when I met them is if they ask me whether I have children. Or, why I have not pregnant yet. I also known an old lady who always asking me that question. When she knows that there are other couples that we both know are expecting a baby, for sure she’ll be talk to me “They will have baby sooner than you though they married months after you”. She think having a child is an easy matter so we don’t need any plan for it. That’s really suck!
This is a great topic. I wish I knew more CF people too. And when making new friends, I would also like to know if they plan on breeding. I don’t want to waste time and effort getting to know someone only to lose the friendship in a couple of years. This would not have been a problem in a different time or place, because children were meant “to be seen and not heard,” and so as someone pointed out, the parents could talk and have parties and continue to live like adults. Now, the parents are expected to attend all sorts of idiot child functions and they in turn expect that their kids are welcome at all sorts of adult functions. Everything revolves around the children, and the children know it. I’m only 28, but when I was a kid, “adults are talking” was completely and totaly sacrisanct. Unless you were losing a gallon of blood or the house was on fire, you played with the other kids and shut the f up. Now when people come over with children, you can’t get a word in edgewise because the children are screeching for attention and the parents run around fetching their crap and consoling them in stupid baby voices. When my parents brought me to their friends’ houses, I ate what was served (or didn’t – whatever, because no special meals were made for the children) and then played with the kids, dogs, whatever was available. No one really busied themselves with entertaining us or with whether we were having an “educational, wonderful, exciting time.” Now the children run the show. When I said I am not spending yet another Christmas with my husband’s children, I had a friend gasp, You are taking Christmas away from CHILDREN? Um, no. I am going to for once have a nice Christmas with my family and in my world, Christmas is not about children. I don’t see why I have to give up all the things I enjoy about the holiday season for “the children,” but apparently everyone everywhere is supposed to make everything revolve around “the children.” It’s a pain to have to wrestle away normal things as if they are not MINE.
Like RMS above, I remember my parents having people over for cards and having parties and cookouts — and they had childfree friends who they included regularly. It was rare when they went out and we had a babysitter, but that didn’t keep them from inviting people over or visiting.
Because of that, I didn’t think it odd that some people had kids and some didn’t. It’s just the way things were back in the 60s and 70s. We were included, but we knew we weren’t the center of the known universe. We had fun anyway.
We now live on a dead end street that is about half childed/half free, and the parents align into friendships based on their kids’ ages. We tried to be friendly at first, but are now at the point where we nod or wave from a distance, or even just ignore them.
I’ve actually had parents just walk off on me in the middle of a sentence without so much as a “Gotta go!” because Junior was trying to cross the street or some other forbidden thing. Um, hello? What am I, a lamp post?!
Every year they organize two events, an Easter Egg hunt that has turned into a Halloween-style candy fest, and a Block Party to mark the end of school. It’s horror-show — last year people actually hid plastic eggs filled with candy in our yard even though we declined to participate, and in past block parties we’ve had 20-30 people help themselves to our front yard for a sit-down without asking!
These things are all around the kids on the street. There are never any all-adult events.
What’s really annoying about it is one of the people who organizes these things works for a “community-building” foundation. Since when is “what’s yours is mine” the basis for any kind of real community?
I always thought it was working toward basic goals with the inclusion of as many viewpoints as could be found that made communities work.
Firefly – I have the same problem on my street! I live at the end of a cul de sac and everyone wants to have block parties in front of my house. I even had a neighbor try to organize an easter egg hunt in my yard because it is the biggest. Good grief! We solve that problem by putting down all sorts of pesticide on the lawn the day before or the day of the event and warn everyone to keep their kids off due to poison. It works like a charm.
Is anyone here in St. Louis, MO?
I’ve been lucky with my childed friends, in that they don’t generally let everything revolve around the children, and they do value their nights out without the kids (though I naturally see less of these friends than I used to). Family, however, is a bigger problem. My mother can’t talk for more than five minutes without remarking on what her granddaughter (my niece) had for lunch or what her latest word is. Thankfully, my sister has other topics of conversation.
Even my friends with children have remarked on the pressure to procreate, and told me of some of the remarks that were made at their weddings, which they found embarrasing, intrusive and extremely presumptuous. As one friend commented, “I have a baby now, but what if I’d never wanted one? What if I wasn’t able to have one and felt miserable about it? What if I’d lost one and that person asked? Why the hell do people feel it is their business to comment?”
Got to say, I’m looking forward to heading back to my lovely childfree, cat-friendly home at the end of this holiday. I think the problem with children is not so much with the children, but the parents. By making the children the absolute centre of their world, they’re actually doing them no favours. Kids have to learn that they can’t always get their own way, and that screaming and wailing for reasons other than being terribly ill and in pain just don’t wash. Parents who give up their lives and spend their whole existence pandering to their little Emperor’s needs raise little tyrants. I’m certainly not going to let some pesky 3-year old tell me what do do, it amazes me that parents actually do this. Personally, I can’t wait until my ovaries finally run out of steam.
Excellent, excellent topic!
I’m about to turn 30 myself, and know that for the next 10 years or so, most people my age will have baby rabies or be parents of small, needy children.
I wonder how hard it will be to find people to hang out with.
At the moment I only have two childed friends: one with a 4-year old boy and new baby boy, and an awesome new friend who is now 4-months pregnant. I am wary of making friends with parents. Childed people and childfree people generally don’t make good friends for one another. The childed can’t be spontaneous like the childfree, so it’s all about them when it comes to making plans. And chances of them bailing at the last minute due to kid stuff are always very good.
I have very few people I actually call friends. And no one chick I regularly hang out with. One friend had a baby with her first husband at age 20 against her wishes due to family pressure. She wound up giving the baby up to her own mother when the child was just a few months old! She has no contact with the child today other than b-day cards and Christmas cards and of course, a little gift. She realizes now, at age 33, that it was the biggest mistake of her life and she allowed everyone around her to convince her things would be ‘alright’. They weren’t, and she wasn’t – it was disastrous. My other girlfriend is currently going through a divorce at
the age of 34, and has no kids. All 3 of us ride horses. HOWEVER, we are all on totally different schedules and rarely ride together!
I think as you get older, it’s hard to find someone on the same page you are – even with similar interests. Friends with kids? I’ve lost every one of them! They just disappear. Probably for the best anyhow.
Firefly and RMS – I too remember my parents having people round. The kids did their own thing together, generally out of the grown-ups’ way. The thought of constantly wanting to and being the centre of attention like some kids are today- fully encouraged by their parents – just ddn’t come into it. Today, kids are so pandered to by their parents it’s almost embarrassing to watch. Their sense of entitlement precedes them so it’s obvious they know they are the centre of the universe.
Nowadays, when I meet a new acquaintance and find out they have kids I know we aren’t going to be friends for long – if at all we are real friends in the first place. And if they’ve been friends the chances of the friendship dying or fundamentally changing are very high because I just have no interest in the travails of parenting. At least I now know what to expect.
“I think as you get older, it’s hard to find someone on the same page you are – even with similar interests. ”
Str8Six – Totally agree.
Funny thing is…most of my friends ARE childfree, those that aren’t are soooo involved with their little sprogs that I just can’t take it, so we don’t visit them…a few of them are actually responsible parents and for that I give them kudos.
Yes, this is one of the big downsides of not having children…you eventually become alienated from most of your friends. It’s happened to me too. One of my closest friends who I’ve known for over 20 years, only began having children in the last 4 years, and our relationship went through a shocking change. We used to e-mail 3-4 times a week. Now it’s once every couple weeks. We used to meet after work for dinner or a walk once a week – now I am lucky to see her once every two weeks and then only after 7:30 p.m. because she has to wait until hubby gets home, feed the family, etc. We used to have long, deep talks on the phone. Now I avoid using the phone to communicate with her because there’s too much noise and chaos in the background and I can tell she’s not paying attention anyway. Even when we are together, just the two of us, hanging out…she has the attention span of a flea. I think her brain has been re-wired by the jumpy demands of mothering, because she can’t seem to focus on any discussion for more than 30 seconds without her eyes wandering. We don’t have much to talk about anymore. She’s a stay-at-home mom now so the only thing she has to talk about are the kids and mommy stuff which isn’t that interesting to me. I mean, I don’t mind talking about it for a few minutes, but after that, it’s a bore.
So the way I dealt with this is…I formed a childfree social group in my area via Meetup.com and it’s been great. We have monthly get-togethers and it’s great to hang with people who have lots of interests, none of which are childrearing. My hope is that over time, some of these people will become close friends to replace the ones we’ve lost to children.
Thanks for this Childfreeee. Reading all these comments, what’s becaome clear is:
Childfree people have to prepare for the fact that long time friendships are for the most part, going to change suddenly and radically when their friends start having kids.
We can take control and form new friendships. It’s harder the older you get, but it’s better than being at the whim of people we no longer have anything in common with.
We can join existing Childfree social groups, Like No Kidding or, if we’d rather not, set up our own Childfree social groups via Meet up and similar with the aim of meeting Childfree people with different interests.
This in addition to however else we meet new people.
Keep sharing your thoughts, rants and ideas on this… it’s such a pertinent topic that I feel we almost can’t say enough about it.
Expatgirl – I totally agree with your post. When I was a kid, those were the rules, and I don’t think it was traumatizing!
On the friendship topic:
My best friend of 18 years (and I’m 31 so that counts
) had known since she was a kid that she wouldn’t want children. But a couple of years ago, around the time she hit 30 I think, she started feeling on the fence. That led to serious problems with her BF because at the time they got together some 10 years ago he was not CF but over the years she had convinced him of not having kids and now he’s much more CF than her! When she confessed that to me it came as quite a shock, because I egoistically thought it would be a huge loss for me if she actually got pregnant and had kids. I know she doesn’t take the pill anymore for health reasons, and honestly it makes me nervous. Of course this is something I could never talk about anywhere else than a CF blog/board! She’s a teacher so I hope all the bratty kids in her class will refrain her from having one of her own 
))
My best male friend is in his early 40′s, has never been married or had kids and although we never directly talked about being CF I know he wouldn’t want a kid to mess up his lifestyle. His problem is that at his age he either meets women who are too young for him, and will eventually want to breed, or divorced women with kids of varying ages… and that means women who don’t really have time to invest in a relationship.
About women becoming “Mommy of So & So”: it makes me shiver everytime a new woman joins the women’s group in my church and when she is asked to tell something about herself it will invariably be “My name is x, I’m married and mother of 2/3/4 kids”. It makes me want to say “Ok that’s nice but I still don’t know anything about you?”. Of course I don’t because I’m the only non-mom and in the meantime all my otherwise dear friends will be cooing and asking the ages and names of the kids. Ack.
Now to one of my even darker secrets…
In the last couple of years I’ve seen plenty of women my age getting pregnant (no surprise here). Some of them were not friends but just girls I knew from school, we’d just say hi when passing each other on the street. In the case of those I considered smart and sensible women with good brains, I felt a twang of disappointment each time I happened to see one of them for the first time with a big pregnant belly. Am I the only one to feel that way or is is a common CF reaction?
YES! I also feel that twang of sorrow when I see a woman I have known and admired with a big belly. The first thing I think of is…”goodbye.” A colleague I hadn’t seen in a while surprised me with her “big belly” the other week and I just ignored it. Didn’t say a word, just silently mourned.
This is actually a bit scary, because friends are what we need because we are not breeding. I would love to have more close friends, but between time constraints, and frankly the fact that I just love being alone with my husband too much, I have fewer and fewer friends as we move, and people have kids. My husband is significantly older than I am and I just figured that if I outlive him (and don’t knock myself off, lol) I would be one of those crazy old ladies who sit around a pool in Florida in a skimpy, inappropriate bikini, drink frozen margaritas, and pinch the pool boys. I mean, I’ll be old, so that’s pretty much carte blanche to misbehave, right? But I need girlfriends to do that with! And seeing all my friends become completely uninteresting and mired in diapers makes me think that I may not have company. I mean, all the mommies now will just want to talk about their grandchildren and won’t be any fun when we’re old! What to do?
Childfree and happy, i have lost many friends who became child-centric…we naturally stopped seeing each other when we realised that priorities had changed: Gone were the long phone calls about problems we encountered at work, or in our relationships with men. Suddenly my problems sounded irrelevant to someone who was sleep-deprived, worried about her baby not feeding, not sleeping, not burping etc. Even with friends whose children were a bit older, keeping the friendship going was impossible, because they never had any time for themselves, let alone childfree friends. Dinner parties had to be organised at their place, not mine because my flat wasn’t child-proof (!) and were often interrupted by children misbehaving, or waking up at 10 pm and refusing to sleep unless their mum read a story to them.
I think that secretely they envy their childfree friends, but cannot admit it to anybody, that’s why they immediately change subject when you talk about the romantic holiday you had with your boyfriend or husband, the marathon you ran in London, the new book you read (they had to stop reading except for children books), the film you watched (their last movie was a Disney one!) the new bar/club/restaurant that opened around the corner and you recommend and they will never check out.
Og217,
count me in…if you ever come to Hong Kong I am all for frozen margaritas by the pool, and can’t wait to retire and behave inappropriately for my age with some partners in crime.
This quote is what gets me these days: “join the ranks of parents (and by default, societal acceptability) leaving you, the childfree person “on the outside.”
‘societal acceptability’ – if you’re not a mother, you’re not part of “normal” society. You’re on the fringe, not really accepted. I get so tired of not fitting in. But the funny thing is, I would rather not fit in the rest of my life then have children. It’s just not worth it.
I completely agree with b_conrad_101 about:
“In the case of those I considered smart and sensible women with good brains, I felt a twang of disappointment each time I happened to see one of them for the first time with a big pregnant belly. Am I the only one to feel that way or is is a common CF reaction?”
I too get that sad feeling in my gut when I see someone smart and who has stuff going for them get pregnant. It is sad to see that “she” (this interesting, fun person with things to contribute to the world) will disappear and be replaced by the zombie body double “Mommy”. “She” will also no longer exist as a friend or woman, and “Mommy” is rarely someone you want to know and hang out with.
Guiltily, I sometimes wonder why bother getting educated and having a career, if after becoming body double Mommy all a women will get to do is sing “Row Row Row Your Boat”. I could do that at 4, why bother going to graduate school and working your butt off to disappear as a person once you give birth?
I know that above statement sets back feminism and women’s equality a few decades, but I think that CF people who read this posts will know what I mean. Obviously it would be horrible if only the dumb ones bred, and we have all seen the results of that as well.
I currently live overseas in a regional country area of Australia, and man it is hard to find someone to hang out with who is CF or at least respects your right to be. It is especially hard for someone from a cosmopolitan, multicultural city to hang out with people whose eyes glaze over if you talk about anything other than what little Kylie or Heath are doing. After a while, talking to colleagues at work or people you meet in the street gets exhausting, so you tend to seek out people who have travelled or are international themselves who may at least have some interests in common.
So, the above remarks I made were in reference to a colleague who is also from overseas who I thought would be a good friend, but since she is now pregnant I think will probably disappear slowly but surely out of my life. So sad, she is so smart and interesting.
Great conversation thread.
My wife and I have been married for nine childfree years, and we have certainly experienced the friend thing. I still like (most of) my friends with kids, but it is certainly a challenge to maintain the relationship. I try not to judge, but rather enter their world for a few hours. It is a smallish price to pay for those folks who I can’t let drop out of my life completely.
If I think back on the ones I no longer see, I realize that I did not have that much deep stuff in common with them in the first place.
On a related note, Christine and I were at dinner last night with two other childfree (so far) couples, and we spent a lot (I am sure, too much) time talking about our dogs.
When it comes down to it, a bore is a bore – kids or not.
Thanks for sharing so much,
Ken
i have gotten comments like “why did you get married if there’s no kids?”. or “you can’t relate because you don’t have kids”. or people think you are crazy because you don’t have kids, and it shows as those people fade away from your life. it’s always amusing that parents that were so excited to have kids are now saying things like “i’m so tired all the time” and “want my kids?”. i say, hey, you made your bed, you lie in it. don’t complain.
it’s worse with my parents…recently they said to a young father “can you show my son your blueprints for that little guy?” and points at the baby. but it takes two.
i have gotten comments like “why did you get married if there are no kids?”. or “you can’t relate because you don’t have kids”. or people think you are crazy because you don’t have kids, and it shows as those people fade away from your life. it’s always amusing that parents that were so excited to have kids are now saying things like “i’m so tired all the time” and “want my kids?”. i say, hey, you made your bed, you lie in it. don’t complain.
it’s worse with my parents…recently they said to a young father “can you show my son your blueprints for that little guy?” and points at the baby. but it takes two.
“Now to one of my even darker secrets…
In the last couple of years I’ve seen plenty of women my age getting pregnant (no surprise here). Some of them were not friends but just girls I knew from school, we’d just say hi when passing each other on the street. In the case of those I considered smart and sensible women with good brains, I felt a twang of disappointment each time I happened to see one of them for the first time with a big pregnant belly. Am I the only one to feel that way or is is a common CF reaction??”
OMG I thought I was the only one who felt this way! My sister gave up an extremely promising career in medical research, and a PhD, because she was pregnant with her second child. She now teaches, on a non-permanent basis, at the local primary school. Her entire life revolves around her kids. We talk no more than five times a year — her birthday, my birthday, her two kids’ birthdays (if she’s not too busy) and Christmas. She is my only sibling and I feel like I have lost her. And although I would never say this to her, or to anyone in our family, I think it is such a waste of a brain. Please note that I think teachers are some of the most important people on this planet –we’ve all come a long way thanks to teachers! What I mean is, she wasn’t meant to be a teacher; she wanted to be (and WAS) a medical researcher. This is what she always wanted, and loved, and worked so hard at. But now her career in science is shot to bits.
I also know a very talented potter who had to give it up and sell all her stuff because of the demands of motherhood. And I know a Rhodes Scholar with two kids under two years of age — she spends her day changing nappies. All these women love their kids and couldn’t imagine life without them. And I feel churlish for thinking “it’s a shame”… but I do.
My father who is retired from the US Navy works as a substitute teacher at the high school level. One day he was talking about the tragedy of teenage pregnancy that he sometimes witnesses on the job. He said “I just hate to see girls that age throw their lives away having babies”. I added, “I hate to see women my age (32) throw their lives away having babies!”
Well, I don’t have a whole lot of friends and I prefer not to be friends with the childed.