“How Could He Not Want to Have Children?”
15 09 2008Ah, hope eternal! How it springs up, never to be quenched… until someone, a partner (often male) asks in frustration… “What part of I don’t want children do you not understand?”
Apparently all of it. When it comes to the need to have babies, no matter how often their partner states they don’t want them many women refuse to believe them. Instead, they launch their campaign to change the partner’s mind to their way of thinking. He wants to be childfree? What?!
Anything is fair game. Hence we have the:
“Do you love me? Then why don’t you want babies?”
“But we have a great relationship!” How can you not want kids? That would make our relationship perfect!”
“Well, yes, of course I remember you said you didn’t want kids… but I thought that you’d change your mind…”
“If you really loved me, you’d want to have kids…”
“But if you’d just try… I know you’d make a terrific father. Look how well you get on with kids!”
“I know he’d feel differently if he just held his own child… he would melt.”
Duhhhh!
One can only hope that the men who come under this “assault” stand firm and don’t cave. Unfortunately, as we know some men do cave… I mean there’s only so much emotional blackmail a guy can take, right?Anything for a quiet life. And.. perhaps it will be all right…in vain they try to convince themselves.
Those with balls will see the writing on the wall and bail (if the relationship still has a get-out-of jail-free card) or insist and stand their ground. With the latter though, there is always the chance than “accidents” and an “oops” will happen. In fact, it’s a very high likelihood.
What I can’t understand is how these women can profess to love their partner and then do everything to disregard and dismiss their opinion, especially when it’s one as profound as having kids. Unless of course, love = have babies. As in, “I will love you if you give me babies. And by the way, I don’t believe you when you say you don’t want babies because I know best and I want a baby.”
For men, it seems that it’s not enough just to make your feelings clear these days. There must be firm and final acceptance of those feelings by the partner. And sometimes the only way to ensure no “little surprises” appear is to take the permanent solution and have the snip. Otherwise…expect the “accident.”
When it comes to women who want babies and husbands who don’t, deceit and subterfuge are not obstacles, because the end seemingly justifies the means. And besides, the men don’t really mean it do they? They are sure to change their minds. The question is… why are they together in the first place?
Then the women are surprised when the relationship breaks up. Apparently (shock, horror) husband really meant it after all. He didn’t want children. Game over.
Beggars belief sometimes how stupid some people can be.
Technorati Tags: childfree
It doesn’t just happen to men. A friend of mine just broke up with her fiance because he just wouldn’t accept that she doesn’t want children. He’d pat her on the head (mostly metaphorically, sometimes literally) whenever she said it and then talk about how she’d change her mind when she had her first, that all women think like that at some point. Then there was the emotional blackmail, the “you don’t love me” and the “you’re not a real woman” crap. Not to mention the fact that he seemed to assume that a baby would be like a toy. She doesn’t know why she stuck at it for so long, but he was her school boyfriend and I think she just got herself in a rut.
I got all that from my boyfriend when I was in my twenties and just about to finish college…he had this insane idea that we’d get married and start pinging out children, despite my lack of enthusiam for babies and infants. “You’ll change your mind, it’s different when it’s your own!” Too true, too true…when they’re your own you have NO escape. A life of misery beckoned.
Eventually I asked him, “Will you leave me eventually, if I don’t have children”. He replied, “Yes.” I then said, “Best if you leave now, then.” And he did. The last I heard he is married with three kids. I am happy for him and particularly happy he has them with someone else, not me.
This is one thing in a relationship you truly can’t compromise on…you either have kids or you don’t. Trying to “oops” someone is the worst kind of blackmail, shows no respect whatsoever for the partner, and brings children into an unstable situation where they are not really wanted. Way to play happy families…grr.
Thanks to the posters who bring up men wanting kids, because I think a lot of time women get most of the blame for it, and I think that’s completely wrong.
I know a couple whose marriage is on the rocks right now because Dad insisted that they have another child, even though the Mom was pretty well done after their first. Now, of course, Dad’s being all pissy because the new baby is so much work (like the first wasn’t?) and is having a hard time dealing with the fact that he’s a dad again and has to be even more of a responsible human and eventually his wife will go back to work and leave him with two children (he’s a SAHD) Of course, even though he’s having a hard time dealing with his own life situation, he’s giving my husband the business about “when are you going to have kids? It’s what a man does. How can Feh NOT want children? Can’t you change her mind?” b.s. stream.
I know another woman who was married to a man who basically insisted they have children, but when she was pregnant with the third, he left her because it was “too much responsibility”. Now, of course, he’s got another wife or girlfriend knocked up and is totally trying to sucker out of his obligations to his first children.
Misery loves company, Feh. As long as his life is screwed, he’d love for you to come along for the ride.
I agree that the ‘oops’ female is the lowest form of life. I can’t understand how deluded you’d have to be to assume that you can just nail someone else with a child against his express wishes, and think that he’ll thank you for it. I wonder just how many women have been left in the dust when baby daddy took off … and then bleat to the world about what an asshole he is. One finger points - three fingers point back at you.
Guys cave under pressure just as women do. They fall for the same tired cliches, and then find out the hard way that it’s not all beer and skittles and Kodak moments. Just because they’re men doesn’t make them any more rational on the subject. There’s plenty of baby rabid men (or men that THINK they’re baby rabid, until the reality hits) out there - it sure as hell doesn’t all come from the girls!
Completely agree. Like they said, having kids is not a compromise. Either you have them or you don’t and if one wants kids and the other doesn’t, someone’s going to lose in the end. It’s impossible to be win-win. People are always shocked when I tell them that if my husband (not that I’m worried) changed his mind about wanting kids, that our marriage would be over. I always get “Well, that’s not something to end a marriage over.” or “You’re not even going to try to work it out?” What’s there to work out? Someone’s going to be miserable either way. Best to cut your losses and let them move on to someone who has the same wants. Tough, but true.
Oh man! I surely dodged a bullet in that category! Before I met my husband who is as adamantly cf as me, I dated a breeder wannabe for 3 years. In the beginning, the relationship was great, and at that time I thought I wanted kids. FFW to the end of the relationship when it was morbid, he still insisted we have kids. I was off the pill, but he stressed me so much that I didn’t have my period for a whole year! My body was my best buddy that year. It’s like it knew I should not have a kid with this verbally abusive asshole. When I finally kicked him out (I was paying all the bills and bought all the furniture), a month after, I got my period back, just like that! I feel so relieved I dodged one hell of a bullet! I live a peaceful life now.
Last I heard, he got married in Peru, lived there for a while, then got back to Canada. Is he divorced? Who cares?
Now if I could avoid going to a stupid baby shower next month, life would be perfect! But that’s a whole other story.
Ever think of organizing a childfree meetup in Toronto? I’d be there with bells on.
No, it certainly doesn’t just happen to men. And I’m sure there are some men as obnoxious as women when it comes to trying to change the woman’s mind.
Interesting though that it’s this post that is triggering the incidents of women being asked to change their minds about having kids.
However, most of the “oopsing” stories I have heard have men as the “victims” for want of a better word. I can think of two men I know who are going to get “oopsed” unless they get their act together because they think the baby rabies is just a phase. The pressure has just begun… and in one case the woman is over 40 and the relationship is just months old. Then there is the post on this blog where the husband doesn’t want more kids and the wife did…which continues to draw tons of hits from searches - including “how can I make my husband want kids?” and “ways to change my husband’s mind”
And then there is this recent post excerpt here on this blog which I found interesting as it was by a guy….
“Many men told me that their parents or the woman’s parents and peers put pressure on them to have kids and they were considered irresponsible if they didn’t. A few years ago Sally Jessie Raffiel (sp) said that men that didn’t want to have kids were irresponsible. Her audience was mostly women and they cheered of course. But also it was women that wanted babies that were there..”
I’ve actually heard men called irresponsible for being reluctant to have kids (or more kids).
And not to forget the forums that seem to be devoted to helping women actually get pregnant by deception if the man is unwilling.
To me it seems to be a given that if a woman wants to have a baby then nothing should stand in her way, almost as if it’s a divine right.
Pity there are no stats as to who gets the most pressure, but I know women get pressure from everyone too…. and yes including men. I just seem to be seeing more and more men who do not want kids, who once went along with it and are now willing to talk about it, which I think is a good thing.
Hopefully we’ll have some commenting here.
I was talking to my boyfriend about the pressure women receive regarding having babies. He said men get the same amount of pressure. I don’t entirely believe him.
But he was telling me how the pressure comes from “being a man” and “carrying on the family name” etc. He says the family name dies with him.
It’s interesting to see how atleast one common pressure … uhm… “point” is attacking a person’s “manhood” or “feminity” if they don’t want children. It takes a huge amount of strength to resist that. Or, it takes a huge amount of confidence (which, IMO, helps with having the strength to resist).
The worst pressure, IMO, is from women who supposedly “love” these men. If they truly loved someone, they’d 1) do the cliche and let them go, or 2) quit pressuring the person they love to do something they don’t want. I completely agree that a woman oopsing a man is one of the lowest forms of scum as they do have more control over this than men do. Many women violate the trust being put on them by their husbands - i.e. secretly not taking birth control. etc.
By the same token, I don’t entirely feel sorry for men either. While in a marriage one should be expected to be able to trust their PARTNER, I do believe that each person is responsible for their own body. And that includes men. There are condoms. And if she doesn’t want to use a condom, well, be a MAN and do without sex. I personally think there should be a B.C. pill for men. In the mean time, if a man is firm and unwavering in their decision to not have children, BEFORE they marry have a vasectomy. That should be a HUGE neon sign to any woman that he is serious about his decision. (But then again, sometimes you can’t win. Some women think they can STILL change his mind because there is vasectomy reversal.) bleh.
I think irregardless of your gender, this is something that should not be a surprise found out after marriage. If somebody really does not want to be a parent, they should not be a parent. My wife and I wanted kids, and we were both in agreement. I never would have married a woman who did not want to have kids. A person who does not want children, that does not make this person mean or a child-hater, it’s just something they don’t want to do. I respect people who can look at the big picture and make a decision, because believe me, once the kids arrive, your life is forever changed. In my line of work in pediatrics, there are just way too many people who are parents who should not be parents, or did not want to be parents. I agree that coercing an unwilling partner to have kids is just wrong, and can only finish in disaster for all concerned.
PS- I keep thinking of poor Andrea Yates, a woman obviously not faring well with having kids, and her husband Rusty just wanting her to have more and more children-even though she was a stay at home mom, homeschooling the kids, and not functioning real well because her post partum depression had reached the point of psychosis that reached the breaking point where she drowned her 5 kids. After getting a retrial, she is locked away in a mental institution for life…oh, and her schmuck now ex husband has remarried and is cranking out kids with another woman. I think about Andrea Yates a lot when I hear about partners trying to coerce their partners into having more kids. The only good thing that came out of this whole sorry episode is that it got people talking about post partum depression and women being in control of their reproductive health and the ability to say ‘enough’.
I totally agree with Nursedude. I have nothing to add except my agreement. Bravo!
I know far too many men who trusted their partners to keep taking the pill, to keep in their IUD, to replace their monthly patch, and who were told “ooops” by these women who “forgot” to take their pill, replace their patch, and amazingly, that they had their IUD removed. Most of these men accepted the “whoops” excuse and stepped up to the plate, all of us women in their lives rolled our eyes at their stupidity and their girlfriend/wife’s deceptiveness. It takes two to tango and these male friends should have taken on more responsibility by wearing a condom or, if their convictions on being childfree are solid, get a vasectomy. But there is a certain level of trust that comes with being in a relationship and discontinuing birth control without communication and full disclosure is the greatest violation of that trust.
To echo the comments by others, I too have walked away from a relationship because of our differences in the arena of children. I was fortunate enough to believe in myself and my convictions to deal with the guilt and heartbreak associated with ending a long-term relationship with someone I still loved and cared about deeply. Many, many years later I think we would both agree that my walking away was a necessary move, but ending a relationship not because there was problems but because someday down the road there would be a problem because he wanted children and I didn’t was painful.
When my boyfriend and I first got together, I made it very clear to him that in the event we stay together, I will not be having children. I said to him “if you ever think you’re gonna want kids, we need to end this before we get too serious because with me, you won’t get any!”
Sure being that honest about the future in the very beginning of a relationship is a little unorthodox but I don’t want to take the chance of falling in love and wanting to be together and such only for it to end a few years down the road cuz he wants kids. Break ups are no fun and being straight up front about a no kids policy is a good way to avoid unnecessary heartbreak.
Muffin, yes. And so many people think that they can “figure out” all of the “details” and that love conquers all. When it doesn’t turn out that way, rather than acknowledge it, some people can’t cope and so they insist on having their world view and plans continue on regardless of what anyone else may want.
What you did was a very MATURE act. I did that with my boyfriend. We started out as friends - it was a great way to, well, become friends first!
And also there was no pressure of “OMG! I’M ON DATE TO FIND A MAYUN!” We just knew each other from work, would chat over instant messenger when we were off of work, and got to know each other that way. I was straight up honest. “Do you have a girlfriend? Do you want kids? Do you want marriage?” And other questions that were important for me. Over time as I dated him I watched how he spent money, how he viewed money, his spiritual and religious philosophies, etc. All of that is important for a couple to mesh, IMO.
Now, keep in mind that sometimes people change their minds. It’s unfortunate, but it does happen. (I’m not talking about people who flat out lie just to ensare their partner into marriage - either men or women.) I’m talking about people who do have a genuine change of heart. I know two CF women who had that happen to them. They ended up in divorce because they did not want children but their husbands changed their minds.
I can only speak for myself when I say this. My number one goal for a long term relationship was openness and honesty. If I couldn’t be honest with my best friend, well, hell.. he wasn’t my best friend. And while I was upfront from the beginning on my feelings regarding children (don’t like ‘em, don’t want ‘em) I am finding that even after 4 years, 2 living together, the conversation is still continuing. Maybe not day to day, but when various situations come up. i.e. His sister “finally” got pregnant. Already babysitting duties are being doled out - even though it’s being said in a joking manner. After a second “joke” about babysitting, I waited until I was calm and collected and then asked my boyfriend about it. Again, honest and upfront. “You know that kid is not allowed in my home. And that I’m afraid I’ll be on your family’s shit list when they realize that yes, I WILL refuse to babysit.” (For one, he said I won’t make their shit list, and if I do, he said he didn’t care,he’ll still be with me.
)
The point is, as situations arise I am finding that I am having to talk to him and revisit how I feel about children, babies, baby sitting, etc. I’m not saying I’m reTHINKING how I feel, just revisiting the conversation to keep it in the forefront and to see if any feelings may have been changed on either of our parts.
And, while I don’t like to think about this, I do remind him and I told him before we became “official,” if he wants kids, or ever thinks he wants kids, he’ll need to find someone else. I also told him that if he ever has a possible INKLING of MAYBE wanting kids, to PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let me know as SOON as that inkling comes up so we can revisit our relationship. It may mean we depart. I will be INCREDIBLY sad, it won’t be easy, but I am prepared to let him go. And he knows it. By the same token, I know that if I decide I want kids and he still doesn’t, that I need to let him know so we could both move on.
Point being, I can never really know about him for sure. I am giving him the freedom to choose, to change his mind. I can only know about me. I love him so much he is free to live his life as he so chooses - and it may or may not include me. Right now it does, and I certainly do hope it stays that way.
Well, I could not agree more, with you fellas. Yes I am a woman and I agree totally. I love my sistas but. If a guy says no kids. He means it. Alot of time women, and I include myself here. Only hear what they want too. Trouble is waiting to brew. they (women) I mean refuse to believe their partner boyfriend does not want everything they want. Answer when you get with a man. Find out from the start if he wants kids are not. If the guy says I don’t know . Do’nt stick around. Hes playing you.
As for you guys who do’nt want kids. Get the snip real quick. Be strong and determined to live your life your way.
Tough.
ladies not bully a man to have your kids. Find a man who wants kids. Its helps alot.
I don’t want kids. I could never bully a man into not having kids. Its got to be his chosen decision. So if you love your man or woman. And you both want different things. Let them go. Find someone else
Arlene, I would go so far as to say that women need to ALSO listen to what a man is NOT telling them. Women tend to ignore that.
I’d agree with CFsince6. What’s not said is as important as what is said. For both sexes.
I just read an advice column by Dr. Phil (yes, I’m a big dork, I know. I can’t help it, it’s some sort of sick voyerism) where some imbecile of a woman wrote in that after 2 years of “conversation” with her “wonderful, incredible” husband about having children, he went out and got a vasectomy, but she didn’t fully approve and how could he do that, bla bla bla. I was so annoyed by the answer - your husband is a monster, you are trapped in an abusive, one-sided marriage and you should get out now because he is the most selfish, uncaring man in the world. WHAT??? After 2 years of “conversation,” which I take to mean that she whinged on and on about popping out a litter and he said no, he finalized his decision to not get oopsed. She is angry because he didn’t allow her to oops him. And the “referee” in this awards her the moral high ground! How dare a man make a final decision after saying what he wants over and over and over to the chickenhead he lives with? I was just livid! A woman is allowed to force a man into banking her brats and isn’t allowed to say no? This is suuuch BS. And it makes me angry to hear these idiot women claim to love anyone after that. Selfish, horrid, and completely beastly is what they are. I wish the legal system would catch up to this nonsense and if a man can prove he was deliberately tricked, I think he should not have to pay a dime in support.
Hello
Your e-mails have helped. I had an unplanned child with my boyfriend 8 years ago. He told me he didn’t want a child, but as I said that I did want to keep the baby, he ’stuck by me’ though he made it clear he was absolutely terrified. Of course, it was both our ‘fault; i got pregant in the first place. Gotta admit though, when the baby was born, fairly predictably I thought she was adorable and equally predictably my husband, though dutiful, thought she was fairly intolerable (the crying, sleepless nights, constant need for attention etc) for at least the first—-three years) Fast forward 8 years - sure he is an excellent dad - but my point is he doesn’t want any more. I guess I do. I ended up with a guy who though is a great dad is not a kiddie person. He prefers rock climbing, surfing etc.
I have done bunny boiler things to get pregnant including swallowing his sperm and spitting it out into a pipette and putting it up—-there. So that makes me - crazy I guess. Then i thought if No 2 was created that way how would I break it to my husband that I’d basically regurgitated our second child out of my mouth and well—-
Wanting a child is a nightmare. The only thing that stops me wanting another baby is doing lots of karate and realizing - quite shockingly - that somehow my daughter turned out well, despite having at time, a crazy breeder troll (though actually I am rather pretty) as a mother.
G#d, I thought about it last night and thought DID I ACTUALLY PRINT that (above).
It was NOT my finest hour.
At the time, I had just lost a baby it - died inside me -not uncommon, actually, and my husband didn’t want to try again after the loss because….I don’t know why…just because..so I was what? Totally nuts - and , yes, i knew it didn’t have a chance in hell of it working (my act for want of a better word) and, yes, i knew I was being gross.
btw, your e-mails about this subject of one partner coercing another to have kids has been really interesting -I read your blog thread before when i want to see ‘the other side of the story’, being the NOT wanting a baby - and it HAS helped me to see that your side is just as valid.
Two people deffo have to be in agreement or it can lead to…upset or extreame desperation (for both). Losing and/ or wanting a child can create mental illl health( as I have obviously painted that picture) - but also not wanting a child and ending up with one can be a great source of unhappiness (the duty to be a ‘good’ parent may be there, but coupled with the loss of freedom to live a ‘good’ life)
I have many friends with kids and many without kids, by choice. Often i prefer my child free friends because 1/ They have other things to talk about then just kids 2/ They tend to be open minded having experienced a greater diversity of life (often). 3/ They don’t make me feel like I ought to have more kids because, quite frankly, they wouldn’t want any at all. Women with more then one child tend to view mothers with only one as…slightly strange (but that’s a whole other website for ‘parents with an only child’)
My actually I am rather pretty comment - sounds..weird but I didn’t want to refer to myself as a troll, but maybe everyone is a troll from time to time - I think i probably was a total troll when it came to have a baby
If I tried this on my husband (not that I would, I like being CF, but for the sake of argument), not only would I end up NOT having his baby, there is no doubt in my mind that I would be divorced. End of story. And I wouldn’t blame him for leaving.
I think that it’s terribly wrong that our society condones the above methods and insanity because well, how can it be wrong when it produces a BABY? but completely maligns men who didn’t want any stupid brats before conception and didn’t somehow manage to change their minds once the bloody thing was spawned. Like, sure you got tricked, your life is ruined, your finances crippled and no woman who you are actually COMPATIBLE with (childfree) will now want you, but get over it and like it, goddammit! LIKE IT!!! And if the man leaves the beast that did this to him, god forbid, all hell breaks loose! I just don’t get it.
I fail to understand how anyone could be in a relationship for any length of time and not realize that the other person doesn’t want kids. Surely I’m not the only one that thinks whether or not to have children is a pertinent topic in any relationship? My fiance and I had this discussion well before we got serious. It was of utmost importance to make it known to any potential mate that I didn’t want children, so they could look elsewhere if my refusal to breed was a deal-breaker.
It appalls me to no end that anyone would jump into a relationship- let alone marriage- without knowing how their partner feel about having children!
AngryReptileKeeper, you are not alone! My husband and I had this discussion before we had even considered getting engaged, much less actually married.
I’m seeing a similar situation with some of my friends right now, only in reverse: They had both wanted children when they got married, but now she’s on the fence, and they seem to be putting it off. “Oh, we’ll ’start a family’ (I hate that expression) when we move and get settled”, or “We’ll have kids when we find out about his job” (he’s a teacher), etc. Which is all fine, except that I know he wants kids, never mind that he’s a total d!ck. But she’s just not sure anymore I don’t think. She’s 30 and he’ll be 30 very soon. I guess only time will tell. I hope they don’t have kids. I have other friends I think will be great parents, but I’m not even sure these two are going to stay together with just the TWO of them involved. I can see them becoming the “maybe having a child will fix the marriage” couple. Sad.
Alice - thanks for sharing. Clearly you are not a troll
Glad the discussion here has been helpful.
“I fail to understand how anyone could be in a relationship for any length of time and not realize that the other person doesn’t want kids. Surely I’m not the only one that thinks whether or not to have children is a pertinent topic in any relationship?”
ARK - Can’t really add anything to that. I am still amazed by the number of people who either “don’t know” or “know but plan to make the other change their mind…” I know of a couple who are getting married. He doesn’t want kids, (he’s told my husband) and she does, or at least will. But he’s not going to bring up the subject in case it spells the end of the relationship. Instead, he’s busy “convincing himself” that” kids would be ok, really…” What’s the chance he is going to end up a father? I’d say pretty good. But I’ve no sympathy because he’s refused to address the issue. Pretty sure she knows how he feels… she won’t bring it up either.
Sister Dino - Sorry for the kid.
Yes, I wish (bit late now) I had discussed more with my husband about whether or not he really didn’t want or wanted kids before I got married!!
I think he was ambivalent, but my desperately wanting, repelled him in the end. I probably should have cared less and then perhaps..but it’s so easy with if’s and but’s…
I think it’s human nature to back off when someone is coming on strong about something you yourself are cool about.
I can only think of big lavish weddings as an analogy. I have never (quite) understood girls who come on really strong about getting engaged and then having weddings - huge, seemingly stupendous affairs - that take over a year to organise, complete with matching color coordinated napkins and bridesmaid shoes and….canapes..(funny things I always think) and a marquis complete with brass band stuff. Neither do I find what seems (to me) a HEADACHE, particularly romantic. I would rather have (and did have), in a heart beat, something…simple… like Carrie and Big’s wedding from the SATC movie, but obviously without the much more complicated baby chat before the very simple wedding (silly me)
Also, I have seen time and time again guys backing off each time the girl is expecting him to propose - the sheer pressure is well…difficult to take on perhaps.I KNOW, or at least feel, the pressure I put on my husband to want to have a second child has left him frozen on the fence - forever. So I am partly to blame.
But now, I’m thinking that I need to make a decision about what to do for the best, because sticking with a guy who isn’t interested in having a baby is making me SAD - ENUUF!!!
I also see CF couples and I see how close they appear to be. My mother told me she thought that on average couples who don’t have kids get on better. Do you think that’s true? I sometimes wish I didn’t care about having another baby and I could be like that. I love my husband hugely but so do I love (and did love) having a baby.
A crappy web I have spun for myself there! Jeez. I need a drink