This post was going to be a little different. But at the last minute I saw this comment and decided I’d do two things.
The first is to say thanks to Honest Dad for sharing his comment here. I got to thinking that here we are in the 21st century. We can fly to the moon vote, run fro president, but still can’t be honest about being a parent. As Childfree people we KNOW that some people don’t enjoy being parents at all. We know it’s not a fit for everyone. Given the irreversible step that having children is, one would expect more people would be honest about it’s realities. But one would be wrong. I can count on one hand the number of times parents have said to me they don’t enjoy being a parent, even though I’ve suspected it and even though I could see it.
I suspected I wouldn’t like being a parent so I resisted pressure to have children. But it didn’t stop parents constantly encouraging me to have them. “Have one,” they’d say. “Have a couple. It’s really tough. But oh, so worth it! It’ll change your life.” Whenever I mentioned it might be getting a little late anyway, I was met with “oh, but doctors can do wonders with fertility treatments now…” What?!
Of course we all know that there are some that simply can’t understand how anyone (man or woman) couldn’t want to have kids. I don’t bother to expand on that these days.
I’m pretty sure that most childfree people have heard at least one variation on the above.
I consider myself fortunate that I at least have had some friends and colleagues (parents) who have said that my choice was a wise one, based on their own experience. To me it didn’t mean they were any less devoted to their offspring, just that they were more honest than most.
Trying to get people to change their minds and have children when they have said they don’t want to, or are even ambivalent about is unhelpful as well as intrusive. It would be better to channel the energy spent convincing people to pro-create to telling them just how tough parenting is – without adding they should do it.
It also drives home the fact that the choice to be and live childfree is still not fully accepted.
As Honest Dad says….
“Parenthood is a very personal thing. It is different for everyone. I am absolutely not saying that anyone should or should not have children. I am only saying that I preferred my life before becoming a father. I feel bad saying that. I’m sure that most people would look at me as if I were the devil himself for vocalizing this opinion. Like I said, it is taboo. If you are thinking about it, here is one data point on the ‘wish I hadn’t’ chart.”
I think that says it all.
Now on to my second point of this post – and that is to say a big THANK YOU! to everyone who comments, shares and adds to our conversation on Like It Is. I appreciate your time and comments and insights hugely. YOU ROCK! Not only do you rock but you’ve helped in no small way to make Like It Is a place for great childfree conversation… something we almost never get in our “everyday” world.
Don’t forget to flag any posts articles on your own blogs (email me the links if you prefer) and I will do my best to check them out and/or re-blog them on Like It Is. Props to everyone who sends me articles and the like.
Add your thoughts on Honest Dad’s comment.
Technorati Tags: Childfree
{ 17 comments… read them below or add one }
I find his honesty refreshing. Maybe he will feel differently toward fatherhood some day, maybe he won’t. But at least he is being open about how he feels NOW. I have no doubt that parenthood is wonderful and worth it for many people(though not all), but they should not discredit how tough, dirty, tiring and just plain not fun it can be much of the time. It is not for everyone, And I think we do a real disservice to people by pretending it is the end all, be all to a happy life. I see this problem in the infertility community all the time. Everyone has to pretend that pregnancy and parenthood is all roses and sunshine, or they will be jumped on and chastised for being ‘ungrateful’. I think the ability of those of us from all walks of life to come together and have a candid dialogue about this topic is a great thing.
Britgirl, yours is the only CF blog I read on a regular basis. You provide insightful and thought provoking posts. I just realized the other day that I’ve been reading your blog for a little over a year. Wow. NO OTHER blog, website, or message board (except one I’ve been on for 10 years) has kept me interested for that long like yours. I absolutely love it here. I find myself saying, “ooh! What has Britgirl said lately??”
I appreciate Honest Dad’s comments. The only thing *I* feel badly about is his comment that he “feels bad” for saying he preferred his life before fatherhood.
You know, this is the EXACT SAME guilt trip that breeders like to impose on the childfree and other parents who are simply being honest about their feelings. He shouldn’t have to feel bad for feeling the way he does. And, IMO, it’s not him, it’s this imposed guilt that breeders want to place on others who aren’t worshipping at the alter of parenthood and children.
If Honest Dad is reading this, I would encourage him to really examine WHY he feels bad. If he’s really being honest, there is no reason to feel bad about being honest. Acknowledging what’s reality is very healthy and REAL. I would suspect that he might find that this bad feeling isn’t really his, but the breeder-establishment just trying to beat him into submission, like they do the childfree. It doesn’t mean he loves his children any less, either, or that he’ll take care of them any less. I’d rather an honest dad than one faking it myself.
I went over the archives again the other day and it reminded me why I keep reading this great blod.
Honest dad did not say anyting new to me. But I respect him for sharing and he seemed true.
First time posting here, but have been reading your blog for about a month now, Britgirl, and I must say it is my favorite childfree site yet! Echoing CFsincesix, I too find myself asking “What has Britgirl said lately?” I am still reading from the archives as well. Thanks for an uber cool site!
I think it is very unfortunate that honesty has to be suppressed. It isn’t healthy and it is counterproductive. I don’t see any gains in concealing the truth, but too many people just can’t bring themselves to admit the truth about their parenting experiences. I think it simply comes down to fear of admitting negative feelings, because ‘it wasn’t supposed to be this way. Parenting is supposed to be fulfilling, like we were told, and like we believed.’ That reality would be much too disappointing. So instead they choose not to discuss it in hopes of those feelings dissipating.
Hi all, Britgirl, I love this topic. I agree with the others, this is definitely one of my favourite child free blogs! You will all be thrilled to know that actress Nicole Kidman (“Our Nic” as Aussies love to call her) has said in a recent interview, something along the lines of “Once you have a child you realise that as a woman your purpose is to give birth”. Someone please bring me a bucket NOW!! I personally think it’s a bit scary when high profile people have opinions like this because it can influence women who might be fence-sitters on the child free issue. My hubby is a firefighter and we recently attended the Australasian Police & Fire Games and I was suprised at the number of women, both participants and partners of the firefighters and police, who were really supportive of mine and hubby’s decision to not procreate, and these women all had kids of their own.
I must say too that I really admire Honest Dad’s view. I don’t think he should feel bad for being honest. As a matter of fact I have more respect for parents who do feel that way. I have no respect for the parents who, when you press them to be honest about the not so good side of parenting, continually say that it’s hard work but worth it – they’re the parents I’m suspicious of
Childfree Aussie, please pass the bucket my way. I’d like to suggest to “Nic” that ability and purpose are two different things. Just because I can do something doesn’t mean I should or have the desire, but that seems like a rather obvious point. In all areas of life, those who are secure enough to deviate from the status quo will always be viewed with skepticism. It is far easier to go along than to sit down and really think about what kind of life you want and what makes you happy. I am sure that parenting does offer joyful moments but so do other experiences. No one can know what moves or motivates another soul and I’m not sure why some with children are so determined to prove that theirs is the only legitimate path. It seems a far too important decision to go along simply to be on trend. Whenever someone tries too hard to convince me of something, I tend to feel that they are also trying to convince themselves. I’m with britgirl, I’ve seen far too many cases where the “selling points” don’t really seem to be heartfelt.
I applaud Honest Dad for his sharing his experience.
Well guess what, I’m going to need that bucket too!
I’m taking the opportunity to say that this is my favourite childfree blog too, I’ve been reading it from the beginning of the year I think and went through all the archives, it also made me stronger in my CF position, because I feel I’m not alone in this!
HonestDad shouldn’t feel bad about his feelings, but society puts us under so much pressure to feel “this way” and not “that way”. One of my reasons for not wanting children is the lack of a bond between my own mom and myself, that’s quite a taboo too. I do envy families in which people feel a true pleasure at spending time together, but it’s definitely not a given.
Once again, a great post.
Honest Dad is not unusual in his feelings, but he is one of the few who will admit to having them. Kudos. This kind of insight and acceptance will only help him – be a better dad.
Although young parents have too much emotional investment in pretending that parenthood is the most important thing in their lives – ever – I find that older folks – particularly those in nursing homes – will be a bit more honest.
Just ask them about their kids, and a good number will talk bitterly about abandonment, resentment, and the fact that it was “not worth the effort” to have kids.
As if kids were some sort of insurance policy on elder care. They are, for many people. Kids were also free farm labor once.
I don’t revel in the stories of resentment from those in the nursing homes. There is nothing to celebrate in a regretted life decision. Rather, I wish we learned listened to these people more in order to help our young people open their minds so they are more likely to make a fully-considered decision – before they have kids.
Whether they decide to be parents or childfree, one can never do wrong by considering all sides of the issue. Your blog continues to help people do that.
Great post, Britgirl, and kudos to Honest Dad for his comment.
I think the reason he might feel bad for being honest is that he doesn’t want his children to feel hurt by those words, and I can understand that. We can rationalize that it doesn’t mean he doesn’t love his children, but I think he might worry that his children wouldn’t take it like that, but would rather blame themselves for how he is feeling. This only makes me respect him more.
I’ve long wished that all parents would be brutally honest about the experience of raising kids. Throwing out statements like “it’s hard” then turning around to sugar coat it with “. . .but it’s all worth it!” does everyone a disservice. I’m so glad my mother — who was not overly joyed to be a mom — broke it down about how much parenting really costs in terms of time, emotion, etc.
I agree Hillari! My mum was never the maternal type and as a kid I used to compare her with all the mothers of kids I went to school with. For many years I thought she was a bad mother but as I got older I realised that there was not much I went without and she did show me a lot of affection. About ten years ago we were talking about me not wanting kids and she told me that when she fell pregnant with me her immediate response was to arrange a termination except my dad talked her into having me. Aren’t we all lucky that I’m here to write this!
Anyway, she told me that she was glad I wasn’t having kids and that I should make the most of life and travel and do whatever I want. She said that she had never wanted kids and if she hadn’t fallen pregnant with me she wouldn’t have had kids at all because raising kids is hard work. At the time I thought “What a bitch” but it’s only now that I’m in my thirties that I realise that my mum did an amazing job in raising me and a pretty good job for someone who wasn’t maternal and didn’t want kids in the first place. Also, looking back I realise that mum did me a favour by being so honest. For many years mum and I weren’t close but we are now which I think is due to me coming to this realisation and that in her telling me this, didn’t mean she loved me any less. As a matter of fact, when people bombard her with “When are they going to make you grandparents” she has told me that she proudly tells them “Oh I have grandpuppies instead. Besides, they’re much too busy travelling the world to have kids!”
I think people who go on about the “greatness” of having kids are frankly ridiculous. Do they not remember being kids, or teenagers? Anyone who goes on about the “absolute greatness” of anything that takes 25 years to do and involves FECES is ridiculous. Doing anything for that long has to be a mixed bag at best. I think those people simply are defensive, especially the women. They got fat, lost their looks and sex drives, gave up or stalled their careers if they had any, downgraded to cheap Kmart clothes and a station wagon, and spend their days cleaning slop and poop and screeching at the kids to shut up/turn off the TV/do homework/etc. They are pitiful and they know they look it. And whats the best defense? An offense. WE are not the pitiful ones, WE have a beautiful amazing child (as said child makes a mess and screams for a new ipod). YOU are the pitiful one because you don’t have this amazing unconditional love (as the child screams I hate you). Its just a way of people to feel better – I don’t have sex anymore, my husband has pretty much disengaged, I have a revolting floppy stomack and breasts down to my ankles, I spend all day cleaning so that everyone else can make a mess again tomorrow, and most of my time is spent chauferring, cooking crap meals and washing. But I have something you don’t! And if I can just trick you into thinking that what I have is desirable, well then, you will envy me, and I will feel a bit better if my life is envied instead of pitied. That’s all. Children are 100% hard work with rewards few and far between. The only people who are happy having them are people who understand how hard the work is, expect nothing in return, and genuinly like children, don’t mind clean ups and truly understand what it all entails. Anyone with goofy ideas about “fulfillment” and “beauty” is quickly disabused of that notion and ends up resentful and most likely divorced.
Another thought – children used to a) serve a purpose and b) be unavoidable. They are now neither and so I just don’t understand anyone who DOESN’T understand not having them. I mean, maybe children were a great idea back when they worked the farm, cleaned the home, left at age 18 and took care of the parents in old age. But now, they serve no actual purpose so other than “I enjoy children,” I see no reason to have them. Ijust don’t know why people care about the procreation of others and feel the need to comment or push.
Thanks everyone for your kind words… and of course the thought provoking comments. I hardly think I’ve got much to add to them.
Childfree Aussie – make that 3 (or is it 4) for the puke bucket. I’d like to stick it on NK’s head. A woman’s “purpose” is to give birth?? I guess she won’t be returning to acting then, since we now all know that her only purpose on earth is to “breed.” So stupid. What kind of message is that for young women who admire her? Hopefully they have more sense. No doubt she’ll be teaching her own kids that too. How sad.
Waterbishop – “Everyone has to pretend that pregnancy and parenthood is all roses and sunshine, or they will be jumped on and chastised for being ‘ungrateful’.” Yes, and that’s sad for them and the kids they’re not very happy parenting.
CFSince Six “it’s not him, it’s this imposed guilt that breeders want to place on others who aren’t worshipping at the alter of parenthood and children…”
I was with some friends a few weeks ago. They had brought along their small child. That in itself wasn’t a problem, we knew getting a sitter was tough that day. The child was tired, fractious, crying throughout and I was exhausted just watching her mother and father trying to pacify her… I doubt her mother has had a hot meal in more than a year. Her mother apologised and said rather ruefully “Does this make you want to have kids?” “Heck, no” I said. A little later the child’s father says to me… “you should have a couple… it’s so well worth it” I nearly fell over. There were just no words.
Kawi – thank you. I’d also say it’s because they probably bought into the story that others sold them… that parenting is the only way to fulfilment and happiness and they found they’d been had.
Lee – “Whenever someone tries too hard to convince me of something, I tend to feel that they are also trying to convince themselves. I’m with britgirl, I’ve seen far too many cases where the “selling points” don’t really seem to be heartfelt.”
No, because they are usually trying to convince themselves they made the right choice.
Swiss Barb – you’re right. That is also taboo. I’ve heard even fewer people admit they felt no real bond with their children when they were bord, because they’d be roundly criticised for admitting that. But apparently it’s not that uncommon. But again the reality is hidden and children grow up knowing something’s not right and parents keep up the facade. Watch any reference in popular media to parents and babies – and they show only an instant and magical bonding. Which leaves me wondering what of those who didn’t have that bonding? They have no support so they bury it.
By the way are you French? I visited your blog. Your command of English is impressive. I wish I could write that fluently in French!
Ken – excellent point… now if only they’d been honest earlier. But then, they’d probably bought into it as well, only to find it wasn’t true. And there were probably no forums or blogs to share or get support from others.
I too admire honest Dad for sharing his feelings, and sad that he can only say it under anonymity. But maybe others reading this will take heart that it’s not as uncommon a feeling as they might think. In the meantime parents who know parenting isn’t all it’s cracked up to be and that some do not like it at all don’t do young people any favours by denying this fact. As you say, they need all the facts to make their decision.
Anne-Marie – thanks! Good point as how does one explain to a child that it’s not because of them?
Hillari – totally agree! You’re mum is one of the few though.
Og217 – nailed it. I find it amazing when people complain so much about how hard parenting is… and then turn around in the same breath and try to convince me to do it “because it’s worth it” and look at me as if I’m crazy when I say I’ve no interest. Exactly what is it worth? Being able to say you’ve had a child and done your bit?
And you are spot on:
“Children are 100% hard work with rewards few and far between. The only people who are happy having them are people who understand how hard the work is, expect nothing in return, and genuinly like children, don’t mind clean ups and truly understand what it all entails.”
These are the very people who we DON’T get to hear. And they would have no problem telling us exactly that… and not to do it unless they are prepared. And you can never be prepared.
cF Aussie – I’m glad you’re here!
Thanks for the compliment britgirl
I’m of German (dad) and French (mom) descent, but was born and have always lived in Switzerland’s French speaking area, hence the ID!
Hi all,
Gosh, I missed this website while I was away! After travelling and visiting family and friends, the subtle pressure they exerted (for me to start thinking of having kids) was getting to be a bit much. So nice to be able to read comments from people who have their head on straight. Britgirl, I have only found this website for half a year of so, but I really enjoy it!
Honest Dad is great, I wish we could have comments like his as required learning in primary and secondary school education (before the young ones who want to get pregnant as soon as they graduate get it ingrained into their heads). Where I live, I see so many young girls and women buying into that whole pressure – if I have a kid, I will be important – and it is so sad to see. They then pop out a few by 23 or 24, and are married to some local dude, and have no lives (and get fat, etc.). Working mothers are not as common here, especially as the evangelical nuts have got their claws into this area (this is not to be mean to all religious people, but I am sure you all know the type I am talking about). In contrast, the friends I have or grew up with at least wait until they are educated and have kids in their late twenties and thirties, which means that they have some life experience and knowledge to pass onto their offspring.
And what is with this whole “who will take can of you when you are old thing (Ken, you made a great point)?” Frankly, I think that my pets will take better care of me than most kids will of their parents these days. I understand those types of comments from people who grew up in the “farm labour” generations, or in some cultures where that is still expected, but in the West that is not the prevailing norm, and will likely continue to be so into the future.
Hi BG and Honest Dad, great post and great comments from everyone
I’m sure there are absolutely thousands if not millions of parents who feel the same way. I too, do not understand the “oh it’s the hardest thing i’ve ever done but you should have kids, it’s different when it’s your own” type of comments…. what?! So basically you are saying you ruined your life, you are jealous of my childless freedom but you are trying to justify it by saying how great it is!