I realise this is a CF site, and i’m really glad i found it as it’s offered a lot of support for me. This is the first site i found offering support on the subject, as i’ve always known kids aren’t for me.
I just think we should take a breath on some of our own replies to the kid loving community. Some breeders are bound to come here! Someone’s gotta bring in the next generation. Just rather them than me

Mother Theresa….childfree…are you telling me her life had no meaning ???!!!! Newflash brainiac – life has meaning in many ways for many people – having kids is not an exclusive way to achieve a meaningful life. You can’t even hold a thought long enough it seems to string a logical argument together (being catholic has no bearing on your original point about a life with no kids having no meaning).

Jenna – the thing about being child free (it seems to me) is that it’s about being able to decide not to bring kids into this world….just because it’s what ‘nature’ intended doesn’t mean we have to do it (otherwise we’d still all be running round screwing and killing each other the whole time!!!). I would say if you want to have kids that’s fantastic and you should….but please don’t tell anyone that they are ‘wrong’ for not thinking like you!

And finally, your comments about ‘down’s’ reveals what an odious, knuckle dragger you are – by all means express your opinion…but come on….try putting thos couple of brain cells to use 1st!

PS – Moral decay…..according to what definition – I can’t wait to see how you define that??!

I’m glad that my comments were helpful in some way. If you were to decide to parent, based on your intelligent and thoughtful post, I am sure that you will do an excellent job, despite the state of the world. If you decide not to, for the same reasons, I am sure that you will create meaning in your life, and contribute to society in other ways.

Despite your posting name, I hope that you are not beating yourself up for decisions that brought you to this point. Because as you said, should you not be able to have a biological child for some reason, providing an abandoned or orphaned baby with a loving home is a wonderful option. Two of the most well balanced, thoughtful, caring, all-around excellent people that I know were adopted, and whenever I’m with them I can’t help but think how well they must have been loved by their adoptive parents. And, because they are my friends I also think how grateful I am that they were chosen.

It’s easy to be swayed one way or another when you are feeling vulnerable, but if you are clear that you are following what is in your heart of hearts and you and your wife are on the same page, you’ll be able to move forward from a position of strength and optimism.

All the best to you. Lee

Thank you for the very insightful observations. I do think my conversion has been rather drastic and I’m a bit suspicious of how genuine it is, since my transformation was largely based on emotions. It could very well be that I am lamenting the loss of an option, just as you said. I also think I have suddenly romanticisized parenthood to a large extent; again, mainly because I think it’s unlikely we can now have a child of our own. I have not ruled out adoption, which I honestly think is a more noble form of parenting for people like me and my wife. We aren’t really ready to consider that just yet, though.

While I still want to be a father someday, I haven’t completely abandoned my initial and long-standing aversion to some of the more odious aspects of child-rearing. I can accept the financial sink-hole, the perpetual mess, the loss of personal freedom and the invariable stress that will come with raising an immature human. The lack of responsible parenting I see writ large in modern society (America, in my case) may be the one thing that makes me glad I don’t have a kid and quietly, reluctantly hope in small ways I don’t get my wish for fatherhood. Good parents are out there, but they are seemingly grossly outnumbered by the hordes that make a brood and expect everyone else to either tolerate or coddle their offspring. I see so many children who are never disciplined or learn to respect others. Education is often not stressed in these same households and they often have no decent adult role models, particularly fathers. These same families drain the resources of the tax paying public and give little in return. I witness this debacle and I truly wonder how current civilization can be sustained. I am glad I am not a child faced with the problems that I think are coming – yet, I also want a child. These two opposing perspectives still battle inside me. Normally, the more pragmatic, logical side wins easily. Now, as the option to have a child seems less likely, I wonder if my initial reservations were as justified as I once believed them to be.

As much as things seem to sliding towards societal entropy, it makes me consider how things might be improved and I look to children and parents. We are going to need the children of good, smart, hard-working and principled people more than ever in the coming decades. I have no way of ensuring the outcome, but if I could raise a child that becomes a good adult, I wouldn’t hesitate to take the risks and make the sacrifices to make it happen.

I am happily childfree, but I just wanted to say that you should not be preemptively sad about not having a child. There are many, many women who get pregnant and do quite well with pregnancy over 40. My mother had me when she was 41 and my brother when she was 43. That was well before the miracles of modern science paved the way for facilitating trouble-free pregnancy in older women. Prenatal care in the 1960’s was nowhere near as sophisticated as it is today and my lill’ bro and I were both big, loud, boisterous babies. I also personally know two women who gave birth at 48 and 50. I think they are nuttier than fruitcakes for doing so , but I just wanted to point out that for those who are inclined toward adding to their family in their 40’s, it is very much within the realm of possibility. I live in NYC and most likely because many here are focused on establishing their careers when they are young, many woman have children in their late 30’s, early 40’s or older.

As far as your depression goes, I think it is normal at any transition stage in life to feel a tug of sadness when considering the path(s) you have chosen for yourself as time rolls on and you look at your life from 10,000 feet. For everything we rule in, we rule something else out and we only know after the fact if we were 100% spot on in how we prioritized. I will say, speaking from my own life experience, sometimes when an option is taken off the table it suddenly becomes more attractive if for no other reason than it is no longer a possibility. Since your conversion is rather recent and seems to be triggered by your wife’s age, you may just be feeling the discomfort of dwindling options.

Best of luck, whatever you decide.

I totally understand why people don’t want or don’t have kids because, believe me, I was as anti-having-my-own-kid as they come. When I thought about what I’d have to give up to have a kid, it drove out any feelings of procreating. I feel differently about things now and see being a parent as a tremendous challenge and life-broadening and enriching experience. The sacrifices I would have to make are ones I would willingly make now. All too many people, however, reproduce without thinking it through or before they are ready, which may explain the misery many people seem to experience when they begin having kids. I have hit most of my personal goals in life and feel reasonably satisfied with my career. I have enjoyed my personal pursuits and liked my freedom. Economic concerns, the increase in crime, (particularly violent crimes against children) and world-wide political instability were all enough in the past for me to be thankful I didn’t have kids. Up until very recently, I was still worried we might actually have a kid and then the party would be over.

Now, reading the medical literature and realizing a kid of our own is unlikely, I feel a kind of emptiness inside. We may yet have a child and if we do, I doubt I’ll really understand the enormity of it until I’m deep in the weeds, as it were. I hope I don’t ever take things for granted, but it’s human nature to do so in regards to just about every facet of life. If my wife and I don’t have children, we have the rest of our lives still ahead of us and it can still be a rich, rewarding experience. I’m not trying to convince anybody of anything with this missive – people need to do what is right for them and other people should butt out. I just wanted to share my opinion and that’s what I did. Thanks for the opportunity.

It just made me think that his expectations are totally unrealistic. Does he really think that if I popped out three kids for him I’d still be off to the gym every morning, finding the time to put on make up and the money to buy nice clothes, in between caring for him, however many children and most likely also working full time?

Honestly, I barely have time to look after myself as it is!

I can’t help but feel that when we part ways and he moves on to a woman who will give him the kids he so desperately wants, he will end up disappointed.

I have to say that all of that turbo-charged parental passion about caring, purpose, meaning and sacrifice seems to come to a screeching halt right at the end of the DNA strand for many.

I came across this link to the advice columnist on Salon that I thought might be interesting reading for some of the fence sitters here or those who live with them. It regards a woman whose husband decided he wanted kids after they married (to give his life meaning) and she still doesn’t want them. Interesting comments from readers and surprisingly not many harpies.

I was shocked at the number of people who commented how the woman may be too old to have kids at 38 anyway. Maybe it’s because I live in an urban area, but none of my friends who wanted them even started to think about it until they were in their mid to late 30’s.

http://letters.salon.com/mwt/col/tenn/2009/04/09/husband_wants_kids/view/index31.html?show=all

Your purpose is to reproduce? Snore. Your lives are so meaningless? Bor-ing! You are so materialistic with your Coach purses and Starbucks? Uhh…I had to look up to find out what made a “Coach” purse so special (ooohhh….the price) and haven’t been in a SB’s for several years (since I learned they don’t actually brew their iced tea). You do great in school? Okay, good for you, have a cookie. 28 is “old”? Hey, enjoy that botox when you turn the ripe old age of 33. Only parents know sacrifice? Yeah, tell that to the vet who has lost his legs at the ripe old age of 23….in fact, tell me, and I’ll relay your message. I’ll be selfishly seeing him in a few days as part of some volunteer work I’m doing. Obviously, I’m not actually contributing anything useful to society as he was already born to another set of people.

As for Jenna – yeah…biologically it’s my purpose to reproduce, or as it was in college, to practice with as many partners as possible. Ha.

My stupid joking aside, go away. I found purpose in my life. I live in paradise right now. I took to Buddhism 15 years ago and obtained a serenity in life most people can’t contemplate. I’m certainly not the stereotypical bald, saffron robe-wearing dude who sweeps beetles out of the way, but I’ve long seen the truth of existence and where my purpose lies, for which reproducing simply was *not* apart of that purpose.

I’m sure you’re right. I really wish that just once one of these people would give me a coherent reason. I don’t understand people who refuse to apply logic and reason to major life decisions. I have this (probably insane) hope that one of them one day will give me some kind of logical explanation for their beliefs, even if I disagree with it. I get so frustrated by people who claim to LOOOOOVE kids, but balk at the idea of adoption. They really just prove your point. They reduce themselves to nothing more than rutting animals, and then call us selfish and base. Sad.

Jenna, why do you have such contempt for people who adopt? You claim that all of us here hate children, thereby implying that you love them. If that’s so, why is “buying other people’s babies” so horrific? Obviously there are many, many children who have no real homes and no real parents. Why do you begrudge them that?

Even before I came to the full decision to be CF, I realized that I didn’t want to reproduce, and that doing so was extremely irresponsible given the current overpopulation problem. I realize that you discount this issue, but if you really do love children as much as you claim, why do you want people to bring more kids onto a planet that may not be able to support them? Yes, humanity is ingenious and we may find ways to provide food, clothing, housing and adequate medical care for everyone eventually, but we aren’t doing it NOW. How is adding to that problem responsible?

These are serious questions, and I’d really like to get a sincere well thought out response from you, although I doubt that I’ll get one. I haven’t ever from anyone with the attitude that you’ve shown here.

Maybe I shouldn’t buy that mocha though. Mayeb I should start saving for fertility treatments for my own nasty 28-year-old eggs? Hmmmm…. I do so desperately want a “meaningful purpose” just like Jenna!

I also greatly envy what seems like an awesome marriage. You are looking into vasectomy reversals for the loser who’s stuck married to you, eh? Just when he thought he could contain the hell of his life, having you and two brats, you, being so smart and all (she’s going to school, y’all! and they have “meaning conversation!’ Can you even IMAGINE what that might sound like????) are going to get him a vasectomy reversal, yippee! Just FYI brainiac – since it’s pretty clear that your husband is screwing other people in an effort to drown out your and your brats’ screeching, a vasectomy reversal may have all sorts of illegitimate consequences. But thats a higher purpose too, I am sure.

Oh well, I’m off to drink a mocha. I can, after all, afford it and $5 is not a “sacrafice” for me. Then I’ll cry into my $100 hankie because I have no higher purpose except fun, sex, friends, travel, and every single material thing I want. And no snot and excrement to wipe! Ok, too hysterical to write any more – convulsing with sobs….

“line breaks”

!