“We childfree people don’t want them to change their minds. The only thing we want is to be left alone. No More and no less.” – Mike.
Mike from Mexico sent me this, hoping that you’d find it interesting. I enjoyed it hugely, not least for the fact that it’s always good to get the male perspective on being childfree. It can often get a little lost because women are so much in the forefront – whether it getting grief from a disapproving society or bingoes from childed colleagues, – and even the odd newspaper hack who’s looking for something to stir, write.
So I hope you’ll enjoy Mike’s take on being childfree from the male point of view and share your thoughts too. I’ve made only minor amendments, so it’s very much as he wrote it. It remains for me to thank Mike for taking the time to share this note…I like nothing better than to post my readers articles. Thanks Mike, for sharing your thoughts with us.
“Hello, I have to say I’m such a big fan of your website, long-time reader; first-time submitter. Kudos to you for having the guts to encourage other childfree people to stand up to the overwhelming breeders’ hegemony. I don’t live in the US (or the UK for that matter) but that hardly makes any difference at all because breeder supremacy is everywhere.
We childfree people don’t want them to change their minds. The only thing we want is to be left alone.No more and no less.
I’m willing to share my thoughts concerning how I decided to become childfree. I hope what I have to say turns out to be interesting for both you and your readers. I’m a young male professional in my early 20’s, I got my college degree (magna cum laude I might add) less than a year ago and right now my future looks kinda promising. I speak five different languages and I’ve always put a lot of effort into being among the best and the brightest. I’ve proceeded
in such a way because I think what we accomplish during our lifetimes is what defines who we are. Great people are remembered for outstanding achievements.
Being a CEO, a distinguished statesman, a brilliant scholar, an outstanding sports-person or a top expert on any subject sounds a lot more impressing (because only a few people can) than just being a breeder (which is something any sheeple can become without much effort).
The most important thing to me, by far, is career advancement. There are other activities I enjoy, like traveling, cool movies, reading, meeting interesting people to have intelligent conversations with, dating girls, hanging out with friends, and being as knowledgeable as possible. Those activities demand a considerable amount of time and other resources, all of which would become immediately scarce if I had any children. Therefore, I’ certain that having a kid or more (God forbid! It’s just an expression, I’m actually completely secular) pretty much would undermine my plans and my happiness. That’s why I’ll get a vasectomy as soon as possible. As a matter of fact, I’m already saving in order to be able to afford it.
Nevertheless, as you are undoubtedly aware, the childfree choice isn’t very popular but hell, I make my own bloody decisions based on my interests, not on what other people think I should do. I would like to emphasize that childfree men have to deal with a lot of crap too.
I mean, pro-breeder propaganda is everywhere (everyday life, home, TV, shopping centres and even in political
campaigns) so it really takes a lot of guts to resist it and it’s even harder when you’re being pressured by people close to you. Thus I have come to realize that only smart and courageous people are the ones that cannot be brainwashed into breeding.
For instance, a relative called me several months ago to congratulate me about my (then) incoming graduation (which I appreciated) and suddenly she asked me when I was going to have children (which I didn’t appreciate). Excuse me?! I mean that was truly out of place because I hadn’t even expressed the slightest desire to father any kids and she was already asking such idiotic question because she took for granted that just because I’m a young pro that must mean somehow I’m absolutely eager to breed.
Some time later, I was visiting another relative and suddenly and for no apparent reason he asked my how much I would love my children (yes, in plural!) and what names would I choose for them (what the hell!?). Even though this time I was REALLY outraged I managed to reply (as diplomatically as I possibly could) that having children wasn’t just part of my life plan because there are some things that are far more important to me. I mean I’m deeply thankful for my relatives for being concerned about me but that does not give them any right to determine my expectations.
Furthermore, it seems that some girls I know are obsessed with having children and the same applies to some of my female professional colleagues. Not surprisingly, their ultimate goal is to be moommies (I just love the term LOL). Now, that’s very convenient because they even openly admit that having a professional education was just a means to get a job so as to be somewhat busy before their marriage and childbirth(s). So their college tuition was basically a huge waste of money because they only attended college to amuse themselves before they breed. How sad and pathetic!
Some of them don’t even mind ending up as trophy wives, just as long as they don’t have to do any real work. I wonder if there is actually something more mediocre than that.
On the other hand, the brightest girls and women I’ve ever met are the ones prone to be childfree. I admire them because they’re smart enough to realise that they’re not walking wombs and that reflects that their self-esteem is higher than that of breeders and wannabreeds. That doesn’t surprise me at all because in fact there seems to be an overall negative correlation between fertility and IQ (see Wikipedia for more details on this). Indeed my brightest college professors (both male and female) were the ones that were childfree. Their bravery also deserves praise because admitting that one doesn’t want to be a breeder is more difficult for women. I guess having more time to
enhance academic profiles is an advantage many childfree people benefit from.
In short, I think my most remarkable legacy will be the amount of accomplishments I can achieve during my lifetime.
That’s what defines me and that’s what people will remember me for. Having kids is by no means any prowess because even illiterates can breed. I don’t give a rat’s ass about other people having their own kids if that’s what they want as long as they don’t intend to impose their pro-breeder agenda on we people who have decided to be childfree. Is
a little bit of consideration, equal treatment and respect too much to ask?
By the way, your website’s new appearance looks great. Kindest regards for you and for all your readers!
Mike from Mexico City”
{ 21 comments… read them below or add one }
Thanks for posting this opinion britgirl!
“Now, that’s very convenient because they even openly admit that having a professional education was just a means to get a job so as to be somewhat busy before their marriage and childbirth(s). So their college tuition was basically a huge waste of money because they only attended college to amuse themselves before they breed.”
That happens quite a lot. I have to disagree on the “huge waste of money” part though. I prefer educated breeders to uneducated ones.
I’m changing jobs at the end of this month and the team I’ll join is going to be 7 men + me. I know there are at least a couple of new/young dads among them. I’m 32 so a very “dangerous” age for the labour market and I’m curious to see if/when they’ll start asking questions about my reproductive views.
You’ll have to let us know how many photos they show you of their kids
And how long before they ask you – or start asking baby tips. From experience I’ve found that in the main men tend not to be as forthcoming as new mothers unless you ask them… but when you do you can’t shut them up. When a guy on our team had his daughter he never brought up the subject… but as soon as I asked how his daughter was doing… it was so clear he’d been bursting to talk about her and was so happy I’d asked. He always ended with “thanks for asking.” I still do ask from time to time… and he’s never asked the “so when are you having kids.. .”ior started pontificating.
But with 7 men on your team you might have a very different situation. Can’t wait to hear
With 7 men on your team, you might also have a lot of fun. *wink,wink*nudge,nudge
Thanks for sharing your story, childfreeman. I used to think ( because of the way males talk) that I’d have no trouble at all finding a man who didn’t want children, but the opposite ended up being true. Two husbands, both of whom ended up wanting children. Hence, two divorces.
I was starting to wonder if there were any men (besides the one I’m married to now) who honestly didn’t want kids, and it’s nice to know you’re out there.
(Why?)
Because, I think, men have a lot less personal involvement (no pregnancy, no breastfeeding, no expectations of being the primary nurturer), they’re less likely to have a strong desire to NOT have children.
And women, because of their larger involvement, are probably far more likely to say “No! GOD no!”
Your reluctance suggests to me you’re aware that your part in being a father would involve a lot more than donating sperm.
Mike, I think that having a vasectomy fits with your plans perfectly. Nothing announces loud and clear to a prospective partner that you don’t want any kids like being incapable to produce them… you won’t accidentally get stuck with a woman who hopes you’ll change your mind eventually. A woman who respects and understands your commitment to your life as an adult is going to think that’s mighty appealing.
I did a double-take when I read about the second relative giving you the bingoes…. a man! Normally I imagine women being the ones who are so nosy as to question someone’s reproductive status and men being more circumspect. Since you’re in your early twenties, I’m sure you get the “you’ll change your mind when you’re older” argument from family and other busybodies, but I think it’s awesome that you have come to this decision so early. Kudos and thanks for sharing.
Britgirl… I love the redesign, btw.
I’m visiting my parents and just yesterday had a massive brawl about this, ha ha. They took it upon themselves to corner my husband alone and badger him about when he’s going to get me pregnant. We’ve made it perfectly clear that we’ve made our decision years ago and that the topic is not up for vote or discussion, but I suppose some stupid pathetic part of their heads thinks that irritating me and making my husband uncomfortable is going to make us want some permanent live-in thing to annoy us and make us uncomfortable. I don’t know why relatives do that. All they accomplish is a distance and fewer visits. If we’re uncomfortable visiting my parents, with whom I am not at all close, we just won’t visit them, it seems obvious. We’re not going to have a child to make the visits less annoying, you know? I’m perfectly happy with birth control, but I am now considering an actual permanent procedure. I’m only 29, I don’t want to spend 15 years being nagged to produce some screeching brat out of my vagina – jeez, how horrid! To have your parents discussing things involving MY vagina and my husband’s penis is enough to make me retch. In what alternate universe is this an acceptable topic to bring up? Really.
Your parents are probably using the “divide and conquer” Corner one half of the couple once they know the pressure doesn’t work on the other… relatives do that because they think they are being clever… and they think it works. I think the script goes something like… “maybe HE can talk some sense into her/change her mind/come round..” Ack.
og217 – Good point. Shows that breeders are rarely logical. Children should be wanted – why pressure someone into something so completely lifechanging where they will be miserable and blame you for it? britgirl is probably right about the divide and conquer thing though.
“To have your parents discussing things involving MY vagina and my husband’s penis is enough to make me retch. In what alternate universe is this an acceptable topic to bring up?”
Love this comment!!!!
Now I just need to figure out how to put it into a comeback for a bingo – that will shut bingoers up quickly!
I greatly appreciate hearing his thoughts on being a childfree man. This is something that we don’t hear enough about and really needs to be heard more often.
I think a lot of the poison directed at women who are childfree is done so because of old, ingrained thoughts that women are allegedly easier to bully, push around and manipulate into following the crowd. But if more childfree men gathered in a group and make their voices just as loud against mindless breeding, I believe a lot of the childfree opponents would have to back up.
I’ve just seen a couple of ads on the tv. One was for State Farm, where a 30-ish new father was holding a newish-born baby and gazing enraptured at her face – in a hospital room…. The voice over (with drippy music) goes “Nothing matters more than being there for her…” 30-ish man looks resolutely out of the window… silently agreeing and saying goodbye to old life… complete with awed look in his eyes.
2nd ad was for Home Depot… young wife gets gift for young dad…and he’s very happy – until she gestures to her tummy (obviously has bun in oven) which is even GREATER, more perfect, more wonderful gift than silly old hammer drill.
Insurance. Home. Very Guy.
Boys, they are talking to you, so that vasectomy might be the only line of defence. And since you will also come under pressure to reverse it, best to be prepared for the pressure.
Babies in ads are so annoying. It kinda makes me long for the time when ads for anything used to have gorgeous and scantily clad women all over the place (at least that was the case in Europe)…
Just kidding!
My first post!
I wonder how easy you will find it, Mike from mexico, to actually get a vasectomy.
We are childfree, a decision we came to mutually a few years ago while we were still in our late teens because lets face it, when you look at the subject of breeding using logic and reason it really doesnt make very much sense on this crazy, overpopulated planet and to be honest there is no way I would want to give up the life that I have with my other half, and no way I would want to share him and the list of reasons (which you all know) goes on and on.
Unfortunately our local health service do not share this opinion.
When I asked to be referred for sterilaisation I was told categorically there was no way I would even be taken seriously until I had at least two children! and that even then it would be hard for me to convince them. They gave me the whole “you are only young, you may change your mind”. I pointed out to them that if I were already pregnant they would not be advising me, a 23 year old woman, to abort in case I later decided I didnt actually want a child, and that if I were asking for IVF they would take my request seriously. Their response “yes, but you might change your mind”. Hmmm.
So next, Himself went off to the GP to ask for a vasectomy. The GP was flabbergasted, but agreed to make a referral. Imagine how insulted we felt when we received a letter a couple of weeks later stating that until He was 30 He would not be considered, or even given an appointment to discuss the procedure. The letter also stated that He would not be allowed to have a vasectomy even after his 30th birthday unless I also gave my consent! With the letter the health service had provided a leaflet called “your guide to contraception” which explained how to use condoms and the pill. We were so offended that we could not even be taken seriously my the medical profession.
Has anyone else had similar experiences of this issue, and how did you overcome it?
My first husband and I tried to get him a vasectomy when he was 27. His mother had been bi-polar, he suffered from bouts of depression, and he was adamant that he was not going to risk having a child inherit the condition. The doctors were completely condescending, told us to have a few kids first and come back, and he had to press and press before they finally allowed him his procedure. I think the guilt of having it done triggered an emotional response and loss that eventually ended our marriage, and he told me two years ago that he and his girlfriend were trying to get it reversed because he had dealt with his own mental health issues and was ready to settle down. Not the usual story, since his wanting to be childfree came from a different perspective, but the health professionals were quite difficult and it took a lot of perseverance to get it done.
Britgirl, thanks a lot for posting my viewpoint on your website.
I’d like to say that I’m aware that getting a vasectomy isn’t going to be easy but I’ll do everything in my power to get it done. The reason I’m so adamant about is because, like Britgirl pointed out, that’s the ultimate line of defence. Moreover, I know it’s easier, safer and simpler than a tubal.
Such decision will not be changed to satisfy anyone else and once it’s done it won’t be reversed because a) it could be potentially health-endangering b) it’s expensive c) I’ve made up my mind. This procedure is far from being a disadvantage. I think childfree couples can be actually more fulfilling than breeder ones because the former’s members have the opportunity to enjoy one another in the fullest possible terms due to the fact the bond they share is not about children at all (they have the chance to focus on both themselves and each other) so that provides a solid ground for a very rewarding long-term relationship. Furthermore, more often than not, childfree-minded girls and women tend to be cooler, smarter, funnier and far more interesting (and, from a male perspective, I’ve got to tell you that I realise their natural charm/beauty lasts longer) than female breeders. The typical breeder lifestyle is possibly one of the most boring things ever. I think that men and women who regard their SOs as mating partners behave in an insulting manner because that reflects that they see them as little more than walking wombs/sperm donors.
Thus, I think it’s fairly reasonable to conclude that childfree men and women are actually more thoughtful, mindful, respectful and considerate than their breeder counterparts.
Britgirl, kindest regards and best wishes to you and to all of your readers!
Mike -just be prepared to stand strong in the face of the request to reverse your vasectomy. You probably won’t be surprised that often the reaction of someone who wants children to the news of a vasectomy is often “but you can reverse it, can’t you?” and when you say “no” you will get: something along the lines of : “I heard that so-and-so had a reversal and it worked.” Then “perhaps we should see a specialist and find out ( if you can get it reversed).”
Of course, if you listen for it you can squash that argument early. And at least there are no chances for getting oopsed.
Mike – while I agree with many of the points you have raised, I’m also a little irked by your seemingly condescending attitude towards childed people.
Don’t get me wrong, I am CF and have been all my life (I’m nearly 31) and have faced every bingo (and more – being female) that you have.
However, being a little bit older than you – and please don’t take this as a patronising comment – I have also learned that one size does not fit all.
Much as it pains you, there are people out there who DO want children. Not all of them are ‘breeders’ – many of them are fine and fit parents – and they have made a mature and reasoned choice to have children. This does not make them ’sheeple’.
On the other hand, CF people have made the considered and rational choice to NOT have children. This does not make them ‘rebels’, ‘deviants’ or ‘outwith the herd’ – they have simply made a choice.
I am not in any way mocking or degenerating your feelings – just pointing out that the fact that we have chosen to be CF does not make us in any way superior to or better than those who have chosen (please note my use of the word ‘chosen’) to have children.
A superior attitude and use of derogatory language (particularly with reference to women) will not get you far in any world, CF or otherwise.
I congratulate you on your obviously mature and rational choice, but would caution you against lumping any section of society into one fallow category, lest it jump out and bite you on the a*se.
Best of luck.
Rhona, this is no way meant as offense to yourself or even invoking the whole male/female dynamic, but really, none of what Mike wrote was any more or less offensive than what regularly gets posted on Brit Girl’s site or even the forums. I get the impression that mostly women visit this site with a few men (including me) sprinkled in there, the overriding opinions will come from women. That’s fine. Britgirl does a great job at blogging opinions and covering all opinions of both men and women. Anyway, to cut to the chase, I’ve read far more condescending and acidic comments made by some of the female majority here that put anything Mike wrote to shame.
I’m younger than either of you, and believe me, my ego was once huge enough to fulfill several life times (younger time and flush with cash, people, drugs and alcohol were once mere objects), but I also long ago realized questioning the moral majority of any clique brings out all the nasty stereotypes and opinions!
@Sean @Mike – I would love to many more childfree men posting their thoughts and opinions here. I don’t think we hear from you nearly enough – nor are your voices as well represented, which is why I almost jumped for joy when Mike sent me what was clearly a well thought out post. Even though women are generally the main target for the “you must have a baby or you’re not normal” brigade, I know that many men face this pressure too. May be not as early, but they will face it. And even though women don’t have as much support as we would like – I think men have even less – especially if they are childfree and their partner is decidedly not.
There are so many angles to explore from the childfree man’s point of view, and I would love to hear more of them and blog them for discussion.
I will try to post more often. This blog helped give me the confidence I needed to move forward with making my choice to be childfree permanent and have a vasectomy. The least I can do is try to contribute more to the discussion.
to be breed or not to breed is not a cut-and-dried issue where one side is completely good and the other completely bad. i am a 29-y.o. male who went to college etc but had deep-seated emotional issues that i am only now getting resolved. i would have been patently unfit to be a parent. and today, i like my current freedoms.
however..although the no-kids lifestyle might suit someone NOW..how would he feel when he was 59?
would he still prize the relative social independence and financial freedom?
or would their lustre have begun to wane..and a deep-seated primordial desire for genetic survival and a new role as mentor and elder begin to emerge as a rival in his psyche?
it would be interesting to know what child-free people (particularly men) feel as they are on their deathbed.
could it possibly be a vague but definite sense of ’something being missing’…no matter how many millions they made and spent in their lives?
i guess its hard to know, the child-free experiment is only really beginning.
which doesnt help current deciders much!
@ ben – the child-free experiment is only really beginning.” I don’t look at being childfree as an “experiment” personally. And I disagree that it’s just beginning – before the age of blogs there were plenty of men and women who did not have children by choice. We’re not at liberty to know what anyone is thinking on their deathbed.. but whatever it is, it’s too late anyway. One would hope that if one made a choice and were happy with that choice all one’s life then that would be the sentiment. I see no reason why someone who made a choice to be childfree shouldn’t be happy with it at any age – as long as it’s what they want to be and they lived the life they wanted to. But might they suddenly want kids? They might.
People are often quick to tell men (bingo) and women for that matter that if they don’t have kids they’ll regret it when they’re older, richer, poorer, lonely, dying etc, It’s one reason people rush off to create a mini-them… fear.
I had a few thoughts re: this comment.
1. If one needs/is looking for scientific data to support the childfree decision, the most recent studies done do conclude that child free couples are happier than couples with children.
2. Who is to say that parenting is not “an experiment” for a lot of people. Given the fact that it in all cultures it is taboo to admit you don’t like being a parent, assuming that everyone does enjoy it is rather naive. For instance, if you type “I hate being a mom” into Google, you’ll get over 23 million hits.
3. Whether you choose to parent or not, there are no guarantees that you will have a meaningful, fulfilling life unless you have made the effort to create one.
4. If you would like to gain some insight into the reality of old age for many people in the U.S., volunteer in a nursing home or retirement community. Those who have children are lucky if they see them twice a year.
5. The writer seems to assume that the only reason that people choose to not have children is so that they can amass a fortune or live a life unfettered from responsibility. There are wealthy people with children who leave the “mentoring” to nannies and there are medium income childfree people who volunteer (mentor) in their communities. There are medium income parents who don’t mentor their own children, let alone other other people’s, and there are childfree millionaire/billionaire philanthropists who, in a variety of ways, help to support/educate/mentor thousands every year. While it’s easy to bin people, it’s not particularly useful
6. You will most likely not ever get a definitive ruling from on high about the childfree choice. Obviously, what makes people happy varies greatly from person to person. However, as I type this, the planet is deciding for everyone what works and what doesn’t. We cannot continue to sustain the current level of population growth without doing more permanent damage to the environment. In the coming decades we will reach a tipping point where life as we know it will be ecologically unsupportable.