One of the most annoying childfree bingoes is the one that pops up the most when you say you’re childfree or you don’t want children. “You’ll change your mind.” It doesn’t really matter the reason, but, people say sagely, you will change your mind. The implication is no matter your protestations of not wanting kids, something much greater – usually the feeling that you must have a child – will have you off the fence and down on the “other” side pretty quickly. The younger you are when you announce you’re child free, or that you don’t want children, the more likely you are to be told you’ll change your mind. As far as you’re concerned though, it’s settled you’re not changing your mind.
The last article about Bob Childfree? Bob You’re Not Alone has some amazing insightful comments (which I thank everyone for sharing) nearly all of which could be a post in itself. The post got me thinking – I felt for Bob. I would hate to be in a situation which seems to be a no-win – being childfree yet faced with potentially having to give up my relationship because of that choice – a choice we’d both agreed to. That is an awful choice for anyone to have to make. The comments also got me thinking as they always do… what if it were me? One of the big reasons we decided not to have children was that we wanted to put each other first. We didn’t think that would be possible if we had kids. While everyone said having children only makes it better, we saw much to the contrary. The point is we didn’t think it would be true in our case, and we didn’t think we needed a child to make our relationship “better”. Whatever the case, we didn’t want kids enough to risk it.
I know that if my beloved suddenly had a hankering for having babies (he won’t) there is no way I would even consider having one. I am not even open to it. It’s less about being childfree – although that is key – and more about the fact I just do not want children and I know that having them when you don’t want them is a recipe for unhappiness. And I don’t see why I should agree to such a disruptive event to please someone else (always remembering of course that we both agree this was what we wanted). Some might say that if one of the couple suddenly wanted kids and the other didn’t, it would prove the love if the person who didn’t want them had them. I think this is the perfect road for the guilt trip. Unfortunately some buy it.
This brings me to my central question. I have always believed the childfree choice is a state of mind. More – a state of being. You’ve chosen not to have children, and you know you don’t want to have them for whatever reason. And, most importantly, you are happy with that choice. That means you aren’t childless, you’re childfree.
So if, being childfree you then consider and decide (for whatever reason) to have a child, are you still childfree? And if so, why? Or have you crossed some invisible line into being “childless” rather than childfree. Is it possible to say “I’m child-free but I would probably have a baby if ….”
The reasons could be myriad… to save a relationship, to avoid resentment, to keep the peace, to fit in, to make someone else happy… it doesn’t really matter
But if you agree does that effectively mean you have after all changed your mind?
Some say the childfree choice isn’t simple. It’s certainly not an easy road to travel, as we’ve seen. You find very little support. For me, it has always been quite simple. If I was asked or it was even implied that I should consider having kids it would entail me doing something I patently do not want to do. And if I do not want to do it and feel it is not right, I have to ask myself why am I doing it?
For others in the midst of having to make a painful choice it may not seem as simple, fundamentally it comes down to making your own choice. So is the answer to give in and have a child? And what if you suddenly decide, after years of being childfree, that you want to have a child…are you/were you childfree. Let’s leave aside the intense societal pressure that insists that having a child is the answer… the person who wants one is usually encouraged they are right (because it’s natural), and, as has been observed in the comments, the one who doesn’t is the unnatural one.
As Lurker says, “to parent or not to parent” is the question. There are really no ifs and buts. You either will – or you won’t. I’d go further and say that if there is pressure from without: “to give in or not to give in.” In the end, doesn’t it come down to your choice?
I know there are childfree people who have given up relationships because of this one wanted kids and the other didn’t. And there are many happily childfree couples for whom this would be a non-issue. There are also many young men and women who for the first time are realizing they can be childfree, that they don’t automatically have to have children and that they can choose. What do we tell them? Does it even matter? I think it does.
And here’s another thing. Would someone who loves you really want you to something they know you don’t want to do?
OK, over to you. Do you think the childfree state of being is changeable? Is it a question of standing firm and being true to yourself – despite the lack of support? Or does a sudden change of heart by a significant other mean you change your mind? Where do you draw the line?
There are far more questions than answers in this post. As always your comments are most welcome.
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I know I wouldn’t have children for the sake of my partner. Imagine if he cheated on me, or if he didn’t find me attractive anymore (as seen in some true dad confessions), if he expected too much of me; any thing he did that upset me would make me feel twice as resentful, not only towards him but towards our child as well.
Even just the thought of having children makes me feel depressed, trapped, frustrated; what is the point in saving a relationship if that’s how I’m going to feel about it? You’re tempted to save a relationship because it makes you happy, but if you’re sacrificing your happiness for the sake of the relationship, what have you achieved!?
As to whether it changes the label; I don’t think it does.
I read once that there is a (yet to be examined) theory that being childfree is genetic, similar to the theory that being gay is genetic. Reading that made me draw many comparisons between the two states of being; if you’re gay, or childfree, there are no reasons for it, you just are that way and always have been. If a gay man is married for 30 years and then leaves his wife for another man, was he straight for 30 years and is now gay? No, he was always gay. Similarly, I feel that a childfree person can have a child and still be childfree in their heart.
If I ever change my mind (don’t think I ever will), but let’s assume it for the experiment, it would either be willingly (we both want it) or reluctantly (my DH wants it). I think I would keep an espace door (if it’s reluctantly) and tell my DH, should we separate, you keep the kid. It’s all yours. And I’m not paying alimony, because I never wanted it in the first place. You wanted it, it’s your responsibility. But these are all assumptions. In fact, I love my life as it is. I am finally content in my peaceful oasis. Why risk it? I don’t think I could be happier. I think the ones who were content but have children to be happier are making a huge mistake. They seek a perpetual orgasmic feeling that they think happiness should be and they think children will bring it. For me, it’s not having problems and living calmly. I have my own home, a nice job (not under nor overpaid), a husband I love dearly and a furry son. I get to enjoy my hobbies when I want to. What could I possibly want more?
Well, I had my kids early while I was in law school, so at 40 my kids are able to care for themselves most of the time and I have the rest of my life ahead of me and a family to share it with down the road. On my experience, it’s only when people hit a certain age, or a life changing event occurs and thrown it hits the ” wow, the best years of my life are behind me and here I am at middle age with no family, no love, just my material possessions and career to caper me”
I think it’s just human nature to not want something until you realize you’ll never ever have it.
I think everyone is different and all of us are in different stages in our lives. I rarely make a diffinitive statement anymore because I’ve been proven wrong too many times. I said since I was young I would never get married but when I met my husband I finally realized why people do it. I still think the whole thing is kind of crap, the relationship part is what matters. Right now at 31 I don’t want children, at all. I mean in some ways it seems nice but not enough to do it. My husband has a daughter but she’s not in our lives (long story) and he doesn’t want anymore children. I can’t say never but I know right now I have no future interest. I don’t think I ever will but who knows. I know at least if I change my mind I can change my lifestyle, if I have a kid there is no going back.
well, as a woman only a few more years and you will never ever have a family. Have kids now and in your 40′s they will be teenagers and capable of Caring for themslelbes for the most part. Them you have the best of both worlds.
Bringing a human being into a family who doesn’t definitely love them is no way to create a person. You should never create a person because you “should”, it’s cruel to the new human and unfair to the adults. And, no, it’s not true that everyone loves their child one they’re born – as many as 20% do not feel so. Please, understand that a child is not the answer, but a choice. One that involves a third person who has no say in the matter.
I think a sudden change of mind to have kids after years of being childfree is *not* about children at all. I think it’s about a dissatisfaction in other realms of life that the formerly-childfree person thinks can be fixed somehow by having a baby. Magical thinking.
We know that it’s sad and disturbing to see fourteen-year-old girls who decide they want a baby because they want someone to depend on them/love them/whatever. But when a formerly happily childfree woman in her thirties changes her mind, people coo over her and she’s the center of attention for nine months. (This is why I recommended therapy for the woman in the previous article–I don’t think her distraught state would really be solved by having a child. And at the very least, if she were still determined to have one and Bob gave up on his marriage, he would have at least tried hard to save a relationship that made him truly happy.)
The first time I told someone else I didn’t want to have children, it was my World Cultures teacher in tenth grade in the context of an overpopulation lesson. He said I’d change my mind. I said “Don’t you see enough teenagers all day to know that some people wouldn’t want them in their home?” He said some teenagers were very nice and that I myself was a good egg, and I realized he had no idea who I really was. Soon after I told my grandmother and she said it was too early to make that kind of decision. As I’ve grown up, she has been sad that I haven’t had a child–but do you know what? She has five grandchildren. Only one of us has reproduced, and I think even that grandchild didn’t want to. And we would all do just about anything for her, but we aren’t having kids, even though it makes her sad. She wouldn’t be raising them!
As a committed childfree person, I don’t believe that I should have to change my mind about how I want to live my life just for my partner. If he changed his mind and wanted a child, that means he changed his mind about wanting *me* as a partner. He can’t have both, because I can’t change my mind about that. Me + him + a child = a relationship that no longer makes me happy and is not worth saving. But I would make damn sure I knew what was really behind his change of heart. It’s just not that simple for someone who has spent years supposedly being “sure” he doesn’t want a child in the house to one day wake up and say “I want a baby now and I will always want one and never change my mind and wish we hadn’t done this.”
Even hardcore parents have days where they wish they hadn’t done it!
“I think a sudden change of mind to have kids after years of being childfree is *not* about children at all. I think it’s about a dissatisfaction in other realms of life that the formerly-childfree person thinks can be fixed somehow by having a baby. Magical thinking.”
Tricia, that’s an excellent point.
Looking for meaning in life? Have a round of unprotected sex! Much easier than finding a hobby, making friends or doing volunteer work!
It just seems like an easy out…for a very short period of time, anyway. I guess I wouldn’t call them childfree anymore, but they will probably wish they had remained childfree and put more thought and effort into what would really bring them happiness.
“Looking for meaning in life? Have a round of unprotected sex! Much easier than finding a hobby, making friends or doing volunteer work!”
Xena, that is hilarious! I have got to find a way to sneak that into a bingo conversation at some point.
That definitely made me giggle.
If my husband changes his mind about not wanting children, he also changes his mind about wanting me as a partner. As painful as it would be for me to go through that, I am who I am, and wouldn’t change my childfree status for anyone. At 27, I couldn’t think of a better present for myself than to get sterilized. My husband thinks we should wait. I told him if something happens and we had a child (although I’m pro-choice to my core) he would be responsible for taking care of the kid. I hoped that by proverbially pre-abandoning our own child he might begin to understand my deep disdain at even the idea.
It’s tough sometimes, but being childfree is one of my deepest convictions. I can’t quite explain it, it’s just there, and has always been there. The older I get, the stronger it grows. I don’t even want to be fertile, not in the least. I have nightmares about forgetting a birth control pill. Ridding the possibility altogether would make me so happy.
We’ll see where life goes from here as far as my husband’s feelings on the issue, but I know that having a child, for me, would be a complete and permanent loss of identity, and no amount of spousal love and support could ever help me find myself again.
… being childfree is one of my deepest convictions. I can’t quite explain it, it’s just there, and has always been there. The older I get, the stronger it grows. I don’t even want to be fertile, not in the least.
This resonated with me so much.
It resonated with me too. Except for the second part. There is no open door for something down the line or for me to change my mind. But I’m not sure having having a child and wishing you didn’t means you’re childfree.
Putting aside individual definitions, what you believe has to be lived out in your actions. So, for me, if you’re childfree, you’ve never given birth – by choice – you don’t want to give birth – by choice you’re happy with your choice and giving birth isn’t even a consideration – at least at that point.
You don’t have your own children, but you can be involved with children on a daily basis. You just don’t want – and don’t need to have any of your own.
If you have kids and you decide you suddenly wish you didn’t that’s neither here nor there – you have children or you’re childed – you are a parent. I can’t see how you can be a parent and be childfree at the same time.
I look at childfree as being exactly that – free of the needing wanting, giving birth to, parent-maybe-in-waiting-for your OWN children.
I’ve always felt that if someone makes a serious statement — like, “I don’t want children”, for example — then it should be taken at face value.
When a childfree person decides they want to be parents, they cannot honestly claim childfree status anymore. They go into the world of the childless, until they have a child. After all, there are many parents who openly resent their children, but that does not negate the fact that they are parents.
Hillari -I’d say the same. It’s very interesting this discussion because the term “childfree” was invented because men and women – primarily women needed something to describe themselves other than “Childless”. Because you either wanted children – and had them (parents) or you wanted them and couldn’t have them – or were were waiting to have them – childless.
Whereas the childfree folk actively did not want children, now and had no intention of having them in the future, took all the stick and criticism and were clear it was a choice they were exercising.
I’ve known from an early age that I didn’t want children. It’s just the way I am, like having dark hair or bad eyesight. Any partner of mine who can’t accept that (and there have been a few) isn’t the right person to be with me, no matter how wonderful they are in other ways. Someone who truly cared for me wouldn’t want to see me put through the misery that childbearing and motherhood would mean for me. It’s something I have nightmares about.
As to whether it is genetic, who knows? If that were the case, surely the CF gene will eventually die out, now that we actually have some control over our own reproduction. Like the whole question of homosexual/heterosexual/bisexual/asexual, I think the picture is more complex – a mixture of genetic, environmental and cultural factors. What I do hope in time is that our very need to call ourselves CF becomes redundant – that people’s choice about whether to reproduce or not becomes perceived as far less defining than it is at present, and becomes just another personal characteristic, instead of a category setting one part of society apart from another.
The meaning of “childfree” causes a lot of debate on CF communities. If you make children, you’re not childfree for sure. If you want to make children but don’t have them (yet), you’re childless. it gets a little foggy if you’re a step parent or a legal guardian – can you still be CF while parenting any child? As to how you get to any state, there are a whole lot of shades of grey.
Life changes along the way. A CF guy may be adamant, but find himself on the wrong end of an accident and decide to do the decent thing. An infertile person may start off childless and move to childfree. Someone pointed out the other day that the only way you can ‘prove’ you’re childfree is to die without children, and that takes a long time and seems a bit unnecessary.
if people project CF and then end up with kids for whatever reason, accident, changed mind, whatever, then sure, that’s annoying for the rest of us who have made the CF decision and intend to stick to it. But that’s life, and more specifically their life – it has no impact on me. My actions are completely independent of theirs, which is one of the reason why this particular bingo is some damn annoying – this isn’t the Borg or some sort of groupspeak.
In the end, childfree is just a word, and like most words, takes it meaning from the context in which it’s used. As long as people are happy with their choices, who cares?
“In the end, childfree is just a word, and like most words, takes it meaning from the context in which it’s used. As long as people are happy with their choices, who cares?”
True it’s a word. But it’s the origin of that word that makes it so interesting – and to me somewhat more meaningful. Before the word “childfree” there was only “childless” or “parent.”To most of the pro-natal world those words are the only two that matter. One means lack the other means – to some – the pinnacle of achievement and a state everyone should be aiming for. I see “childfree” to a great extent as freedom from the confines of the childless moniker to an alternative that expresses choice and gets away from the notion that all every woman ever wants is to have a child. And I think that those women who coined the word argued for it. I am happy simply saying “I don’t want children.” I don’t need to really use the word, although it’s useful to have it. But I clearly remember when I first saw the word (I was avidly reading everything I could on being childfree) how I had an “aha” moment… because it described what I felt so well.
So yes, it’s just a word… and most of the time saying “I don’t want kids” usually suffices but whenever I think of childfree I personally think of freedom – from the expectation to want, need and have kids now or ever.
I am militantly childfree, but I am open enough to admit there is the possibilty my mind will change if enough hormones kick in. Will I be happy afterwards? Who knows? But I think once you have a child, even if you don’t want it and are doing so to make somebody else happy, you are by definition NOT childfree.
Alternately, I’m sure more than a few women were pro-baby until they actually had kids, and then found out that having a child wasn’t as satisfying as advertised. But the pro-child culture demands that the mother puts on a happy face regardless, because admitting elsewise means you are a failure.
If you ask a salesman how his business is, he’ll always say, “Great!”, even if he’s eating ramen noodles for dinner that entire month. It’s all about saving face.
Wow, I miss a couple of weeks and I miss some fantastic conversations. The last couple of posts and comments have been very interesting reading.
As for being childfree, I believe ultimately you have to be true to yourself. We all have to face our own personal selves in the mirror of our souls. If you’re trying to keep up with the Jones, buckle under pressure, or fit in when deep down inside it isn’t really you, you’ll never be happy.
I’ve had guys walk away because I don’t ever want children. That was who they were and I respect their choice. My choice is being childfree and I will never relent on it. Lucky for me some surgery over 10 years ago made it impossible. I remember when the doctor told me I had to have the surgery, I felt such freedom and lightness. Having children isn’t even a physical option any more! Hooray! I do my happy dance.
That is my choice and how I am true to myself. I can face that inner mirror and feel at peace. The outside can babble all it wants about how meaningful, worthwhile, blah blah blah but I have to face myself inside. I believe that is only true compass any of us can really have. How does it feel deep inside? Is it right for you?
Follow that feeling. It’s the real you.
“I felt such freedom and lightness. Having children isn’t even a physical option any more! Hooray! I do my happy dance.” Yay! I remember you telling me this story a few years ago RMS. You had a party, and I wished I’d been at it LOL!
What if the scenario is switched around a bit?
Instead of one partner going along with having children to save the relationship, suppose one of the partners just goes along with NOT having children because s/he doesn’t want to break up a marriage? Is that person childfree? Does it even happen? I don’t know anyone like that, but it has to have happened somewhere….
Mark, I’m sure it must have happened somewhere. But they have to be content with their choice/decision and not want children to be really childfree
. None of this resentment stuff, repoaching the other person, or emotionally blackmailing the other or bringing it up in so many little ways. But I agree, why can’t the person who wanted to have the child, just decide not to want it? Some will say it’s impossible to stop wanting a child.. therefore the one who doesn’t want one should just give in. I disagree.
What a brilliant thread – some very interesting points here.
I am militantly CF and becoming moreso as I get older (I’m 30), but I have a number of fears attached to this, strengthened by the fact that my OH and I are getting married in a couple of years. He is decidedly ambiguous re my CF status (although I have NEVER made a secret of it in the six years we’ve been together) and comes from a strongly pro-natalist family.
When he proposed, I did say that my CF state of mind is pretty much non-negotiable and he must be aware of and accepting of that, but I have a nagging fear that he assumes I’ll ‘change my mind’ and that the bio-clock will begin ticking.
While I am very much a ‘never say never’ person and can only make a guess at the future rather than a firm prediction, I do not want somebody whom I love and care about to follow a life path which is based on the fragile hope that I will suddenly become another person.
Advice on this situation would be very much appreciated (sorry for TJ)!
Kids are a two-yes, one-no decision. And for the partner to cry at the sign of a toy is very manipulative.
Kids should be all about the kids. So, it’s a loving thing to drag one partner into it? How much does she love YOU if she’d drag you into a decision. The kid will be there even if the relationship doesn’t survive, and believe me, if she’d cry and manipulate you into a decision, you’ll have more problems when a kid arrives. You may find you’ll like the kid more than her over the years, because if she has so little regard for a kid’s experience that she’d drag one parent into the decision to make HER happy, she is not really focused on the kid our you. Sure, she may have a desire, but the crying and the walking on egg shells until she gets what she wants, believe me, that problem solving technique will not go away for her and your relationship may be in more trouble than you realize. Sure, and having a kid will reduce the stress in the relationship….
It may be that she decides she wants a kid more than you. That’s telling.
I know, I know, you like her smell, having sex, the fun times, the thought of breaking up seems impossible. But if you do not want a kid, you cannot do that to another life. To look at a kid, “because if I didn’t – she’d hold me hostage to her crying at toys and break up with me.” Believe me, eventually, the kid will sense your attitude. Now you’ve got two people crying to get their way and threatening to leave- but not leave- but holding you hostage.
If you change your mind, cool. But under duress of losing the sex connection and the partner isn’t the way.
If I were you, I’d watch the birth control, because the next thing is an “Opps” (but not opps) pregnancy.
“But if you do not want a kid, you cannot do that to another life. To look at a kid, “because if I didn’t – she’d hold me hostage to her crying at toys and break up with me.” Believe me, eventually, the kid will sense your attitude. Now you’ve got two people crying to get their way and threatening to leave- but not leave- but holding you hostage.”
Well said. It’s sad that people proposing to be parents do so little thinking about the child. It’s all about them. Kids are collateral damage.
Bang on about the oopsing, of course a vasectomy is the best birth control if a man really doesn’t want kids. Everything else is subject to… mysterious failure.
I have made serious thoughts about why I do NOT want kids.
If I still decide to have them it would be a step towards the unknown. And like most other things which is uncertain it would be more comfortable to not think too much about what could go wrong. I think many are trapped like that when someone tell them kids are the natural thing to do. But why is it that many still decide to not reproduce? Because I do not think it is just by coincidence.
Even if I sometimes feel my life could get more substance if I had to parent. At the age of 37 I have earned myself a vasectomy and I am still free of children. I feel desire to be sarcastic when I see how many parents interact and I do not long for a child unless you consider my wish to be accepted among others. Does this mean I will be CF forever and always have been CF?
The answer I believe will be found only in my actions. If in 30 years and by choice I am still without children, then I would certainly consider myself as CF. Even if I would feel loneliness or even regret, it does not really matter. When I could make the choice to reproduce or not, then I chose to NOT!
Genes or not genes? Who knows??
Scientists do still not understand all the interactions among our genes. But maybe in future a certain genetic trait would be found among those who chose to not have children?
Great post and comments..not easy to add new perspective..:)
Hey Lurker – Good perspective
“When I could make the choice to reproduce or not, then I chose to NOT! ”
Yes. And not only did you make the decision to be childfree, you took action that backed it up – so no question of “accidents”. I don’t really know about genes and to be honest don’t really care. What matters is you don’t want kids and you are childfree. If for some reason you suddenly started wanting one or more… well that’s a different story. I’d say if that happened you’d become “childless” (as in wanting a child) rather than “childfree…(not)
Such an interesting discussion this one.
” If in 30 years and by choice I am still without children, then I would certainly consider myself as CF.”
I don’t agree with this idea that you have to “prove” you are childfree by staying that way for a certain amount of years. Does this mean you were not childfree before, but after ‘earning your stripes’ you are, after some random amount of time?
I think you are or you aren’t and I don’t really feel that your actions change that. Let’s say you have a kid for any reason OTHER than wanting one, then at heart you are still childfree. Or, take my ex for example, who was oopsed by a woman (who he only dated for three weeks!) and now has a son, yet never wanted kids. Is he not childfree because he has a son?
I think it’s the way you feel in your heart and the convictions in your mind; you may have children but you might spend every waking moment wishing you didn’t – to me, that is what being childfree means – it means the DESIRE to be without children, regardless of where life has taken you, or how long you’ve held that desire.
It’s not like one doesn’t consider oneself a doctor (for example) until 30 years of practise, to ‘make sure’ that one really is a doctor!
@serrin
“…. Or, take my ex for example, who was oopsed by a woman (who he only dated for three weeks!) and now has a son, yet never wanted kids. Is he not childfree because he has a son?
Hmmm…I wouldn’t call him childfree.
He has a son. He’s fathered a child. He’s a parent. He’s someone’s Dad… It doesn’t really matter how he came to be a parent, there’s no changing the fact that he is… and always will be. I don’t see how he can be childfree and a parent…
Great discussion folks…great contributions, sharing and thoughts!
Interestingly, I personally know three men, all of whom had a condom break but were seeing a woman who said she was on the pill (but wasn’t), so they didn’t worry about it. Suddenly, girlfriend (or in two cases, EX girlfriend) is pregnant or turns up at their door with their child.
So what do we call someone who has a kid (perhaps without their knowledge or consent, as is the cases above) but never wanted them, and never wants another?
Are they “reluctantly childed”?
I think it also depends how literally you take it. I personally take it as a state of mind, rather than a state of being. By my definition, you can be a childfree parent – but of course by the literal definition you cannot…
Hey, Serrin…reluctantly or otherwise, they are parents. If they never really wanted kids on purpose or otherwise – ever – the fact is they could have got snipped. I think oopsing is a low thing to do, but well, having sex has a high propensity to produce kids, and only a snip (on the guys side) is likely to be 100% effective – if you can say anything is 100% effective. They may believe they are childfree, but to me they are parents or, if they aren’t parenting, they are fathers as they’ve produced offspring.
I think it’s entirely possible to be a reluctant parent. Ialso think that while childfree is a state of mind it also has actions to back it up, as Tom says.
When I was between 12 and 22 (to make things easier…) my folks kept changing my mind for me! In my mid teens I was scolded for even thinking about boys: ‘Don’t let us find out you’re having sex!’. Then I hit my twenties and it was: ‘So when are you going to make us grandparents/great-grandparents?’ and ‘You’re still so slim….’
Now I can think for myself, I am definitely not changing my mind. No children, ever.
I’ve always held that the definition of “childfree” was as follows:
- You have never had a child, whether biologically or legally (e.g., adoption or step-parenting).
- You do not ever want a child, whether biologically or legally.
- You take, and are willing to take, all necessary steps to avoid having a child, including abortion.
It’s that last point that tends to raise the most controversy when I bring it up; in my opinion, someone unwilling to have an abortion is merely childless, not childfree, since a single accident will otherwise lead inexorably to becoming a parent. Claiming a status without the willingness to back it up is merely wishful thinking.
(I’m 30, childfree, and snipped, BTW; the only “children” my wife and I have are of the feline variety.) :p
Interesting. So, if you have a child (say you didn’t find out about the pregnancy until it was too late to abort – which does happen) and then put it up for adoption, are you still childfree? (I would say yes)
Actually I’d disagree. It’s not too different from the guy who was oopsed. If one’s has had a child they’re not childfree. Yes, accidents happen but they’ve still given birth and produced a child. I recall when I first came across the term this never having given birth was central.
Ditto what Britgirl said — if your genetic material is out there, you’re not childfree, no matter how much you may wish otherwise. I’ve also found that people (especially women) in that exact scenario — had a kid, realized it wasn’t for them, gave it up — are still irrevocably *changed* by having had a child, and end up either eventually seeking custody or looking to have another child down the road. Having direct experience with this in an ex who originally swore her past biological child “wasn’t an issue”, it isn’t pretty; if I ever found myself single again — Ceiling Cat forbid, as I love my wife dearly — I wouldn’t go *near* someone who wasn’t adamantly childfree by my definition.
@ Tom… I’ve always thought of it like that too…I remember when I first learned about the term I recall thinking it was very definite for which I was pleased.
See, I don’t agree with that. While I am pro-choice, pro-CHOICE, I would not have an abortion. But, I’d give up the kid.
Because I think abortion is the killing of a human life, *I* couldn’t do it, and it is my CHOICE to bring it to term and then give it up for adoption to remain childfree.
To consider this view puts the onus on women. Men can’t force a woman to have an abortion. So if he gets someone pregnant (either by pure accident or she oopsed him) he can never be considered childfree, *even if it was not his fault.* (Which is why men should have vasectomies or there should be an oral contraceptive for them like there is for women.)
Remember choice? Remember being PRO-choice? Just because I’m pro-choice doesn’t mean I’m automatically going to have an abortion, there’s no CHOICE in that. Being pro-choice means I get to decide whether to have an abortion or bring a baby to term and give it up.
I’d still consider myself childfree. Infact, I’d consider a woman to be more childfree by doing that than simply having an abortion. Why? Because even after having gone through a pregnancy and all that it entails she STILL gave up the kid because she didn’t want them.
What we’re talking about here are medical terms.
nulligravida – a woman who has never been pregnant. or
nulliparous – never having given birth to a child. (which means, they could have been pregnant but not given birth – i.e. abortion or miscarriage.)
Being childfree is a state of mind. Not a medical condition.
PS: The point is moot for me because I am sterilized. But it still applies to me in the sense that, say I’m raped and I still got pregnant (tubal ligations do have some failure rate.)
Because I would not abort, yet gave the child up for adoption because I did not want children, I am no longer childfree? I call B.S. on that.
I agree with Tom. If you have given birth to or fathered a child, you have a child, so no matter how you choose to think about it, there is a living person with your DNA, which, unless you have given it over for adoption, or it has been taken from you by the state, you are obligated to care for it in some manner. I really don’t see how that’s even a question. Continuing to think you are childfree when you have a child in your home is a concept so awful, I can’t even go there. Would you want to be that child? If the idea of being childfree is something that defines you as a human being then I believe you should make every effort to ensure you don’t become a parent. If you are male and don’t trust the woman you are with to be straight about her birth control then I would suggest you don’t sleep with her, double up on the condoms and spermicide or get snipped.
Laws vary from state to state in the U.S. but paternity tests were created to ensure that the child has the same access to care/financial support as a child born within a marriage. Whether you like it or not, as John Edwards recently discovered, not WANTING to share in parenting responsibilities financial or otherwise, is irrelevant to the courts–as many a deadbeat dad has discovered who has been tracked down and had his wages attached for not paying child support. If continuing to think you are childfree when you are paying child support provides you a measure of comfort, I guess that’s great, but I would think it’s a recipe for bitterness, all around.
I don’t think stepparents are by definition not CF. If they want nothing to do with the children and don’t finance, raise or live with them, then they are perfectly well CF. as for biology, it seems to me that a man can be CF with a biological offspring. If he did not want children and took reasonable precautions, like condoms or belief that his long term partner was honestly on birth control, then was oopsed, I think the man can be CF. If he broke off the relationship when he realized he was tricked and has had nothing to do with the child except legally mandated minimum payments, he is perfectly CF. For women, giving birth automatically excludes CF status, unless the child was given up for adoption. If she didn’t abort it or get rid of it, then she wanted it, and so is not CF.
If you’re a stepparent that has become a legal parent of a child, you’re not childfree. If you act as a parent towards stepchildren, you’re not childfree. I’m willing to accept someone as childfree who is in a relationship with someone who has children, but only where the CF person either 1) has absolutely no contact or dealings whatsoever with those children, or 2) has a non-”parental” relationship with adult children of the partner. (I’d *strongly* question the sanity of a CF individual who maintains a relationship with someone who is actively raising minor children, though, even if there is no contact with them.)
As for giving birth (or fathering a biological child), that irrevocably removes someone’s CF status in my eyes, regardless of subsequent adoption.
I wouldn’t date a “CF” guy who had a kid running around. For a couple of reasons – one, I’d be wary of the morals of someone who would have a child, whether accidentally or not, and then just pretend it had never happened. He wouldn’t be the sort of person I’d trust to stick around if the going got rough. Two, because the very fact that you have a child out there, means that said child could turn up on your doorstep any where, any time, and then you’d be obligated to deal with it. I can live without that drama. So no – if you’re a parent, you’re a parent. I’ve met a ton of guys who wish they weren’t parents, and like to pretend they’re not – but it doesn’t wash with me.
I don’t think it’s as black and white as that. Imagine you’re a young guy, you’re seeing a woman who insists she is on birth control, but it’s only been a few weeks and you don’t know her that well so you use condoms anyway. A condom breaks, you can’t exactly hold her down and force the morning after pill down her throat in case she is lying… so you just hope it’s ok. A few weeks later you figure out she is a nutcase, you break up, and a couple of months after that you go travelling. A year later, you find out you have a son.
This is exactly what happened to my ex. He isn’t immoral and he hasn’t pretended it never happened – he got a paternity test and now pays child support. I don’t personally feel that he is obliged to play a large part in the life of a child who his girlfriend of only a few weeks decided not to abort, AFTER they had broken up and in spite of his travel plans, AND let’s not forget she didn’t even tell him she was pregnant.
He has struggled with trying to decide how involved he should be in the kid’s life for four years. It has caused him a lot of pain and confusion.
Situations are very rarely black and white enough to make a moral judgement on someone’s behaviour.
Definitely agree about the risk of the kid turning up on dad’s doorstep though! Especially if it’s a teenager…yuck.
I wouldn’t call your ex *immoral* — if anything, he seems to have explicitly tried to do the “right thing” in that case — but he’s simply not childfree. It doesn’t make him a bad person; it just makes him a (biological) parent.
It would never cross my mind that your ex was immoral. As Tom says, he’s actually tried to do the right thing. But he isn’t childfree either, much as he’d like to be because he has a child.
In conclusion: whether he is childfree or not, thank god he is my ex! haha
I’ve always found the issue of dating guys with kids very difficult.
Either the guy puts the kid first (which automatically puts you in second place, if even that) or he doesn’t, which would make me rather suspicious of him. Because if your child comes into the world, then I think you do have some kind of obligation. It didn’t ask to be here and someone has to make sure it is looked after.
I know it makes it seem like men can’t win, and in a way they can’t in such a situation. After a few interesting experiences, I decided to only date men who don’t have any children. They aren’t so easy to find once you start looking in the 30-45 age group, so I’m not getting it all my own way either. ;_)
On the broken condom pregnancies – they cannot be happening at the frequency people report. Most of the time, they had sex and thought if they did it quickly with fingers cross and averted their eyes, it didn’t really count. Then for Public Relations’ sake, they say the condom broke. Most of the time, if a woman or man wants sex late at night or early in the morning, they miss using a condom and blame it on breakage. The guy can easily sometimes “say” he put one on and the woman may not know he did not. Or they can both believe that sex is like a sandwich punch card where you get the eighth time for free.
The American comedian Bill Maher does a great routine in his “The Decider” show where he points out (he’s in his fifties) that he has alway had sex (a lot of sex) with condoms and never had one break ever, ever, ever, which either makes him the luckiest f-cker in the world or condoms are the most reliable invention ever. He mocks these men who are in sports or politics who cheat on their wives and knock up a woman by saying…haven’t any of these men learned you have to use a condom? Women lie. They do. And I’m a woman. And a feminist saying that. They stop using birth control or half-ass use it allowing “god” to decide, as if their vagueness and forgetfulness are just overlooked by their judging god as winsome cuteness. Saying – “well, it just sorta happenin.” There’s also the thing called abortion. And although I believe a woman has the right to chose whether her body is pregnant or not legally, but if the man did not use a condom, he ethically has no say in the equation at all. He’ll always get the retort – “well, if he really didn’t want kids, he should’a done something about it..”
A child’s life deserves to have two parents that say they want to become parents. That is honoring the value of life. Forcing parenthood through an “opps” pregnancy is immoral.
Sure, there are heaps of people out there who lie about condoms breaking, but nobody can deny that it does happen. Not EVERYONE who has a condom break or believes the word of someone they love is irresponsible. It’s happened to me more than once – though I’m also on the pill.
Maybe Bill Maher is putting the condom on an average sized apparatus. :p One thing that is sorely lacking in sex education is that there are different sizes on condoms available, and that the wrong size greatly increases the risk of breakage or the condom falling off.
Which brings me to another point – WHEN are people going to wise up and start allowing the education system to teach teenagers how to use birth control?!
“Which brings me to another point – WHEN are people going to wise up and start allowing the education system to teach teenagers how to use birth control?!”
Shaking my head at this one. But I think they do in Europe/UK. Must be just in the US? No wonder so many are clueless about birth control, they’ve never been taught. The system is failing them, but it’s the same system that bleats on about teenage pregnancies…
There was a PSA that ran for a while in the New York metro area. It featured a women who said, “So your boyfriend tells you he’s too big for a condom.” She then takes a condom and puts her entire arm in it all the way up to her elbow. Then she says, “Really? Is he bigger than this?” The condom didn’t tear or break. No matter how well endowed someone happens to be, it’s the rare male who has a penis the size of an adult human arm, no matter what he tells himself.
I can wear a size 6 tee shirt, but it doesn’t feel so great!
A penis doesn’t have fingers and elbows and bones to stretch the condom into a comfortable fit. The act of rolling a condom that is too small in girth onto the head of a penis can cause discomfort to the guy and might involve the use of fingernails to stretch it over, which increases the risk of it breaking. Similarly, a condom that is too big for a smaller penis is likely to roll off during the repetitive motions involved.
The other issue is comfort – condoms might stretch to a huge amount, but how comfortable is the penis inside it?
No man is too large for a condom, because they come in larger sizes, but many men will find that a larger sized condom is better for them, for various reasons. This is why they make them in different sizes. This is why the education of such things is so important – so that men know what is available and women can respond to their “I’m too big” comment with “oh here’s an extra large one then”.
“This is why the education of such things is so important – so that men know what is available and women can respond to their “I’m too big” comment with “oh here’s an extra large one then”.
Yes…and it wouldn’t hurt to have variety of sizes on hand. Anything to make sure an unwanted baby isn’t going to be a result of having sex. Without those or other precautions, they both are saying that they are fully aware of the risk of having a child.
I guess I just don’t have much sympathy over condom discomfort/sizing issues
If you consider yourself mature enough to engage in sexual relations, than you best be prepared to manage the issues around birth control, whatever they may be. If you are a newbie, and you can read, you can figure out how to use a condom, there are detailed directions right on the box/wrapper. A few minutes of possible embarrassment versus a lifetime of childcare…. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
The methods of birth control women have had to choose from over the years (IUD, Pill, Cap, Morning After Pill, Abortion) are less than satisfactory for a number of reasons– inconvenience, cost, physical and psychological side effects, uterine scarring and damage and risk of death) yet women have endured rather than give birth to a child they aren’t prepared to care for. I’d be thrilled to waltz into a drugstore and buy birth control without a prescription that would take two minutes to figure out, rather than make a doctor’s appointment, try different methods and deal with mood swings, nausea, discomfort, and worry about risk of stroke, cancer or heart attack.
“On the broken condom pregnancies – they cannot be happening at the frequency people report.”
I read this and I have to say, I laughed out loud and got some strange looks. I just got this picture of condom breaking bursting… ahem. But seriously, even though I know condoms do break, I too wondered a bit at reported frequency of breakage. Not to doubt you, serrin… I just think people (usually the woman) can so easily say “it broke and no one can really disprove it.
But I bet the condom manufacturers would have something to say… anyway, if there’s been a condom accident, isn’t there the morning after pill? I know there is in the UK – I believe it’s called plan B in the US, not sure. Of course the woman has to take the pill. the man needs to get double strength condoms. Or better still get than snip.
Condom breakages are usually due to incorrect use, rather than any defects in the condoms themselves. Lack of lubricant, oral sex prior to intercourse, fingernails, wrong size – all these are contributing factors and while some of us take the time to educate ourselves, I imagine that for a shy or introverted person such education would be very hard to obtain without a lot of embarrassment.
As for the morning after pill – I’ve taken it twice. The first time I had to get a prescription and take TWENTY pills all together, twice a day! The second time was many years later and now it’s just a trip to the pharmacy and a single pill. Certainly there is no excuse these days, unless you live in the middle of the desert somewhere.
And if you don’t run into the pharmacists who refuse to dispense it because of their personal opinion on the morality of it.
But yes, it’s infinitely easier.
Are you in the US? That’s very rare in Australia. In fact, I’d be absolutely astounded if I came across a pharmacist who’s personal beliefs meant they didn’t sell it. I imagine their customer base would dramatically reduce very quickly. We seem to keep our religion, politics and work separate to a much greater extent than most other countries…
@Sally – and you forgot the ones that don’t use a condom because it “interferes” with the enjoyment. I have heard both men and women say this. Alternative birth control used? None. So when in later years the carelessness shows up as the pitter patter of tiny feet, I find it odd that down the road any man would think for a moment he’s childfree.
Excellent point – A child deserves two parents that want it – and that want to be parents 150%.
I’m surprised no one has mentioned STDs. They are definitely out there and a major reason to use condoms. Maybe your partner has told you about their past experiences but you never know about the past experiences of their previous lovers, or their previous lovers and so on back. To me condoms aren’t just to stop pregnancy but to also maintain health. But of course if people aren’t all that concerned about pregnancy they aren’t giving much thought to STDs…
I think that depends on age and your nationality – ie the education system you went through.
I’m in my mid twenties in Australia, and I wouldn’t mention stds because I feel that it goes without saying. You meet someone new, you use condoms for three months at least, then if you are both monogamous (and you trust them when they say they are), you both get tests, show each other the results and then stop using condoms. I don’t know anyone who doesn’t take that for granted. The conversation normally goes “oh we will use these for 3 months then get tested, yeah?” and the response “yeah of course”.
However, exes I’ve dated from some other countries were shocked and offended when I told them that’s how it would be. Also older people who were educated differently (or not at all) tend to be a lot less worried about stds, while younger people in their early 20s tend to be convinced that they have AIDS if they have unprotected sex even once!
The saddest thing is that I have a number of friends who have contracted herpes, and ALL from their long term boyfriends (only one of whom actually knew he had it though). I’ve been single until recently for almost a decade and have never had an std, and I think it’s because single people tend to use condoms while couples don’t. Also, they don’t test for herpes because it’s considered by doctors to be such a minor disease not worth worrying about (and in most cases it is).
Yes, there is no more of a pro-life thing to say to a kid than “you were wanted, you were planned and I decided to be your parent.” Not “we had you so my girlfriend would stop crying at the sight of toys and pressuring me.”
I was moved to write in here because of the dude in trouble with his baby-craving love interest. I’m totally serious about him listening to me for a moment here.
I really hold out that the guy in trouble could change his mind, but be clear on this, currently you are getting in a hostage situation, not a love situation where you would not be pressured to be a parent if you did not want to. It’s not loving to you. It’s not loving to the child. It’s kind of treating the child like a plant or nice piece of furniture that completes a set, if she has no compunction about what he feels about becoming a parent. I’m all for pro-choice, but tricking into pregnancy is so wrong or “opps-ing” into it.
First and foremost, it’s not loving to the child. But second, don’t believe your life won’t change SIGNIFICANTLY. Some women try to argue they’ll raise it and do all the work. Frankly, and here is an ugly, ugly, ugly secret., sometimes women see their friends having kids and staying at home, and they go back to fantasyland at the exact same time their workaday jobs have lost their novelity. They see a kid as giving meaning to their lives, and frankly, as a mother, they are authority, and as a stay at home mother, they avoid that regular, humiliating job review, the need to answer to a boss, and a career that has stalled. I have seen some friends go all conservative church and give up their careers because they want to be stay at home in what they imagine is a loving cocoon doing meaningful things, being their own boss. They need the conservative church and the whole “mommy” religion in order that no one questions their choices.
Being a parent, especially with another parent, means a different experience. First, putting the child first means BOTH parents want to be a parent. Second, being a parent means something different than taking care of little cousins or who ever left toys at your house. I mean, when you babysit, you’re the wonderful babysitter. You don’t have to co-parent. You’re the authority, and I doubt she had to check your opinion on parenting. (and by the way, if she is manipulating you about kids, in her mind, it’s her realm and YOU won’t have a vote on the day-to-day parenting either, not really, and she can always throw it in your face that you never were that into having them in the first place!) For that babysitting time, you’re wonderful. A novelity. And no one is sick and you aren’t worried about budget or really lack of sleep and – again – coparenting with YOU at all.
I SERIOUSLY suggest counseling by a recommended childfree friendly person. Isn’t a potential kid worth it? Aren’t you worth it? If you are not wanting a kid, possibly you could change your mind, but it seems like you definitely were clear about it and don’t want one now. You have to be absolutely, absolutely, absolutely clear that you want to be a parent and it must be outside the influence of threats. Is another life worth the value of having BOTH parents absolutely wanting it? Is a life worth more than your relationship if it comes to that – because you’ll be bringing in another person who didn’t get a vote.
As hard as it is to admit, your relationship is not “perfect” except for this one thing, if indeed, she is, basically, holding you hostage to walking on eggshells because she believes a forced parent suits her needs and the needs of another human being. I’d rather hear that she holds you hostage to a potential hissy fit over her need for really good pasta or even jewels than over another human being who doesn’t get a vote. Because to me, that is more serious when you involve another life in your desires. And in a world that really values life, it would be.
Guys, there is no area for general non-topic related comments, so while this is off-topic I’m posting here anyway.
I have just had a long conversation with my parents about not having kids (my dad hasn’t been kept in the loop – he doesn’t like to talk about “feelings” and mum has probably not told him because she is waiting for me to change my mind).
Anyway, while having the conversation and being bingoed left right and centre, I thought of everyone on this blog and the little community we have going here, and it made me feel a little less alone and a little bit stronger – actually a lot stronger – in my own self defense. I found myself quoting many of you and thinking of how grateful I am to I know that you’re all on my side, and I just wanted to come here and say a big thank you – to Britgirl and everyone else who drops in here and makes this blog what it is. It really helped me tonight, and I’m really glad you’re all here.
Thanks
(Incidentally my mum is currently washing the dishes after having cooked me and dad dinner… hmmm what was that about kids being so rewarding?! Haha)
I’d just like to echo what serrin said above. It’s been a few weeks since I broke up with my ex-girlfriend over this whole issue and whilst it’s certainly not been easy, this blog and the comments of the people here really have helped me to remain strong and realise that I’m not alone. I’ve also decided to get vasectomised, maybe then I’ll start being taken seriously. The emails between my ex and I have been going backwards and forwards daily. After weeks of hassle I think I’ve got the message across and she accepts that our relationship is over.
I asked her so many times to give me a logical reason for having children, not an emotional one or one based on some hormonal parenting ‘instinct’. She replied that it’s only illogical if you don’t want them. I disagreed, I asked her to explain the logical reasons FOR wanting kids… She couldn’t, she can’t. Nobody can, when looked at logically it’s a crappy, life limiting idea – There’s no need for me to list here why from a logical standpoint it’s a crappy idea, I’d merely be preaching to the converted but it amazes me that so many people make this momentus decision without actually considering the impact it’ll have on their own lives. She won’t struggle to find a bloke who wants them because he hasn’t thought about it fully or he has some strange concept of machismo, that somehow his precious seed is worth more than anyone else’s…
Obviously, none of this affects the fact that I’m single now and that I miss my ex immensely, before the ‘baby-rabies’ kicked in we were the happiest couple imaginable. I work nights in an all male environment, I live in quite a backward part of the UK, most women here want kids, those who don’t move to the big cities where they can really advance their careers. Added to all that, I don’t really like the pubbing/clubbing scene so I can’t imagine my single status will change for some time, possibly never if I get a vasectomy and the women I do meet realise that I’m not an indecisive, easily manipulated moron who doesn’t know his own mind and that they REALLY can’t change me…
Thanks all for being here and understanding how I feel, many of my male friends don’t want kids but those who’re in relationships just kinda accept that they will one day because as they often say, “well, it’s just what you do, isn’t it?”. Those, like me, who can’t just accept it are single and have been for years. Good job I have plenty of hobbies, like my own company and have found this blog full of intelligent, witty people!
“well, it’s just what you do, isn’t it?”
I think it’s likely that you like and honor kids more than someone that would say that.
You might have to drive into a bigger town. Not all women want kids.
And in defense of illogical reasoning…when a person wants a child, it’s often illogical. I can’t understand it, but some people believe it’s inside them. When that desire comes from some indescribable urge to love another and to parent, I can get that. I don’t have that. I like kids, but I know it’s a hell of a lot different to enjoy the company of kids briefly than to parent and co-parent. A lot of people leave out the co-parenting part in their fantasies. To them, parenting will be like being a beloved queen in a peaceable kingdom with subjects littler and more adorable than you. Start montage.
But being intelligent beings, there’s that responsibliity part. It’s not a loving thing to have a child that you cannot care for financially, emotionally, and all other ways. It’s also not a responsible, loving thing to trick another or to pressure another to become a parent. It’s not a responsible, loving thing to give a child a job even before it’s born to give your life meaning and to sort out all your lack of meaning and importance or to replace an unfullfilling career because you hate your job. Or you hate holidays and gatherings without the requisite kid photos to show to show you are worthy. “It’s just what people do.” It’s not a loving thing to have kids as your retirement plan either. Explain that to the infant as you pop it out, “see, you’re here because I need you to support me.” A sugar baby for later. A baby with a job already.
It doesn’t matter so much that someone can’t give you a logical reason to be a parent. Perhaps truly, they want to parent and would be a great parent and should parent.. But it doesn’t matter whether it’s logical or not for your sake. It’s incredibly sad to break up, but it’s horrible to lay on a kid’s life that you didn’t really, really want it. You just didn’t want to break up. Well, if you had a child, you could still break up. And then the kid is there in it.
What matter to your child is that YOU wanted to be a parent. And you can have any logical or illogical reason for not wanting to have a child. But the loving thing to do is not to have one if YOU don’t want one, even if your partner produces a legal brief argument as to why it is logical to do so. True, once you get on that pregnancy train, if you’re a guy, you’re in it. even if it is only for child support. But once again, if a man or woman sort of “chicken-shit” vagues their way to an “opps” pregnancy, that is the opposite of pro-life. That doesn’t honor the value of life and the importance and preciousness of a child that deserves parents who wanted to be parents.
To get back on topic, I think childfree means “I do not want to have children and I have no interest in raising any, therefore I take all reasonable precautions to not procreate and do not pursue parent-child relationships with the children of others.” This doesn’t have to be completely extreme, with a reaction to children like a vampire to light. As a woman you of course have control over whether you give birth or not, so its pretty clear cut. But generally it seems to me that a parent is someone who is an active participant in raising a child. So stepparents can qualify, or not. Obviously if you marry someone who has children living with them, like it or not you are not able to live a CF lifestyle. But being married to someone who’s had one of many incidences of intercourse end with fertilization really doesn’t affect you as such. If you are not stuck with the children and are not financing them, you are for all intents and purposes, childfree because you can live a childfree life. And that’s what its really about – your lifestyle as a CF person. Think of all the bingos people throw your way – you are selfsh, immature, lazy, unnatural. Imagine you respond with “Oh, no you are totally mistaken. I actually have 3 biological children, I just don’t want to be bothered with the awful quality of life, so they live with my aunt in Florida.” Its not like you’d receive a smile of understanding and sudden fraternity here. So its not so much that people need you to physically give birth or to donate an egg, what they hate is the CF lifestyle, because they envy it. They really don’t care if you produce a child, they want to see you covered in spit up, schlepping a screeching infant in a baby bjorn with a 7-year-old dressed as a hooker in tow. Therefore, what really defines you as childfree is whether you live the childfree life, not whether the sperm met the egg some time in your life.
Somewhat off topic, I think people who put their children as the most important thing are pathetic, but those who decide to make an unwanted accident the pinnacle of their existence are just retards. As are the idiot women who expect that from their oopsed partners.
My definition of CF=You do not have parent responsibility and you never reproduced. I think in any other case you are either wanting children, irresponsible, immature, selfish, insane, reckless or maybe just unfortunate (By the way…all which are normal human qualities..but NOT equal to CF..)..:)
I am a new reader and have been glued to this blog because it is what is happening to me at the moment and I would really appreciate some comments as it is really scaring me. I am not sure how how old everyone is but I have been happily child free for my entire adult life, had no desire to reproduce at all and was perfectly content to be free to live my life as I chose. I am now 41 and have found to my horror that a couple of years ago a small maturnal urge began to creep up on me. I met my current partner around that time and he is fantastic. He is also 50, has two grown up boys, a vasectomy and no intention of producing any more (quite reasonably). i have found that I have at times metamorphosized into Bob’s wife and have, to my shame, pulled the old, ‘if you loved me’ routine. I have even left him, albeit briefly.
I am so confused – most of the time I am perfectly rational and while I can appreciate why people want children (I am also a social worker so come into contact with kids daily) and have never been a child hater I still know that I like my free life, but when the ‘thing’ grabs me it makes me irrational and feel the ‘need’ for a child. I am now at serious risk of losing my partner – and who can blame him – but I cannot fathom where this has come from and whether it is simply pressure from society (my parents have no grandchildren etc; all my friends have or intend to have children and cannot accept any other view); fear of regret as biologically time is running out or a grass is greener kind of thing. Has anyone here ever felt this – you all sound as though you have never been troubled by this at all. I want to stay with my partner but my friends and family all think I will be making a mistake if I dont try to have a baby now.
I first came looking for sites like this one because I am terrified that some sudden maternal instinct will hit me when I hit a certain age.
I have read numerous comments on the web by childfree women who DID come across what you are dealing with – some ignored the maternal urge and found that it went away after 6-12 months. None of them regret that they did not have a child and all have expressed some horror at the thought that if they HAD decided to have a child based on this “instinct” they would now be stuck with a child they had no remaining desire for.
Nobody can give you advice, but if I were in your situation I would wait another year and see whether this desperate urge is still there. It may well be temporary and just a hormonal thing.
I would think very carefully before putting aside something that I have felt and believed in for 40 years, for something that has reared its head in the last couple of years…
Also, it is not for your friends and family to decide what yYOU will regret. This is your decision. They should be acting as sounding boards, not advice givers. The advice and the decision needs to come from within you, and hearing yourself say certain things out loud as you talk to people is a good way to bring it out of your subconscious.
Hi Mandy,
it sounds like you have been living with this urge for a while now. You’re at a similar age to me and I know that the clock is ticking if you truly want children.
Perhaps it would be a good idea to speak to a counsellor (but a truly neutral one, who won’t try to influence you one way or the other) to clarify your thinking. What exactly would a child bring you that you don’t have? Can you seperate your own desires from those of friends, family and society? What would you have to give up or change in order to satisfy the desire for a child?
I think at our age we also have to take into account that it just might not be realistic. Although I doubt a strong desire to reproduce will grab me now, it is possible that I will start to feel that way. I have made a personal decision that because of the risk of birth defects I won’t have a child after 40, no matter what my feelings may be at that point.
Although I don’t know your whole situation, it seems a shame to end a good relationship for the sake of a maybe.
Ya, you are human and at 41 you are realizing life as a middle aged woman with no family is frightening. Did you think you’d be young forever?
I just moved to a European country hit hard by the recession. due to generous maternity leave, people afraid of redundancy have decided to get pregnant because it guarantees a salary for 18 months, due to maternity leave laws, so there are TONS of pregnant women everywhere. I felt a bit like a leper, because all anyone can talk about is babies. But that desire to fit in is not the same as actually wanting to raise a child, you know?
I think a lot depends on who you chose to be with. I don’t really like or enjoy children, but if I was with a childminded partner, that coupled with society, I would have had 2 kids by now and not even given it a thought. Because my partner really does not want kids, I actually thought, do I? and the and the answer was no. But had he not NOT wanted kids, I may have never even acknowledged the choice. Scary!!!
For me…I’d leave. It would hurt like hell, but I’d leave.
Why? Because it’s clear that we’re not going to stay compatible for long, and all that’s going to follow would be arguments and fights…so I’d rather skip to the breakup. For me, the subject is not open to negotiation or compromise. Either they have me as I am – childfree and never having children, ever – or they find someone they are compatible with and let me be.
People do change over time, and that’s why I personally don’t ever plan to be married either – it just drags out the process of leaving and makes it so much more painful. It’s kind of like removing a bandaid – if you do it quickly, it hurts less. But if it has to be done, it has to be done.
It is an occasional worry of mine, but I like to think that if someone really did love me that much, they would be alright with my decision and it wouldn’t cause enough trouble to end in a breakup. Or at least, they wouldn’t press the issue. (And if they decide to leave, well, that’s fine too. You can’t force someone to stay with you if they want to leave, so why fight it? There’s 7.03 billion humans out there, so the odds are that there’s someone else that it will work out with.)