ISome people just can’t leave it alone. They spend pages (and maybe even days, weeks and years) banging their heads on brick walls wondering how the childfree can do it. Refuse to have children, that is.
Take Having or not having children (gotta love Google Alerts for delivering all sorts of articles) even from such as Catholic Insight.
In this article Having or not having children from said Catholic “Insight”, the author lays into the childfree. He calls them people having a
Disturbed conscience
He says…
“Lately, however, women who relish the thought that, through choice, they are “buoyantly childfree” are upset by the fact that other women denounce them as “bitter, selfish, unnatural, evil.” A society that no longer believes in God and his revelation, or in natural law, has chosen to live by a morality derived from a consensus of public opinion. A person who knowingly does something she realizes in her heart of hearts is seriously wrong is inevitably plagued by conscience. In an effort to avoid this plague, that person seeks relief by looking for and expecting moral approval from society and the law of the land. However, such sources are incapable of providing such assurance and so the anxiety remains for life. It must be particularly galling for someone to realize that a growing minority regard her as a “social misfit” or as “selfish.”
Let’s paraphrase, childfree women (note it’s just the wimmins who get the blame) should jolly well expect to be called “bitter, selfish and um… unnatural and evil..” by other women because… because we’ve chosen not to procreate. We’ve decided that public opinion and consensus aren’t the arbiters of our lives and have decided to make our own choices.
But according to John B Shea MD FRCP(C), the childfree woman realizes in her heart of hearts that something is seriously wrong and is… plagued by conscience. To avoid this “plague of the conscience, the childfree woman looks for the moral approval of society, and, not getting it “remains anxious for life.”
Contraception is the big evil as
“The Church teaching clearly does not allow spouses to avoid having children simply because they don’t want them. “Reproductive freedom” is contrary to the teaching of the Church.”
Clearly the childfree woman isn’t carrying her cross as she should be. But at least she’s take responsibility for her life and, in doing so, the lives of others.
Common respect would dictate that no one deserves to be called bitter, selfish, unnatural or evil, least of all if they’ve decided not to have children. Instead of siding with the name callers wouldn’t it be more fitting to show the love the church is always preaching? “Love one another as I have loved you” and “love your neighbour as yourself” don’t seem to figure here… but then I think the writer is so busy valuing lives that actually don’t exist that he elevates them above those that do. Strange.
The fact that women have decided not to have children does not make them worthy of scorn… and it’s rather hypocritical of the church to then purport to preach a message of love if it believes they are. It’s also quite arrogant of the writer to think he knows if, and why childfree women are “upset” “disturbed” or “anxious”.
If he can’t or won’t understand women as worthy people as separate from their reproduction then perhaps he should stick to what he does know. And leave the childfree can do without his or the church’s “concern.”
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Yet another reason to be atheist.
I have to admit, the more the Catholic church speaks out against something I believe in, the more secure I become in my belief. Frankly, for the Catholic Church to speak out against me for a choice I have made, simply reaffirms that I am a kind, logical, worthy human being.
The Catholic Church, to me, is one of the most evil organisations on Earth. It rapes, muders, lies, steals, and has done so for centuries. You only have to walk into one of Europe’s many god-awful churches slathered in gold and paintings and jewels, built during times of great poverty within the community (when the money for gold could have been money for bread), to see exactly how hypocritical, disgusting, immoral, evil and just plain creepy that religion is.
Now, if Buddhism spoke out against being childfree, I would seriously consider whether my actions might be incorrect, but it won’t, because Buddhism is what true religion is about – loving kindness and respect for all beings.
Rest assured that while the Catholic Church in its upper echelons, or perhaps just this organ of it believe that all of us wimmins are evil, not all of the practicing Catholics do.
I am very grateful to my parents, extended family, and their friends, all of whom are staunch Roman Catholics, and entirely believe that I’ve made the right choice by being Childfree. Some of them even say they wouldn’t wish children on me, which I found a surprising thing for a Catholic to say at first, but then realised that they can be as Catholic as they like but still have to be realistic about how their choices affect their real life, faithful or not.
Now if only I could get the bloody Anglicans and born-agains off my back about it. I’ve had worse experiences with them than with Catholics, leading me to believe that they’re all just as bad as one another.
Kaz Jones: Exactly!
What a bunch of rubbish.
A complete waste of space. Not wanting or having children is “doing something seriously wrong?” To whom, exactly? What about denouncing poor people who already have litters for aborting or even using contraception to try to somehow stave off starvation, poverty and desease?
By this logic, anyone who resents being called nasty names and marginalized is wrong and disturbed. So that’s like, everyone?
How does Mr. Shea feel about the women who breed repeatedly to get their names further up council housing lists and to rake in thousands of pounds of benefits: or perhaps the Karen Matthews types who try using their children to gain attention and/or quick financial ‘reward’? Or women like Baby Peter’s mother…
If we are morally deficient in his eyes, what does he make of them? I’d love to read his views…
It’s indeed strange that he has no reprimands for them. But not surprising, since they’ve probably already reached sainthood by having kids in the first place. And he would probably say even more housing should be made available to them… since they are, after all carrying out their “primary function…” having loads of kids.
I’d put my anxiety level up against a parent’s any day.
I wonder why the most holy people in the Catholic Faith don’t have children if it is so selfish and evil? Priests, nuns, and monks all choose not to procreate.
Not to mention that Jesus was also childfree…
What I’d also like him to explain to me, since I assume he believes in creationism is, if Adam and Eve were the first people on Earth, and Cain killed Abel, how Cain managed to reproduce if there was no other woman than his mother. If he didn’t, and A&E had more kids, the siblings surely must resort to incest to reproduce. I’ve never bothered to read the bible, so maybe it’s explained.
Another day, another eye roll.
I went to Catholic school as a child and still remember the horror of finding out many years later that a classmate of mine was repeatedly raped (along with all other 8 siblings, boys and girls alike) by her father, disclosed the abuse to a teacher in grade 6, only to be ignored by the entire institution (school and church) because the church’s position was that families should stay together. Sorry, you don’t get to do that to 9 children and then give me the gears with any amount of credibility for not wanting any.
@ Anne-Marie,
One of the more blatant examples of hypocrisy from the church. What’s mind boggling is that they don’t seem to see it.
He’s a person, I’m a person. Neither one of us can read minds. I wouldn’t proclaim to know what he knows, thinks or feels in his heart of hearts or anywhere else. What makes him think he knows that about me, let alone a whole, hugely diverse group of people because of one common characteristic? If indeed he does, I recommend he take that show on the road – far more money to be made there, and definitely more attention to be got. The whole idea is ridiculous and in essence appears to be inspired by the fear of having women truly think for themselves in every aspect of life.
Of the whole irritating article that was perhaps the first thought I had. Just who is this bloke who thinks he knows how I think and feel? The second point was that he believed that childfree women deserved to be on the receiving end of the criticism and name calling. Talk about a judgement call… instead of being biased to what he really thinks he should be saying that all people deserve respect for their choices. They do NOT deserve to be derided because they’ve made a choice to be childfree.
“Now, if Buddhism spoke out against being childfree, I would seriously consider whether my actions might be incorrect”
I evaluate belief systems based on their alignment with my values, not the other way around. ^_^
Of course, but so far Buddhism aligns 100% with my values, so if there comes a point where it doesn’t align with them, I’d reconsider them. Conversely, Catholicism generally sits in direct opposition to most of my values, so I’m less likely to worry about one more thing coming up. Does that make sense?
One of the most central themes to Buddhism is that you get to question what the Buddha said. Most importantly, when you do question something, you are responded to in a thoughtful and compassionate way. Therefore there’s a lot more room to explore something like that than there is in any other religion I’m aware of (with exceptions of perhaps Sikhism and I assume a few others that I don’t know much about).
I’m rather grateful to be disapproved of by an organisation which has covered up instances of child abuse in its own ranks countless times. In fact, I’d be worried if they approved.
Not having kids or causing people to wish they’d never been born – which is more evil, do you think?
” I wonder why the most holy people in the Catholic Faith don’t have children if it is so selfish and evil? Priests, nuns, and monks all choose not to procreate.”
Because apparently it makes you closer to God by foregoing the pleasures of the flesh. Go figure. But it only applies to them, not to you.
I’m totally with Serrin on this one. Catholicism is one sick, twisted religion and probably the most misogynistic organisation in the history of the world. As far as nutjobs like John here, they can kiss my CF butt. I’ll take my chances that I’m going to hell.
I read that article yesterday, and I agree with you. The article is indicative of what those who are childfree and Christian (regardless of what denomination) go through. The fact that the childfree are practicing good stewardship — a concept that is often heard from the pulpit — in terms of environmental and societal concerns, is seldom considered by most religious leaders. The few religious leaders who actually come out in support of the childfree are branded as having un-Biblical views.
@Hillari,
Oftentimes I think most religious leaders should never be let loose on society. By their words many do more damage to people than good. They are supposed to be understanding and walk the talk of at least basic respect… instead they tie people up in what’s often simply doctrine. You’re right, it doesn’t really matter the denomination. The Catholic church is simply more blatant about it. The Evangelicals are mostly in agreement with Mr Shea, it’s just it’s less obvious if you’re not in their midst. Being childfree puts you outside the groupthink and any support you might have expected from within the church is wishful thinking at best.
People need to keep the brains and common sense God gave them and not check them at the church doors… if indeed they want to keep going to a place that has so little respect for their choices….again, something God gave them.
And my relatives wonder why, after putting me through Catholic high school and 4 years of mandatory attendance at Mass every week, I became a free-thinking, feminist agnostic who’s deeply ambivalent about having kids? It’s because of having to listen to 4 years of ignorant, half-baked ridiculous assumptions like that. Women are people, not bloody axtol tanks whose only purpose is to breed future soldiers to combat the unbelievers.
One of my coworkers has a fiance that is Catholic. His grandmother has 76 grandkids and is heading to a nursing home next year so they can have her house. Out of all her kids and grandkids not ONE is taking the woman in. His parents want them to have a house to start their brood with and are running out of money helping the other 11 kids with paying for and establishing their own “baby mills”.
I thought she was joking when she said her future mother in law said they have to bring more Catholics to this world to help stop the evil and nonbelievers.
What an asshole! I used to work as a court reporter and I used to sit in the courtroom, day in and day out, hearing in graphic detail about parents sexually and physically abusing their children. The things parents can do to their own kids in the name of love is mind-blowing. It makes me so angry that people like this Shea bloke preach that it’s wrong to choose to be childfree, when there are so many people who have kids who shouldn’t. Is he saying that people should have kids even if they feel like they wouldn’t be able to cope? It’s far worse in my book to have kids and abuse them, than to choose to be childfree. I’m with Serrin – I’ve seen many churches and cathedrals in Europe. The Catholic church is so wealthy, yet they would rather spend their fortune decorating their churches than helping their worshippers. I think if the church is going to preach this view that people should have kids no matter what, then it has to have the intestinal fortitude to use their wealth to support families. “Oh wait! We can’t do that – we need to decorate our churches!”
What’s even more disturbing is how, when the Pope visits poor, poverty stricken countries where family planning is non-existent, the next meal is never certain and child mortality rates are high, he preaches that contraception is bad.
Totally agree. With religion and all of the movements it fuels (anti-abortion/contraception, quiverfull, etc.), it’s scary how this world has come to the conclusion that having love and respect for life means creating as much of it as we can instead of taking care of the life that is already here.
discussion may break out here:
http://laws-john.newsvine.com/_news/2009/08/18/3166477-having-or-not-having-children?commentId=8921258
You are not allowed to try to avoid having children, but those same religious website often advertise “natural family planning” where you only have sex when the woman (thinks she) is not fertile. How is that NOT trying to dodge the bullet? I gues they don’t trust the lord that much, huh?
UGH! I’m a believer, but churches are so bad. I was brought up a Catholic but it didn’t mean much to me, then as an adult I found faith and I’m glad I have. But churches have to stay OUT of people’s reproductive life. It makes me so mad.
If you’re married and have kids, they don’t mind if you are violent or irascible or selfish, but if you’re childfree and “living in sin” they’ll be on your back all the darn time.
A true Christian does not have the right to judge another human being, btw… it’s God’s job!
I am a believer as well, and have been for many years. In the process of working out my faith I’ve had a vast experience of different churches and sadly in too many cases they do their congregations a disservice – one of the many reasons I eventually stopped attending. Which was a pity as the community and musical aspect of church is something that went and I missed at first.
If churches really focused on WWJD? (What would Jesus do?) and stayed out of people’s reproductive choices they’d be fine. The likes of Dr Shea coming out with things like “well if women have decided not to reproduce then of course then they deserve the name calling from those who have… et al” is not something I believe Jesus would agree with.
Xena: Excellent point if you ask me. How many unemployed, poor and starving people do we need to get the point?
According to Dr. Shea there’s a Heaven and there’s a Hell and if I remain CF, which I fully intend to, I’ll be going to Hell.
So will the rest of you.
The alternative is Heaven with Dr. Shea and his likeminded pals.
I’ll bring a BBQ fork, some steaks, some sausages and a crate, who’s bringing the pitta breads?
That would be me, I’m a heathen from way back
I’m an agnostic, so if you guys are believers, I may have to get permission to cross the border (didn’t Dante write something about unbelievers having a separate circle of hell?), but assuming that’s not going to be a problem – I’ll bring cookies! Crispy, toasty cookies.
Not all Catholics are against contraception. See http://www.condoms4life.org/home.htm
Thanks for sharing those links WagDog.
More progressive Catholics with a healthier view of reproductive issues are also here: http://www.catholicsforchoice.org/
What makes me really wonder is how some people become spokesmen for God. I think the only supposed “holy” person that walked our planet was Jesus (as mentioned a CF man) and maybe Moses(?).
How can suddenly Mr This and Mr That imply to be in direct contact with a supposed supernatural being (i.e. God).. and abuse the faith of so many people?
Luckily, as an atheist its quite easy to ignore people like Dr. Shea.
If anything, I can think of good Biblical (yes, BIBLICAL) reasons to be childfree – or at least biblically permissible ones. Unless stated otherwise, all these quotes are from the New International Version
(Please DO NOT take this as proselytizing or otherwise trying to get you to convert. I’m simply showing how the popular Christian culture is so often so ignorant of their own Bible.)
Matthew 18:6 But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
Matthew 26:24 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.”
Luke 23:29 For the time will come when you will say, ‘Blessed are the barren women, the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed!’
There’s also an Old Testament passage somewhere that states that women who enter heaven get a blessing better than children (which I take to be salvation itself).
These four passages alone show that scorning of the child-free has no biblical basis. In fact, arguing from the Bible, I’d argue that it’s better NOT to have children. After all, non-existent people can neither sin nor go to Hell. Therefore, to stop future suffering, a Christian should consider the possibility that the price of a loving family may well be that their children and/or their descendants will face eternal damnation.
What a load of arse. If it was him that had to contemplate pushing nearly stone of human being out of his backside, he’d soon change his tune
Not the least bit surprising. One of the many, many reasons I dumped the Catholic religion ages ago.
I am not childfree. I spent a few years trying to conceive a child.
What I do not understand is what is so selfish about a woman not wanting children? I think it is more selfish to have a child you are not ready for or do not give the proper care and attention to than being childfree. These people need to put their priorities in order. These are the same individuals that would have contraception outlawed without thinking of the consequences.
I agree with everything said.
Jodi, I wish that there were more parents in the world that thought like you. The world would be a better place.
It’s so hard being a Catholic and reading stuff like this. It breaks my heart. I chose to be Catholic when I was 16 (before I knew just how much conservative stuff existed within the Church) and although I can’t honestly say I regret my choice, it’s people like Shea who shame me. On the one hand, the church says don’t judge, love thy neighbor, help the poor, welcome sinners at the table of plenty, and then people within the Church will say crap like this. It’s like the Church I love is betraying me and will someday forbid me from taking Communion if I get married and get on birth control (or get permanent sterilization).
But I also must point out that this is Roman Catholicism. There are other rites of Catholicism that are more liberal (and are not recognized by Roman Catholicism because they don’t believe in the infallibility of the the Pope
). They celebrate the sacraments and have many of the same prayers and practices. Lately, I’ve been trying to find one in my city, but the few that exist are farrrr from me. Alas. I’m still going to a Roman Catholic Church to woship because I need it that weekly dose of Mass, but man, the Roman Catholic Church makes it hard to be a faithful, practicing Catholic.
Hey there, Britgirl. Long time!
Interesting that I find this post of yours “coming back” to read your awesome blog and I was just confirmed into the Catholic Church (Latin Rite – what most know as “Roman Catholic” ) this past Pentecost (in May.) Cradle Catholic here, CF, and I absolutely LOVE the Catholic Church. Just a quick lesson about the Catholic Church and it’s churches. There are 22, I believe, Catholic churches under 3 different “Rites” that are in communion with the Bishop of Rome – who we know as The Pope. Then there are Orthodox Churches who are Catholic but do not recognize the Pope as Bishop. We are seperated – unfortunately, due to a schism in 1054, I think. Just wanted to get that out there. The *Roman* Catholic church, the Latin Rite, is so prevalent that that is what is usually thought of when referring to the Catholic Church, but there are other churches, although they are *not* considered to be “denominations,” as with Protestant churches. Those Catholic churches who are in communion with the Bishop of Rome will all have pretty much the same views about marriage and children and dogmas – otherwise they would not be in communion with Rome. Also, many Orthodox churches have the same views as well. There are some basic ideas that they all agree on. There are some slight differences, but mostly it is in whether they practice the Mass or Divine Liturgy and a few other things that are beyond the scope of this post.
That being said …
I’ve known my whole life I never wanted children (hence my moniker, and you know my story, Britgirl.) I’ve also known my whole life the teachings of the Catholic Church. Because of that I have stayed away from the Catholic church for nearly 2 decades. As I said, I have come back. I absolutely LOVE the Catholic church.
I can certainly understand the responses to this person’s article. Admittedly, I have not read the whole article and the responses from the CF are not much different from what I’ve read over the years and what I used to believe as well.
Know this: The Catholic church will not change it’s views on contraception. It won’t. Ever. (I’m not talking about the Natural Family Planning it does teach.) No matter how many “progressive” Catholics push for it. It is against what the Church teaches regarding marriage and God’s will. The Catholic Church teaches that sex is for two purposes, inside the context of marriage: it is for the unitive purposes of the spouses (so they can draw closer and more intimate to each other) and for procreative purposes (i.e. babies.)
This is why contraception (other than Natural Family Planning which is approved by the Church) will never be allowed. Ever.
The use of the word “disordered,” while offensive to many – and I can certainly understand why it is considered offensive – must be taken under the context of what the Catholic Church teaches. Under any other context, “disordered” doesn’t apply.
Please bear in mind that this author views reproduction and men and women with a different point of view that non-Catholics. So he is talking from that point of view. And I know I’ll be bashed for this, and that’s fine, but from that *Catholic point of view*, he is not viewing women as unworthy, less than, or brood mares. They consider mothers like Mary – who bore God’s son, Jesus.
Take this out of the context of being Catholic, well yeah, sure. I can see that one may come to the conclusion that women are considered mere brood mares. I know I felt that way for nearly the 40 years of my life until I learned how the Catholic church views women AND men. Men have a huge responsibility but is rarely talked about by people outside of the Catholic church. I guess because it is women who are the ones that bear all the physical responsibility of being pregnant and when the child comes, women usually are the ones who take care of child rearing. Did you know that men are called to die for their families if they have to? That’s not mentioned much. Personally, I think that’s huge, as huge as women having children. They care called to sacrifice themselves for their wives and children as Christ did for His Church.
Remember, when having children, the Catholic church talks about it in the context of being married. It’s not a good thing to be unmarried having babies all over the place. BION, it’s very much frowned upon by the Catholic church. For one, it’s sex outside of marriage. Another, it is the to the detriment of the children because the Church teaches that a child needs both parents, mother AND father, in their life for a well rounded upbringing. (Something I myself believe from personal experience.)
Also, did you know that the Catholic church teaches AGAINST IVF? If making a baby takes away from the sex act, well, the Catholic church says it is wrong. It’s interesting to learn what the Catholic church (and not some author who happens to be Catholic) actually teaches regarding sex and making babies.
I can see how this article can be considered as one side. Because, well, it is. The author only addressed one issue: *married* women who are childfree. As someone who has been “out there,” and has come back home to the Catholic church, I can certainly attest to the fact that it is not easy to be Catholic. We have “obligations” we must keep, rules to live by, so many other things that non-Catholics are not obliged to do. It makes it quite difficult. There will be those Catholics who will do those things because they “must,” and there will be those who do so because they love Christ.
If you’re wondering what about those of us who don’t want children, what would the Catholic church say? Well, consider that the Catholic Church considers marriage a vocation. Like a religious order is a vocation. And we are called to such a vocation. (Man, this is tough to explain and I know I may be lambasted for this…) When we are called to a particular vocation, as Catholics, we must go into it with full knowledge. i.e. Priests just don’t become priests overnight. They have years of study and are constantly questioned. (Let’s not get into the sex scandals here,please. I’m using this as an example.) Just because a man goes through seminary school doesn’t mean he will become a priest.
Same with marriage. While I know that many of you will consider this bullshit, and that’s fine, as a Catholic, if a person does not want children the Church does teach that perhaps they are not called to the vocation of marriage. With it’s rules and regs, marriage has many obligations within it. (The obligations of men aren’t talked about as much, but they are if one attends Mass regularly or reads up on Catholic reading and Catholic Church teachings – not some mere author who is Catholic. The couple as a whole and on equal foooting is talked about, generally speaking, on a regular basis and the obligations of both spouses, not just women, equally.) The church does NOT teach that the lack of a desire for children is “disordered” – what she (and yes, the Catholic church is referred to as “she”) teaches is that perhaps one is not called to marriage. Further, she does not teach that there is anything wrong with the person, nor is there anything wrong with the person who wants to remain single (without joining a religious order.) Not wanting children is a very valid within the eyes of the Catholic church. But if you don’t want children, according to the Catholic church it may just be that you’re not called to marriage.
This is a very long post and there is just so much more to what the Catholic church teaches that it is beyond the scope of this mere post. Remember, all of this is under the context of what the Catholic church teaches – i.e. the Cathechism of the Catholic church. What she teaches about marriage, children, life as a Catholic, etc. etc. If you’re not Catholic, you’re not bound by these teachings.
And for the record, the Catholic Church has never ever EVER taught that there is any one particular person in hell, nor will she ever say that any one particular person will go to hell. She does acknowledge that there are some souls there, but who and which, we don’t know. She just doesn’t do that. She has taught who is in heaven – i.e. the saints.
Keep in mind that it is human beings who distort what is being taught and the actions they take. i.e. If a Catholic tells a woman they must be “disordered” for not wanting children. No, that’s not the Catholic church, it’s that person making a judgement. Which they’re not supposed to do.. as taught by, well, the Catholic church.
Oi. I’m afraid to press the submit comment button but I wanted to jump in and defend the Catholic church. I love her so much. And flamencocat is absolutely correct when he/she says it is tough to be a practicing Catholic. It is probably harder than being anything else (wife, sister, programmer, mother, brother, husband, construction worker, doctor, etc.)
BTW, to flamencocat, I have been sterilized. Before I came back to the Catholic Church. I can receive communion now. But.. well.. let me just say that and leave it there.
You’re sterilized and can still receive Communion? Ooh, how’d that happen? I thought sterilized people were also in mortal sin. If you don’t mind, could you please send me an email (if you don’t want to discuss it here)? : flamencocat at live dot com.
What a cool website – wow. I am childfree by choice, 42 and just get happier and more relieved about it as I get older, as does my husband. Great to find a forum for like-minded women
I wonder why the Catholic Church haven’t harvested and confiscated all of the egg cells of all of the women under their religion so that even these ‘potential human beings’ can be rescued from those selfish enough to allow a period to go by without trying to procreate.
Is it just me, or would this also make sense according to their doctrine?
I think it wouldn’t make sense to the Church at all because it is suppose to be God who decides who gets pregnant and when, not us. So… harvesting the eggs and fertilizing all of them is the opposite of the ‘natural’ and ‘divine’ concept of creation. That’s just a crazy, sci-fi idea lol
Funny comment though.