Childfree Off-Topic… What’s On Your Mind?
Britgirl | August 28, 2009 | 7:00 amFor quite a while now I’ve been toying with the idea of an doing an “off-topic childfree post”. What’s that? Simply a post where you talk about whatever you want to about being childfree. Whatever’s on your mind. A bit like a general childfree soap box. Thoughts, raves, rants, observations, whatever – on any childfree topic. It could be a topic we’ve covered or something we haven’t yet. Though I had the idea for this for a while, I’ve kept putting it off because there is always some new, interesting topic to discuss… the childfree links people have sent in have been great (and thank you everyone, the topics are on my list!).
While our posts here are very focused – great because it really helps zero in on the discussion, and generates very insightful comments (of which I can’t say enough about) sometimes you might just want to say something that may be indirectly related to the post of the minute… or not related at all in some cases. Right now there isn’t really anywhere you can do that on Like It Is so I thought it was about time to create an avenue for that. So this is really an “over to you post” because I’m going to deliberately not focus on any one thing in this article – and believe me, it’s hard! Even as I write I have lots of ideas forming… I am putting them aside for another childfree post.
So what can you talk about? Well, anything childfree. It can be about the lack of opportunities to not focus on being childfree in our everyday life – the default state is to have children, the discussion tends to end abruptly when you talk about not wanting them.
It can be a childfree topic or thought you’ve had on your mind for a while (don’t forget you can still always email me if you have ideas – I do read all your email, even though I may not get time to reply to them).
It can be the fact that people are still very judgemental when it comes to childfree people and how that makes you feel…it can be about the way society still thinks that the only women who have any empathy are those who have children and if you don’t have or want them as a woman you have no feelings. Total BS, but that’s what we’re dealing with.
And what about if you’re single? Or a teenager? It’s open season, with people forever thinking they the right to tell you the only path to happiness is getting married and having children.
Recently, a colleague was telling me about why he decided to have kids after dragging feet for ages…. “ well,” he said, “I just realized that I was being selfish and I grew up.”
It can be basically about anything childfree, a question, a random thought even a comment that set your teeth on edge. I have to watch it here because I’m straying into topics myself and I’ve sternly told myself I’m not doing that. Trying not to write about any particular topic immediately brings a ton of topics to to mind.
I’ll add a caveat here (for the trolls I know regularly browse this blog, not regular readers)the rules of etiquette still apply. If in doubt read the disclaimer. Open forum doesn’t mean open season on the childfree. Differences in opinion are welcome, verbal attacks on commentators or the childfree or disrespect are not.
Anyway, let’s see how we do. Anything on your mind?
Ummm. . .I think I may have something! This has never happened to me personally but it happened to a friend of mine – I’ll call her M. M is an RN and while still a student nurse, she was rotating through OB/GYN (which is mandatory).
Anyway, she told me that she was with one woman in labour who’d just been admitted to the hospital. M was getting her comfortable when she asked M if she had any kids herself (M doesn’t and I’d describe her as a fence-sitter). Seeing no reason to lie, M said no. The woman asked her, rather coldly, how she could possibly understand what women in labour go through and told her she’d rather have a nurse who had had children.
While M and I understand and appreciate that labour is traumatic (reason # 1 billion why I’m giving motherhood a miss!) and a woman may say or do things she never normally would – that comment has stayed with me. Why was M judged and found wanting as a nurse simply because she’s never personally experienced what the patient has? If that were a requirement, there’d be an even greater shortage of staff!
Is an oncology nurse found wanting b/c s/he has never had cancer? Is an orthopedic nurse found wanting b/c s/he has never broken a bone? Even assuming the nurse has had personal experience – everyone is different. I have broken a bone before, so I should be able to better empathize with someone who has, right? Wrong. Like I said, everyone is different. People have different pain thresholds, coping mechanisms, etc.
I pointed out to M that even if that woman had a nurse who was a mother, that’s no guarantee she’d have an easier time of it. It pains me to say it, but I know a few women who are midwives and mothers and Iet’s just say I wouldn’t want them anywhere near me had I been foolish enough to sprog! M may not be a mother, but she can still empathize with being frightened and in extreme pain. I admit I am biased, but honestly, M is a great nurse, if I were sick I’d definitely want her caring for me. I guess it made me mad that she was considered not good enough b/c she hadn’t sprogged!
Anyway, that’s my off-topic 2 cents!
Bet if it was a male doctor or nurse the questions would never even have arisen.
This sounded so ridiculous it made me laugh. All the hospice nurses out there have never died, so how can they nurse the dying?
Anyway, as someone who was born, M technically HAS been through labor … food for thought!
Just curious… was M’s patient’s physician a male or a female? And if a female, did M ask her the same question before she chose her to be her ob/gyn? I doubt it very much. And even if M’s answer to the question “do you have any children” was yes, that wouldn’t necessarily have meant she gave birth to children… they could have been adopted.
Suffice to say… people are idiots.
M never said anything about the gender of her patient’s physician – my impression was the physician wasn’t even in the room at the time. I’ve heard from other nurses since then that some women (mostly of the crunchy granola hip mama variety) do ask the nurses if they have children themselves – not in a making-small-talk kinda way, but like it’s a job requirement or something! Come to think of it, I’ve never heard of a doctor, either male or female, being asked the same question. . .
And yes. . .people are idiots!
My pte peeve – when people ask me why I don’t have kids, I usually say that no part of the process ever interested me. From that, it takes them about five seconds to make the logic leap that I am an evil child hater who will smother their children with a pillow, should they be foolish enough to leave the child alone with me.
I’m sorry, but how the flying f&%k do you get to that? I have two dogs, and I appreciate that some people are scared of dogs, and some actively hate them. Which is why I train my dogs to be polite and well behaved. But if someone says ‘I don’t like dogs” I don’t assume that they’re going to pick up a gun and shoot mine.
This bothers the crap out of me. The logic leap should be – she doesn’t like children. Therefore, she will go out of her way to avoid being anywhere in the vicinity -which is much closer to the truth. I swear, dealing with idiot parents just makes my brain explode.
My rant as of late has to do with adulthood, and what is “expected” versus what makes an individual happy. Being in my mid-to-late twenties, I’ve had some personal revelations lately that have further infused my desire to remain childfree.
What is adulthood? To me, it’s where life really begins. It’s my time to express who I am, achieve my financial as well as personal goals, spend time cultivating my many hobbies, travel, wine and dine… The restrictions of being a kid are long gone, and my struggles answering the big “what to do with my life” question have finally been cleared.
Having children fits nowhere in with simply being me. It’s not who I am, nor who I want to be. Why do other people have to make us feel so guilty? We only live once, and the beauty of this life comes in the many forms in which our story unfolds…
Most people are unable to let go of the Life Script (TM) that’s been written for them. They’ve never questioned the premise that adulthood = giving birth and giving up everything else for that aim. Or maybe they have and everyone’s said go back to the script. Adoption doesn’t seem to count. Hence men are routinely told “grow up and have a kid” or “having a kid makes you grow up.” And women are routinely told “you’ll change your mind “when you grow up.” Isn’t it interesting how not having kids is often equated with immaturity? You will know a mature person because that person won’t question your choice nor belittle you or try and change it for you.
I feel you on that one… for many of us CF people it was never even a “choice”, it’s just who you are.
I’d like to see a poll of sorts – just to see where I stand among others. I’m 24 and recently married and have known since I was a child that I didn’t want to be a parent. Granted, it’s been only in the last year did I feel like I had a choice in the matter. The entire Childfree revolution is very new to me, and I find myself dying to connect with others that have similar beliefs.
I’d like to know when other readers KNEW that being childfree was the right choice for them. Whenever I tell someone that my husband and I don’t plan on or want children – they always respond, “Well, you’re young…that will change as you get older.” I don’t think this is true at all. I had a very troubled childhood and was forced to grow up way too fast – therefore, I never wanted to essentially give pieces of myself “away” to a child…and I’ve known this feeling since I WAS a child. So much is taken from you as you have experiences in life, and I wouldn’t be a whole person if I had a child – I know this for myself.
I knew I wanted to be childfree at 9 – but didn’t make the commitment to myself until 23. How about everyone else?
I’m another one of those who came up with lots of names (all girl names and usually from sci-fi/fantasy books) when I was younger, but I can’t ever remember seriously wanting a child. Pets are essential in my life. Kids are not. But I really didn’t think much about it until college when dating got serious. And then the gut-reaction NO! kicked in. I didn’t feel ready for kids and I decided sometime late in college (maybe age 21-22?) that I would never be ready for kids. I’m in my mid-30s now and I only feel more and more like I made the right choice for myself as people my age are suddenly drowning in babies.
As for my random off-topic bit… it’s nothing new… I wish I could go out and have fun without having to think about how many kids will be crowded around. Most of the typical adult-scene activities aren’t things I enjoy. But say I want to go to the zoo, of which I am a member. I never want to go on a weekend, because it is packed with kids. I’ve learned to not go on a Friday if possible, because that’s when most of the school field trips go to the zoo and then it’s not only packed, it’s packed with matching t-shirt mobs of kids. I’ve learned to not go to movies I want to see (which are almost always G or PG because I’m really bad with suspense and gore) until it’s really late at night and hopefully the kids aren’t there… or school is in and I get into a weekday matinee. I wish I could go shopping and not hear the high-pitched screams echoing through the mall from the play area, or the bored tantrums of the kids being dragged along by their mothers.
But I do have to say that I don’t remember a single kid at the restaurant today at lunch.
Granted, it was a sushi place, which is why we went for the cheaper lunch. But no kids!
I thought I’d have kids until just before I got married in my late 30s. It was always assumed. I used to discuss the possibility of twins, since they run in my family. Having said that, while my friends were eager to get married and have babies, I was never in a hurry. My husband didn’t really want children but would have had them if I wanted them – as long as we were clear what we were getting into and what the implications would be. So we began discussing the issue over the next couple of years and I just found I didn’t want them enough to warrant the huge sacrifice we would need to make. To me there is no point having a child and then moaning and whinging about how hard it was. If we were going to do it the child would come first – as it should – for as long as it took and in everything. There would be no resenting of that child and everything would change.
If I or rather we – had wanted them enough it may have been a different story. But we didn’t, either of us, so it was a very easy decision to make and one we’ve never regretted. Also, as I got older, the risk was increasing even if I did want one. We’d have to have got busy quickly with or without burning desire – and going down an IVF route was out of the question.
I should also say that I read many childfree books for a good couple of years… it was then I discovered the term childfree, until then all I read about was “childless” which didn’t fit me. As soon as found out about the childfree choice, I felt free. I had already made the choice, it was good to have a name that fit. I remember exactly where I was when I first saw the word “childfree”
I don’t remember much of my life, if at all, under the age of 6, so I say that I’ve known since I was 6 years old that I didn’t want children. Hence my online nick. I was always told the bingos told toyoung children. “You’ll grow up.” “You’ll change your mind.” etc. etc. I’m 40 now.
In brief…
When I was 19 I met a guy who wanted to go out with me and I found out he had a kid and the mother was taking care of it. I remember when I found out I thought, “If I don’t want my own kids, why would I deal with someone else’s?” So that never went anywhere.
In my mid 20’s I met a guy I thought I’d marry. Of course, it was on ME to “really delve and examine why I don’t want kids.” WTF? I just could not come up with a reason TO want children. I’d DRILL him with questions like, “Ok, if your son calls you from jail after having robbed a house, what would you do?” “Your daughter comes home pregnant. What do you do?” I realized 2 things. In those questions I always said something like, “your kid,” I never used the word “our.” Two, most important, why is it ME that has to examine why I don’t want kids. I’ve NEVER wanted them. Why doesn’t HE delve into why he wants kids???
That one never went anywhere by the grace of God. Seriously.
Since then.. I wouldn’t even date a man who had kids. Or if they “maybe thought possibly” kids would be alright. I’d rather be alone. And the man I’m with now, I told him before we were even dating, but were getting to know each other as friends, that I really liked him, but if he wanted kids, we’re not going to be anything more than friends. He was fine with that.
That’s my story. I was sterilized when I was 31 or 32 when I had weight loss surgery and I cannot even tell you how relieved I was when the doctor said I was “snipped and burned!” (Yeah, he used that expression, LOL!) and I have no regrets. None. I don’t even have an inkling of wanting children. I also have absolutely NO biological clock ticking. NONE.
I absolutely agree with all of you. I have never wanted to have children, and I am now 50 years old. I never liked dolls as a child, and I think maybe it has something to do with that.
I loved stuffed animals, and to this day I absolutely love animals.
I worked many years ago in a hospital as a dietary aide, and I had to go to the Ob/Gyn area to pick up the diet list. The nurses just left the newborn infants in portable cribs in the hallway. The babies were all beet-red and totally helpless. I just stared at them and couldn’t understand why any woman would want one of these. Plus the fact that the area was right next to the ER and anyone could come in and snatch one of these scary babies while the ER tech was asleep at the desk. Fortunately, this never happened.
But I had the unfortunate experience of hearing women in labor, screeching at the top of their lungs and cussing up a total storm. Like I really want to go through that!. I’m just happy with my 2 cats and my neighbor’s beautiful cat to keep me company.
I look forward to hearing some replies to this email. Both of my best friends have grown children so I can’t really complain to them, even though they are wonderful people.
Peace
Christy
Hey Sarah
to answer your question –
Growing up, I never really thought you could not have kids, so I figured I would have a girl (I even came up with names!)
By late high school I was starting to seriously question the whole kids thing, and in university I knew for sure. I remember talking to some guy about it, and he basically told me “good luck finding a guy that would want to be with you”
(Well, I met him in second year and we have been together for 4 years, I am 23, btw.)
BTW, This week the national post has a series of articles (mostly what you would expect from this newspaper, i.e. promoting breeding) in response to that book “40 good reasons not to have children”. Some of the articles are quite amusing. It kind of makes me happy knowing those self-righteous people really wish they could force me to procreate, (so we can all share the burden together!) and yet can’t! (:
P.S. Sarah – I saw you are a graphic designer – me too! (just finished school last Friday)
but I am in Toronto..
Emma, congratulations on finishing school! I’ve been out for…almost 3 years now, seems like not too long ago myself. Here’s to hoping finding jobs in Toronto is a little easier than it is here right now. Good luck!
emma, I feel you. I used to worry because so many childfree women knew for sure they did not want kids at age 5 or what you will, but I didn’t start to come to this realization until my 20’s. I had this long list of obscure girl names I liked too.
But when my post-college life began, it hit me that I never had a burning desire to have children (even though I’m a teacher and love my job, go figure). I planned it because I assumed it would happen. After all, “that’s what married people do.” That’s the life script. But in my head, I kept reducing the number of kids I wanted until it got to “1 max,”
and the time I had “planned to have kids” got later and later: “Well, maybe a couple before I’m 30″ “Oh, no way. None before I’m 30. “I dunno, maybe a couple in my mid 30’s.” “Well, maybe I’ll have one in my 40’s after I get a doctorate and tenure at a university.” Notice all the “maybes.” I kept avoiding dating because dating=marriage=kids and I said, “Oh, I don’t want to get married until I’m ready to have kids.” Even looking back at my journal entries from the beginning of college, I rarely talked about having kids. But I sure did reflect a lot on marriage and what a marriage should be like (again, didn’t mention child-rearing).
But I did soul-searching and it finally hit me that I could choose a life, even a marriage without motherhood. And when I looked back on what I always thought my “ideal life” would be, I didn’t picture kids. Even when I pictured my “ideal retirement,” I wasn’t in my kid’s house surrounded by grandkids. I was either a) in a small cottage in Quebec or b)sitting on a beach with a Latin lover who is half my age
. When I was a preteen, my dream life was to travel the country in a mobile home and every 6 months, stop by my nieces and nephews to give them lots of presents from my travels.
When I was 19 (back when I thought I was having kids) , I even expressed in a journal entry, “Maybe the reason I love teaching kids so much is because my intuition is telling me I won’t have kids.” And my journal entry expressed no remorse or shame about that
. It took 6 years of fence-sitting before I said “Look, if it’s not a definite yes, it’s a definite no.”
Flamencocat…
My experience with the journey to the decision not to have kids has been almost identical to yours! I always assumed I’d have them because it’s just “what everyone does.” I am also a teacher and love my job. I’d have to say that my doubts about having kids started in my teens and then grew during the college years. I was always secretly relieved that what were to be my childrearing years were this far-off, distant future endeavor to be dealt with in my 30s. And then…my thirties arrived. It then turned into this looming deadline–this sentence. I was using language with my husband like, “Well, we’d better live it up, now, while we don’t have kids.” I finally had a moment of clarity early one morning and realized that I did not HAVE to have children. What a relief that was! However, a few years after this epiphany, I still periodically have doubts and wonder if I’ll regret the decision. After all, I can be a very nurturing person and my husband would be a wonderful father to my children (he already has two boys from a previous marriage, so I know this for sure). I sometimes visit websites like this and read posts like yours to help me through these feelings..see despite my doubts, there is still no burning desire to have kids–no empty feeling or notion that something is missing. I guess I’m just sometimes worry that I’m depriving myself of an extremely important life experience. Still, not a good enough reason to have a child, in my opinion. You should have a kid because you really, really want one. Anyway, now I’m rambling….this is my thought process though, at times, I can go on and on!
Hi all. My off-topic is to do with my current situation. I was diagnosed a year ago suffering anxiety and depression which came about as a result of my (former) toxic workplace. My husband and I moved from Sydney 7 years ago to a regional area of Australia (New South Wales) which is parochial, ignorant of anyone/thing different, racist and intolerant. I am currently on sick leave without pay from this job which I started 3 and a half years ago. During the 2 and a half years prior to my doctor putting me on stress leave a year ago, I was subjected to verbal abuse because I came from Sydney and didnt want children. Amongst other things, I was called a selfish bitch because didn’t want kids, one woman would walk past my desk and call me a “c….t”, I was told to “F….k off back to where you belong, we don’t want your kind here”. Because my employer’s insurance company has denied liability, I have not been earning an income for almost a year now.
When I applied a few months ago to social security/sickness benefits, they asked for my husband’s income and was advised that he “earns too much”. I was asked if I had kids and I said no and the woman said “Oh what a shame, if you even had one child you would have got something”. I told her that it was hardly my fault that I was on sick leave without pay. She said that she “empathised” with my predicament but “Sorry we can’t help you”. I am 35 years of age and I have been working and paying taxes since I was 18.
For 17 years my taxes have gone to parents to pay for their breeding choices, my taxes have been supporting drug addicts in this country who are entitled to sickness benefits (not to mention my taxes being wasted on such drug addicts in all the free legal representation they receive in their many court appearances as a result of committing crimes while on drugs). Having children is a choice. Drug addicts made a conscious decision to experiment with drugs before they become addicted. I had no choice, and I certainly did not choose to be on sick leave without pay. I have lost all faith in the government in Australia and it’s obvious that the only way the government in this country will assist you is if you are a breeder or a drug addict.
I’m trying very hard to stay positive and to keep my chin up. I’m trying very hard to be positive and have the mindset that although financially my husband and I are struggling, at least he can support the both of us, even if we cannot save any money for the time being. I’m lucky too that I’m under the care of a very supportive doctor, psychologist and psychiatrist.
Thanks for taking the time to listen/read to this long rant
That sounds so horrible! I hope you get better and maybe move to a more friendly place…get a fresh start? you are still young, you can find a job you love with nicer people!
I’m very sorry for your situation, Childfree Aussie – what an ordeal! This may not be much consolation to you now, but it says far more about them than it does about you. I bet the toxic moos were actually insanely jealous of and threatened by your childfreedom – I’ve long maintained that those happy with their life choices don’t criticize others. Seems to me like they were miserable cos they unthinkingly followed the LifeScript (TM), ie they bred, and could not stand to be around a self-aware, intelligent woman who is capable of thinking for herself!
A while back, my sister was in a similar situation as you re applying for benefits. It seems to be the same no matter where you are – if you have a kid, you are almost guaranteed some form of benefits/medical care/housing, etc. Incredibly unfair IMO.
Hold your head up and stay strong (you must be cos you’ve survived this much) – things will get better!
Come to Perth! People are nicer here :p (Although, it’s very cliquey at times.)
That sort of thing really shocks me. The people I know who think I should have kids tends ot look on me with pity and talk about what a terrible childhood I must have had to be so damaged. (I had a great childhood and I consider myself quite well adjusted!) I’ve never been sworn at, and certainly not in the workplace!!
Keep your chin up.
Childfree Aussie, that sounds awful. It also sounds like you need to move somewhere much less hostile. Those ignorant women aren’t worth your time In the UK too, if you have a child there are many benefits available that are not accessible to those without. Sorry to hear you’ve not been able to work in a while… not sure what you did before, however have you considered any form of home/online business, like freelance writing, blogging, editing etc? I am always on the lookout for good article writers to either use or recommend. Email me if that’s something you’re interested in.
Thank you Emma, Liz, Serrin and Britgirl. I actually got teary reading your comments – I think it was just the fact of how compassionate you were. It’s something I haven’t experienced for a long time. I’m slowly on the mend and getting my confidence back, not to mention I have the support of a wonderful husband! One of my good friends, a man who worked at the same place, is in the same situation as me, but he is gay and has suffered homophobic verbal abuse. But you’re right, this behaviour says more about these women, than it does about me. I used to be angry but now I just pity these women. Fancy being so bitter, jealous and miserable about your own life that you have to belittle someone else? I’ve managed to keep my sense of humour though – I found an advertisement in one of our weekend newspapers where you could ring a free number and have a free sample of incontinence pads sent to your home address. I got some sent to the address of one of the worst perpetrators
Childish? Yes! Bitchy? Yes it was! But it felt sooooo good 
flamencocat – what are some of the names you liked? I liked mythological names, or the ones from LOTR. I don’t think I would have actually used them on a human though (:
maybe on a pet!
Another thing that affected me, when I think back, is my mom’s pregnancy. I was 13 at the time, and really grossed out by the whole thing (although I was happy I got a sister), and now that I look back it probably was the beginning of my fear of having something like that happen to my body…
And it’s totally like an alien living inside you and feeding off you! really creeps me out.
I mostly liked foreign names which were normal in their native countries but “strange” over here in the US, such as Kasia (the Polish form of Kate), Hana (”flower” in Japanese), Zeina (Arabic for “beautiful woman”). Also, I liked old names like Wilhemina and Tillie. I like words and word-meanings so I just have fun looking up names, period. My Mom (who of course wants grandkids and I’m the oldest and 25 years old, so I’m supposed to have them, like, right now) would always get on me for liking “weird” names. “You can’t name my granddaughter that!” Great thing to say to your fence-sitting daughter…
Pregnancy is not something I want to experience either, especially after I took a Human Sexuality class and they showed what happens on the inside of a woman’s body while pregnant. Supposedly women are “built” for breeding babies, but there’s no room! Even when the womb expands, there’s still no room! I wonder how many mothers would have jumped into pregnancy had they known what shifting and moving and permanent changes would happen to their body.
Children are a “miracle” in that the woman’s body treats the zygote/embryo/whatever like a parasite in the first trimester and tries to get rid of it, and that the female body really strains to support it as it grows. My mom eventually lost all her teeth after having us. We sucked up all her calcium (I guess) and her dentist didn’t do anything about her rapidly rotting teeth and gums.
OMG you guys are talking about names. That’s because deep down you secretly know that your life will be incomplete without children. (hehe)
I was going to name my daughter Belinda after my best friend, and I was going to have a son but my husband was allowed to name him. Then I grew up and realised I don’t even want the responsibility involved with having a dog, let alone a child!
Like many others, as a child and a teen I just sort of assumed I’d have kids because it was just assumed I would have them, even though I’d express I never wanted them. My visions of adulthood had the 1 kid off to some swiss boarding school during the school year and some other camp during summer. So even the ONE kid I’d think about wasn’t even in my life. LOL! Sometimes I’d tell my mom I’d adopt. I certainly wasn’t going to get pregnant.
At anyrate, when pressed what names I’d give my (assumed) kids I’d respond with either “Damien” or “Blair.”
Yep, the demon children from the movies “The Omen” or “The Exorcist.” I think some of the adults in my life (aunts and uncles) would find it amusing yet scary. I loved it. I wanted them off my ass about having kids because I didn’t want them!
My open thread topic is Christmas.
This coming Christmas is will be the first that I’m spending all by myself. Other family members that I used to spend previous Christmas holidays with will be otherwise busy this year. Funny thing is, it doesn’t really worry me that much, as Christmas is largely a construct for children and the childed. To me, it is no different from the New Years holiday, several of which I’ve already spent all by myself. It’s pretty much like a May day Bank holiday. However, my sister in-law seems to think it’s a bad thing to be spending Christmas alone.
What is Christmas to the childfree?
I don’t know where you live, but have you considered volunteering on Christmas day at a soup kitchen (or the like)? There are a lot of lonely poor (and homeless) on that day. Seems like an appropriate day to offer your services.
Thankfully, I’ve never been alone on Christmas.
I spent last christmas alone as I was travelling. It was kind of fun!
I think christmas for the childfree is being everyone favourite aunt/uncle, dividing yourself among three or so different christmas parties, over eating and coming home to a NEAT house to cuddle on the couch with your partner or to watch a cheesy movie on your own, feeling relaxed, happy and exhausted – and relieved that you aren’t having to listen to the loud squeals of children playing with and breaking brand new toys.
Or volunteering, which is also a lot of fun.
Before I got married I spent Christmas on my own quite a few times. I loved it. It was an unwind, peaceful time. There were always volunteer opportunities or going round to my siblings or inviting them to mine (they didn’t have kids then).I’d decorate my home, put up the tree, the works. I got the “Christmas is for kids” mantra from strangers but I knew better so I just ignored them.
I have never considered it “a bad thing” to spend Christmas by yourself. That’s just someone else’s opinion, not fact. I have always been comfortable with my own company, and though I was on my own at that point in time, I never felt alone or lonely. Christmas is what you make it. The choice, as with most things, is yours.
It’s interesting though how so many family Christmas get togethers dissolve into rows and arguing by the time Boxing Day comes around, unless everyone stays on their best behaviour. That’s what I call stressful – and I can quite happily do without it.
I’d LOVE to spend Christmas alone, or with just BF. Since we’re together we have always spent Christmas apart, each in our family. I could do without all the family drama that never fails to arise, I’d much rather volunteer at a soup kitchen!
@Swiss Barb – even now we spend Christmas with each other. We do all the “family visiting” before Christmas, so no one can complain they haven’t seen us then Christmas Eve, Christmas Day and Boxing Day are ours to do with as we please!
Well, for me it was quiet. Until I hooked up with someone. Now his family insists on get togethers. And this year, his sister had a baby.
gah!
It depends on WHICH “childfree” you’re talking to about what Christmas is like. I may be CF, my beau may be CF, but it’s not like we have a “quiet CF” Christmas.
Our families used to hint (heavily) that they wanted us to spend Christmas with them. We just nicely said we had other plans. We always try and visit beforehand, but no one’s yet given me a convincing reason why I should shelve what I/we want to do at Christmas for what they want us to do…if they get upset, well it’s their problem, not ours.
Kat- I get that an awful lot. Thankfully, most of my friends who have children understand that I have no desire to hurt their kids. In fact some of them have raised pleasant kids. Have had other people assume I would cause harm to their kids simply because I don’t like children. Like you, I’m a dog lover and it’s a pity that they didn’t dislike dogs so I could’ve have used your example for them. Ever had people assume that you would be a great parent/secretly wanted to be one because you loved their dog or cat? It’s not maternal instinct, it’s because I like dogs and cats.
One that really annoys me is when people assume that because I’m polite to their kid, I’ll therefore be a good parent. The fact that I am being polite to any child is simply due to something known as manners. I don’t like children but they are also human beings and if they’re polite then so am I. I find small children cute and may smile at a baby but I’m not maternal and I know I’d not be parenting material. Baby tigers at the zoo are cute but that doesn’t mean I’d want to rush out and have one!
As for the immaturity thing, that is something that I get fired at me loads. I am 25 and I’ve never wanted children. I’m also not actively looking for a lover although perhaps in the distant future that will change. For me personally, I have things to do and I’m currently studying and wouldn’t really have time to put into a relationship at this point in my life. I am forever having hints that it makes me “immature.” I don’t know if that is because single=not making babies but I’d be willing to bet that it is a large part of it. For me, being an adult is more about being able to manage your own affairs and being productive, not marital status or how many children you have.
As for knowing when you were childfree, I’ve known as far back as I could remember that I wouldn’t have any children. The whole family thing never appealed to me and even when I imagined things, I could never imagine having children in my life yet always imagined some dogs and cats. I have always imagined myself living alone with a few pets. As a child I couldn’t even imagine myself with a partner but as mentioned previously, I accept that it could change if I met someone I actually clicked with and/or fit into my life.
Btw – Emma and Sarah if you’re Graphic Designers email me privately… I am a copywriter and am always on the lookout for great graphic designers… I don’t want to spend time on design as it’s not my strength. I am in Toronto as you know however all my work is done via the web and email. Can’t promise anything but will put you on my recommended list…you never know.
Ok, I just made a very long post after having been absent from this fab blog that I do realize I do have something CF on my mind.
I am childfree and have recently come back to my original religion, which is the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church. I feel like I am stuck in between a rock and a hard place.
I just defended the Catholic church in another of BritGirl’s post regarding marriage, babies, being CF, etc. etc. Where I am stuck is not so much my views on being CF and what the Church teaches, I feel they are consistent and I can go into so much more but I won’t.
I’m stuck between submission to the Holy Spirit and trusting in Him and following the teachings of the Church on one side, and what I want. Here is where I am stuck: It is easy for me to marry and say I am open to the possibility of life when I have been sterilized.
I am stuck between defending Her, which I will when I feel up to it, submitting to Her (which, from a Catholic standpoint, I’m not submitting to a religion or to a person – the Pope, understand I am submitting myself to GOD alone, that’s what I mean) and what it is that I really think and feel. I hate to think that because I am Catholic someone would take me for some automaton when it took me a long time to logically come back to the Church. How it relates to me being CF is because that, really, is the only thing that has kept me from practicing a faith I love so much – Her teachings on marriage and sex and babies. Something I DO NOT agree with at all. But, I submit in faith that the Holy Spirit is teaching me through Her. (Please don’t ask me to find another religion, I believe the Catholic church to have the fullness of the Truth, to be THE church Christ founded, so I can’t, and won’t, leave it.)
As a Catholic, this is my challenge. It is looking like my beau (who is Catholic – different rite however) and I may be getting married. He doesn’t want children either.
How easy is it for me to say I can be open to the possibility of life when I have taken away that possibility willfully? And here’s the kicker: I have no regrets. None. I am glad I am sterile. I feel more guilt over being “vain” at my hair loss (I am now wearing supplemental hair) than I do over not wanting children.
It’s tough. The Church teaches it’s ok to not want children, but it may mean that you’re not being called to marriage. How do I reconcile: 1) I don’t want kids, 2) I want to marry my long time boyfriend? As a Catholic, the Church is right. She is perfect and is not wrong since She is guided by the Holy Spirit Himself. I FIRMLY believe this. So I wonder, what am I learning in all of this? What, if any, lessons is God trying to teach me? How am I to be of service to others with what I am experiencing to help them?
I don’t know. And I’d feel like a huge fucking hypocrite to say “Yes” to being open to the possibility of life when in reality I am not. (You’re asked that when you get married in the Catholic church.) So, instead, I don’t marry. And right now, I am fine with that. It’s just .. not fucking fair.
I hope this answer doesn’t come across as too simplistic, but there are two truths in most religions; the truth that God intended, and the “truth” that men reported.
Perhaps when God said “go forth and multiply” he really meant “until the earth is sufficiently populated, and then, for Pete’s sake, stop!”. There are many ways to interpret these things.
Realistically, if God truly loves you, then God wants you to be happy and kind and to serve others. It just doesn’t make sense to think that a loving and perfect God would force its human subjects into situations that make them unhappy, just to “prove” how strong their faith is. While I am not religious, if I were to believe in God I would believe that such a wise, powerful, all knowing being wouldn’t have an inferiority complex so huge that it was necessary to create and make miserable an entire planet of people simply to prove how great he/she is. Surely such a being would be motivated by love, compassion and understanding, not avarice, greed and pride.
From what I remember of school religion classes, God didn’t write the Bible, it was dictated to man. You may believe that God is infallible, but remember that man is not.
Hope that helps in some way.
Serrin, thank you for your note. It did help.
In the Catholic church there is the Magesterium which is the teaching authority of the Catholic church. We firmly believe that it is guided and protected by the Holy Spirit, and inspired as well. It’s not like a bunch of men one day decree something.I think this is why it’s hard for some people to accept what they say – especially since it goes against one’s personal feelings, thoughts, or desires.
And that is where I am. In the mean time, I go about my business. I’m not married so this is not an issue for me right now as a Catholic, but I hope to marry. And like I said, it’s sooooooooooooo easy for me to say, “Uh, yeah. sure.” When I’ve already thwarted “God’s will” with a tubal ligation.
CFSinceSix, like you, I was called at a young age to not have children. And like you, I am sterilized with NO regrets. As a Protestant, I did not grow up with strong teachings against birth control or against marriage without children, but I hope I can still offer you some words of understanding.
I had an analogous situation in my life. After a chapel service at the Christian high school I attended, the speaker asked if we would open our hearts to serving God through mission work. He asked us to stand up if we were willing, and most of the students stood. I remember thinking, “NO way. I would NEVER be a missionary. I won’t even consider it. EVER.” I remained firmly seated, arms crossed, mind closed. That ate away at me for a few years until a series of events in my life made me say one day, “OK, God. If you want it, I’ll go ANYwhere and do whatever it is you want me to do. I’m ready.”
The funny thing is, after that moment of submission, God did not call me into mission work. And yet I felt so free. It was almost as if God was saying, “That’s all I wanted to hear, my dear daughter. Now go back to what you were doing.”
I truly believe that God does not expect all of us to give birth, though God expects us to be charitable, to be shining examples to others, and to care for the orphans of this world (James 1:27). If a dear friend or family member were dying, would you be willing to take in her 7-year-old child as your own? Would you be willing to sponsor orphaned children through a charity? Would you be willing to mentor young people? Would you be open to adopt (someone of any age) if the circumstances fell into place? If you are willing to accept those situations, then I believe you can honestly say to your church that you ARE open to the possibility of children within your marriage. I know that I am being quite “generous” with my interpretation, but we do serve a generous God, after all.
I would love to have you stop by my Childfree Christian blog sometime so that we can talk more (click on my username to get there). Take care.
I’ll check out your blog! It sounds interesting. Those of us who have a religious belief that is very strict regarding marriage can be in conflict and inner turmoil over what we want, and what we believe. Especially when all we want to do is please God.
I can totally relate to your moment of submission. That’s exactly where I am right now. “God, if it be they will.” and “Thy will be done.” I’ve had those moments too. Once I gave it up, bam. I didn’t have to worry about it.
If God wanted you to have children then you would have “wanted” them but you don’t. So, you ARE trusting in God and following his will by not having them and staying true to who you really are.
I too, am Catholic (a recent convert from a life of having no particular denomination, not having been previously baptized either). I have also had several issues with the Catholic teachings about sex, children, birth control, and the like. I had a bit of a breakdown before getting married a few months ago over the guilt of not being compliant, nor wanting to say as a part of my vows that I would openly accept children.
How I’ve dealt… I feel at peace with God about my decision to live a CF lifestyle and use my talents and time in other ways. I won’t let this doctrine become a literal map for my life. God wants me to be the best person I can be, and that does not involve creating offspring. When I repeated the “accepting children” in my vows, in my mind, I was accepting children of family and friends that will come into my life, not children from my own body.
You’re not the only one out there going through this! I understand your dilemma. I almost didn’t get married (in the church) because of it. It’s never easy to receive criticism from anyone about our decisions to be CF, especially from the Church. I pray that you find peace!
roxetterachel, you have hit the nail on the head right there.
I guess where I have come to ’submit,’ As I.Am.Free mentioned above, is this: I may have done what I did in the past and have asked forgiveness and have been forgiven and absolved. But the way that I can be open to “the possibility of life” is to accept what God puts in my life AS life. If that makes sense …
Giving life can occur in so many ways. People can be so narrow minded and view it to mean only one having one’s own babies.
Incidentally, my beau was asked to be the Godfather for his niece. He didn’t consult me (we had committed to being together for life before we decided to think about marriage) and I was incensed. To me, being a godparent is more than simply helping to rear the child a Catholic, it grew up with the notion that should anything happen to the child, the godparents automatically get to take the child in. This was before my reversion back to the Catholic church. I didn’t want ANY kid in our life on such a committed level.
My beau, on the other hand, grew up with a godparent being ceremonial. (Those wacky Byzantines!
) However, once he realized, really, the role of a godparent he did apologize for not taking me into consideration for a decision that could impact OUR life together and individually. We recommitted to each other in that regard.
I think, tho, now it’s different. I’ve seen how he is with her. He won’t carry her, doesnt’ have an interest in her (nor do I. Although, just to shut up the grandparents and parents (this was their first kid) I did eventually carry her once. Photo op taken, and that’s it!) and he wouldn’t want to be responsible for her either.
Anyway …. since coming back and reconciling with the Catholic church, were he and I to marry, and we had to take any of his sister’s kids in (I’m an only child, so no neices or nephews from my side) I could accept it. Not necessarily WANT it.
This also talks to I.Am.Free’s response to me as well about what I could accept in my life.
Here’s more stuff I want to say…my brother actually asked me if I was a lesbian. I said no!
I want to climb Johnny Depp like a tree!! I love gorgeous men, even though I can’t get near them. I have dated men, though they all wanted marriage and kids. No thanks!!
I’d love to grow old with the perfect man, who doesn’t want kids, but loves yard sales and swap meets and antiqueing. (Is that a word?) Help me, Mr. or Ms. Wizard!!! You’re my only hope!!
Christy in California
What annoyed me recently as a CF, well, it’s a build-up over the last 4 years, is my best friend. She moved to the UK with her husband and had been desperately trying to have a baby. She kept telling me about it, how much she wanted one, etc. I tried to be supportive, but it was annoying. I suggested she adopt, but that was out of the question for her. She finally managed to have a child this year. And now, she complains about how hard it is. I wanted to bitch-slap her through the phone. She has no right to complain after getting what she yearned for. I’m so annoyed with her.
I don’t blame you for being annoyed with her, that kind of thing is so frustrating. In the UK the benefits for being pregnant and popping a sprog are ridiculous. Long term (paid weekly) benefits for first 18 years of life, tax rebates, free dental care and even £200 for just being pregnant (apparently it’s called the “health in pregnancy grant” to encourage healthy eating – I can’t see it going on more than a pram, designer clothes, take aways, fags, alcohol and such). And, it’s a choice: if you choose it, should you have a right to complain about it? It’s what you wanted, you knew the pros and cons of it, if you didn’t then you should have weighed them up. You knew it was a lifelong commitment, you knew the physical and mental toll it would take, but you still *chose* to do it. No, they have no right to complain.
Some of the nicest and kindest people that I have met have been those whose paths I have crossed while either they or I have been ill. They never complain. Often their quiet courage has inspired and humbled me. They didn’t choose their poor hand in life, but they have made the best of it, and they graciously accept it.
Since this blog is really more free-form today, I would like to vent on a personal problem I’ve had going on the past few months. I’ve just lost a very good friend to a very minor upset, or at least I THOUGHT she was a good friend before she jumped to conclusions and very stubbornly refused to even speak to me anymore. The origional tiff is really not the point anymore because in trying to diplomatically resolve our issues she brought up many things from the past (like 2 years or more past) that obviously bothered her much more than she had let on. After apologizing, taking blame, pointing out our good traits and things I thought needed work on, she blew into me like nothing else. Part of the argument then was the amount of time I spent with my fiancee that led to less time spent with her. I pointed out that where I would get off the phone with her to greet Daniel, she would also talk to me on the phone until she got to where she was picking up her child and then the conversation would be over. Because her child came first! I found that completely understandable yet could not understand why she couldn’t see my fiancee’ as an important person in my life that at least equalled her relationship with her child. I directly pointed that out too – that while I understood that her child was a dependant and Daniel is an independant adult, both are priority people in our lives and will always come first. I then pointed out that of the two of us, I was the one doing more of the accomodating for her child’s sake. We didn’t eat dinner out at sushi resturants (no kids menu), I saw I don’t know how many movies I didn’t want to see because the little one would be with us, our plans couldn’t be too late or too early depending on her kids bedtime/school schedule…etc etc. The list was long and my friend denied all the work and flexibility I had put in making our relationship work. I feel like I have lost 7 years of my past, The things we had worked on, the jobs we had moved through, our mutual friends we hung out with all because of a simple misunderstanding that revealed exactly how jealous she is of our child-free state. Now, even if she came apologizing to me I couldn’t be her friend. Not at all! I know now that she doesn’t view her child as the inconvenience that she is not to mention that her child was very very badly behaved in public, to the point of embarrassment. I had thought she realized the effort I was putting in in order to be around but no, not at all. Sigh. It really gets to me that she could be that ignorant of how MUCH her child affected our relationship and deny it completely. Sigh.
Whoa, been away for a while. Many interesting discussions as per usual!
boxermom, I just wanted to jump in and say that I feel your pain. I have had a very similar experience with a very good–once in a lifetime–friendship. After she had her first child, there was a lot of accommodating on my part and very little on hers. She’s older than me and had transitioned into marriage, kids while I was still dating. I was there for her though thick and thin but when she met my now husband and I started planning my wedding (small but tasteful) suddenly I was being “selfish” because she had a child so she couldn’t just drop everything to participate. Hmmm, you mean the way I dropped everything to participate in your wedding, pregnancy, childbirth. etc.? Then it started with snarky comments about my transitioning into another area of work (one that she had always wanted to pursue but couldn’t because of her children). I began to realize that while I had continued to be her champion and to support her in her life choices (even those that I would not choose for myself) she was not reciprocating. I was baffled and hurt by her behavior so I started to distance myself a bit. When she asked me what was going on I gently explained how I felt our relationship had become increasingly asymmetric, what I got back was, “you don’t understand because you don’t have kids”. BLAH!!! I understood very well, which is why I chose not to have children. And what I also do/did understand is that she still wanted the benefit of my friendship, but I was supposed to take what she felt she could be troubled with. Since she was my friend what was important to me should have been important to her–even if our lives had changed. One hates to think that a very close friendship is purely situational….
Hang in there boxermom, I believe that sometimes friendships cycle and then come back to a more happy place. In the meantime, we keep being our best selves and continue to connect to those who don’t take us for granted.
I wanted to add one other thing that really steams my asparagus in general about women with kids. I’ve noticed that no matter what I have going on in my life, in their “minds” NOTHING is equal in importance to having a child. I don’t know if this is some kind of defense mechanism that kicks in that translates into communication that always comes across as pitying–”oh, poor you, so what if you built a rocket ship in your back yard and propelled yourself to Mars and back in one day, did you have a baby????!!! Cure for cancer??? Bah, but did you have a baby? No, well then spare me your stories!” Subtext being I’m counting on my kid(z) to achieve all the things that I never will now that I’m a mom. I’m not one to self congratulate, but honestly it would be nice, if not polite, if comments that don’t have to do with kids are met with a little more than a blank stare or a segue back to little Johnny’s bowel movements.
I came across an article recently somewhere (women’s mag?) about how women who are stay at home moms are even competitive with working moms. According to this article the working moms are always getting the message that they aren’t quite good enough in the parenting department. I guess these are the Queen Bees from high school who just can’t let go of the one-upping in order to make themselves feel better about their choices. I wonder what the prize is in this never-ending competition? If you need to make someone else feel bad to make yourself feel better, it’s sort of a hollow victory, no?!
Hey Boxermom… somehow, knowing what I know about how babies take over a woman’d life after they’ve had one or more when a good friend tells me she’s pregnant I mentally say bye-bye – to most things we had in common, as I know they are going straight out of the window. They will be too busy with their new offspring to bother about much else… that I accept. What’s more irritating is that I will be expected to show just as much enthusiasm for her children as she does. They might even start telling how wonderful their life now is and that you should have a baby too…
no thanks!
Since that isn’t going to happen – I am just not that interested – I start getting ready for all that early on. 99.9 percent of the time the childed person goes off and makes new friends (other mothers) and gets caught up in the world that is baby. I also don’t have patience with people who crave and pine for a baby then whinge about “hard it all is” Suck it, up buttercup, THIS is what YOU wanted.
I have one friend for whom that didn’t happen. She, always craved to stay in touch with other people other than mother and baby groups and always looked for adult conversation so it was great.. But it’s a rarity…
It’s tough for me to talk about my religious beliefs and being CF. Because then you have people like the Duggars and then you have people thinking you’re a religious freak or nut when really, the extreme freaks and nuts are a small minority. The rest of us are sane.
Guess what? Yeah, you guessed it. She’s expecting #19.
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20301647,00.html
Hasn’t this brood mare’s uterus fallen out yet?
I just wanted to post a random comment about how people blinker themselves a lot of the time and actually ASK to be lied to.
eg I was recently at a dinner party where there were a lot of kids running around, making noise etc. Frankly this doesn’t really bother me – it’s their house and I don’t mind playing by their rules, and it’s only a few hours. I have a quiet house to go home to at the end of it.
However while other people (who don’t have kids yet) were cooing and gaga-ing at the kids, I was noticing the parents. One couple was subtly arguing with each other about who gets up more at night, and the wife was using another husband in the group as an example “HE does it, did you NOTICE that?” etc
Another couple was saying that they had once wanted 4 kids but decided to stop at 2, for financial reasons and – to quote the husband – “it just stresses me out too much”.
The complaining went on for a while and then someone’s not-yet-a-dad husband said “but you have these great kids in your life” and the couple kind of hesitated and then went “well, yeah, of course”.
PEOPLE – ARE YOU NOT SEEING THIS? Stop blinkering yourselves to the truth! Sure kids are fun for an hour when you don’t have to rush over when they’re crying and you just get to play with them and make faces – but look at the state of these people’s relationships! Look at the lines in their faces, the fatigue, the stress, the blank stares! If I didn’t know they had young children I’d think they had depression!
The lie is so well told that people look straight past the truth and actually ASK to be lied to!
Meanwhile I mentioned this to my boss this morning and he said “Honestly, I recommend you don’t have kids. I wouldn’t do it again. It’s too expensive and too hard.” I thanked him for his refreshing honesty.
Boxermom and Lee. I know women like that, too. But they are not close friends — they couldn’t be. I also have some relatives who seem to no longer be individuals now that they have kids.
I consider myself very lucky that one of my closest friends spends a good amount of quality time with her childfree friends.
We go to dinner, movies and we travel. I do enjoy children
and her kids are well-behaved and interesting little people. My friend talks about all kinds of things — not about her kids all the time. If I ask (and I do) she will update me on their lives but that’s because I truly am interested.
I know I am lucky. Being a parent is one part of her life — she is still a person with other interests. She’s also a wonderful parent who is raising (with the husband) some very fine kids.
I know this is a rare friend.
Christine–You are lucky indeed to have such a solid individual as a friend. If you had asked me if it was possible that my friend would change as much as she has I would have said, “No Way!” It’s almost as if her character has completely transformed (but not in a good way) which I didn’t think happened once you had reached adulthood. She was always very much her own person (a women’s studies major, for god’s sake). But I think she may have found the whole thing more overwhelming than she had anticipated and is just expressing all around frustration. I get the impression that she is being strongly influenced by her DH who ranks pretty high on the judgmental bar graph. The thing is she has no reason to be frustrated with me as her having children was not my decision. I do think though that she had an idea that I might have a bout of pro-natal panic and have a change of heart about having kids and that we would share that experience, but since that didn’t happen, she feels a little betrayed. Perhaps she’ll come around, but I know that having a one-sided friendship is not something that I can sustain.
Coincidentally, I just had a conversation with another child-free friend today who was telling me of a woman she had met in a yoga class. They would chat before and after and had coffee, but when it got down to talking about mates, children etc., the woman told my friend point-blank, “You don’t have kids so I can’t be friends with you.” Whaat-evah! Pity the person who only wants to know people whose lives mirror theirs exactly. I told my friend she should be lucky she found out up front before she invested in this person.
Yes, it’s a rare find. I have a couple of friends who are parents and they are just as interested in having a life. I met them when they were already parents though. We go out and do things and it’s great. They don’t bore you with children stories, so I like asking about their children – who are great by the way. I know these parents do exist… I think they are the way they are because it’s who they are and they remain who they are as people. And that makes for mutual respect and great times when we get together.
Like you, I count myself as lucky that I have more friends who are parents but haven’t lost their souls to parenthood than former friends who are now nothing but parents. I’m sure as you’ve so eloquently put it that a lot of that may have to do with the essence of who they already were as people before they became parents, but I’m pretty sure that some of their ability to remain the cool friends that they always were before they had kids also has something to do with having friends like you who are there to remind them that parenthood isn’t the only important thing in their lives and that they have identities based on more than just their kids. By remaining friends with them, you help keep them from being sucked into the parents-only zone (and from what I’ve seen, it’s a pretty strong pull to resist for even the coolest of parents) and keep them tethered to the world outside of their kids by giving them company & friendship that is based on ALL of who they are, not just friendship/camaraderie that is based on the fruit of their loins so to speak.
Which is a long way of saying that although sometimes there are friendships that won’t survive parenthood, sometimes it’s worth sticking it out with friends who are teetering on the brink of parenthood because they need you to help keep them grounded and remind them that who they were doesn’t need to disappear under a pile of diapers.
My recent weirdness has been finally hitting the period in my life where everyone around me is starting to have kids. My boss just had a kid, one of my co-workers on my small team is about to have a kid, a sizable portion of my ex-girlfriends are having kids, and my wife’s friends are starting to have kids. (I’m 30, and my wife is 28.) I’m pretty introverted, so at least I don’t really have many friends to watch turn into parents; two of my best friends (other than my wife) are thankfully *not* parent material, with one being as vehemently childfree as me, and the other being gay with seemingly no interest in kids. They don’t live near me, unfortunately.
I think I’d prefer to meet other childfree people in my area (Chicago), but the local chapter of No Kidding seems to be very … mundane. I’m a weird geek boy, and activities like “garden party” and “annual cookie exchange” and “Superbowl party” leave me feeling cold. I guess what I’d *really* like to do is meet other childfree *geeks*, but how do you do something like that? Identifying as CF is rare enough as it is. :p
my bf is a childfree geek
(too bad we are in Toronto.)
He also has a bunch of co-workers with kids…their stories about waking up at ungodly hours on weekends to drive kids to activities really put him off kids for good.
And we also tried the local childfree group and it just felt kind of weird. We met some nice people but they were quite a bit older, and some of the other people really didn’t seem that interested…
BTW – the Onion? cool!! Love that website. We got the fake gift boxes and played an awesome trick on my mom with the 28 whisk set!
Yeah, I’m starting to think that it wouldn’t be such a bad thing to start an alternate site or group for people who are both childfree and on the younger/geekier side; I don’t know how many people I’d find that way, but it might be worth a shot.
And I guess my profiles give away who I work for, eh? ^_^ Glad you like their stuff! (I’m wearing one of the t-shirts right now that says “Report: 90% Of Waking Hours Spent Staring at Glowing Rectangles”, which is all too appropriate.)
Ha! another great gift idea!
TT–Your list of traditional “fun” things to do gave me a laugh. My husband also self-identifies as a geek and the only way you could get him to watch the Superbowl would be if you chained him to the sofa and super-glued his eyelids open. This is one of the many things about him for which I am grateful!
I didn’t even make those up — look up No Kidding’s Chicago chapter (you can just google: no kidding chicago) for the full list.
TT– I’ve found when getting to know most people, you can have one big thing in common, like being child-free, or working in the same place, or even living on the same block, but if all of the other things about a person don’t gel enough to make a friendship sing, it eventually just falls flat. The more idiosyncratic your likes and dislikes, the more challenging it becomes. There was an article in Salon recently about a young couple in Chicago who were on a mission to find other cool couples to hang out with. The focus wasn’t on finding others who were childfree, just simpatico. Both the author and his wife worked from home so they normally didn’t get much exposure to other humans on a daily basis. It was illuminating reading the comments section. If you do a search on Friends or Friendship you should be able to pull up the article. I’m sorry I don’t remember the headline.
Hey Tom, these days you can set up all kinds of networks… why not start your own? You could use something like Ning… I bet you’d get people join. Best thing is, you can get the people that YOU want to join it and have the activities that YOU want…geeky younger and childfree… I bet you’ll find them.
Why is it SUCH a social taboo to bring up the fact that people REGRET having their kids? I think about this alot, but it was ESPECIALLY on my mind when I read an article in People a couple weeks ago about one of those Kardashian sisters who got pregnant. She said her doctor told her “you might regret not having it, but you will never regret having it.” WHAT?!
Does the doctor honestly think that NO ONE regrets having their kids!? OF COURSE there’s a possibility that she could regret having the child…but… alas..23 years of living on this planet has taught me that the one thing you are NEVER supposed to say is that you regret having your children. I think that’s one thing us child-free people are enlightened to-the fact that it is TOTALLY possible to regret having kids, and everytime you hear of a woman (its usually ALWAYS a woman) being like “well i had to give up my career to be a mom…but it’s worth it!” or “i had complications during pregnancy and now I’ve gained weight and can’t lose it or i have stretch marks that won’t go away or i suffered some complication that’s altered my life in some irreparable way…but its worth it!” or my favorite “well.. my son/daughter never graduated from high school, never did anything with their lives, we don’t really have a good relationship, i never really see them….but it was worth it!” you just think to yourself “wow, you are not fooling anyone!”
Yeah, you’ve hit on something there. I was talking to someone recently who said that their reproductive system is now deformed and they have masses of scar tissue from having had a kid who weighed over 10lbs. They now live with the constant pain which inhibits their ability to do a lot of things. But her final words were “It was worth it!” No, I can’t believe it was.
The only person with children who has ever said to me that they regretted having them was my Mother. She loves us, but she wishes she’d never had us. She knew she wasn’t parent material and was always more interested in her own career, and she can fully understand why I’m Childfree. I don’t resent my Mother for admitting that she regrets having children, in fact it makes me love her even more that she is so comfortable with me that she can be that honest. I feel no animosity towards her, maybe I would have done if she’d said it when I was a child or teenager, but now that I’m an adult, I can fully appreciate and understand it. She hopes it serves as a warning that I shouldn’t do something just because “everyone else does it”.
There are more people than you think who regret having kids. But you will rarely find anyone to admit to it, as it is probably the biggest taboo subject ever. I did a post about it some time back, I’ll have to see if I can find it. After all the hoopla about how fulfilling it is to have children and how a woman’s life is only fulfilled once she’s produced kids and the whole marketing that surrounds having children, I can quite see how any notion of regret must be stomped on and suppressed. It’s like a conspiracy. Very few parents will admit it even to themselves, because they’d probably be accused of the equivalent of heresy
and in a bygone age be burnt at the stake by other parents. By the time one regrets having kids though, it’s too late. They are yours, for better or for worse. What would be nice is if people were more honest.. when someone who’s considering having children asks the questions, instead of glossing it over with rose-tinted glasses and saying things like “oh it’s ALL worth it, if they regret having kids they should be honest and say why. It doesn’t mean the other person will have the same experience but at least they have a balanced/alternative view.
Having said that, anyone considering having kids or being childfree should think very hard beforehand, read all they can get, observe different parents and ask the right questions and draw their own conclusions. Most never do that , they just go with popular opinion and the flow…and then complain after the fact when the dream falls short… total waste of time. The kids didn’t ask to be born.
thanks for responding to my posts guys
It’s so nice to have other people actually understand where I’m coming from, rather than act like I’m some evil person or something!
This is the thing that really pisses me off when people try to convince me to have kids – that despite the risk of physical damage (which is a HUGE issue for me since my mom began displaying signs of MS a scant few months after my kid brother was born – I know my risk is statistically minimal, but considering what she went through for the next 8 years before she died, can you blame me for being freaked out by even the most remote possibility of having the same thing happen to me? Apparently some people can.) and/or emotional damage (I’ve known more than a few women who’ve had serious postpartum depression problems), despite the financial burdens and strain on a relationship, having kids will ALWAYS be worth it. Really?? You honestly expect me to buy that bill of goods when you’re constantly sleep-deprived/strapped for cash/bitching about the state of your body? Maybe it’s because I grew up being smacked in the face with how bad things can happen to good people constantly, but the instant anyone tries to sell me something without any apparent negatives, my BS radar immediately goes on red alert. I know I’m ambivalent, but I’m not stupid!
I have far more respect for someone who tells me that yes, they do have regrets about having kids and wouldn’t do it again, or someone who says, yes, I know all the risks and I’ve accepted them and that there’s no guarantee that despite my best efforts, my child will grow into an admirable adult, but I’m ok with that choice – and I’m ok with other people not making that choice. Admitting regret for having kids doesn’t have to be the same as not wanting those kids or not taking responsibility for them – like most things, repression instead of admission usually leads to all sorts of problems later, so it’s very sad that expressing regrets about becoming a parent remains for the most part socially unacceptable.
Lee: When you said:
“It’s almost as if her character has completely transformed (but not in a good way) which I didn’t think happened once you had reached adulthood.”
Got me thinking…
I wonder if the fact that my friend is an older parent has anything to do with it. We were friends for many years as adults before she had kids. We had a chance to develop our friendship without children on anyone’s agenda.
Tom, I’m a geek too (professionally and personally) and I would visit your alternate site for people who are both childfree and on the geekier side. But young perhaps I’m not — I’d have to lie about my age and use a fake profile image.
In all seriousness, I bet you would find other people like you. I know they exist.
Christine: Thanks for your response. My friend and I knew each other as adults for over a decade before she had kids, from our mid-twenties to mid-thirties. She was always very much a free spirit, but then she got engaged to a man for whom I don’t have much fondness. He’s rather conservative and controlling. From what I’ve witnessed, it’s either his way or the highway. I (along with all of her other friends) found my friend’s choice of life partner shocking. They didn’t know each other long before they married and I fear that with the passage of time he has shaped her new attitude a great deal, but that’s not something I could really bring up without causing major offense. Some people adapt and compromise their character to keep relationship waters trouble-free. It’s sad, but what can I do.
I think the “younger” part is just a reaction to seeing that list of activities at No Kidding and finding it hard to believe anyone under 30-ish belongs to the group; the important thing to me is “geeky” and “fun”, so I certainly wouldn’t mind a group that actually did things I considered fun regardless of the age of the members/participants. ^_^ I’m giving serious thought to starting such a group/site; I’m a web developer by trade, so it would just be a matter of finding some time to throw something together. (As britgirl said, there are ready-made sites like Ning, but I’m kinda stubborn about doing stuff myself.) :p
Geeks rule! You know, I’ve been pleasantly surprised over the last couple of years how it’s gotten easier to find like-minded individuals for whom the words “geeky” and “fun” are an essential part of their vocabulary. Living in a big city may have something to do with it though – with a population the size of Chicago’s, it would be hard not to find at least a few other people with similar interests. My husband and I are both writers & sci-fi/anime geeks in our 30s, but with slightly different flavors – for he writes noir/cyberpunk sci-fi and runs a regular D&D campaigns while I write more fantasy fiction & personal essays and hang out with firedancers – so at least the company we keep has a lot of variety! We don’t have kids, which I think makes it easier for us to find & maintain all these different types of friendships. We’ve had some success through Meetup.com for finding local groups, but as firefly has pointed out, sometimes the groups can be a bit clique-y. So I say go for it if you feel like setting up your own web group, and please keep us posted, as it sounds like something I’d definitely be interested in joining.
I work at a University doing various things (checking on exams, room surveys) and meet a lot of foreign students. I *love* meeting people from other countries (and I’m an American in the UK) and it’s so fun to talk to them. But the question they always ask me, because I’ve been married for just over two years now, is when I’m going to have children.
It’s different for me telling someone American, Canadian, or British that I’m not going to have children. But it’s hard explaining to someone from a non-Western culture with a high birthrate that I’m not planning to breed, ever. I murmur something politely like maybe later, but these people want to know an exact month and year! It feels so uncomfortable lately.
And don’t even let me get to the part where my MIL eventually realizes that my husband and I aren’t breeding. She’s OBSESSED with my SIL’s baby and can’t wait until she thinks I’m going to squeeze out one of my own. I have a feeling this is going to create a huge problem.
I agree, it’s not easy to find like-minded people especially if you tend to the unconventional in more than one area. My bf and I are 47, and apparently geekdom knows no age
I wouldn’t want to hang around with the cookie-exchangers either — I’ve tried many forums over the years and I usually wind up cruising off into the sunset after a few weeks because I have so little in common with everybody else.
If you do start a group, would you post a link here? I’d like to hear about it and maybe join.
Meantime, you might try the LiveJournal community Childfree Hardcore — there are a lot of younger people there (and many geeks and anime fans). I mostly lurk there, but it’s by far the most interesting organized group of people I’ve found online.
Sorry, I goofed — the above was supposed to be a reply to Tom Tobin. *Sigh.*
I’ll continue on another topic, since it’s in free form. Since I’m CF, I can choose to give more time to a hobby of mine: sewing. Well, I started only recently, because I had an idea for a great product I could not find anywhere (when it’s official, I’ll tell you more), or at least not in the style and shape I wanted. So I started going at my MIL’s to use her machine untill I got mine. So far, friends have tried my prototypes and gave me great feedback with suggestions to improve my idea, etc. So I keep working on it. I found a good name, went on the OPIC web site to check if the name was taken. It was not. So I requested a trademark. I also checked if the url matching my chosen name was taken. It was not in the .ca form so I bought it. I have to read a contract about the use of a .ca site. Now I wait to have an approval from the OPIC for my trademark. Hopefully, I’ll get it. Maybe it’s the start of a new career which I can work at my pace on weekends. Wish me luck!
Sounds great, and interesting!
If it’s a supportive and ATTRACTIVE bra, or swimwear in sizes D and up, please keep me informed! haha
Unfortunately, it’s not, although I wish it would, because I need it too! I’ll keep you posted!
Just came across an article.blog post that you guys might find interesting; contains comments from people who wish they had never had kids.
http://www.sanemoms.com/journal/2008/3/9/ever-wish-youd-never-had-kids.html
I also saw this particularly funny (also sad) comment by one mother on a forum the other day…
“I used to say I loved my kids so much I could just eat them up…. now I wish I HAD!”
Oh, gosh you are going to open the floodgates now with this one..
a former friend who, after havinf her first kid, cut off all contact when I mentioned I didnt want kids. Her response “then you are not a real woman. there is something wrong with you”
Things that have been winding me up lately with regards children, breeding, CF-ness
1) When my BEST FRIEND said she thought it was good that the NHS will not let me get sterilised. My best friend, my best friend who I thought actually listened to what I was saying, came out with “yeah, but you could change your mind and then what would you do?”. Why would I change my mind? If I were to request IVF, in my city the NHS would pay for three cycles, and I would be old enough to make that choice. But not old enough to choose NOT to have kids, and to want to take responsibility for that, and to not have to worry about falling pregnant and having an abortion.
2) when my uncle told me that I would not understand the concept of love until I held my newborn baby. Excuse me? YOU might be that shallow but I love my partner with all my heart and soul – I would die to save him, but no, thats not love coz i didnt give birth to him (obviously, that would be all kinds of wrong)
3)the fact that the NHS will pay for IVF and fertility treatment, but does not have enough money for some cancer treatments, or dementia treatments, or treatments for a myriad other number of horriic and life threatening conditions. Because, you know, it’s like a RIGHT or something to have kids, innit* (*enough sarcasm for you there?)
4) the fact that a breeder, ahem, woman who chooses to have kids is entitles to take 9 months off work at full pay, plus entitlment to loads of other benefits, for however many kids she has – 10 kids means ten lots of 9 months of work on full pay. But as a childfree person I cannot take a 9 month paid sabbatical from work. what I can do is hand in my notice and pay for myself – you can’t even claim benefits in that situation as you would be “volantarily unemployed”. But to have a child is a life choice, just as taking 9 months off to travel, or write a novel, or learn to ski or whatever is. so why shouldnt we be entitled to some time off? were paying the tax, and taking very little out of the system – no extra benefits, tax credits, public funding for NHS natal care, education etc.
5) attitudes in the workplace – I worked in one place where a woman who had been there a year took 6 months (paid) sick leave while she underwent IVF treatment. She then took 9 months leave on full pay for maternity leave. She came back to work for one month and then announced she was3 months pregnant again and would be taking her entire maternty leave and allowance. Around this time my dad was diagnosed with terminal cancer. I asked if I could reduce my hours to 4 days a week. Absolutely not, was the answer. When I pointed out the unfairness of the situation re breedy woman I received a rather nasty dressing down. I handed in my notice a few days later, spent the time with my late father ad am now unemployed. Still, better than working for that bunch of idiots.
6) a recent thing – people telling me that if I had a baby maybe it would be the reincarnation of my dead father. Er, right…and if that even was the case, why would I want to do that? why would it make a difference? and giving birth to your father…? WTF?? (I perhaps know some crazy folk)
7) My crazy vaguely ethnic super religious relatives, who even in 2009 believe that a woman should marry young, forego university, set up home and make babies. Any job opportunity is considered a stop-gap for the period of time until I drop a sprog. Despite telling them I am not having kids they refuse to believe me.
9) The MIL (although she is much better now) who seemed to think that us saying we didnt want kids was a way of saying “we wish we had never been born and mock your life choices”, which is clearly a stupid thing to think. Things are muchly improved, though I think she is pinning her bets on my BIL now!
OK, thats quite a few things, and I am sre theres more. But yeah, GRRRR and all that
@ners – I hear you on the mat leave. I try not to think about it, because right now I could do with even half that amount of leave. In fact, I hear you on all of those… hope sharing them here got them somewhat off your mind.
Something I’m interested to know is how relationships work (if they do) where one person is childless and the other is childfree. For example, if a relationship has broken up over the childless person’s infertility and they then meet a childfree person…
Would the childless person resent the childfree person’s happy acceptance of a child free life? Would the childfree person feel guilty for finding joy in all the things that the childless person finds sad?
This is just a hypothetical question, but it’s one I find interesting.
My OH has always been absolutely childfree, but when we first got together I was probably sway-able (although I was also very young and naive and dint realise there was another option)
Some health problems I was having at the time led to a laporoscopy and many scans, blood tests etc and one of the things that came up as a result is that I am probably infertile anyway. As soon as I find out I just kind of thought “well, thats that decision made then”, realised that I didnt feel sad about it (elated was more accurate) and was genuinely surprised that I was offered counselling to “come to terms” wth the situation.
Unfortuntely, I was later told that I am probably not infertile, but now I cant get sterilised. Gah!!
anyway, I know that doesnt quite answer your question, but it was a simliar situation.
Although I gues you could say it wasnt really as I was childfree at heart.
Ah, I’ll shut up now
The conversation here is just amazing! Keep it going. I’ve been reading them all… and as soon as I can will be back to comment on a few more.
My rant…. Ever notice how the childed are so quck to criticise because “Our kids will be supporting you in your old age by paying for your pension” but fail to see the hypocrisy in that statement? They’re quite happy to use the taxes of the childfree in the form of all the entitlements they can claim from the government simply because they’re parents!
Not only that – but have they failed to notice that while they are spending every cent they earn on new toys and kids shoes, WE are putting that money to good use through investments and savings – which will support us in our old age?
I won’t be relying on any government pension in my old age – I’ll have enough of my own money saved up – because I actually think about my future instead of just letting it happen!
I have another off-topic–topic, or more specifically quotation. I’m reading “We Need to Talk About Kevin” by Lionel Shriver, an amazingly brilliant novel about what happens when motherhood goes to hell in a handbag. I highly recommend it to anyone who hasn’t already read it.
Anyway, one of the many great observations that the main character Eva makes about parenthood is this:
“Yet if there’s no reason to live without a child, how could there be with one? To answer one life with a successive life is simply to transfer the onus of purpose to the next generation; the displacement amounts to a cowardly and potentially infinite delay. Your children’s answer presumably will be to procreate as well, and in doing so to distract themselves, to foist their own aimlessness onto their offspring.”
Thank you, Ms. Shriver! I have had this same thought so many times, mostly with regards to my husband’s culture. He was born and raised in southern Europe and from what I have observed generation upon generation of his family members get married young, have children right away, save every nickel to build a home/homes for those children who, as soon as they are old enough, will get married and have children and start the process all over again. Really? Is that all there is? It’s like churning out widgets on an assembly line.
so true. “you should have kids to leave a legacy”. er… they probably won’t be contributing to the world in any positive way – they’ll be too busy having their own kids! i might as well do something constructive with my OWN life instead of expecting my kids to do it for me.
i was talking about this with a friend who listed some things he wanted for his kids. things like getting them into reading earlier, sports, various stuff that his parents didn’t do with him. eventually he said “you know what i think it comes down to with you? you’re confident, well adjusted, happy – you probably just feel like you got it right the first time. you don’t NEED kids to fix your mistakes.”
indeed.
We’re spending Christmas alone this year and I’m so excited! It’ll be just me, my husband and our pets.
I really dislike Christmas and we’ve wanted to make the break for years. I actually envy people who don’t have the family pressure. My mom is very sappy and emotional about things. I guess I’ve never really cared about holidays. Plus with several family gatherings and all of the traveling, it’s not enjoyable at all.
This year we’re going to relax at home by ourselves on Christmas, for the first time ever. I’m almost 40, it’s time we had a holiday to ourselves.
Lisa–I cannot name one person beyond my sister in law who had children because he/she loved the idea of nurturing and teaching and caring for them. Everyone I know bar none had them to make up for some deficit either in their relationship with their mate or in their childhood or because that’s what either their families or society expected of them. People who are complete, confident, happy and well adjusted as your friend described you, aren’t looking for filler or baby as compensation. Why fix what isn’t broken?
I’d also like to point out to all of these folks who rattle on about family values, the importance of family, children are the future, family legacy, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah–the divorce rate is approx. 50% in the U.S. There’s a legacy to pass down to your children–emotional damage. Just sayin….
I totally agree, and I suspect it’s the fitting in with society thing.
On that note, I was just reading a news article on a website (forget which one) which had 2 ads for other articles up the top.
The first said “Life sucks, and it’s society’s fault”, and the second said “Don’t forget to have kids”.
I am not joking. Ohhh dear. They just don’t get it do they!
Yes, parents don’t seem to realise these days that they actually have to “parent”. FFS!!!! I was at a girlfriend’s place for a coffee the other day after she finished work and she put her little boy’s dinner in the oven (he’s nearly 3) when he started shouting and yelling at her. She asked him what was wrong and he shouted at her that he wanted pizza for dinner. She came and sat down next to him and cuddled him and said “It’s ok don’t cry we can have pizza. Mummy will ring up and order pizza for you”. And yes, this kid is f*!!@# brat and she actually WONDERS WHY!! She would never admit it to me but I get the impression she regrets having a kid. I think it’s an intuition that us childfree have – we can usually spot when someone regres it.
Lisa–Your friend’s comments about things that he wants for his kids is interesting. I know two men who recently became father’s who have made similar comments. One said that his father was “the worst ever” and the other said he raised himself. Both seem to want to relive their own childhood years through their kids.
Often the childfree are hit with the comment, “you must have had an unhappy childhood”. Truth is many who choose to reproduce had unhappy lives as children and are somehow trying for a do-over and in the process revisiting the sins of the father upon their own offspring. Let’s assume that the grand experiment of working out your issues through the parenting process doesn’t work–guess who suffers. What was that word again that gets lobbed at us all of the time? Oh, yeah–selfish. Hunh.
My partner made a comment about how I should just have his babies and if I still hate it once they’re born, I can leave and he’ll take care of them.
Great, nice to know the man I want to marry considers me a walking test tube.
And I’m sure the kids will be totally fine with mummy leaving during their infancy and then rocking up in their 20s and going “oh hey, you turned out well, nice work”.
Did you ever ask your partner why he would want his children (the ones that are so important to him) to have an absent mother–either physically or mentally? Or why he would want you to endure pregnancy when that is not something you want to do? Does he see you carrying his child as a testament of your love for him? Because if he just wants a child, there are many who are already here that need homes.
If you went along with this scenario and did hate it, which seems pretty likely given that you don’t want kids, is he prepared to quit his job to be the caretaker? Has he thought about what day to day child care involves? Because typically men say they will share in the parenting duties, but at the end of the day, the reality is that woman take care of the children and manage the bulk of the house work–even if they work full time.
And, if he plays Mr. Mom—that means someone needs to make enough money to support the family. Who will do that if you leave? It seems like this is a majorly flawed plan, which I’m sure you have pointed out to him. The biggest flaw is that you don’t want kids and wouldn’t be happy raising them so why would someone who cares for you wish you such an unhappy existence?
It sounds like you have a very challenging situation on your hands. I wish you the best in resolving it.
I’ve just read a very well written, balanced, insightful and fascinating read that is not necessarily relevant to everyone here (it focuses on the childless by circumstance rather than the childfree). It’s Leslie Cannold’s “What, No Baby?”. In it, she suggests that what many women consider a “choice” is in fact a decision, not always made voluntarily, based on certain unfortunate truths in society. A lot of reasons for not wanting kids that I see on this site are discussed.
The best bit is that she treats childfree and childless people as completely different groups and makes NO attempt to belittle the choices of the childfree. Rather, she points out the difference between a childfree person’s choice versus choices made by some childfree women who might have chosen differently under other circumstances.
I definitely recommend it, if only for interest’s sake. It’s beautifully written, intelligent and fascinating. For me it was also quite challenging and helped me to pare back the many reasons I don’t want kids, to get to the core reasons. I came away from it feeling more certain of my decision than ever, but also much more informed and better armed.
More info here: http://www.cannold.com/books/what-no-baby/
My subject is the fear of old age. But not in a way of – who is going to take care of me when I am old. It’s more about the fear of loneliness when my husband passes away. Statistically, women live longer than men do, and he is already 10 years older than me. Of course, that doesn’t mean anything, however, it is definitely a pretty big possibility.
I got a feeling from different CF people that this topic is almost a taboo in the CF world, meaning, it’s not cool to admit that you might have this fear; it’s almost like we should all be above it. But we are human, and it’s human to have fears. This one is mine.
I am not saying I want to pop one out because of this fear, of course not. All I am saying is that I have this fear of me being an old lonely woman…I guess I’ll have to acquire 10 cats LOL And yes, I might be lucky and have tons of friends but seriously, I doubt it. I am a pretty social person and I have plenty of friends how, however, I recognize that with age, it gets harder and harder to develop new relationships. I realize this is something I’ll just have to deal with but I wonder if I am the only one?
I know this is an old thread, but this is an important issue in the U.S. right now. I CANNOT believe the way that Republicans are trying to weasel their agenda around procreation into the universal healthcare bill:
“Under the Stupak-Pitts abortion ban in the House-passed health care reform bill (and similar amendments pending in the Senate), women would not be covered for abortions – even medically necessary abortions – despite spending their own money to purchase insurance coverage.
Anyone who bought insurance through the more affordable public option would also be banned from getting coverage for abortion services, even if their own money was used to buy insurance.”
The thing I find fascinating and completely hypocritical is that the Republicans are opposed to what they interpret as Obama creating a welfare state. Okay, what happens when women who cannot afford to properly care for a child, cannot terminate a pregnancy? Who cares for them? Well, apparently no one. One in five children in the U.S. lives in poverty. One in seven families does not have the resources to feed their children. I think we need to focus on taking care of the people who are already here instead of worrying about promoting the creation of more starving and abused souls for the kingdom of heaven. It’s called quality of life. I am beyond tired of people encouraging others to have children when they have no real knowledge of whether they can care for them or not. ARRRGGHHH! It’s stupid and it’s irresponsible!
Of course they are using abortion as an issue to bring universal health care to a screeching halt–because that is how they operate. If the likes of Sarah Palin is ever elected President in the U.S. I will pack my bags and move to Canada or Europe within 48 hours.
Oh no, you reminded me of my biggest fear – Palin running for president and winning! The fact that this lunatic became a political figure in the first place is a total shame. It actually made me ashamed for this country during the elections.
I am totally pro-choice and I agree that abortion should be covered by insurance when it’s medically necessary. The fact that they wouldn’t do that is outrageous. Didn’t one of the states pass the law that even if a woman is a victim of rape or incest, she couldn’t get an abortion? I believe that happened a couple of years ago.
However, when it’s not medically necessary (or a case of rape or incest), I don’t think insurance needs to cover it. I guess I see that as a personal issue. I had an abortion, and it never occured to me that anybody would pay for it but me and boyfriend.
A majority of insurance companies cover this medical procedure now–many women who go to Planned Parenthood to terminate unintended pregnancy are covered by insurance. It’s also rather ironic to note that until last week the insurance provided to the employees of the Republican National Committee covered abortion as a medical procedure. Funny, that. The Republicans are simply trying to make women’s access to health care a political issue–don’t vote for this bill because women will just use it to have unnecessary abortions. Who decides what is necessary? My congressman? Really?! Health care reform should improve women’s lives not interfere in their ability to get health care and they need–nor take away access to a procedure that they currently have access to through existing insurance. They’ll start weasel wording the language in the bill and then say that they’ll pay for medically necessary abortions but then they’ll make the definition of medically necessary so narrow that it will apply to no one.
A woman facing an unintended pregnancy should be able to decide for herself what is best for her and her family. If universal healthcare limits access to this procedure then you start down the slippery slope of making it cost prohibitive for women paying out of pocket and also limit the number of doctors who will perform the procedure and then we overturn Roe vs. Wade which is what the religious right is really after (they fund a great many republican politicians). My tax dollars will go toward universal health care and I am not signing up to pay for something that strips away an option that many women currently have through their insurance plans. Again, I ask the question, who is going to pay to feed to children? The ban needs to be struck from the bill.
I see your point.
I broke up with my boyfriend last night over this. It was awful. We were talking about how neither of us can really let go because this is always in the back of our minds, and he said that neither of us is ever really going to feel fulfilled. We talked it over, gently, kindly, and we broke up holding hands and crying for god’s sake. (Ok he wasn’t crying but I was doing enough for both of us, and he seemed to be struggling to keep it in).
I know it’s the right decision and I love him enough that I want him to have everything he wants, and that means children, but god it’s hard to walk away from someone who is perfect in every way except for the one single thing in the world that can’t be compromised on.
I really thought that by now (almost a year) I’d have found things about him that I don’t like and that would make it easier, but nope, he’s basically all I’ve ever wanted. Ouch.
It’s weird, in a way it’s easier than any other breakup because there’s no anger or bitterness, but it’s also so much harder for the same reason.
Anyway, I know other people here have been through breakups like this before and that some of you have gone on to find someone else. I’m glad this blog is here, there are very few people in my life who will understand this. They’ll all lecture me and tell me I’ll regret it, change my mind, that I’ve let a good man go and I’ll never find one like him again, and it’s going to be so hard because a big part of me suspects that I won’t, but I know that there is ONE thing that would have been harder than living my life without him…
…and that’s having kids with him.
Speaking of overpopulation–this fantastic org is running a campaign now to hand out endangered species condoms to remind people that we share the planet with other creatures, some of which are being wiped out thanks to our “NEED” to procreate. Anyone in the U.S. who wants to hand out condoms on campus, the mall, your neighborhood etc. you have until Feb. 1 to sign up. They may even send them to Canada….
Learn more here:
http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/campaigns/overpopulation/index.html