Childfree? Noisy Kids Upstairs? You May Be Asked to Suck it Up

by Britgirl on October 12, 2009

My thanks to a reader, (let’s call her “Sally”) who sent in this very interesting article and link. As the Sally says, it’s probably not unique to the childfree.

I’ve made few if any changes to it because it didn’t need any changes. So anyone who thinks it’s “whining” just look away now and don’t read on.

I also read the article at the link below. And what I will say is this:

I was brought up in an apartment. We were six kids. The walls were pretty thick. But my parents were ALWAYS mindful of the neighbours – and as such if we were rowdy we got a telling off and were told to stop being noisy. None of this “be tolerant cause children need to be children rubbish.” What the..? Neighbours have every right to peace and quiet and you, dear parent, are responsible for seeing your kids understand that and abide by it.  Of course that means you must be willing to control, sorry parent them since kids go as far as they are allowed to go. If you can’t or won’t, move out and get a house. Apartments are not for everyone. They are for those who accept that everyone has the right to a peaceful abode.

I am thankful I live in a condo now where it looks like there are no kids. We’ve lived here for 5 years. If there are any kids they are very quiet as we never hear them. So everyone’s happy.  I must add we do have strict noise controls in the condo rules. Everyone signs up to them and our property manager takes all complaints very seriously. I just don’t understand people who seem to think everything should be relegated to the whim of kids’ noise. Having kids is not the benchmark for “tolerance”  and said “tolerance” is often a thinly-veiled order to “suck it up, buttercup – not our fault you’re childfree.”

Anyway, enough from me… for now. Read what Sally says and share your thoughts.

Sally’s story starts here:

“My husband and I live in a brownstone condo in NYC. With the exception of the nutters who moved in with their screaming child and then moved out within nine months, for six years we have enjoyed a blissfully quiet, childfree existence neighbor-wise.

That is until one month ago. A family with a toddler moved into the unit above us
and as God is my witness it sounds like a herd of buffalo up there. Their child seems to be possessed by the devil as he cannot walk, but only runs back and forth and back and forth on HARD WOOD FLOORS, dropping his little toys, which are
made of cement, as he goes.

This fun fest starts  at 7 a.m. and continues to 8 p.m. when they put him to bed.  I work from home and my quality of life has plummeted.  I’m so stressed I can barely focus and I feel like I’m being held hostage by a three year old.

To make matters far worse, Ms. stay-at-home mom has her girlfriends over EVERY afternoon from 2 until 5 pm and they brings their kids who also run around, scream and drop things.

Yesterday there were FOUR strollers in the hallway. I honestly thought my head was going to explode
from the noise. I mean it’s not like there aren’t at least ten coffee shops within two blocks from our building, yet they must turn our building into a daycare center. GET A LIFE!!!

Because we are civilized human beings, last week we left them a VERY nice note introducing ourselves and  explaining about the lack of soundproofing in pre-war buildings and how the running shakes our entire apartment.  We asked if they would be kind enough to put down rugs and rug pads to absorb the shock on the hard wood floors. When we moved in our downstairs neighbor mentioned that she could hear our cat running up and down, so we put down thick pads and thick rugs in the main rooms, including the kitchen because we are not jackasses. And I can say with a great degree of confidence that a 10 lb. cat makes far less noise than a 3 year old human.

In our case we have been ignored by our neighbors and now we have to take on a battle royale. I’m sure that because it’s a child making the noise they think we should just suck it up–because that’s how kids are. Or they’ll label us child-haters or worse. To me, noise is noise and I don’t care who is making it–
but I certainly don’t think you should get a free pass because it’s a kid. I see this as just another example
of the entitled parent phenom. We actually pay more than they do to live here, but yet because they
have a poor harmless child, in their minds, their rights supersede ours. They moved into a quiet building with
an existing community of quiet owners and apparently we must accommodate them. So now we either move, which
means selling which could take months and taking a loss in a crappy market or we sue or we report them to the city. In any case, it will be a major stress fest on both sides and undoubtedly unpleasant all because they can’t put down carpet and tell little Johnny to walk instead of run.  GRRRRR.

In my desperation to find a solution, I discovered this older article in the New York Times which
I thought you might find interesting and may be relevant to some of your readers. Because now all the young parents
want to maintain their edgy NYC persona they refuse to move out to the suburbs, even though it would
actually be better for their children because they would have space to run around. I don’t know what it is
like in Canada or London but as you can read in the article, children are becoming one of the most frequent cause of noise complaints in NYC.  In a very noisy city, that is a pretty frightening development.

I particularly enjoyed (sarcasm) the comment by the mother in the article who said that being a parent makes you more sensitive and understanding. As childfree we hear that all the time, but I’ve never heard it applied in this context. I think my situation is a perfect example of how truly selfish people with children can be. Because really in what way is she sensitive if she doesn’t understand how  she is disturbing her neighbors and that they have
rights too?
I know that she means that another mother would understand that life isn’t always perfect and kids will be kids. But as is clear in the case outlined in the article,  she is not being particularly sensitive or tolerant of her neighbors who chose to not have children and have different kinds of lives. Her sensitivity extends to her offspring. Oh, how very self-sacrificing!!  In my mind that doesn’t really count.What would be self-sacrificing would be if she said, “Hmmm, because I have a child maybe I can’t live in a charming pre-war brownstone because of the type of architecture used to construct these buildings since my son runs around like a demented and evil Chuckie doll every day and I have no intention of controlling his behavior or actually parenting him.” Instead, I’ll make my neighbors sacrifice for a child that is not theirs!  Awesome!!

Plus, I can GUARANTEE that if she had someone above her waking up her little darling from his nap with blasting hip-hop music her tolerance and sensitivity would undoubtedly be imperceptible to the offending party. I would also bet if she couldn’t earn a living because she couldn’t concentrate in her own home, she would probably feel remarkably less sensitive about noisy children.

While my comments and this article may be construed as “whining” by at least one of your readers, it was on my mind today :( and I wanted to share the story with you as yet another way those with children try to get over on the childfree.

Sorry for the rant and thank you so much for listening and for all that you do!”

Sally’s story ends here.

Thanks to “Sally” for both sharing – and writing this article. It must be a nightmare situation to be in.

Here’s the article link – I read the article: The noise children make is a growing source of complaints

And here’s the comment from the West Side Mother:

“I think you become a more sensitive person when you have a kid — you have to become more tolerant and understanding,” the Upper West Side mother said. “You kind of realize that life is not as tidy as you’d like it to be.”

My response to that? You don’t need to have a kid to be tolerant and understanding. And frankly I find it neither tolerant nor understanding if you expect other people to live with noise created by your offspring. My own parents never thought their kids had the right to disturb others just because we were kids.

What are your thoughts? As always feel free to share on the blog.

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{ 212 comments }

Michelle December 22, 2012 at 9:58 pm

I’m willing to bet $100 that every single person whining about children being noisy, DON’T HAVE KIDS!! Am I right? You people need to take a step back and realize that kids should be ALLOWED to be kids! Not everyone can live in their own home, because let’s face it, not everyone is well off these days to buy a home! This atrocity makes me sickening to read! I am willing to bet, if you EVER have kids of your own someday (which it sounds to me like you all hate children and you are just bitter because of that reason) you would not think that way! You people need to give your head a shake, this is just spewing ridiculousness in my opinion! If you don’t like it, then move to your own house, plain and simple! God people, you really need to GROW UP and stop expecting kids to be adults! It’ll never happen, but keep dreaming if you must!

Britgirl December 22, 2012 at 10:19 pm

And I’m willing to bet that YOU seem to be unable to read, either the rules of this blog or any of the posts. Please get off the blog if you don’t like what is written here. Just don’t come here telling anyone here what to think, nobody here is interested in what you think – which is way off the mark anyway. Any more of your crap I’m deleting your posts. Read the rules and be courteous – or find another place to sound off with your ignorance. You’ve been warned.

Laura January 6, 2013 at 12:02 am

Love it.

Avi December 23, 2012 at 11:50 am

I personally love children and while dececating my life to a career to entertain and inspire children, I am still in debate if I want children my self. When I was a child, I was very noisy and ill behaved, but I was never told this was ok. My parents, bless them, took years and years teaching me to respect others, be considerate of people’s feelings, to listen to adults and learn to sit still and be quieter. What I see now-a-days is that people forget that a large part of being a child is learning how to become a proper adult one day. If the child is let loose and told to do what ever and that they are held to different set of rules then adults, they will resist growing up and acting mature cause will continue to want to be an exception to the rules of common kindness. 

My parents knew very well that kids must have a chance to be kids. But they where also aware that there are other people in the world who deserve the same respect they ask of others. So when I needed to run around, they took me out side, if I was being to noisy I was told to quite down. I learned respect for others and even to this day I dare not make a peep in my apartment between 9pm to 9am for the respect of anyone who might be sleeping. And even then I keep my voice and music low because I learned I am not an exception to the rules of respect and there are lots of people in the world. 

 Has it dawned on you to you that the folks with out children where a.) paying more and b.) there first. It seems a bit selfish to force everyone else to move out. The child free folks didn’t go “GTFO” or anything horrid, they simply requested the parents put down carpets, not a hard or taxing thing to do on the parents part. They were not asked to change their entire way of life. Now it’s true not all people can afford to live in a house, especially if they have children to take care of, but if that’s the case, it’s really important that the parent take extra precaution not to disturb the neighbors. Like this one couple who passes put ear plugs to people on an airplane because they new their baby would start crying at high altitudes. 

If I am being noisy or messy or anything, I will stop or find away to do it do it won’t bother them as much. Kindness is not a bother or a burden and should not be taught they are such. 

Now I take it you have children and bless you for dedicating your life to such a noble cause as raising the future generation, but please, realize how important that job is. The lessons you teach will impact every other generation after that.

If I decide to be a mother, I will teach them there is a time a place for play and there is a time to be quiet too. I will teach them not to assume others tell them to stop something because they are “mean”, being “unfair,” “bitter”, or are “bullies,” as I once believed as a child myself,  but because they might be getting a wee but carried away and to tone to back a bit. 

Please, we all live in this world together, learn to respect others and the world will be a better place. And respect works both way. 

Avi December 23, 2012 at 11:52 am

I apologize for the typos. I need to work on my English.

Laura January 5, 2013 at 11:58 pm

Well, let me tell you, I am sick and tired of all you people who claim ‘kids must be kids’. So you must be one of the irresponsible, obnoxious and arrogant moms out there.

Kids can be kids, but not at the cost of others inconvenience. Just because you had a child does not mean you should impose others with inconvenience. That is yours and yours alone.

I agree with the writer. It is the parents responsibility to teach kids to be careful and not create noise. Kids are smart and they adapt faster. You will notice when parents make noise, kids will remind them by saying ‘mom..quiet’.

My parents taught me to be very considerate and that we should never be a burden for others. As a result, now I am that way.

It is the same parents who are reckless and expect the neighbors to accomodate their inconvenience turn out to be unapproachable as well. So what does that tell you.

Finally, Michelle your words ‘kids should be allowed to be kids’ should be rephrased as ‘kids should be allowed to be kids by teaching them to be considerate to others’. Let kids know that they can run only when they go to a play area or to a mall. Does your kids play base ball inside your home? No. Why. There is a place for it.

Bottomline: You need to factor neigbors conveniences into the equation. They deserve the same amount of peace and quiet as you do.

- Mom of 2 kids who raised them in a condo.

Jeff Swanton February 26, 2013 at 9:30 pm

For those parents who think everyone should suck up all your me takes should think again. It is no ones fault but yours that you can not raise YOUR kids in a house. Your kids should be respectful of others. Disrupting piece and quiet of others is rude and inconsiderate just like the parents who think we all suck up their mistakes in life.

Stephanie March 17, 2013 at 1:39 pm

Well Michelle, you just lost 100 dollars. I have a child and one on the way and I have neighbors who have 3 kids and they jump around like its a play ground upstairs. I think if you have children and want to live above people then you have to consider their feelings. I bet if it was the other way around they will be complaining about us as well. I have alot of consideration for my neighbors. Any parent can teach their children to stop running in the house. You can take them to the park, that’s why they created public parks for.

Julie April 3, 2013 at 4:19 pm

I agree completely !!! ty for being an honest person !!

Santa May 13, 2013 at 9:02 pm

Shut the fuck up you stupid bitch. I’m willing to bet you are a lose white with four kids from multiple baby daddies and you live off welfare. Just because YOU choose to create little spawns doesn’t mean other people have to deal with the noise the little bastards make. People like YOU should be sterilized.

BigB June 11, 2013 at 8:53 pm

How is it ridiculous for a person to expect to sleep at night in their own home? According to the terms of every lease I’ve ever signed, no one has the right to disturb the livability of other tenants, making their home uninhabitable. Noise is noise, whether it’s a drum set from 2-4 am or your child running back and forth, screaming, and banging on walls. Grow up, indeed.

Stella June 11, 2013 at 11:24 pm

Michelle said “This atrocity makes me sickening to read” Does anyone know what that means because I don’t. I’ll agree that her comment is sickening, ill informed, self serving and ignorant. But then she seems to be communicating in some bizarre variation of English so maybe that’s the problem. I think the big disconnect is that in Michelle’s mind children being children means–running wild without restraint. However, that is a luxury allowed only to parents who are raising children in a single family home. When you share walls, floors and ceilings with other people who also pay rent, you just don’t get to live any way you want. You can try, but your neighbors will resent you for disturbing their peace. That’s a simple fact and in no way makes them monsters or evil or atrocious. They don’t resent you because they’re selfish jerks, they resent you because you are acting like one. Though of course demonizing someone else is so much easier than changing your own behavior or modifying your children’s behavior.

As indicated by some parents who have posted here, some children are offered guidance by the adults in their lives who actually care that they grow up with manners and consideration for others. No one here expects “kids to be adults” but it would be very helpful if their parents acted like adults. Because one can’t afford to buy a house doesn’t mean that one can’t afford to teach children how to behave. And honestly, if you have children and don’t plan to offer them any guidance on how to be decent citizens of the world then maybe you should get yourself a goldfish instead and spare the rest of us the agony of dealing with your badly behaved offspring.

heather black April 30, 2014 at 3:13 pm

“kids will be kids” is a bullshit excuse period. If parents think just because they have kids those kids can make all the noise they want to regardless of other people living in the same building as them is brain dead. I have 3 kids and have lived in apartments their entire childhood so they are pretty well versed on inside voices, no running etc. It’s called HAVING RESPECT which honestly does not exist anymore. I have a young couple living above me now with two little kids who do nothing but run, jump off of furniture , drop shit all day until 4am! It all boils down to the parents – if they are unwilling to tell their children to calm down and be quiet then it’s hopeless. In my case the “parents” are a couple of non working drink all day degenerate drug addicts who sponge off of the system and think they are able to do whatever they feel like doing for some fucked up reason. Instead of moving I call the landlord, I don’t give a shit what time it is – if her boil on the ass of society tenants want to let their kids jump off the bed at 2am and keep me up , she’s going to get up too :) maybe the landlord will grow a brain and get rid of these useless fucks but if she doesn’t I don’t care I’m moving soon into my own house with lots of acres and she can get her daily wake up calls from the new victims who move in here. Bottom line, if you have kids that make a hell’ish amount of noise on a daily basis and have no respect for other people you are sharing an apartment building with then you should just kill yourself and take those little bastards with you.

Fed Up with upstairs neighbors December 29, 2012 at 7:31 pm

You yeah you with the little brats running around like a bunch of monkeys in your upstairs apt!!! Grow up and have considerstion for the neighbor living below you. You have alot of nerve telling your downstairs neighbor to suck it up!! We have had enough of people like you that refuse to keep your children under control. I am a mom of 3 and at no time are my kids permitted to run , stomp AND act like loonies when in the house and especially when living in an upstairs apt take your kid/ kids to a playground and let them get their energy out . You as a parent should be ashamed of yourself because all your showing your kids to be is out of control!!!
Step up and show consideration for your downstairs neighbor cause believe me we don’ t like it and we are definetly NOT going to suck it up !

Fed Up with upstairs neighbors December 29, 2012 at 7:33 pm

You yeah you with the little brats running around like a bunch of monkeys in your upstairs apt!!! Grow up and have considerstion for the neighbor living below you. You have alot of nerve telling your downstairs neighbor to suck it up!! We have had enough of people like you that refuse to keep your children under control. I am a mom of 3 and at no time are my kids permitted to run , stomp AND act like loonies when in the house and especially when living in an upstairs apt take your kid/ kids to a playground and let them get their energy out You as a parent should be ashamed of yourself because all your showing your kids to be is out of control!!!
Step up and show consideration for your downstairs neighbor cause believe me we don’ t like it and we are definetly NOT going to suck it up !

Reallynoneofyourbussiness January 7, 2013 at 4:27 am

While I can see the argument with older kids, toddlers can and will be loud randomly. Sometimes in the middle of the night. They’ll have a bad dream and wake up practically screaming, they’ll be told no and throw a temper tantrum, they’ll run around the house even after being told no and receiving a standard spanking for the 10th time that night, and the list goes on. You can’t pretend to understand until you, yourself have kids. Remembering what your parents told you when you were a kid yourself, is not even remotely the same as actually living through parenthood. Let me tell you from personal experience, babies and toddlers are loud. They will randomly be loud. They can only understand so much at that age, and you can’t spank them raw. First off, it’s abuse, second it’s not their fault. It’s not the parent’s fault either. Some kids are louder than others. Some kids have more energy. Arguing that a kid will run out of energy at the park is ridiculous. I can take my 2 year old to the park for 5 hours and he’ll still be running around the house when we get home. Until kids reach 3-4 and learn to understand that other people have feelings as well it’s extremely difficult to get them to be quiet all the time. It’s amazing how many people complain about loud children, only to have them later in life and completely eat their words. Kids are loud. Some parents are neglectful and when children are older they definitely need to learn to be quiet at night, but if your neighbor has a baby or toddler. Get over it. Seriously. It’s not their fault. It’s not the kid’s fault. It’s life. Either move or suck it up. Legally, noise ordinances don’t apply to babies and toddlers.

Stella January 7, 2013 at 5:02 pm

Here’s a thought–why don’t you stop playing the self-serving victim when you are the perpetrator and “get over” thinking it’s okay to disturb the peace of your neighbors? You are just another tedious example of an entitled parent who thinks her rights are more important than the rights of others. And having a noisy child in your home is YOUR life clearly, and thankfully not the life of those who post here. Who are you to decide what someone else should tolerate? The onus is on the noise maker to move into a dwelling that prevents the noise they make from disturbing the neighbors on a daily basis–WHATEVER that noise is.

Leases protect tenants rights to quiet enjoyment of their homes–they do not protect the rights of those preventing that quiet enjoyment. That said, it would seem the person(s) in violations of the lease should move out not the person abiding by the housing guidelines. And guess what dear, people want the quiet that they pay for and are promised contractually and they don’t give a rat’s ass about your kids or your needs. That’s also life.

Not to mention that noise ordinances vary by city and state and how many complaints the mgmt company or landlord are willing to tolerate. There is more than one way to skin a cat. The hideously rude, nasty, peasant like entitled parents with their stomping children in our building had so many noise complaints filed against them that the mgmt jacked their rent way beyond market rate to force them out. Thankfully, it worked and we’ve seen the back of them–off to torture someone else no doubt with their swinish behavior. Interestingly, while the indifferent parents were deaf to the complaints of their neighbors about the noise their kids made–they complained mightily and argued in the hallway (classy!) with another couple with kids who moved in above them. Ironic, yet not surprising, how the noise they made was completely acceptable until they had to experience the same torture themselves. Geez, why couldn’t they just suck it up? Ha!

Britgirl January 7, 2013 at 8:36 pm

Two words. Thank you!

Stella January 8, 2013 at 7:50 pm

Glad to be of service! How peculiar that parents come to a child free blog to vent about the problems that people have with their children making noise. Sort of illogical isn’t it? Explains a lot about how they view the world–and why they continue to infuriate their neighbors. ;)

Ronn May 10, 2013 at 11:17 am

I was raised in a household with five children. All of us young. It was a wood framed structure and our landlord lived below us. My Mother and Father never received any complaints of us disturbing them. I raised three daughters. Never did any of them cause or run through the house and create disturbances. Those of you who think people need “TO SUCK IT UP” need to go and learn some manners. We paid our dues and now we have to pay for people who are inconsiderate?

My advice? Call child services and tell them you believe that those noisy kids are going to inflict harm on themselves by maybe falling and hitting their heads someplace. It is neglectful for any parent to allow their children to run around unabated constantly.

My children are grown and raising children of their own. They are teaching those children respect for others. If you cannot keep your child under control and stop them from being noisy, maybe you should move into the woods where no one will complain. You are rude and it reflects on the values you yourself grew up with.

aga January 23, 2013 at 11:18 am

U hate kids!!!

Antony February 15, 2013 at 5:08 pm

no u

zeekaja January 26, 2013 at 7:56 am

I would probably have sympathized with this blog a few years ago, because the theory of how to bring up children, and the reality, are two entirely separate things. You can try to get children to be quiet, but children tend to run everywhere and play loudly. Especially when you have more than one… especially twins!

I worry all the time about our neighbours, and how much noise we make; but it makes me stressed, I end up shouting at my children, and it creates a pretty horrible living situation.

Sympathy on both sides is needed.

These are not just my children. And your neighbours’ children are not just theirs; they are the future generation. They are all our children. A more community-based spirit would certainly ease tensions.

Vanessa February 9, 2013 at 4:16 am

See Zeekaja, this is what seriously what I find offensive about you parents. You spout this crap about children belonging to everyone, they are the future generations etc, yet when people try to take this attitude, such as the couple who, reasonably I may add, tried to address the noise issue with the “parents” (breeders) upstairs, they didn’t like it. I’m sick of you damn parents having this attitude of children are the future, it takes a village to raise a child but when that village tries to address a child’s behaviour or talk to the parents, you parents take the gloves off and get aggressive because your “parenting” skills are being brought into question. Pick one or the other but stop changing the rules and goalposts when that village takes you and your children’s bad behaviour to task. Either parent your damn kids properly and teach them to show respect to other humans or shut your damn mouths and suck it up when that village gets pissed off at your poor parenting and badly behaved children. Yes, that’s right, suck it up!

Stella February 9, 2013 at 5:44 pm

Amen, Vanessa! It seems with some parents the village called “Selfish” that they inhabit only offers a one-way street. They want the village to look out for them and their kids but if members of the village expect something like say, common courtesy or human decency in return, all bets are off. As a neighbor I will go to great lengths to help and look out for people in my building because I think it’s the right thing to do. But if I get the sense that my kindness and caring are being taken for granted and there is no reciprocity with regard to my feelings and needs then my tolerance and understanding drops to zero. I have no need to be a martyr for the cause of some self-absorbed, selfish parent’s kids.

Stella January 27, 2013 at 12:50 am

A couple of things:

No one cares if you are sympathetic to the blog or not. You’re part of the problem so why would you be?

Do you really think that allowing children to make noise is a prerequisite for turning them into good, responsible citizens? If you read through the posts here you’ll find many contributions from parents who happen to agree that letting your kids run loose in an apartment is neither necessary nor desirable–for the kids or the neighbors. You don’t want to have to stress over parenting or teaching your kids so it’s easier for you to dump the responsibility on your neighbors to be more tolerant.

You seem to be under the impression that when people are disturbed in their homes by noise made from children to the point where they are losing sleep, can’t eat a meal or watch a movie in peace that they just need to open their hearts and think of their neighbor’s children with more community spirit. I’ll tell you what they’re thinking–they’re thinking about how much money they pay every month for a living space where they are at the mercy of other people who are making their daily existance a little slice of hell for absolutely no benefit. The odds that a kid who runs roughshod over his parents and does whatever he pleases is going to grow up to contribute anything of value to society is slim to nil anyway if that were a legitimate argument, which it is not–simply a manipulative, self-serving one.

If you like exercises in imagining, perhaps you should go stand in your neighbor’s apartment for five minutes while your kids are thundering over your head and get a taste of what it’s like and then imagine hearing that thumping for 4,5,6 or more hours a day–every day. But I’m guessing you don’t really care since you’re stuck with it on your end .

The first line of defense for sanctimonious parents is to call people who don’t like thumping over their heads, “kid haters”. What does hating noise have to do with hating kids? Surely you’re not that much of a simpleton? Do you honestly believe that because it’s kids it is somehow more palatable or easier to tolerate? Trust me, when your nerves are on edge and you can’t sleep because someone is bouncing a ball over and over above your head you are not thinking about how cute the kid is–nor would you be thinking that–if it wasn’t YOURS. The only time I’ve seen parents be sympathetic about kid noise is when their own kids make noise and they don’t have a leg to stand on to complain. Not one of the “victim” parents who post here ever suggests that they themselves should move so as not to disrupt a community of people who want to live in quiet.

You know what worries me about the future–when the current generation of kids with self-centered, entitled parents grows up to be just as bad as mommy and daddy if not worse. Nightmare!

Britgirl March 24, 2013 at 11:40 pm

Couldn’t have put it better myself. Thank you.

maria February 4, 2013 at 6:43 pm

I’m sorry but I’m a mother of a 7 yr old boy and one on the way. If I can control my son anyone can control their own kids. For example I have an immature single parent of two as a neighbor who has no sensitivity to the others. My downstairs neighbor ,who happens to be my landlord always asks me if everything is okay, because she never hears my son. Now that’s a problem.

Stella February 9, 2013 at 5:47 pm

You are fabulous Maria! My sister-in-law and my best friend who have five kids between them happen to agree with you. They also happen to be really cool, thoughtful women who are raising really cool, thoughtful, sensitive little kids. We need more like you all in the world!

Suffering February 10, 2013 at 12:10 am

I found this post by googling “toddler upstairs what to do” because my upstairs neighbors’ 2-year-old is driving me crazy. Generally speaking, their whole family are nuts (and I will spare you the details). I have talked to them face to face, left notes, banged on the ceiling, complained to the apartment manager, and nothing works. The manager basically refuses to deal with it, and when I talked to the parents, they gave me the “I have a toddler, suck it up!” attitude that is, in a way, even more insulting than the noise itself. I admit, I am on the brink of giving up. It’s ridiculous that rule-abiding tenants have to move out while rule-breaking folks get away with it. Having kids don’t give you extra rights, but sadly, it seems most people in this country think so. Hence the increasingly self-absorbed, inconsiderate/rude, and narcissistic society. I am planning to move — a top floor unit for sure this time!

jaylee February 23, 2013 at 10:58 am

I’m in the same predicament….the noise starts at 7am and ends at 2am when daddy gets home from work and they have dinner as a family, laughing together as a unit while me and my other half are miserable and have to wait for them to sleep for us to sleep. I confronted him the other day and his level of ignorance not only baffled me but it blatantly insulted me. What makes matters worse is that they are illegal immigrants, protected by the state, and calling authorities would do nothing but backfire on me. I work with children with “behavorial disorders”, who get kicked out of their daycares….they walk in the classroom, why can’t the 3 year old rhinocerus walk upstairs???? I’m thinking about knocking on walls at 4am and blasting music, then again, i’d hate to stoop to their level.

Lisa Harrington February 10, 2013 at 6:28 pm

I have the PERFECT solution–To all you moms who believe that your children have THE RIGHT to be loud in apartment complexes because “they can’t help it”–THEN PEOPLE WITH KIDS SHOULD ONLY LIVE IN APARTMENT BUILDINGS WHERE EVERY RESIDENT HAS KIDS! All you self righteous moms should have to be sujected to other loud obnoxious kids living above you, below you, and on every side of you; But you wouldn’t want that would you?–Because you’re hypocrits! Noo, you just loooove living among us ultra quiet, child-free people so you can reap the benefits our CHOICE to not have kids. But you selfish women deserve to live ONLY among other loud obnoxious kids because that’s fair. You’d probably cry your heads off if you had to hear other children’s loud screaming & pounding all day long and ruining your precious child’s sleep..Look, kids and toddlers don’t belong in f**king apartment complexes, ok …or at the very least, have the decency to rent basements or 1st floors only…You can rent a house for the same amount in the suburbs, so go there, your artsy hipster days are over–there’s nothing hip about a bunch of strollers in the hallway. Take your asses to the burbs.

There should be “Child-Free Apartments” and I think someone should have a LAWSUIT to demand that some apartments be child-free. Come on lawyers, its 2013: If seniors can have housing, then child-free adults should have housing saying no one under 18 allowed, period.

…To hell with all of you selfish moms for making everyone else pay for YOUR choices in life .You’re the one who spread your legs, you’re the one who f–cked a poor dude or had babies with a guy who can’t even afford to rent you a modest small house; or you’re the one who made the CHOICE to have babies out of wedlock despite having accsess to every birth control & options under the sun–BUT I DID NOT!–so why should I have to suffer for your dumb asss choices by losing my peaceful home?

But thank you to the moms who don’t act like these selfish cuntts try their best to make sure their children respect others right to live in peace and quiet–Thank you.

Stella February 11, 2013 at 6:47 pm

“You can rent a house for the same amount in the suburbs, so go there, your artsy hipster days are over–there’s nothing hip about a bunch of strollers in the hallway. Take your asses to the burb” Isn’t that the truth!

In most leases in my city you aren’t allowed to store your kid’s crap–or anything for that matter–in the common areas yet the parents and their lazy nannies used to use the entryway to our building as if it’s their own personal storage area. At one point we had 5 strollers, three scooters and a pile of kids clothes in the entry hall of our building. REALLY?? How is that okay? I live on a high floor and my husband and I who ride a few times a week can’t store our bikes in the lobby or anything else I would rather not carry up and down stairs. When the management told them to clear the hall there were many sulky and dirty looks (take respsonsibility for your own actions much?) directed at tenants without kids as if they were sure someone had complained. They are doing something in clear and direct violation of the lease yet they want special treatment that inconveniences their neighbors and is also against fire code.

1. If you can’t or don’t want to carry your belongings up and down stairs then don’t move into an apartment above street level. Duh? Didn’t you notice the stairs when you walked up them to see the apartment? Though I’m sure you thought–”Well that’s okay–we’ll just keep the stroller and scooters in the lobby–never stopping to think about anyone else but YOU!

2. If you don’t like storing your kid equipment in your own home–why do you assume your neighbors want to walk past and around it every day as if they live in some hideous annex to McDonald’s playland. How selfish can you get?

3. If your nanny can’t handle carrying a stroller up the stairs then maybe she should be in another line of work. Don’t you know your employee’s little gripes don’t take precedence over the rights of the PAYING tenants/owners in a building?

This kind of head up the arse behavior is rampant and this generation of parents wonders why there is so much hostility directed towards them. Yes, you can do exactly as you please since you believe you are all so important but please don’t be indignant and surprised if other people don’t like it. And for the love of God, stop believing all the media hype that you are special because you reproduced. No one cares–truly!

kathleen April 23, 2013 at 9:27 pm

Lisa……..what you wrote made me lmao! Great wording….all true! From what I can hear and peek out my window there is a single lady above me with 2 kids about 3 and 4. They’ve been hear about 1 month and are driving me crazy. I have to do something soon or I’ll go nuts.

Dom February 15, 2013 at 10:41 am

I work from home and have had the heard of tap dancing elephants above me for some time. I have had several run ins with my upstairs neighbour who has 3 children (its a one bed apartment!!!).
Our last encounter got quite heated until he eventually asked what i suggested he do. I started with rugs in the hall way and the room they seem to play in which happens to be above my office. He shrugged that off. I then explained that when i was growing up, i was raised to believe that when in a house “children should be seen and not heard”. If we wanted to go nuts, there was the garden, playground or park. A daily trip to one would keep us tired out. If the neighbours ever complained to my parents, we were punished with no questions asked as my parents were considerate. This went down like a tonne of bricks.
I now have children myself, i’m an uncle, i have 3 god children, i have a big dog and all of them know that in house is quiet time. If you can teach that to a 3 month old puppy, you can teach it to a toddler. If it’s not only me, but my brother and best friends who can achieve these results, then any old muppet can. My humble view is that the parents banging on about letting kids be kids, and who state that you just don’t know what its like having kids and community and blah blah blah are not in control. They do not understand the responsibility they have. The ‘community’ excuse is the worst. Yes they are the next generation and the future, but that is in 10 years time. Now they need their outside time, they need to sit, watch LEARN and understand their place in the world.

Don’t get me started about kids in supermarkets, trains, busses, and restaurants.

To cut a long story short, my war with the upstairs neighbour continues. The rest of all of our neighbours are sympathetic to my cause and have even joined forces with me. Heres what we do.

If we have a quiet day, they get nothing. If however their kids are out of control for more than an hour, we put on the heaviest metal music on full volume and take our kids to the park for an hour. We like to do this around bedtime for the kids upstairs. It’s working, which in one sense is a result, but in another is just terribly sad as the only way can get a result is by resorting to the most childish solution.

Pavla March 3, 2013 at 8:38 am

I must say I have never thought how much noisy my one child can be until a new neighbours moved above our flat with two kids. When I heard them drilling even at 10pm and their children running around I get scared if we are making the same noise as well for the neighbours downstairs. Next day I knocked at the neighbours doors downstairs and asked if me or my child is to loud and noisy. They have said that my child is ok, waking up at 8am no screaming 9am we are leaving cos I need to go to work and my baby to nursery coming back at 5pm then she will play on her own sitting nicely and only SOMETIMES will run but I am trying to teach her or play with her something else to let her forget about running. And then she will go sleep max. At 7.30pm. Weekends nearly same at 11am she will go for 2.5 hour nap (yes she is really sleeping that long) than nice lunch and hurray outside or to indoor play centre to jave a fun. And because we have carpets and sound proof floor, my neighbours are happy.
But I can’t really say the same things about flat above mine. I know kids running and especially if you will have kids two. They don’t have any carpets what so ever and when they are running or riding a pc chair on wheels from one corner to the other(new game which was introduce to us two days back) everything is shaking in here. I am still surprise that they haven’t dropped in to our apartment yet trough ceiling. I have tried to go upstairs and knock on the door but no one answered even when I could clearly hear kids running and shouting. So I left the nice note that I understand that they have got kids and they will shout and run but if they couldn’t do something for reducing it and not to ride in that chair. And if they could try to put some carpet on their nice new wooden floor.
If this one will not help I will need to complain somewhere else…

christine March 4, 2013 at 12:12 pm

Thank you for writing this out. It helped me. I had the same problem for over 12 months, and all they did was sent me flowers and a note of apology; but I don’t want them to keep saying sorry and do nothing about it. I had her number so sometimes when my head was about to explode I would send her a text of plea, and ask her to stop her kid from running and jumping and throwing toys on the hard wood floor. She would reply – 10mins, he will be in bed. SO SHIT!!!! So on Saturday night, I cut and paste some of what u wrote and tweaked it a bit. I told them they exactly how I feel and told them if I had the money, I would rent the apartment above them and make as much noise as their kid was making 7am to 10pm and would wake their kid up from his nap everyday. But I bought my apartment, so I can’t just move!!! And told them to put sound absorbing rugs down, other wise I will have get the council involved. I asked how can 2 people so educated be so uncivilised to want to torture their neighbour like this? I just want to thank you for writing up this post.

christine March 4, 2013 at 12:34 pm

If you live in a barbaric Asian City and have the same problem. Try this: (U need to stay up one or 2 nights.) I used to live in Asia, and the upstairs couple let their 3 year old run riots from 6am to 11pm – NO NAPS! They must be feeding him batteries, coffee & coke. If all modest and polite ways fales, try this. 2 hours after their whole house has gone to bed, go upstairs and tape their door bell in. So it rings continuously until they get out of bed and answer their door. Do it 3 times, wait for the last one at 6am. So their sleep is completely ruined. Then wait at your door and greet them, as they come down for work. I told them they need to stop their kid from disturbing my peaceful life or get carpets. I worked. I only did it once. When even after calling the police failed.

Leslie March 8, 2013 at 3:03 pm

I live on the 2nd floor. I am quiet and considerate, I work from home, live alone and I’m dealing with lots here. My next door neighbors have 2 children, one a young adolescent male, the other a cute little toddler girl. Last night, I’m trying to work and their front door is open. Grandma is drunk, and talking and laughing loudly, and little girl is running down the hallway screeching at the top of her lungs. Grandma lives in the next building and is apparently taking granddaughter home with her for the night to give mommy some free time. I let this go on for a few minutes until I finally throw open the door and look at drunk grandma and say, “I’m trying to work in here and it ‘s impossible.” She’s saying “sorry” while said cute little girl is still running back up the hall and screeching. Mother is apparently right there in the apartment and as I close my door I can hear mother say, “….She’ll make the call…” That being my complaint to management. Now this whole second floor is vacant and they live right next door to me on the end. It’s like they think because the rest of the floor is vacant, I don’t count and they own the hallway. But then again, if this floor was more occupied, they’d probably allow their child to run loose anyway. See they got a note on their door because I complained that the son and his friend from upstairs play ball in the parking lot, which is against the lease, hitting my car with the ball. I don’t want my car getting scratched up. I asked nicely the first time to please move away from my car with the ball. I get looked at by the young boy as if I am crazy. If that would have happened when I was a kid, I’d get a whipping from my parents for disrespecting another adult. I asked nicely a second time, as I was back and fourth across my patio doing laundry. I got ignored that time. Third time, I started yelling. Get away from my car!!! What part do you not understand about get away from my car??? I get the “you’re a crazy lady” look from the boy again. That is when I went to management and they got a note on their door about the running in the hallway, tossing a football in the hall, hitting and breaking the light in the light fixture near my door. So this gets better. One floor above me and one apartment over, there is a lady who lives there with her 2 sons and her boyfriend. One of her children is autistic, an older teen, and for a while there he was constantly banging his head on the wall which would vibrate down to my bedroom. I complained about that. Luckily that finally stopped. I felt bad about it because I know the boy has some problems. The younger son, however, continued to run in the hallway coming next door to see his friend and I opened my door and yelled for him to stop running. This kid turns around and sassily walks in front of me and gives me a “go to hell” look. These people are on the third floor and their lovely habit is to toss their garbage bags over the balcony hitting the sidewalk below, very near where I park my car. These bags could break open and their trash, broken bottles, etc. hit my car. Oh, and the lady cleans her closets out the same way, throwning stuff over the balcony, letting it explode into the parking lot below and her kids haul it off to the trash bin. The other night, I’m working or trying to, and I hear a friggin bowling ball being rolled from one end of the hall overhead to the other. How do I know that was a bowling ball? I used to bowl..I know what one sounds like. The halls are carpeted but still…the noise!! That sent me to the office again. These people upstairs and one over have had letters sent from management at least twice and I think they have 1 more to go and they are out. Management has told me, “This really isn’t a place for kids.” I’m more understanding and say I know these kids have no place to play in an apartment complex” but I stand by my rights to peace and quiet and I will complain and continue to complain until it gets resolved. I’ve been here 8 years this November and “I AIN’T MOVIN!!” Oh, the lovely mother next door told me not to yell at her kids, that if I have a problem for me to come to her. Yeah right! Don’t yell at her precious children for acting like a pack of wild animals, like she is REALLY going to handle the situation. Yelling at them doesn’t work either, so I’ve learned. Complaining to management does though, as I know my next door and overhead neighbors all signed the same lease, but the fact that they chose to have children and I chose not to does not mean I have to put up with theirs.

spawnfree March 17, 2013 at 1:32 pm

Well folks, the negligent mommy, her obnoxious BF and her DAMIEN moved out last month. Hmmm, not sure why, perhaps the visit from CPS or the boys-in-blue breaking up their 2am parties and bass playing (yeah, the kid was there too) seems she couldn’t handle the truth.

The bad news is that the landlord blamed me for her moving out! I told him if I had that much power over ‘making someone do something’ I am pretty sure I’d be working for the Pentagon! Also, now the apartment below me is vacant and LL is working hard to get another set of mom ‘n spawn in there. He explained to me that ‘it’s always been rented to a mommy and her kid’…My immediate thought was WHY CAN’T YOU FIND A NICE QUIET COUPLE instead of a self-absorbed muthaah and her spawn? But since I did not want to provoke him to do something spiteful I find myself silently praying to Goddess Medea. Wish me luck!

Britgirl March 24, 2013 at 11:53 pm

I want to thank everyone for sharing their stories here. It makes my heart contract to read of what some people are going through just because others are so incredibly insensitive. I cannot imagine the stress and it makes me appreciate the peace and quiet I have in my own place – where respect for ones neighbours is part of the condo rulebook. I grew up in an apartment. I had 5 brothers and sisters and parents who worked. I grew up learning to RESPECT others. It’s as simple as that. It is the parent’s job to teach their children not to disturb others – not for other tenants to suck it up. To the parents who do control and teach their kids this invaluable lesson – that running wild indoors isn’t acceptable – thank you. That is as it should be, it’s how my parents and my friend’s parents brought them up.
To the sanctimonious parents who continually wander on here to lecture readers about how we should accept your noisy kids peace-disturbing kids racket (along with throwing in an insult for good measure) in the name of “community” and goodness knows what else, please just get lost and go and find a parent blog that will more readily accept that tripe. It is not the kids I blame. The fault belongs squarely to the parents.

Charles March 31, 2013 at 1:52 pm

I am looking at these posts because I am having a hard time after buying my first condo and being awakened every morning at 7:15AM by a running 5 year old. I have just accepted that she is excited and running into her parents room (right above me). However, I think my line is the times she runs back and forth for a long period of time (right now it’s been about an hour). I think I may just ask her parents if they could have a no running in the house rule. Am I completely “off my rocker”? I think the right thing to do is for everyone to make some type of compromise. I have to accept she will get excited at times and run but they need to make sure she is not running inside like she would outside. Thoughts?

kathleen April 23, 2013 at 9:58 pm

Charles…same with me. I’ve lived here 15 years with single people above me. Now about 1 month ago it’s a single lady with 2 kids…about 4 and 5. This condo isn’t that big….so today the kids were yelling, running around in circles….living room to kitchen to dining room…. over and over. They stomp so loudly I’m suprised the ceiling didn’t crack yet. Also they seem to jump off the furniture or just jump really high….sounds like a balling ball dropping. My not doing anything about it stems from my thinking it would be very uncomfortable to see her after she knows the situation. But what many people say……why should I go thru this and she justs let them run wild!

AM April 1, 2013 at 6:49 pm

It was so good to find this site and know that I’m not alone! The noise from across the breezeway from the redneck, white-trash family I live next to is unbearable. They left their door open all the time – 9AM to 10PM and I was subject to every sound they and their kid made – conversations, television blasting, papa gas, the kid and his loud friends screaming. They play basetball for hours in the apartment – thump, thump, thump against the door which is 10 feet from my door. Living room cannot be used to view TV, nap or read a book. Management finally made them close the door but now that the nice weather is here they are using the common area to screech and screech and yell. More basketball out where the cars are located. The mother’s voice put’s Snooki’s to shame as she yells at the kid. My complaints were answered with “I don’t hear nuttin”. The summer nightmare awaits.

Randy Randerson April 8, 2013 at 8:26 pm

Thank you! I’m sick of being told that I have to put up with OTHER people’s kids. Luckily, I’m a firm believer that too many people are way too polite now a-days and I’m not afraid of being called an asshole. So, I’ve found the best way is to knock on the neighbors door and politely ask them to keep their kid quiet. Next, if they refuse, you knock again, this time with the landlord/co-op board/etc on the phone and let them explain to the third party while they’re being so rude. Remember, during this whole time, you’ll probably be getting called an asshole, but I prefer to be an asshole who gets his way. Finally, remember, a sarcastic comment never hurts anyone, I prefer something along the lines of “hey! Shut your damn kid up, just because you ruined YOUR life is no reason to make me pay for it!” Or something along the lines of “hey! Next time I hear your damn kid screaming, I’m going to wait until YOU’RE trying to sleep and then start screaming bloody murder!” One again, you’ll get called an asshole, but some of us choose not to have kids AND we shouldn’t have to conform our lives to people who choose to have them. AND FINALLY, before anyone says anything, yes, the reason I don’t have kids is because I’m self aware enough to know that it’d be 100% irresponsible for me to raise a child at my current stage in life.

Jimmy April 9, 2013 at 3:42 am

Wow, look at all these whiners.

Stella April 9, 2013 at 2:43 pm

Boy, that’s tellin’ em Jimmy! Clever! Let me guess–anyone who doesn’t like listening to the noise your kids make is a whiner. And what name do you have for people who don’t parent their children and make others suffer as a result? I have a few ideas, but why don’t you go first. Drawing a blank, huh?

Carmen Flores April 22, 2013 at 1:04 pm

My problem which has been going on for years and for which we went to mediation is continuous as new children are born and living in the apartment.
It is a one bedroom apartment (3 1/2 rooms) and there are three adults and two children. They have carpeted part of the living room, BR and have mats on part of the foyer, not all

The problem is that the older boy uses the baby’s walker as what sounds like a skateboard pushing it all around the apartment and it is used on mostly the areas that are not carpeted or have rugs. These are wooden floors and the walker has no rubber on the wheels…It is a constant whirring noise down here which sounds like rolling thunder. If it would only happen for a little while but it goes on for 45 minutes, stops for a while and starts again, sometimes for hours at a time..At times they stomp on the floor (my ceiling) and drop things that are heavy too many times to be just accidents.

Management is of no use as they point to a mediation agreement where I agreed they could play…I did not agree for them to make a racket while doing so.They claim that I am being too sensitive in this way blaming me for complaining.

They do not control this child, the child controls them and as luck will have it they live on the last floor so no one to give them a dose of their own medicine.

I am at my wits end. They also have a partition in the living room which I don’t know if it is legal or not but this permits the daughter and her husband to use the bedroom, the mother to use the partitioned area as her bedroom and the kids I don’t know where they sleep. Before that it was her son with a child permitted to run around and make a racket.

Victoria May 17, 2013 at 8:00 am

I wake up every single day to the sound of my upstairs neighbors toddler running and screaming and crying. Every single day at 6am. I mostly work evenings so I am no where near up this early. He screams like a crazy person. This morning I heard the mother on the phone, it sounded like she was crying saying she couldn’t control this little boy, how he does this every morning, and how she couldn’t take it anymore. I thought WTF!! You wake me up every day with this shit. I have a 4 year old and he gets a little whiny in the morning but he doesn’t scream and run through the house like a maniac. I haven’t knocked on her door yet because it usually only last for a few minutes, she leaves a little after 6 but still, it wakes me up and by the time I try to go back to sleep, it’s time for me to go to work. It’s ridiculous and I’m getting irritated. I already know she’ll probably be aggressive when I do go up there but I’ve been tolerant and understanding long enough. I didn’t complain the first time her crazy son rattled my bedroom walls. I just have the feeling that this wont go well, my landlord isn’t going to do much as long as her rent is paid. And I can every single thing that happens up there. The boy is crying he wants his daddy, she’s telling him to pipe down, he takes off running, she tells him to stop. He screams no. And I mean he SCREAMS. She tells him she won’t tolerate his behavior. He continues screaming. From 6 to 6:15 or 6:30am I listen to this

suburbanite May 30, 2013 at 7:01 pm

I am in a condo in an upscale NYC suburb and am in a similar predicament to many other commenters on this blog. In fact, I lived in NYC for many years and NEVER had close to this much noise in any of the apartment buildings I resided in. There is a toddler upstairs that runs back and forth from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. It is not just an occasional run back and forth, but constant running, ball bouncing, stomping, knocking and wheels rolling! The latest phase is some sort of toy car that he rides in back and forth across the floor above. It is only quiet when he naps between 3:30 and 4:30. Moreover, the toddler never leaves the condo. He stays inside for days and weeks at a time! When they go to work, a babysitter comes and stays there with him inside. Now wouldn’t you want your child to get out and play outside in the fresh air? There’s a playground, pool, and lots of open spaces in our complex but he is never taken there. I find this so odd. Like the original poster, I’ve had a very tough time concentrating, as I work from home 3 days per week. I’ve already spent thousands of dollars in hotel bills to evade the noise. I’ve complained to the condo board to no avail. I don’t think I should have to “suck it up” but this seems to be the attitude here as well. It is not the child’s fault – he is doing what a toddler who is cooped up in a small flat would do. But don’t the parents have any consideration or sense of responsibility? This lack of common courtesy is mind boggling to me. When I lived in NYC, I put rugs down in my flat. I engaged in the practice of taking my shoes off when entering my apartment so I would not wake up my downstairs neighbor. If I came in late a night, I made a conscious effort to walk softly. In short, I considered others in the community. Here it is like the complete opposite. It is all about them, them, them. It honestly scares me what the world will become when these kids grow up and are thrown into it. Luckily for me, my husband and I bought a house and will be moving out in a month’s time. It is on an acre of land, which hopefully will be far enough away from any noisy neighbors. I wish everyone on this blog best of luck.

Stacy June 5, 2013 at 3:34 pm

We live on the second floor of a three story building with wooden floors so we expect the occasional drop or bump but the tenants above us are absolutely atrocious! Even the tenants below and across from us can hear their two young boys stomping around all day and well into the evening… around 10, 11… midnight! And I’m talking young and still in diapers. The mother use to love leaving the bag of dirty diapers in the hallway all day until she dragged it down the stairs after it stunk up the place. My floor mate wasn’t too happy cleaning up that mess after the bag ripped. And when I confronted her about it nicely to tell her “We’re new, we’re not used to having kids and yours are very loud. Can you please teach them to walk more softly.”, her response was in this sassy tone, “Do you have kids? Are you planning to go to sleep now?”
No freaking excuse to have us subjected to her children’s rambunctious screams and stomping running about up and down the apartment, when she is a stay at home mom and there’s a freaking playground for younger kids not 30 feet from the freaking door!!! Secured too!

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