Happy New Year Like It Is readers! Here’s wishing everyone a wonderful New Year. And hopefully the holiday season was safe and peaceful. The first post of 2010 has a couple of updates. But first, as we look forward to another decade and I thought of this blog post, I found myself wondering, what, if anything, has changed for the childfree? I’ve been blogging about it for quite some time and in some ways nothing has changed. In other ways not much has changed at all. Being childfree still attracts criticism from society and pressure from people who think the thing to do is to have children, no matter what. That means childfree people still have to defend their choice and argue their case – even when it’s clear they shouldn’t have to.
Teenagers still get pressure from “well-meaning” parents and “friends” to start thinking about having children “before it’s too late” – even when they say they have no intention of, or are not interested in, having kids. They, as well as older women – are told are told they will change their minds…
Off line, it can be hard to meet anyone who is childfree. Online it’s now fairly easy to find blogs and discussions on being childfree. Online isn’t enough… but it’s something. It’s 2010 and the word “childfree” doesn’t have the respect it should have… considering we are supposed to tolerate and respect one another’s choices. In a relationship the person who wants to have children is supposed to hold all the cards… and, as we know, the decision to have children (or not) is often a deal-breaker.
Having listed all this (and I know I’ve left out quite a bit here) I come back to the question… what has changed for the better? Perhaps knowing other childfree men and women, even if only online is a great thing. Should there be more? Do you feel more things have changed or that nothing at all has changed? Are you expecting anything different or does it not matter? Share your thoughts.
On the subject of changes, I am thinking of some for the blog… Read On..
For the past few months I’ve had competing demands on my time (full time job, a marketing side business – because you never know these days, right? and more). Unsurprisingly this is has impacted my blogging frequency – in manner of being time-starved – plus I haven’t felt the inspiration seize me as often as it used to and drive me until I blog it out. I know many of you do have plenty of inspiration – I can see that in the comments you share which are often almost posts in their own right. One of the ideas I’ve tossed around for a few months now is the idea of guest authors and guest articles. If you have an article you want to share on the blog, feel free to send to me in Word format in an email for consideration. And if you have a blog, you’ll of course get a link back to it.
Another thing that had to take a back-seat to blogging is my being able to visit other childfree blogs. There simply hasn’t been the time. I miss doing that because as well as giving me ideas there are some great childfree blogs out there that could do with more exposure. It can be hard to get that exposure unless someone comments or links to your blog. I plan to visit as many as I can – so look out some interesting links/posts for you to comment on here.
I still have several interesting links and stories sent in from readers and I’ll be featuring some of them over the next few weeks. Look out for them so you can comment on a link or article you’ve sent in (you don’t have to use your name) as it adds to the conversation. And as always, if you have ideas for discussion topics send them to me (better still, kick things off with your own thoughts).
The frequency of new posts will continue to be a little spotty … make sure you sign up to the RSS feed if you haven’t already so you get the updates as and when. Also look out for some changes to the blog design…(suspense!)
OK, back to this week’s post…. thoughts?
{ 54 comments… read them below or add one }
Happy New Year Britgirl and to all readers and commenters of the blog.
I just wanted to say I had a funny experience today. I babysat my friends’ 2 kids (7 year old boy and 6 year old girl) today while both parents had to work. I was happy to help because our friends are “parents not breeders” and the kids are delightful. You can actually have fun with them and their manners are impeccable.
Anyway, the kids asked me today if I’d ever had any kids and I said no and they asked me why I hadn’t had any. I said to them “I have a very special role. I’m more suited to helping my friends now and again. My role is not to be a mother but to be able to help out my friends, like your mum and dad and step in when they need help, like today when they had to work”. The boy looked at me very seriously, nodding, and said “And besides kids can make you very busy, but we’re lucky to have such a good mum and dad. Besides, if you had your own child then you wouldn’t be able to look after us because then you would have to find a babysitter and it just wouldn’t work.” By this stage I was struggling to keep a straight face, then the girl said, “So not everyone has to have kids?” I said, “No, everyone has a choice, just like we chose not to have kids, but your parents chose to have you two and you’ll have a choice too when you grow up”. Then I said to them “But a lot of my friends have kids so I’m lucky to have other kids to look after”.
The kids were very accepting of this and I felt I explained in a positive way why I didn’t have/want kids. I thought it was better than saying I thought most kids were little shits
But when their parents came home both the kids gave me a hug and said “Thank you very much for taking care of us today and we hope you liked the cake we baked for you”. I’m hoping that the answer I gave them was a positive one as I’ve never actually been asked by kids before why I don’t have any 
*sigh* if only more kids were raised that well!!
Awww, kids that age are so sweet.
I think you absolutely gave the best answer; these children are a rarity (especially in my experience of encountering ‘little shits’), they’re using their brains and are obviously having a great upbringing with loving, responsible parents. Miracles can happen!
You said the right thing!
Wow, I am really impressed with the kids! They sound very smart. And I do think you gave the right answer
Hi, this is in reply to you Natashka as well as Miss Fanny. Yes, the kids are smart and have responsible parents! The other thing that happened too was I took them to the local beaches and carnival etc and on our way home to their place, they’d been playing with some little rabbit figurine that hubby had got in a crisps packet and I told the kids they could have it and the boy pipes up from the backseat to his sister “You can have it for yourself Ruby” and she says “No I want to share it with you” and then they’re arguing back and forth, him saying she could keep it and her saying she wanted to share it. God it was hard to keep a straight face
But that it is certainly something you don’t see kids arguing about these days is it? 
My friends all made fun of me yesterday about the fact that I volunteered to babysit (all in jest of course) but they all said that the kids must be fantastic, given they know I’m not big on children.
I am child free myself, and at 47, I don’t get the pressures to have children. I do get the curious question from time to time, but living in the US, in the South, it’s almost always tactfully asked, if it’s asked at all. My childfreeness wasn’t a choice, but it is a happenstance that I am finally quite comfortable with, and happy for. Had I children, many things about my life would be different, “I” would be different, and therefore not who I am now. And I like who I am.
Anyway, I’ve found your blog interesting and thought provoking
Always a good thing.
- Catherine
http://www.3sharedpaths.com
Thanks Catherine. Happy New Year!
I think guest articles are a great way to keep the blog alive under the circumstances, and links to other blogs and articles should provide enough grounds for discussion on here. Whatever change in attitude towards the childfree there may have been – if any – it is not enough to become complacent. Although I have always been adament about not wanting children, I didn’t come across the term and concept of childfreedom until a couple of years ago and hadn’t been monitoring attitudes before then. So I have little to compare today’s situation to other than personal experience, and personally, I must say that even today, a decade into the 21st century, with Mars exploration programmes and nanotechnology, the attitudes I encounter towards my childfree status are pretty Dark Ages. (And in a culture that’s supposedly anti-children no less.) I want a full life without constantly having to fight against windmills – because that’s what it can feel like. Random strangers, family, colleagues, the entire medical profession to name a few – treat me primarily as a mother-to-be and incubator, not a person in my own right. On the grounds that I am married and of childbearing age. No matter what I say I want or don’t want. No matter how blatant and matter-of-fact I am about it. I don’t see why I should just shrug my shoulders and be glad that at least, I’m allowed to earn a living as a woman. I don’t see how that could be good enough. Why I should think the struggle has ended. So, from my point of view, whatever may have changed, it’s not enough. Not even close. Which is why I am so grateful for this blog, as a personal outlet and a public platform the whole world can see. It’s desperately needed. Any changes you make to keep it going and innovative are welcome as far as I’m concerned.
Thanks Domino… the blog will go on
. I really agree with you – we can’t become complacent. It is easy to become comfortable because we know there are blogs and so on, but offline we are still lone voices, looked at oddly because don’t want to have kids. The fact is, we still can’t freely enter “polite conversation” airily saying we’re childfree as easily as some say they have kids. Or, we can, but have to be prepared for any fallout.
” I don’t see why I should just shrug my shoulders and be glad that at least, I’m allowed to earn a living as a woman…” totally agree. It is really weird that people are now flying to the moon yet still, as you say maintain archaic views about people who are childfree (and about whom they know relatively nothing).
I think in order for there to be meaningful change in the overall childfree comfort level women have to be able to speak openly about their feelings and experiences without being demonized for not falling in with the status quo. For that to happen the pro-natal/pro-life/marketing/advertising/media/societal propaganda machine would need to wind down considerably. Women are exposed to endless promos/messages about the joys of parenting and as we have witnessed on this blog, are, in a multitude of way literally bullied into becoming mothers. Then when they find they were sold a bill of goods (in some cases) and are trapped in a life they hate, they feel like they have to keep the dirty little secret to themselves which just perpetuates the vicious cycle.
A friend sent me this link/thread which is not from a parenting site but was started by a woman who hates being a mother. There are some very interesting and illuminating posts from women who say they love their kids but hate the job of parenting. Some of them are painful to read but I think that your readers who are feeling pressure to climb aboard the baby train will benefit from the brutal honesty. One woman in particular talks about how she plasters a smile on her face every day and won’t even reveal to her husband or family how much she dislikes mommyhood. I wonder how many other women feel as she does, but also keep quiet about it.
Of course there are the requisite single cell organisms trolling the thread as per usual so they took the topic to another site where they can speak freely without being harassed.
http://www.justrage.com/article.php/i_hate_being_a_mother_motherhood
Re: Blog format: whatever you need to do BG to keep it going is all good! Thanks for asking!
Lee – thanks for that link – very illuminating. I read one of the posts where the mother is just waiting for the child to leave home at 18. I would almost bet that won’t happen, what with grown, sometimes married kids moving back IN with parents because of the economy. A child is for life…And it’s so sad to see that honesty isn’t appreciated once you’ve had kids… you are NOT allowed to say you do not like it. Hence the myth is perpetuated – motherhood = ultimate goal of any woman.
Hopefully more people discover blogs and coversations like the ones on here… as they won’t find the alternative view elsewhere. Thanks for commenting!
Reading through the thread you linked to, Lee, has made me think I’m never going to justify being childfree ever again to anyone. Seeing how so many mothers hate being mothers and so many fathers are absent, the people who harrass me either already know the reasons for my choice (whatever they may say) or will never get it anyway.
Childfree or not you can have a fulfilling life. A very important thing, I think, is that you are in charge of your life – that you know what you want and you try to create it. More important than that, though, is being happy with your life – with whatever you have. Being content is so important.
Lee – WOW. That is some seriously validating reading, thank you for sharing the link.
Britgirl – my thoughts on what (if anything) has changed for the childfree. Yanno, I have to say, I’ve encountered a lot of positive reinforcement for my feelings in recent months – more so than I ever predicted, when I first “came out”. I wrote a number of highly emotional charged posts about parenting on my (now private) blog. And while I certainly pissed a lot of people off (which, admittedly, was kinda fun in some cases), I was floored by the number of women who emailed me privately to thank me for illuminating a very basic, but often overlooked truth: parenting is a choice you DON’T HAVE TO MAKE.
This past year saw the publication of a lot of articles which served to shatter parenting myths, and to reinforce what is clear to those who just pay attention to the world around them: raising children is a toilsome, thankless task that drains marriages of their joy and individuals of their spirit, ambition, youth, and sense of self.
I truly feel so much excitement to be in what I consider the vanguard of the childfree movement. I feel so excited for the freedom the rest of my life holds!
Ok, I kind of rambled off-topic there, sorry. LOL. I guess that’s just my way of saying Happy New Year, thanks for all the great posts, and here’s to continually challenging the world around us to see the potential in a childfree life. =)
You are all welcome. As a childfree person who, from time to time, has been looked upon with suspicion scorn, anger, and let’s not forget pity, for simply not wanting to be a mother, I could really feel the pain of those who confessed to actually hating the sacred role that is supposed to bring women such joy and fulfillment.
If we childfree are harshly judged for choosing a life that really impacts no one other than ourselves, is it any wonder that unhappy mothers will suffer in silence rather than face the wrath of a pro-natal public? While it seems logical to me that a job that consists of 90% drudgery would be unpalatable to most people, women are meant to be compliant indentured servants in order to keep the mommy myth going. When I read the comments of one woman who described what her days are like, chills ran down my spine–though it wasn’t really surprising because, in retrospect, that is what my mother’s days were like and she worked full time. If you don’t happen to be lucky enough to have extended family to help share the burden, then it must seem like a daily nightmare from which you never awaken. That helps to explain why I have sometimes been the recipient of thinly veiled anger from some of my friends who decided late in the game to join the parenting party. I guess it’s easier and more comfortable to try to make me feel bad for not having children than to accept that they made a wrong choice that cannot be undone.
Despite the fact that several studies have indisputably shown that children don’t make you happier, we are still programmed to believe parenting is all kittens and rainbows. Well, actually I would like the kitten aspect, if that were true
I think the advice given by a couple of mothers–if you don’t feel it, don’t do it, is a precious gift to people who are on the fence.
P.S. Happy, wildly free and loving it, New Year to everyone here! Yay and Phew!!!
“If you don’t feel it, don’t do it.”
It is so simple and makes so much sense, but the response is ALWAYS “but you WILL feel it once you have them”.
ARGH
And if I try to send people to websites like that one, the response is that “real” people don’t say things like that in “real life”. No of course not, because look at the responses they get!
Hi–Author of Families of Two: Interviews with Happily Married Couples Without Children by Choice here…my book came out 10 years ago and I am working on a second edition and as part of this am asking myself and researching the same question. In the States anyway, I do think that the choice not to have children is more accepted than 10 years ago. More people are educated about this choice (I have done Lots of media including the Early Show, Good Morning America, talk radio galore etc and it does get print media play more than it used to) but I think we still have a ways to go before more people know about the choice as see it as just as legitimate as the choice to reproduce. The choice somehow still has to justified. Judgement still surrounds it. We fight embedded ideas about what womanhood and manhood means and society’s deep pronatalistic values.
On the other hand, I see more young adults making this choice and sticking to it. Will be an interesting phenom if it is truly a trend. In the last 10 years more women have been what they call postponers–they put off the decision re kids and finally decide not to have them as they get older. Ten years ago, younger people made up a minority of those who made the choice for sure say in their late teen and 20s.
My goal is to increase education on making the childfree choice and be part of making it as legitimate decision as having kids…that will mean we finally have true reproductive freedom! ~L http://www.lauracarroll.com
Laura,
I just found out about your book from another website and am about to place it in my Amazon cart tonight.
I was one of the “post-poners” who had to slowly and gently coax myself into what I already knew since I myself was a child: I simply don’t want to be a parent. I arrived at this decision from many divergent paths-seeing married women friends bear the brunt of child rearing while their husbands pursued their own lives (the notion of co-parenting, although sweet, is illusory at best); the appalling degree to which our culture in the U.S.is becoming increasingly child-centric and the sad results of that collective mindset; and the pervasive unawareness of young women who continued to be uninformed by educators and caretakers that they have the option to remain childfree. This is something that no young man or woman is ever told; the presumption is on reproduction.
From the perspective of someone in the legal/legislative field, you’ve got a long row to hoe in making the argument for the social acceptance of “childfree-ness” (my apologies for the clunky neologism), as laws that govern give deference to a deeply pronatalistic society, from federal income tax breaks to child support. Even common law is saturated with it. Women continue to face the same problems that we always have since the formative days of women’s rights. To be brutally frank, many women who choose to have children accept a far lesser role in a marriage or relationship in exchange for being taken care of financially, thus demoting them to the state of dependent. As long as they endure for the “magic number” (typically, ten years) and have the fruits of their wombs to prove it, upon divorce they are privy to state-sanctioned, court-ordered support, which, if one resides in a generous jurisdiction such as Utah can be maintained for life. This basically amounts to a gentrified form of welfare.
I realize that I made things a bit more complicated. What I suggest is that the childfree choice doesn’t appear to be a viable option for many women, given the overriding benefits of the scenario described above. This instinct resides deep in the reptilian brain that advocates the path of least resistance. Confession: during my last brutally bad marriage, I considered having a child and sticking it out for the “magic number” so my future would be assured. The majority of women still make far less than men and are not taken as seriously as men when they enter the workplace; they are (rightly) perceived as unreliable workers who’ll jump ship once the baby comes along. Women are not deemed to have the same work ethic as men, as this is not taught to them. Financially, it would have been a lot easier to stay married and to do what my husband wanted: stay at home and raise the kids.
Sadly, many women do abandon their careers to become a full-time “mommy”–proving that they cannot be trusted with more tasking jobs. Why should they ever be taken seriously to begin with?
Laura,
Part of the reason that women make less than men is that women work in lower paying roles that facilitate them being able to take care of their kids. If you don’t take 10 or more years out of the workforce to raise kids, you have the opportunity to create your own financial security independently of your husband.
As to women who are paid less for equal work – pay, especially in high paying jobs, is usually negotiated by the employee and their boss. If women don’t negotiate as well, then they end up with less pay. It simply can’t all be blamed on the men, and pulling out of the whole thing to raise kids instead isn’t going to solve the problem.
In fact it’s partly for this exact reason (financial security and independence) that many many women choose NOT to have kids. Having them doesn’t create any sort of safety net at all, regardless of how much money your ex-husband will have to pay you.
While the laws may appear to be on the side of people who have children, the truth is that real social support in practical terms just isn’t there. Like most forms of welfare, it’s a case of “here’s the money, now be quiet.”
You may be interested in a book by Leslie Cannold which argues that the real issue is with the lack of support FOR women who have children leading to fewer women choosing to have them. It’s basically the flip side of what you have said. It’s an Australian book but also quotes Amercian statistics, research and social issues.
I must admit that while I don’t want kids on an emotional level, a lot of the issues raised in Leslie’s book are contributing factors to my decision. I don’t care how much money I would be given to have kids, if the emotional support isn’t there, it wouldn’t be enough.
http://www.cannold.com/books/what-no-baby/
I still get bugged about not having kids by people who have children and never questioned if they should. It feels like they’re saying, “I suffered through it, so you should too.” At work, I have colleagues who begin conversations with, “When you have children…” It would be nice to see some attitude changes.
I’d also like to see some changes regarding money. For example, my health insurance at work has two options: single or family. If I want to cover my husband, I have to pay as much as the employee with a hoard of kids.
I am really impressed with the kids! They sound very smart!
Hi lasix, yeah the kids are great. It’s good to see that there are still some parents raising kids, not just breeders!!
Um I must admit i have only read a few of the comments on the link Lee put in…does anyone else find this really disgusting. What kind of people talk like this about an obviously disturbed women. How revolting. Does being a parent turn some people into foul mouthed pigs…
Brigitte–I don’t know if the charming commentary was supplied by parents or just your garden variety internet trolls–their comments seemed pretty typical of the fare found on boards without a moderator. Makes you wonder who you share the planet with. I skipped over them to focus on the commentary by mothers.
Interesting to note that for the first time in history the percentage of women in the U.S. workforce (49.1), is about to surpass the percentage of men. As we continue to be mired in a recession, more and more households are counting on the wages of women as male dominated sectors, which are vulnerable to economic downturns, such as construction and manufacturing continue continue to shed jobs.
With the global economy in a state of turmoil, I don’t think it is prudent for anyone, either male or female to plan a financial future counting on the pipeline of a partner’s endless monetary support in exchange for child care. Given the fact that now a horrifying 1 out of 4 children in the U.S. receive food stamps, it seems that there is not enough money to go around for intact families, let alone alimony. Assuming a marriage lasts the requisite ten years to qualify as long term, 50% of zero is still zero. While I’m sure that there are women who marry into the top 10% of wager earners and live what they consider to be fabulous lives post-divorce, they are a tiny minority. If you want to provide yourself with a financial guarantee, education and on-the-job training are two things that can never walk away or be taken away from you.
Happy New Year! I have no idea what changed since I never heard of the movement until maybe 6 months ago, but you all have been a huge help to me through a very difficult last few months, so I thank you for that.
Lisa
Further proof of the backlash, obviously not everyone does feel it and those who think all women do have an agenda.
I can’t say I understand the idea that people who post on the internet aren’t real.The truth is many people in many types of situations have been able to find support and camaraderie in internet groups. That comment just seems like a defense mechanism to discount opinions not liked or agreed with. The converse of that idea is that everyone whom we encounter in our daily lives in the “real world” is completely honest in all of their communications and that we know their most private feelings simply because we interact with them in person. I would think, with less attribution comes more honesty. I would also have to ask if this person discounts people who post ideas that he/she agrees with. For example, when mommies post about the joys of mothering, love like no other, wondrous, delightful, life changing etc.–are their feelings more valid simply because they are less controversial?
The entire point of those women or anyone posting anonymously on the internet was/is, as you said Lisa, because they could never reveal their feelings to people they know in the real world for the many reasons that they stated. They aren’t trying to get a date, sell tooth whiteners or pretend that they are rock stars or millionaires. Is it really so hard to imagine that to some women and men the “job” of parenting is truly unappealing? While one could give the advice that you will feel like being a mom once you try it–as has been said many times over, what if you don’t? No refunds, no returns, no exchanges. For me, I know that in my heart of hearts, I would not enjoy being a mother enough for me to suffer through the daily grind. I am a responsible person, so would care for my child to the best of my ability, while slowly dying inside. What is right for Jane, or Jill or Josette may not be right for Lee, Lisa or Lynette. I don’t think some people grasp how painful it is for a woman who brings a human being into the world and then realizes that she really doesn’t want to care for it. Honestly, if someone who is close to me cannot respect that I know my own heart and mind then I would question how much they care for me. When someone tries to talk me into doing something for their obvious benefit, I don’t perceive it as a kindness, more like self-serving manipulation.
“I can’t say I understand the idea that people who post on the internet aren’t real. That comment just seems like a defense mechanism to discount opinions not liked or agreed with.”
Oh absolutely. Unfortunately when people are on the defensive it’s very hard to get past that defensiveness and help them see the truth.
I’ve experienced trying to get through to very defended or defensive people regarding other issues and it can be very exhausting and frustrating.
However, I really don’t have much experience trying to make people understand my child free position–mostly because the only person I think has the right to be concerned about it is my husband and we are on the same page. With others, I figure if I have to explain myself they won’t get it anyway, or what I have to say about parenthood will just make them angry, if they are parents (which I believe domino also wrote in her post). It does seem that my indifference doesn’t stop some people from judging me–something to talk about in between diaper changes, I guess.
Oh wat I would give for a partner who was on the same page as me – or at least one who understood my perspective!
I know what hasn’t changed for the childfree – the fact we can’t go out in public without having to listen to screaming brats whose “parents” won’t discipline them! I had the misfortune to have an encounter with a breeder a couple of days ago. Here goes. Sorry for the length, but I need to get it off my chest!!
I was having a quiet lunch in a cafe which is part of a camping/outdoors store when 2 kids, a boy of about 10 and his sister about 8, came and sat at the lounges next to mine. They promptly picked up the sugar packets on the coffee table and started pegging them at each other. I didn’t say anything at first because I thought that surely a parent would appear and tell them not to do it. Didn’t happen. I got up to go and get some napkins and when I was walking back to my lounge and coffee table, one of the sugar packets hit me on the arm. I said to the kids politely, “Can you please pick up all these sugar packets and put them back in their container? They are for people to use, not for you to throw around”. The kids looked at me then suddenly disappeared.
About a minute later a man in his 30s appeared and shouted at me, “Did you call my kids a name?” I said, “No I just told them to stop throwing the sugar around because one hit me on the arm, and that they are not there to be thrown around”. He shouted, “Mind your own fucking business”. I retorted, “Why don’t you discipline your kids and teach them how to behave in public”. Father shouts “I don’t have to”. I said, “Yeah actually you do, it’s called parenting. Typical breeder attiutude, we have to be tolerant of your brats misbehaving in public yet you can’t hack people telling them to behave. You can’t have it both ways.” Father says, “Shut up you fucking cow”. I said, “What does me being a cow have to do with your pathetic parenting skills?” He just walked away. The whole time he was abusing me the son was standing behind his father smirking, pulling faces and flipping me the bird. Great lesson he taught his kids. Way to solve a problem is to be aggressive and rude and abuse someone and call them names.
Anyway, I finished my lunch and left, but right near the front door of the store was the son. The little brat had a smirk on his face and when I was right in front of he flipped me the bird and said, “Sucked in bitch, my dad told you off, that’ll teach you for telling me what to do”. I leaned in close to him and he backed away. I said, “Not so tough now are you without your daddy to back you up.” I leaned in closer and said, “What you did was disgusting. You accused me of doing something that I didn’t even do, just because you were told not to throw things around, so now I feel I may as well do the very thing that you accused me of – call you a name. Guess what? You’re a little fucker.” The kid’s mouth fell open in shock and I promptly left the store. When I looked back he was still standing in the doorway with his mouth still open. Hopefully I can defend my outburst as a slow fuse that erupted after the past 2 months leading up to christmas and new year, listening to kids behaving in public like gorillas on speed
Maybe that makes me no better than the breeder, but god I was so angry!!!! But thanks all for letting me get it off my chest.
As a side note Britgirl, whatever you do with the blog I’m sure it will be great. As to guest “speakers”, Polly Vernon from the Guardian newspaper in the UK has written some great childfree articles.
Childfree Aussie, I think you spoke to the little monster in a language that he understands given his father’s behavior. When being reasonable doesn’t work, sometimes you have to escalate. My husband and I experienced the U.S. version of your monster boy when we went to see an art exhibit over the holidays. We had tried several times to get in but there were always long lines, so we went one afternoon during some off time. The museum is a spiral design so all floors from the bottom to top are open and any loud noise carries from one to the next.. A couple decided to bring their three kids, who were all under five, to see the show. Mom and dad were either oblivious or indifferent to the fact that the children were all running around–up and down the ramps, bumping into other visitors, crying, shrieking and throwing headsets around the floor. People who wanted to sit quietly and enjoy the paintings were forced to leave the section(s) that the kids were in–which seemed to be all of them. The father would stand in front of a painting and loudly pontificate about its meaning while his kids created chaos for everyone else. Mom, just looked on as if she was worn out and had no clue what to do. I had to restrain myself from strangling art-dad with one of the tangled headsets that his little darlings had thrown on the floor. Parents like art-dad and the father of the brat that you encountered get what they deserve if someone snaps.and gives them a does of enlightenment. As my husband always says, there should be a “no assholes” rule when it comes to reproduction. Amen to that.
Lisa
I’m here to tell you that it is possible to find a like minded mate. We know that wanting or not wanting children isn’t enough to cement a bond between two people, but if you are patient and persistent you will find the right person and I truly believe there are at least a few right people for all of us. It’s a big world!
I have a friend who actually wanted kids, but aside from that t he’s a pretty unique character so he decided to sign up for two of the popular online dating services here. Even though he wanted kids, the first site returned NO matches–in all of NYC. That’s pretty rare. I told him he made the matching database blow a gasket.
The second site returned four matches in all of the entire NYC metro area. Out of those four women, he married one two years ago. I had to say I was impressed because he’s sort of Spock-like and he really did find his Spock-ette. Keep the faith! Not to go all new-age, but I have found if you re-direct your energy into bringing positive change into your life, cool things can happen.
Sorry BG for straying from the original topic yet again. I promise to stay on course with the next entry!
Thanks Lee! I’m still pretty young so I have plenty of time to enjoy my life and meet someone along the way, but I do often sigh and think how wonderful my current partner would be if only he didn’t want kids (and I daresay he thinks the same about me, if only I DID want them!)
It’s hard to move on from someone who is closer to perfect than I ever expected to find, but at the end of the day a dealbreaker is a dealbreaker. So thanks for the encouragement – I’d be lost without this blog and the people on it!
As my mother always used to say when as a young lass I would despair of ever finding a compatible and good soul in NYC, “You only need to find one.” Of course, my one had to make his way here to me from half-way around the world, but it was worth the wait! If memory serves, I believe that BG met her husband through an online service. It does happen! You’ll do the right thing for yourself if you follow your heart!
Lee, yes I did… and my advice is to hold out and look for what you want rather than settle. The childfree men are out there, they are just harder to find.
http://www.sanemoms.com/journal/2008/3/9/ever-wish-youd-never-had-kids.html
Hey Britgirl – I too am a UK girl in the great frozen north. I like this site. I kind of hope the lovely people on here can give me some advice. My partner is 7 years older than me (i’m 36) with a teenage kid (ok – don’t seem to hate me) and doesn’t want more kids and has had a vasectomy anyway. He’s recently decided kids are a definite no no. Now – I have always NEVER seen myself as the maternal type. Not a fan of babies or children really. Especially sticky ones who scream in public. Now I find myself going – actually, they can be quite cute and interesting and maybe it would be nice to bring something into the world and watch it grow.
We’ve been together 4 years and NOW my bloody biological clock is kicking in big time and his ‘definitely no’ decision seems to have left me a bit, well, devastated really.
SO my questions are: is it better to be childfree with the man you love and running the risk of one day getting all bitter and twisted with resentment or leave on the off chance that you might find someone you like as much, who has fully functioning gonads? Only I can answer the ‘is his love enough’ question but does anyone in a similar situation have any idea HOW you sort out your head on this issue??? Is it all my crazy hormones or the fact that the decision has been taken away from me rather than being one I’ve come to myself. My ovaries are probably starting to dry up anyway so its irrelevant but I would really appreciate some advice.
uklass – this is timely for me as I just last night broke up with a man I love, because he wants kids and I don’t.
For him the choice was clear – he was never able to really open up to me because he knew from the start that I don’t want kids. Neither of us was ever going to be fulfilled, no matter how much we care for each other. We’re both very, very sad, but for us this is the right decision.
The things that helped us reach this decision are:
- While I might change my mind down the track, it’s HIGHLY unlikely and it isn’t fair to ask him to stick around for ten years just in case, when I really don’t see it happening.
- For him this desire has been a lifelong one, and is deeply felt.
- He was beginning to resent me and it was starting to manifest in his behaviour towards me. He knew he was saying things that hurt me but didn’t know how to deal with the conflict in his heart/mind.
- It is better to be alone than in a relationship that is deeply damaged by resentment.
- He deserves to have everything he wants in life, and I love him enough to give him anything except children, which means I love him enough to leave.
Those are all issues that were relevant to our relationship but there are other things that weren’t relevant to us, but might be to you, some of which you will see in comments on other posts on this blog. (Men and Kidults, Childfree Bob are 2 examples that spring to mind).
If I were to end up in your position (god forbid because the regret at walking away from this guy would kill me), then I would ask myself:
- how long have I felt this way?
- WHY do I feel this way?
- why did it change? Is it really something within me, or is it society and other external pressures?
A really good piece of advice I’ve come across is this: Every day, ask yourself at various points throughout the day, “How would what I am doing now be changed by the presence of a child?” Ask it when you’re sleeping in, making breakfast, showering, going to work, going to the beach, grocery shopping, watching tv, all throughout the day in normal situations…
In my relationship I could see that things were going to get worse – his resentment was starting to show and from there it would be a downward spiral. So whether or not you risk leaving to find someone is one thing – but also whether or not there is even a chance of your current relationship surviving either way is another.
Some women have commented that they felt a temporary bio clock that went away and never returned. Perhaps you could give it 6 months and see if the feelings remain…
It’s a very painful situation. I was only with my partner for just under a year and I am just so, so sad about this. I feel for you!
Very sorry about your break up Lisa. It must be very painful. It always strikes me that many childfree people go to great lengths to be fair and true to themselves and their partners even at the risk of losing a relationship – because we recognise chidren are not things you can compromise over. It’s painful and difficult and even sadder is that few appreciate just how hard it can be.
Thanks
What struck me about it the most was how gentle we both were with each other. To break up with someone while holding hands and trying to comfort each other is a very new and bizarre kind of pain.
But in many ways it’s made easier because we know we’ve made the right decision, and we will definitely still remain in each others lives, after a little time apart to move on.
But yes, the sympathy doesn’t seem to be there for the childfree person. There’s quite a rough sort of “well I told you you’d lose him” sentiment among many older people, and I know that many of the people he tells will speak ill of me, while there isn’t anybody who’ll say anything negative about him (not that they should!).
Thankfully I have many childfree girlfriends who understand how I feel. And a supportive blog to post on!
uklass – babies can be cute, but that’s not really a reason to have them
, and they don’t stay cute for very long. They can grow up to be great people or they can make their parents rue the day they were born. There are no guarantees. If it’s any help, I think (or rather my husband and I both think) that you must be prepared to give up the greater part of life as you know it – willingly – to give everything to the child. I believe a child deserves nothing less.
I personally don’t believe in a biological clock, mainly because I’ve never heard one.. only people talking about how it runs their lives. I think you need to decide what it is you want. If it is children, start thinking of getting out of that relationship as it isn’t fair to your partner. There is no value in the “what if I become bitter and resentful down the road…” you can’t live your life in the future you can only make a decision for yourself, today.. The decision is about you… not him.
A pair of fully fundioning gonads does not a good relationhip make!
All the best!
“You can’t live your life in the future, you can only make a decision for yourself, today.”
So true. And finally I have found the way to phrase this exact sentiment to my grandmother who keeps insisting I’ll regret leaving him when I’m 36 and want kids.
Why 36? I have no idea.
ps – perhaps we should do a partner swap? hahaha
thank you so much Lisa – that is truly excellent advice and I’m sorry you are going through a horrible time
I suspect that the answer, at the moment regarding asking myself how I would feel having a child around when I am sleeping in, watching good tv, enjoying the great outdoors etc is kind of annoyed at being disturbed!!!!! Maybe thats my answer. Any desire I have for a child is a recent one and prob only really started when I was forced to think about it when he told me he had had the snip – which he did as soon as we started seeing each other (he’s a very decent man).
There is SO MUCH PRESSURE TO BREED!!! – that doesn’t help either. Everyone assumes I will have kids and when I say not necessarily, they invariably say ‘ oh you’ll change your mind’ which I suspect any child free woman in her 30′s, 40′s gets and it is SOOOO patronising it makes me feel ill. That and a society entirely obscessed with celebrity pregnancies etc. And competitive mums – urgghhhh.
However, a year or so ago, he had told me having a kid ‘wasn’t totally out of the question’ and, if I am honest with myself, I felt relieved, Maybe thats why his recent honesty and decision that one teenager was enough hit me hard.
Its a bloody tough decision and I am so sorry you have had to go through splitting up with the man that you love over it. But its such a fundamental thing that a couple have to agree on – I applaud your bravery and honesty and hope you and your ex both find someone who makes you happy.
I need to have a good think and go in search of these other posts.
ha ha ha – partner swap – all very ’70′s
PS – Yep those other posts are great. Intelligent and insightful and given me a lot to think about. Am I a truly childfree person? – I don’t know. Thought I was – now having midlife crisis!!!! My partner is a wonderful and kind man and its my decision alone to make but this website has given me some useful reading material away from all the propaganda to procreate. Cheers for letting me get this off my chest.
Pressure to breed – oh don’t I know it. His friends have told him he should stay with me because I’ll definitely change my mind in a few years. What terrible advice – what if I don’t!
I think base it on the fact that they all said “I don’t want kids” and then changed their mind. Well what a surprise, I don’t want to live in a nursing home but I imagine when I’m 98 and incontinent I’ll change my mind too! None of them ever said “never” and so none of them are remotely qualified to comment, but they still do.
Luckily he respects me enough to know that I know my own mind and he didn’t listen to them. I’d have been so devastated if we’d married and then 5 years down the track he started asking whether I’d changed my mind yet.
Something else to consider: a child is not the answer to a midlife crisis. That’s what they invented red cars for
As for the propoganda, try to be aware that it comes from both sides. There is a lot of anti-child propoganda out there too, even on this site. I guess that whether you find yourself leaning one way or the other is generally the answer.
For me, in the end I thought to myself “if I am spending all this time on childfree blogs trying to decide if I am really childfree, and no time on parenting blogs because they don’t interest me at all, then I guess that answers my question.”
Good luck
… Lisa if I got my wires crossed let me know… I am really curious as I don’t see it myself.
Well I guess propoganda is really the wrong word. What I meant is bias.
Now obviously this site is going to be biased, but what I was trying to point out is that if she really wants a measured view, then she is going to have to sift through the propoganda/bias on both sides to achieve a more measured understanding.
There are very few people on this site who talk about the joys of having kids*, and that’s for obvious reasons, but to someone who is on the fence it is dangerous to only take one point of view into account, only to discover ten years later that maybe for them, having a toddler say “mummy I love you” MIGHT have made it all worthwhile.
Does that make sense?
* It should be noted there seem to be very few people ANYWHERE who talk about the joys of having kids….but maybe I’m biased
” It should be noted there seem to be very few people ANYWHERE who talk about the joys of having kids….but maybe I’m biased” Many only talk remember and talk about it when you, tell them you don’t want kids.Even if they’ve been whining about their kids and how hard parenting is seconds before. It generally switched with “oh, it’s so worth it, I wouldn’t have it any other way…”
As to bias… I think people on the fence need to “look and learn”. One thing this blog does is provide some validation for those thinking maybe they don’t have to have kids after all…but everyone they know is telling them they must and that they are nuts. Or worse.
It can still be quite a shock to discover that having children isn’t on your list of things to do. Most if not everyone commenting here is childfree, so of course we’re not going to be very interested in the joys of having kids
– plus I’ve always been clear that we’re uninterested in hearing about it!
I agree fencesitters need to get both sides of the story… the problem is only they very honest parent will tell you what parenting is really like. Most of society will cheerfully say go on and have a kid if you’re feeling like you want one….so it’s hard to find a good balance anywhere. But I recall I did my research… I read books I watched parents and their kids, I listened when they talked about kids, good and bad… and I read between the lines. I knew I was leaning towards not having kids, we discussed it for a couple of years, but the kicker was I didn’t want them enough to warrant the life change I knew would come about.
You’re right in that people need to find a balance of opinion, though the childfree writings here and elsewhere are but a whisper when compared to the pro-natalist roar we have to contend with.
At the end of the day it comes down to a choice – , Do you really want kids, and, if so are you prepared for what that really means, with all the consequences and impacts? Or do you not want kids at all and are you prepared to stand up for and be happy with your decision to be childfree? Hopefully the blog informs the thought process!
uklass – you remind me of myself, I remember going through some very similar feelings a few years ago. When I met my partner he already had a young son, and he told me that he definitely didn’t want any more children.
At first I just accepted it, as I have never had any particular desire to have children myself. However as time went on I started to think maybe I did want us to have kids, so much so that I would break down and cry if I saw friends with babies. I was upset that it would never be me, that I was missing out and the decision had been taken out of my hands.
After discussing these feelings with my husband he said he would reconsider (not really possible in your case, with the vasectomy), and so we agreed that we might have kids one day. In fact he now seemed pretty keen on the idea.
So now I had the choice I began to think about it properly, and I discovered the term “childfree” for the first time, and lovely blogs such as Britgirl’s. It was only when I had the choice that I happily chose to be childree based on my own research and feelings. It shows that the only reason I thought I wanted children was because someone told me I couldn’t have them.
In fact parenting itself does not appeal to me in any way, and my feelings for wanting a child were purely based on mystical ideas like “it would be so wonderful to create a life that was part of me and my husband”, which is not a good reason to go ahead. As a woman on my own I would never be interested in babies or childrearing (no biological clock issues), it would only be my husband’s baby that I would be vaguely interested in, so I guess that is different from your own feelings which seem to be the desire to parent a baby in general rather than create a specific one.
I hope that makes some sense! I’m a long time reader of the blog – first time commenter.
Hey Lisa ” As for the propoganda, try to be aware that it comes from both sides. There is a lot of anti-child propoganda out there too, even on this site. I guess that whether you find yourself leaning one way or the other is generally the answer.”
There are people on here who don’t like children and that’s never been a secret. There are those who can tolerate them in small doses, and there are those who like like children but are childfree. There are many people who confuse being childfree with hating children… when clearly they are not the same thing at all.
I’m curious about the anti-child propaganda you say is on this site… if one happens not to personally like children and shares that here or elsewhere exactly how does that become “anti-child propaganda?”
There is serious pressure to breed as you’ve said and experienced. With the exception of Japan’s one child policy I’ve yet to see anything remotely like the same pressure to be childfree.
And i’m thinking… what hasn’t changed enough?
I’m working on a documentary film about our reality of childfree women (my blog is about that… if you read French ^_- , i included the link) and i discovered that men can get an appointment for a vasectomy as soon as they’re of legal age (18 in Quebec, 19 in Ontario), whereas women of 30 can’t even get to see a doctor to talk about getting their tubes tied because quote “there’s too high a risk they will change their minds”… whereas men of 18 never change their minds?
Anyhow… that greatly frustrated me and i hope we’ll get to see this change in the coming years, that men and women will get the same treatment when it comes to deciding what they can do with their own bodies.
Hey, that’s not necessarily a bad thing!
Better to evaluate than ignore it… sometimes you need an objective voice or two or three to start the process. You have to decide what YOU really want.
Best – and keep reading the blog…there are tons of conversations here, hope they help!