Is it me or does Australia come across as more “anti-childfree” than most places in the Western world? Seems that whenever I read something touching on childfree-ness or non-parenting (or respect for either) there is something negative about it. It’s not that there isn’t negativity towards the childfree elsewhere… we aren’t yet at that particular utopia.
It’s more that it appears Australian Governmental figures (who are supposed to be there to govern everyone, right?) like to take pot-shots at other Government persons who don’t have children. Actually, taking pot-shots is putting it mildly… in many cases they make no effort to hide their derision for women (and it’s always women) who are childfree.
Take this story for example:
Childless Gillard can’t speak on parental issues
To quote the article, which is chock-full of insults which frankly say more about the front bencher than the person he’s is denigrating:
“LIBERAL frontbencher George Brandis has questioned Julia Gillard’s ability to “understand the way parents think” about virginity because she doesn’t have children. Defending Tony Abbott’s right to discuss the advice he gave to his daughters on virginity, Senator Brandis said the Deputy Prime Minister was a “one-dimensional” person who had “chosen not to be a parent”.
“One dimenensional person?”
“Unable to understand the way parents think about virginity?” because “ this one dimensional person had chosen not to be a parent?”
This isn’t too long after another Australian Liberal politician accused the same childfree politician – Gillard – as being “deliberately barren.” Bad enough when this comes from total strangers. When it comes from so-called politicians?
It seems that not only does he not like childfree women, he also sees them as less than fit for politics. Clearly women have nothing of value to say unless they “have chosen to be a parent.”
But we’d be naive if we thought that kind of thinking was confined to certain Australian politicians. Plenty of parents think that the childfree have no business talking about “child or parent related things” because we don’t have children. ourselves.
I disagree. What do you think?
{ 24 comments… read them below or add one }
If it’s a Liberal (read: conservative) politician speaking, then a good number of Australians don’t take them seriously. Bill Heffernan (he of the “Gillard is deliberately barren” remark) has a track record of saying absolutely idiotic things under parliamentary privilege.
Politics aside, I’ve found Australia a pretty safe place in which to be childfree. People here seem to be understanding of our choice. In my experience, bingos seldom happen, and sterilisation is easily accessed.
I don’t have many friends who are parents, but the parents in my social circle seem to be pretty sensible, and tolerant of my opinion. None of them have given me the “you’re not a parent so what would you know” smackdown.
I’ve never run into that problem personally – I read/comment regularly on a site focusing on “free range parenting” as opposed to “helicopter parenting” and even though I’ve stated I intend to never have kids, I’ve yet to get any of the “well you’re not a parent so you’re opinion doesn’t count” responses, just mostly, “That’s too bad, you sound like you’d make a sensible parent” responses. There are often some interesting discussions about educational philosophies and the need to foster independence in kids, and it’s refreshing to see there are quite a few parents who refuse to let their kids turn into “pwecious little darlings whose every need must be catered to.”
But Jebus. It’s inane to posit that just because one has chosen not to have kids, one’s opinions about matters regarding childcare/child issues have no bearing. I have no kids of my own and never will, but I have nieces, nephews and children of dear friends who I care very much about so I’m damn well going to speak up about matters pertaining to them and expect my opinion to be considered just as much as a parent’s opinion. Not to mention, even “children’s issues” can have direct bearing and effects on adult lives, regardless of whether or not those adults are parents. So yes, the childfree have every right to participate in such discussions & be given equal consideration.
And while I acknowledge that the crap the childfree often have to deal with for making what’s sadly considered an unconventional choice is doled out regardless of sex, there does seem to be a particularly venomous strain of criticism directed especially at women who choose to be childfree. “Deliberately barren?” WTF?? How would they be addressing Gillard if she were a childfree man, “Deliberately sterile”? I’d like to be wrong, but somehow I can’t see these people throwing as much of a hissy-fit if Gillard were male.
Right, Australia’s off my list of holidays to take if I ever have the money!
That’s Australian politics for you. These male politicians have the hide to denigrate Julia Gillard (who by the way I believe would make a better politician than any of the male ones this bloody country has) for not having kids, yet the male politicians actually leave the task of raising children to their wives. All the male ones seem to thank their wives for their ongoing support and how they couldn’t do what they do if it wasn’t for their wives holding the fort at home etc etc.
Funny how these male policitians who don’t do any parenting think that they are capable of developing and implementing these ridiculous policies that financially assist parents and NO other tax payer. By the way, the baby bonus in this country has now gone up to $6,000. Australia, the luck country if you’re a parent!!!!
Oops! I meant to say that I believe Julia Gillard would make a better prime minister than the male ones we’ve had. As an aside, if America can nominate a black president, then surely Australia can vote for a female prime minister!
Most people have children in their lives, even if they haven’t given birth to them or fathered them personally. And I can guarantee that 100% of adults have been a child at one time in their lives, so they are certainly qualified to speak on issues affecting children.
Sounds more like a case of sexist politicians who can’t find any better criticism to make of a female opponent.
I got hung up on “advice he gave to his daughters on virginity.” If my dad had ever tried to talk to me about my virginity when I was a teenager…I would have preferred to shrivel up into a ball and die.
Brandeis sounds like a real prince. Employing his logic, how is he positioned to know what women without children are like, what they know or how they think–since he isn’t one?
And, what makes him a well rounded, multi-dimensional, well integrated personality? Oh, it must be his narrow-minded, sexist, very 1950’s view of women and the world. Is he threatened that there are women who would “just say no” to his pathetic, and undoubtedly defective, genetic offerings? I’m sure that Brandeis would prefer it if Gillard would shuffle back to home and hearth and keep all of her opinions to herself, not just those on parenting.
There are plenty of parents whose sole focus is their child or children to the exclusion of everything and everyone else in the world. Does that not make them one-dimensional?
As has been discussed on this blog, if having children was all that qualified you to be able to parent there would be no abused children. or hungry children or adults with issues due to bad parenting–obviously. Show me the scientific study that proves a correlation between functioning reproductive organs and emotional/psychological balance, ability to empathize/sympathize, intelligence, the ability to reason–and let’s not forget, earn a living.
These are just throwaway comments used to dismiss an opinion or get someone to shut-up. If you can pull out the non-conformist freak label, then you automatically diminish the person and put them on the defensive–if they buy into the game.
I may not have children but I possess common sense and I can see the evidence of what does and doesn’t work as it manifests in a child’s behavior.
I believe that since a large chunk of our taxes go to parents in the form of financial assistance I think we have a right to an opinion, given that a lot of parents these days don’t seem to be able to raise their children with discipline and good manners.
Well done Lee, turning George Brandis’ own logic back on him
Childfree Aussie–I was sorry to learn that Australia also has simpleton politicians. I thought we cornered the market here in the U.S.
Sorry Lee, we’ve actually managed to out-manoeuvre the Yanks on this one
So…”liberal” is a curse word in Australia, too? I’ll admit, I dislike liberals and conservatives who drink too much of their own Kool Aid, but ah…I don’t know, the labels are so tiresome as to be childish. How big and mature of me, but the run leading up to President Obama’s election and especially the health-care debate in the States were very good examples of how bad bipartisan politics can get, and really, just how tiring they can be.
But back to the main subject, with what little I’m familiar with Australian politics, I’m not really surprised. It’s left-hand of being racist towards immigration and for some cruel reason let Paul Hogan escape in the 1980s; what do you expect?
Our government at the moment is really pissing me off. Left wingers voted for the Labor govt, which in Australia is basically the liberal govt but without the ability to manage the economy and with a huge injection of outdated religious ideology, and suddenly we have a) an internet filter in the works (yep, just like China, Saudi Arabia and North Korea – scary) and b) a bunch of religious nut retards running the country.
However the original comments made by Tony Abbot weren’t actually that bad. He just said he’d like his daughters to save their virginity for someone special. Fair enough really. I hear he also said that it’s the “greatest gift you can give someone” though which is frankly, retarded. Letting someone be the first dude to stick it in is *not* the full extent of my worth as a partner. (Luckily!)
The current govt is really scaring me actually – at least the Libs don’t pretend they aren’t conservative. They certainly weren’t anywhere near as prescriptive in terms of what morals the general population should hold.
In general I feel that Australia is becoming a more conservative and less tolerant nation than the one that I grew up in. It’s possible this is just because I’m more aware nowdays, but the current govt is also really starting to bother me.
Not that I should worry – the way things are going over here we’ll probably be in a dictatorship soon enough anyway, so why stress about who to vote for!
All I can say is, the world is going downhill, and there are many many times when I think I am glad that my children won’t be around to see it.
As for Julia – whether I agree with her politics or not, I am incredibly glad that she is around to show women what we are capable of. She is intelligent and, in fact, incredibly well rounded. We need more like her.
Miss Fanny – one of the best bits about travelling in a country is that you see it through rose coloured glasses – you won’t have to worry about the politics. It’s a great place if you don’t watch the news!
Yes Lisa, whilst i don’t subscribe to Julia Gillards political leaning she does come across as a very normal, very rational, well educated women, She tries not to be too emotive about issues. She has been criticised for being “deliberately barren”, however she is also pretty tough and tends to dismiss these things as she probably considers they are not worth replying to and of course they arent.
Well here in Aus you have a baby bonus( its funny in this blog to consider a baby a bonus) which is a payment for the act of giving birth to a child! as a taxpayer funding this I am more than entitled to an opinion as well in spite of being childfree.
However I suspect there is a growing group of people here who are going to be childfree. It is actually a relatively tolerant place so don’t be too fooled by what you might hear but there is overall little questioning or debate of the status quo when it comes to kids, most people seem to have decided here its simply “what you do”
“However I suspect there is a growing group of people here who are going to be childfree.”
Yep, in the younger generations especially. I am 28 and have 6 female friends and 1 male who do not intend to ever have children. Of course, that’s only taking into account the people I’ve spoken to about it, so it’s likely there are more I don’t know about.
A friend (also in her late 20s) of mine has recently started a new relationship with a guy and he at first baulked at the idea of not having kids, but has thought about it and come round to the idea for various reasons. He said he’d never really thought about it before and is relieved that he met someone who had! In contrast my ex never even considered the possibility of not having kids, which ended our relationship. He’s in his 40s, and in his generation it’s just different.
Side note: it would have been lovely if my friend could have met this guy NOT IN THE SAME WEEK that I broke up with my ex. God it hurts to hear her talk about how easy it was to solve the no kids issue. I wish she was a little more sensitive.
Well thats good to hear your friends are thinking about things early and thinking it through hopefully.
Yes I guess it can hurt a lot when you have broken up with someone under those circumstances. I suppose its simply a luck issue for her as it would seem as though she just met the right guy. It does sound like he may have thought about it more than he let on. I guess he just need someone else to confirm his feelings.
Again its just about not questioning things his own upbringing and social circle.
I am an older age group in my late 30s and most of our friends have children. One of our friends who have only recently had two children in quick sucession, actually said to me” i never thought with us it would become all about the kids” well duh he has had a rude awakening!
I think they thought they were somehow special and kids would not affect their relationship, but sadly things deteriorated fairly quickly under the pressure. Eventually they will work through it i suppose.
I can’t believe that a public official would say (out loud) that the childfree are ‘one-dimensional’. That’s horribly offensive. I’m sure some childfree people are one-dimensional, but then again, so are those with children! That’s an individual personality trait, not a descriptive term of a group of people.
“As for Julia – whether I agree with her politics or not, I am incredibly glad that she is around to show women what we are capable of. She is intelligent and, in fact, incredibly well rounded. We need more like her.”
Yep, and Helen Clark showed that it’s possible to be childfree (and outspokenly so), run a country for a decade, and be considered smart enough to take on a high-ranking job at the UN at the end of it. Sounds awfully one dimensional to me. (Helen’s leadership of New Zealand warms the cockles of my black childfree heart …)
Being a woman, Julia Gillard would be in a better position to comment on women losing their virginity than any man. Something that Mr Brandis might have considered, had he put his brain into gear before opening his trap. Ah, it’s good to see that the beer-swilling, mouthbreathing, “get back in the kitchen and make me some pie” Aussie bloke mentality is alive and apparently, thriving… can we just prop this guy in the museum next to the dinosaurs, please and thanks?.
I can’t believe a politician actually said that in public about another woman politician. It’s beyond me to understand.
I completely agree with Kat above, saying that “Being a woman, Julia Gillard would be in a better position to comment on women losing their virginity than any man.” Because, evidently, I can’t imagine any average father chatting with his daughter about this subject. Unless the mother is absent, it’s usually her task of informing and preparing and being a friend for the girl… And most of all, in those moments, you don’t really need a mother as much as a friend.
Anyway, such public comments should be banned according to a law of common sense or something.
http://www.watoday.com.au/opinion/politics/dont-be-rattled-by-the-baby-guilt-trip-20100214-nzb9.html?comments=112#comments
so I was saying that Australia is relatively tolerant, perhaps I was wrong.
Our Prime Minister does not quite have the views I thought he did, but has a childfree Deputy. I am shocked at his comments on womens “duty”. Perhaps you would like to read this link
I would kill miselllf iif I was married to that man!!!! Seriously…. I´m a woman, and as one I am qualified not only to know what losing your virginity feels like, but let me tell you that ley not only let but force therir wives to do all the child rearing. Then they give themselves all the credit, and they even BERATE childfree women!!!!
I am a Finn living in Australia, and I wouldn’t take anything the politicians here say seriously. In fact, recently I remarked that the other parties only role in politics is to say silly enough comments to keep people voting for the Labor Party.
The Gillard case, which was received with flames and fire stone against Tony Abbot was no exception. The politics here work through slandering, which is the only thing I don’t like about Australia.
I don’t think Australians in general are particularly anti-childfree. I was under the impression the Americans are.
The article itself is very demeaning and I do not agree with it. However, in day to day situations, there are times when unsolicited advice from child-free people bothers me, and I just thank them for it and move on. I just think to myself, “I thought like that before I had a kid.” But there’s nothing wrong with not having children, as the article proclaims and that politician is lucky to not have his head kicked in yet.
Hello! I just found your site today and I’m glad for it, as I am also a childfree and Christian [I think you wrote somewhere here that you were Christian too]? I remember reading about this article before on the net.
And to the very question in the title, surely they can! I do debate such topics sometimes too if they bother me somehow… For example I’m against the tradition of piercing babies’ ears because it’s absolutely unnecessary and the babies cannot give their consent to it at that age yet. Grr the parents who do it upset me – your baby is not your toy to do modifications to its body however you please!