The other day I was reading one of my favourite personal development newsletters. A couple of weeks ago they asked this question of their readers: “What makes you happy?”
I expected a range of answers. There are lots of things that make me happy and perhaps because I am childfree they are different from most people. However, until I read the responses I wouldn’t have thought so.
Things that make me happy are any one of the following:
Achieving a goal or having some personal achievement..
Seeing a sunrise or a sunset…
Having a dream come true
An early morning in summer, before anyone else is up (I am an early riser).
Being able to do what I want…
Spending time with family…
Spending time with loved ones and good friends…
and lots of other things. I am a believer in happiness coming from within rather than without.
So I was slightly shocked to read that more than half of the people that responded said that their kids were what gave them happiness. It’s not that children can’t make you happy, of course they can. It was just that with few exceptions everyone said something like:
“My children make me happy…”
“Hearing my daughter or son call me Mommy…”
“Seeing my child smile….”
“Something else…child-related.
A couple of people did mention other things, but they were in the minority.
I wondered, if they hadn’t had children, what would make them happy? Or does it mean that without children they wouldn’t have considered themselves happy. Which would seem in keeping with what we’re generally told (and which isn’t true). I wondered, what else make them happy? Or was it just the accepted thing to say if you have kids?
From a childfree standpoint there’s more to life than kids. Society brainwashes us into believing that happiness must include kids. And for the most part people buy it… even when they should question it.
If you’ve decided not to have kids then you have to make your own happiness. That’s neither good nor bad… it just is. I am happy about that. And my childfree life is something that gives me a lot of happiness just because of the opportunities I have to explore new things.
{ 60 comments… read them below or add one }
My husband is waaaay better than a child. He feels lucky to have me and is never entitled, bratty, or poop-covered. I prefer the kind of happiness that is with a chosen person.
I have to agree! I can say the same of mine. And I am happy that we chose each other for each other and not based on having kids. That may go against popular thinking but I believe it’s the reason we are so happy to have found each other.
Ok, girls, send some of your eligible CF man friends my way : )
I know just what you mean.
Loads of my friends have started having kids now. I keep getting the comments “oh you will be so happy when you have kids” “oh this has just changed my whole perspective on life” (though they cant explain how) while at the same time telling me they havent slept properly for a year, have no money to pay off their winter fuel bills, are still on blood pressure meds/can’t orgasm/getting pain where they had stitches even months later and the worst one for me – that they never get any time with their partners, but thats fine because they have baby now which is more important. That to me is sad. I don’t want to share my mans attentions and affections with anyone, nor do I want to be distracted from him. So then I get the “oh you don;t know what real love is unless you have a baby”. well actually i do thankyou very much and it says more about you than it does about me that you ddnt truly love your partner.
Hilarious! And don’t you love the Facebook posts: “I can’t wait til school starts again!” “Does anybody know how to control a teenager?!” “I got TWO whole hours of sleep last night!!” “Everyone in our house has the flu.” Yeah….sounds dreamy.
With very few exceptions, being around children generally makes me actively UNhappy.
For me, happiness results from small simple pleasures, mostly stemming from my husband’s love or my creative output.
Thank you so much for this article , me and my bf of about a year had a very unpleasant conversation where he simply stated “children ” i plan on talking to him more and this really helped because he was like oh you will change your mind about it but i wont im in my twenties and i know what i want and children definantly isnt the answer . Idont want to waste his time or mine going after something that is going to clash
I once heard it said that if your happiness depends on other people, you will always be disappointed.
This is very true. We are the only ones responsible for our own happiness.
If parents didn’t get joy and happiness from their children, they would tend to abandon them in train stations, or leave them in cars with windows up on hot days, or go to the pub leaving them alone with just a box of matches to play with. Unfortunately, this would result in our species dying out, although some would say that’s not a bad thing.
In other words, child brought happiness is just a way nature uses to perpetuate the species.
Wow! That’s a big leap, from not finding joy and fulfillment in having children after the fact to committing child abuse or abandoning a child. The world isn’t so black and white –though many people do abuse or neglect their children in myriad ways or at least emotionally #uck them up. Anyone who assumes that having a child is a guarantee of happiness probably also believes that getting married is a guarantee of happiness.
As per Henry David Thoreau:
“Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them.”
There’s a difference between slogging along in life pursuing fulfillment in things that are supposed to make you happy and knowing yourself well enough and having the courage to figure out what makes “you” as an individual happy.
Yeah, but you can easily apply the same objectifying logic to *any* interest from which a person can derive happiness. I have an obsession with high-speed trains and run a fairly busy blog surrounding that interest. You could say I am happily entertained running that site with the sole intent of perpetuating that interest to other train geeks. Frankly, that’s really not one of my primary concerns there
So, no, I don’t necessarily agree with you on this one.
John, no they wouldn’t. People are also into self-preservation (probably far more than most realise), so they’ll continue to perpetuate their unhappiness and martyrdom so that they don’t become a poster-child for child abuse, so that they aren’t verbally and physically abused when they leave the house, and so that they do not face any form of criminal charges.
Frankly, I think the last one is what people are most scared of even if many justice systems around the world do not impose particularly harsh sentences upon people who have abused/abandoned/killed their own children, because in the all too frequently used words in the justice system in the UK they have “suffered enough”.
I have to agree Soldatka, I think you hit it right on there. I simply can’t imagine relying someone for my own happiness, and having seen it happen to other people I know how damaging it can be.
Children can be a source of joy and happiness, I don’t argue this, but without children doesn’t mean we are less happy. Happiness is different for everyone and it’s ok to be this way. I don’t understand why there is this label “no children, no happiness”. I’m sure that people with children have invented it!
Happy or busy? I guess it makes you feel a sense of accomplishment to cook for, clean for, teach, discipline, comfort, assist, protect (god, I’m tired already) the kids you created, but that’s not the same as happiness. To me, happiness has to involve a sense of peace, of evolution (mental, physical, emotional), and of making real contributions to the world or even to my own small circle. Simply adding people, then raising them decently leaves us…well, look around.
Kristine–how absolutely dreary right?! Whenever I get in a particularly intense phase of housework, I find myself thinking–GOD this is tedious. I can only imagine with chills down my spine what it’s like shuttling around, cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, packing lunches, educating and nurturing another human 365 a year for over a decade. UUUGGGHHHH! I’m truly glad it is stimulating work for some people because we certainly need good parents but I know I would never find bliss in such endeavors. If the pros outweigh the cons for parents, rock on–but it’s a no brainer to see how they wouldn’t.
As someone who was always and continues to be very content without children, it never occurred to me to have a child to increase my happiness. Whenever I thought about having kids (which wasn’t often) my concern was that having a child would actually decrease my happiness for obvious reasons. If one sits quietly and contemplates HONESTLY the things that make him or her TRULY happy (casting aside societal expectations and feedback from family and friends) if the “joys” of parenting don’t even make it into the top ten, then reproduction probably should not be in the cards. Parenting joy isn’t even in my top twenty, but that’s just me.
It’s SUCH a cliche to say “my kids make me happy” and it’s also safe because no one would dare argue the point because so many people do it–so it must be the thing to do. Right? Right?! And that’s what real women do, according to the patriarchy. Sorry, just not interested in a bunch of dudes defining my reality more than they already do through their complete control of world government and media.
Not to mention the fact that people do a lot of things in this world without thinking and having kids is certainly one of them.
People say nonsense like “my kids make me happy” becaus eif they have kids and omit them from their list of happy-making things, it will be glaringly obvious. And its a standard answer, like Fine to How are you? If you are miserable and unhappy, you still say you are fine. And if you are miserable and unhappy and someone asks what makes you happy, you don’t say, Nothing, my life is a series of imbecile mistakes and I am ready to kill myself. You say, My children.
I think people can make us happy, and my happiness does depend heavily on my husband. But I chose him, and he chose me and he is conscious of my needs and wants to make me happy. Children don’t give a ^&*^&*^ about you or your happiness. They don’t even realize you’re an actual person until they’re 14 or so. But for me, the main reason not to have them is that they will ruin my marriage. I can totally see myself becoming a screeching harpie with to do lists, a billion errands, crankiness and a mom haircut who is too exhausted and angry to have sex or even talk.
When people ask me “How are you?” and the answer is anything but fine, I reply “Ah, don’t ask.” It works. Honesty, right?
If I survived 100 days alone in the jungle I am sure it would create marvelous happiness after it was all over. No matter how great accomplishment, those 100 days would not have been a joy-ride, I feel pretty certain about that.
A person in the 30-40`s wont be fooled by stories about how fantastic childbearing is. Thats why the pressure to reproduce fades as you age. So, its simply all about choice!
Lurker – agree. It really is about choice.
I hate to sound awfully condescending, but I’ve absolutely come to the conclusion that people have kids because they have run out of other ideas. Thus, they think their children is the center of their universe because they have a complete lack of creativity. They can’t imagine any other thing to do with their lives and they can’t think of anything else that could possibly make them happy. This is what makes them generally very uninteresting to talk to.
@Phoena – a colleague of mine used to be very interesting to talk to. Now he’s had a baby, every single conversation somehow veers towards the baby. I’ve had to curtail my conversations because I know it’s not just going to be “how’s the baby?” any conversation is just so predicatable. It’s so irritating. I don’t think people realize how talking endlessly about their kids makes them so uninteresting to talk to. Perhaps that’s because they only talk to other parents about the same stuff.
Lee: “Sorry, just not interested in a bunch of dudes defining my reality more than they already do through their complete control of world government and media.”
Even as a man this is not far from some of my thinking. I have no intention to let politicians and leaders define my life anymore than what is absolutely necessary. In addition I do not want to become a slave to any women simply because she gave birth to a child I am the father to.
As I stood in the line at the shopping-mall this weekend I realized that to follow the “standard script” would make me severely unhappy. Even if I found children adorable, that lifestyle is not for me!
Meh, so there are plenty of people who derive happiness from their children. So what? From the wording of the post description of the “happiness list,” it seems a pretty general listing of just…everything that makes people happy…in general. Was there more to this post that *wasn’t* included?
Im almost 40 and no kids. It seems babies are everywhere but here. Certain times of the year make me think about it more. I was rather obseesed for a while because my bil had twins which made them 4 kids The oldest ws 15 then. Of ocurse late mil gushed. I finally come to my sense and quit obsessing about children. This was nothing personal against mil anyone. During my mother andlate mil time, you were just expected to be married and have kids so I excuse mil. Families should be supportive regardless of your situation and choices. Some want them but no luck yet like me. . But it something I can learn to live without. Why cant eveyrbody else? Yet society brainwashes you into thinking kids are blessingn and bring happiness. Reality TV is full of big family shows like 19 Kids and Counting. They call children ‘blessings and gifts from God’. If children are blessings and bring happiness, explain the Gosselins.
I was writing about something similar in my own blog and a quick research lead me to yours. I don’t know if I will ever have children, sometimes I think I will, in the present moment me and my husband have other dreams that take priority. I’m 31.
What shocks me more about moms and dads is their disrespect for babies (= little human beings that they CHOSE to create), when they often decide to get pregnant without planning ahead, and then spend all their lives complaining, expecting we will feel sorry for them.
Don’t these women and men research about cars when they want to buy a car? Or houses when they want to buy one? Don’t they think about doing the same and find out how much it takes financially, emotionally and physically, to have a new baby in their lives that’s going to live with them for at least 18 years – probably much more? (BEFORE they get pregnant?)
Vanessa, most do much MORE research when they plan to buy a car or a house or go on holiday. I know bringing up children is hard.. one only has to look around. And I know that it can be rewarding, of course it can.
But, like you I don’t understand why, after insisting they must have kids they then complain all the time about how hard it is… well, duh.. what did they THINK it was going to be? Oh, wait, they didn’t. After all, having kids is “just what you do isn’t it?”
Hi, I thought I would share my personal experience on this: I remember when I was a child how heavy the bourden of being expected to make my mother happy was. I know she didn’t want me to feel this way, she probably never realised how stressful it was. Most often it was other people that would come and tell me things like “don’t upset your mother” and stuff like that.
She passed away about ten years ago and I still feel guilty about never making her happy. I think that she hoped having children would make her happy but I was not the healthy, happy child she probably had expected…
Maybe it’s not the same thing to rely on someone for your happiness and to just state the fact that someone makes you happy. But I’ve seen many parents being emotionally attached to their children in a most unhealthy way. And should you dare to tell them that, you get a long speech about how they looove their children and how you just don’t understand and how dare you tell them how to rase their children etc…
Sorry for your mom.
Agree completely. I had the same experience with my mother, although she was very explicit that I was suppose to make *her* happy and, doing so, deserve the food I ate and the house I lived in, etc, etc…
I don’t talk to her since I decided to stop feeling guilty for her miserable soul and moved to Ireland.
Soon after that, my parents got a divorce.
My father was never a good father… but I never stopped visiting him. Now my father is not talking to me much, he’s angry because I don’t want to give *him* grandchildren.
Arrrgghhhh… some people shouldn’t have the right to be parents.
Most parents, even if they don’t admit, expect their children to make them happy in one way or another. After all, they had them. There are exceptions, of course. People have children “to make them happy” to make a situation happier” like mend a marriage (supposedly) or to “have somebody to love” or whatever the reason of the moment is. So when it turns out the children don’t make them happy (in fact quite the reverse) they get angry. Problem is they put that anger on the children… I know some parents who never stop telling their children how much they sacrificed for them (and hence how much the children owe them for that sacrifice). The expectation of those children is intense.
Hi,
I think I need some help…
I feel I never understood men, but I was always on and off relationships (ended by me) so I thought I must know something about men… … that I could know enough to make them happy, to know that men like to be free, do sports, live life. And what I admire most about men is their practical mind – I tend to think women think too much. I know I do.
Okay… so here’s my problem, I’ll try to be brief.
I always thought I wanted to have children of my own because I took care of them when I was younger and loved how they made me feel. I loved how children are simple and honest. I loved how I could be myself and not think too much when I was taking care of them. I loved the fact that I felt intelligent around them, that I had so much to offer a child – and I started thinking like this ALSO because people told me I would be a great mother one day, that I was a natural at it, because I can take care of a crying child without stressing and eventually I always find a way to get through and calm her. Even when the child is a brat.
I always thought that, if I’m a natural at it, and if I enjoy it I would be a mother one day.
In the past I was in a long relationship and deep inside I knew I didn’t love him, but I cared for him very much – he was ‘perfect’: very good looking, steady job, madly in love with me, very caring…. am I boring you? Sadly, that’s how I felt. I felt guilty and for that I thought there was something wrong with me. I never told him.
I thought that maybe all I needed was a child to get my natural nurturing ability out and feel more connected with my partner. We were together for 4 years in total. We tried to get pregnant in the last 2 years, after which I decided to end the relation because it wasn’t fair for any of us, I didn’t love him enough, I should let him go and find someone right for him.
By then, we were what I call ‘very good friends’. We had two dogs that we loved very much and we did several things together and with the dogs tagging along. Everyone thought we were the image of the perfect couple – he thought it as well. We were always hugging and I did like to hug him. So no one understood when I ended it.
I was, and still am for many people, a bitch.
After we broke up I was very stressed. I missed my dogs – who he had given away without telling me where they were. I cried myself to sleep every night, I felt I was going mad, always stressed and I started thinking about sex a lot.
I really thought I was going crazy.
I thought that was why my menstruation stopped. It was only after months without menstruation that I decided to do a blood test. I was 3 moths pregnant, from my ex. I was scared but I immediately knew I couldn’t start to have feelings for the baby yet so I talked to my ex and asked what was his opinion. He said that no child of his would come from a separated couple and that I MUST do an abortion and go ALONE, because he was too busy and couldn’t miss a day of work.
He looked sideways at me while I was talking, like I had a disease, but later he called me crying, trying to get back together, and I understood he just couldn’t cope with it.
I, alone, did the abortion.
I didn’t feel guilty for doing it. I knew it was the best thing to do for the sake of that unborn child. But I felt like I just lost something. It was very sad, irrationally sad. I talked with 2 of my friends about it a lot. I think that first year after the abortion I must have been a very boring friend. But the thing is one of these friends, who had been my friend for years, started to get very close to me, always calling me and asking me to go out with him. I went. We talked a lot.
After some months we started to date. After 1 year and a half to started to live together.
After 2 years I started to say I wanted to have a child in the near future and he agreed that it would be a good idea.
After 2.5 years we got married and I said we should have a child and he agreed. When I stopped taking the pill because of an infection and said, after I was okay, ‘Let’s not use condoms, lets have a baby’ His world stopped, he looked at me with big opened eyes and asked: ‘What, NOW???”
We talked, we yelled, we talked about breaking up – I felt betrayed. He said he meant to only have a baby when we was in his 30s (he was 26), not now. He said he thought I was talking about ‘having a baby someday….’
I felt depressed. Some people told me he was a child and I just had to wait a few years, that he would come to his senses. But I never saw him as a child so even when I tried to see him that way… I talked to him about this, calmly, and he said he thought he was the opposite of a child, that not having a child soon was a very smart and adult decision.
I love him. He said I must choose: having him or going away and having a child on my own. I chose him. I asked him to remind me everyday of the things we could do now, without children. That if he wanted to enjoy live, well then, lets do it. That if I couldn’t have a baby now, then let it be for a good reason!
And so we did. We are very happy together. But I was thinking about having a baby, waiting in my mind until he reached 30 and every time I had my menstruation I felt sad: ‘another opportunity I lost’.
I hate to feel like a bad wife and a depressed woman, so I always tried to convince myself of the good things I have for not having a baby yet, but it was only when, trying my best, I searched for ‘live with no kids’ – and after scrolling down miserable sad un-pregnant women – that I found blogs about childfree people.
I read for days. I remember the first day I thought: ‘I don’t have to have a baby! I can continue to not worry about money and live this life forever!’, and I started jumping in the middle of the living room.
I didn’t understand why I was so happy, I just knew I was. Only after reading more I understood that I always wanted a child for all the wrong reasons.
- To pass on my knowledge on life,
- to feel connected with something amazingly special (disregarding I had that already),
- so that people see me as an accomplished woman,
- to create jealousy to certain people in my family (who think I’m nothing without one),
- to fulfill some odd moments when I’m depressed for some reason…. etc…
I still feel I have a lot to give to a child. I still feel I would do a great mother. For me a baby crying endlessly is a challenge – I take on other babies/children to quiet them with my magic power… aaarrgghhhh… even if I had magic powers, what a vain reason to have babies, right? Me, me, me!
So, with a big smile, I said to my husband that I understood him when he said he wanted to wait and enjoy life.
He was very very very happy.
Then I talked about childfree blogs and ideas and he was happy but had an odd facial expression on his face, like he was talking to a weird addict person or something.
Then, some days later, I told him that in fact when he reaches 30 I will be almost 35 and he said that he understands, that I could have one at 38 and have more time to enjoy life. That nowadays it’s all possible. He imagined me having a baby at 38… and talked about it while I was silent in horror.
(?????)
I said that I was thinking of the possibility of NEVER having a child. Now HE was he horror, it was all over his face, but he said: ‘I prefer the idea of never having a kid than having one now…….’
But I was not convinced.
I smiled but from that day he continues to talk about my wonderful natural ability to be strong no matter what and to adapted, and that I could surely take care of a child at 38 and that a child of ours would be very well behaved because we are very calm people… … He said on several occasions that if I had had my exs baby he would had never dated me. He said he wanted a kid at 30, never at 26. And now that I’ve adapted so much to the idea that I discovered I don’t need a baby, he seems to want everything his way, again, and wants me to have a kid at 38.
Will he ever change his mind? He’s dreaming when he thinks he is sure a child of ours will always be well behaved and that for that reason it will be heaven. I’m sure that if he knew that’s not the case he wouldn’t want kids. I’m hopping I can make him change his mind with time, like he made me change mine :S
WILL I EVER UNDERSTAND MEN ???
Ok, this is so bloody long and boring that I couldn’t even get through half. How about, I had an abortion after a break up, met a new guy, got married and we started to discuss children? How is this “I’ll try and be brief???” If you are going to write a Tolstoy novel, at least dont start it with “I will be brief.” Gak.
I think you should ask if you’ll ever understand YOURSELF, first, before blaming men. I’m sorry, but I’m having a hard time really believing you don’t want kids. What I’m getting is you didn’t like that he wanted to wait, which makes sense if he has career aspirations or some financial or personal goals. I get the impression this hurt your feelings for some reason and you wanted to find a way to get back at him. Don’t want kids now? Fine. How about NEVER?! That kind of thing. Now that he’s signed the marriage contract, you are using your magic baby box as a tool to hurt him and control the relationship. I hope I’m wrong, but it sounds like you are immature, irresponsible and like to use reproductive means to manipulate men.
Did your husband know when he married you about the abortion from the pregnancy with the man you didn’t love? Knowing a woman would try to have a child with a man she didn’t love would probably be a deal-breaker for most sensible men. He said he wouldn’t have married you if had the kid, after all. How honest with him were you before the marriage? How honest are you being with him now?
I agree with that most people have kids for the wrong reasons and that’s why the urban landscape is littered with broken marriages and fractured and dysfunctional families. For most people, having kids it is a self-delusional ego trip that they are neither emotionally or financially prepared to handle. Some people understand the sacrifice and actively make the decision knowing it’s going to be the hardest thing they’ve ever done, and soldier on when a child is born. That’s pretty rare, from what I’ve seen.
If you no longer want a child because you now have a mature grasp on what is truly involved in being a parent, then SALUTE! More people should hold off if they aren’t willing to make huge sacrifices. From reading your post, though, I don’t think you know what you want and the not-wanting-to-have-kids perspective could be a temporary thing. A good test is to ask yourself if you are willing to have your tubes tied. I would suggest your husband get a vasectomy, but he wants kids, so that’s out. Would you be willing to take the step of tubal ligation? How does the thought of that self-sterilization make you feel? I’m not actually advocating you have the procedure done, but it is food for thought.
If he still really wants kids in a few years and you still don’t, then I think divorce is inevitable for you two. Even if he comes around to your way of thinking (provided you haven’t changed) there’s going to be resentment and that alone can kill a marriage unless both parties are willing to work very hard to save the relationship.
You are right – you do need help. Please get counseling for your individual problems, first, though.
“For most people, having kids it is a self-delusional ego trip that they are neither emotionally or financially prepared to handle. ”
A very apt description!
Relationships are hard enough as it is… Not agreeing in the having kids issue i surely a big problem and I think I can understand your confusion a bit because I’ve been in a similar situation (and still am actually). I don’t really want kids but my husband does and we’ve discussed it a lot. It’s not always easy to know what you want but it’s important to find out what you really want regardless what your husband wants! I think it’s good that you at least talk about it.
In my case it’s a little complicated because I don’t feel I really have a choise to have kids due to many many health issues and other reasons. I didn’t have theese problems when I married, things change… I don’t know what will happen with my marriage but I hope it will work out.
You don’t have to have kids if you don’t want to, it kan be good to remember that. I hope it will work out for you two and that you find out what you really want.
Take care!
I forgot to say this was a reply to: “I don’t understand men!”
Thanks for your comments.
I don’t think I need help in the way a mentally disable person does though. I think everyone grows up and discovers things about themselves between 20 and 30 and what I’ve told you covers an even bigger distance in years.
Yes, my husband knew I tried to get pregnant because I thought it would save a relationship when I was younger – we were friends at the time. Yes, we talked and still talk about everything. He doesn’t think I’m trying to manipulate him, he thinks I tried to understand his views and respect him for not wanting a baby now and that at the moment I’m thinking about the subject myself, and that it is a wise thing to do and not a dumb thing at all.
We talk, we think, that’s human and healthy.
Yes, I made wrong decisions in the past, haven’t you?
I made good ones as well. I’m just honest.
Sorry about the size, it was the first time I wrote about it. Will not happen again, sorry.
PS: I’m not blaming men for anything. I never did. *I* don’t understand men = it’s *my* problem.
“I dont understand men”: Thanks for sharing (not..)…I think you are more than confused..
Okay guys, I’m getting how nice and positive and open minded, people around here usually are. If a woman wasn’t born chilfree-minded, she much have some agenda in her mind or be crazy-confused when she thinks about not to have a baby anymore. And surely, she much be a manipulative bitch.
There are many interpretations you can take from my life’s story. You can chose to see the bad things, like being in a relashionship with someone I cared, which I ended.
If I was a confused manipulative bitch I could have said yes when he asked me to be with him and have the child, I didn’t. He then gave the dogs away as a revenge and never could find them again. And I still didn’t do anything against him I understood he needed time to forget me and space.
I could have insisted with my husband to have a baby soon because I asked him *before* we got married and he agreed that we should have one soon. And then after the marriage he said he didn’t mean it… I could think HE is the manipulative one.
But you know what? I don’t immediately assume that everyone around me has an agenda or is a manipulative person. I think people have feelings and deal with them the best they can.
Thanks for your comment Artemis. I hope everything works out for you. Me and my husband are doing great. At the time we both agree that we just want to enjoy life. No baby talk anymore.
Will not comment here again guys. No worries.
I think the people here are very open-minded and positive. However, folks here will give it to you ‘ like it is’ – or rather, how each person thinks things are. What you read in the comments are just opinions, and obviously everyone has their own particular biases. I couldn’t get exactly where you were going with your initial post. As great as the internet is for communication, it can be difficult infer the finer subtleties of what someone said when it’s just pixels on a screen. What I said wasn’t a personal attack, but my immediate reaction to what I read. Looking back now, I don’t think I fully understood what you were getting at. From what I read, you seemed to be complaining about a situation largely of your own making. I am guilty of that just about everyday. The best advice I usually get from friends is usually something I don’t want to hear. I find that instead of taking my side, they tell me to get over it and learn from your mistakes. Most of the time, my friends are right.
I apologize if I came down hard on you. You’ve obviously been through a lot and I’m sure there are lingering regrets, doubts, guilt, etc. I am glad you and your husband have reached an understanding. Marriages, like any relationship, require work and some level of compromise and for most things, that compromise is usually no big deal. Reproduction is the one topic where there’s no grey area or middle-ground, but there is a ton of miscommunication, personal and societal deception, mixed motives, you name it. This topic evokes strong emotions and even stronger discussion. I think you should stick around and comment as you see fit. It’s all part of the conversation.
Take care.
Thanks SG.
But you are right, it’s difficult to understand one another over the internet and english is not even my first language. That’s why I think I shouldn’t write crazy-long entries and you should try to give positive advice, without calling bad names, none of our attitudes helped anyone who comes here for advice. I would cut my story in 1/8 part if I could but it is done and published.
I’m like you. I learn as well. I liked my ex-boyfriend, just didn’t loved him enought I guess. I learned, that’s why I did the abortion – and that’s not easy. That’s why I adapted to my husband’s idea of ‘enjoy life now, no babies’. I adapted in such a way that I’m thinking about being childfree forever or until my reasons for wanting a child are NOT the right ones. I have learned that they were not.
Take care SG, no harm done.
(From: I don’t understand men)
Thanks for sharing your story… I have to say I thought you had about 5 stories in the one and it was hard for me to follow your stream of consciousness – but thanks for taking the time to share anyway. Stick around, there’s a lot to gain from sharing in the conversation here.
This is great! I always wondered about people who said their kids make them happy, because unless you are a single parent – what about their spouse/significant other?? Being a single person, that is the reason I don’t want to date anyone with children because I would always be second or even further down the list….probably after their children, pets, and possibly favorite electronic device or something as well…..geez!!
I am totally on board the ChildFree movement!
C:
Your comment reminded me of a colleague at work, pregnant 5 months.
She said: “I’m glad it’s not twins, because I would be very afraid of loving one and not loving the other.”
I said: “Anna, of course you’ll love both, they would be little babies, both yours…”
Anna: “No… I really think I wouldn’t have the energy to love both… I think I would always love one more.”
What about the husband then?…I thought.
The husband gets demoted. At least temporarily.
I was thinking about the replies my post gotten – this kind of thing is maybe one reason why the childfree are so derided and ridiculed. The blog post sounds so whiny, making it appear we are jealous of those with kids.
Personally I can sometimes be jealous of those who have kids but not because they have kids but because of the way they become accepted in society. They get to hear “now you are a mom = a good girl” but if you don’t have kids or even worse if you don’t even want to have any then you could as well be a piece of garbage. There are people that will question your right to even exist as a woman without being a mom. Not all people of course but many. Too many…
I don’t know what it’s like in other countrys, I live in Sweden and right now it seems to be very popular to have kids and there are mamma-blogs everywhere and moms are screeming “look at me, I have a child! I have a chiiild!”. It’s also a plus if you are really young as well and there are blogs with names like “14 years old and preagnant” or ” 17 years old and a (proud) mother of 3″. Some call themselves “babysname mom” instead of using their own names…
I don’t know why this feels wrong to me but it does. They seem to think that all this fuss is a way to show how much they love their kid but what does the kid get out of this?
So yes I can sometimes be jealous of them getting all this attention and me getting pity, but I can live with that. I just don’t like it.
I don’ t have a problem admitting that at times, I’m jealous of my friends who seem to have taken fatherhood in stride. For many of them, being a father seems to be a good fit. They look tired and stressed, but happy. These are usually the fathers of younger kids (infants to kindergarten-age children). The fathers of teens, however, are usually ready for the kids to grow up and get out and are quite outspoken about it. They are generally tired of the melodrama of adolescence and are weary of the financial drain. I can tell they can’t wait for it to be over. That’s the deal with being a parent: You have to deal with all phases of human development, and you never get a break from it. I’m definitely not jealous of that.
If people are honest, they can see every reason to be jealous of a parent is countered and negated by a reason why having children should be avoided.
SG – Interesting… do you want to be a father/parent then? Do you wish it was a great fit for you? I can’t quite understand why you’d be jealous if you’re happy with your own choice. I’ve never felt jealous of the tired and stressed parents I see (regardless of how happy they seem)… nor the happy parents either. In face seeing those stress levels was a big part of my decision not to have kids. Most people never make a choice when it comes to children. They just have them and by default they become fathers. So they’d better rise up to the task and get on with it and do the best they can for their kids because those kids aren’t going anywhere… and they deserve the best.
Thanks for your comment though…it inspired (at least in part) my latest article
I think you hit the nail on the head, Britgirl. I wish I wanted it. I wish it would be a great fit, but I know, deep down inside, I’m not really parent material and I don’t want children. Fatherhood is not something I naturally want – not now or in the past. Even though my wife, who is probably past her fertile years, and I are trying to have a child (as I’ve stated here several times before), I wouldn’t choose this path if it didn’t mean so much to her. It has been a mind-bender for me to even consider deliberately trying to make another human life. Just thinking about it crushes all romantic feelings, so I have to push the thought of making a kid out of mind when we go for the… err.. gold, as it were. The stresses involved in just trying to have a kid, both financial (worthless medical treatments) and emotional are incredible because of her age. I told my wife yesterday, I don’t even want to talk about it any more. “Just let me know in advance when it’s time to try,” was all I said. If we start the topic up, it invariably leads down a road I don’t want to be on.
When I really think about it, I’m most jealous of the new fathers and fathers-to-be that seem to be excited and happy they are now taking on parenthood. I know I’m only seeing half the story (maybe not even half), but for me, I can’t help but feel like that they are better husbands than me for some intangible reason. I suppose I feel jealous or resentful because my wife did get pregnant two years ago, but she miscarried and hasn’t been able to conceive since . At the time, I was neither excited nor happy. I wanted a chance to go back in time to prevent the pregnancy, but all I could do was try to be supportive. I tried to pretend having a child would be great, but I am a lousy liar and actor. My wife knew how I felt, but she was pregnant and wanted to have the baby. I felt so helpless, but it was a prison of my own making and I could only blame myself. Then the miscarriage, then the guilt. For two years I’ve felt a ton of guilt for being such a heel and have been trying to find some way to make things right even though my wife doesn’t blame me or anything like that. I just want to be a supportive husband and I guess I wish I was like the men who seem to think fatherhood is great.
I have a friend who is going to be a first-time father soon and we have had so many chats about this topic that I decided it was time to stop talking to him because I don’t want to rain on his parade and he thinks I’m insane. He used to not want kids either, but now thinks it’s the greatest thing ever. When my wife was pregnant, I didn’t think it was great. I thought it was a disaster in the making. It felt like the end of the world was happening and I couldn’t do a thing to stop it. I don’t know what changed his mind, but he’s handled things much better than I did. I wish I had handled things more like him, I guess.
I have to confess were my wife to announce she was pregnant tomorrow, I would immediately feel the same way I did before, even though I would be glad for her and would try to be more positive. I would not want the child, but I would be glad she had another chance. If she had a kid, I’d try to be a loving father.
I have wasted so much of my own time, money and energy on this enterprise. I’m weary of trying to have a kid, trying to measure up to some ridiculous societal standard of manhood, and trying to convince my friend and others that life is actually better without the drain. I have to say that since I stopped talking to my friend, life has gotten markedly better. I spend less time trying to defend my position and more time focusing on work, personal interests and just enjoying the life I have now. I hope my friend has a healthy child and he and his wife are happy, but I don’t really plan on talking to him ever again outside of a ‘congratulations’ when his wife gives birth. I’ll send them a gift (he lives a couple of states away from me) and then I hope I never hear or see from him or his family again. I don’t think we’ll have anything to talk about and it will be too easy for me to be a jerk. Once your friends have kids, the old relationships you have with them are over and you might as well be dead to them anyway (as it should be, I guess).
Sorry for the novel, folks. I need an editor.
How is saying we don’t want kids, don’t like them, are soooo glad we don’t have them, etc. making it seems like we are envious of people who to us, have ruined their lives, bodies and relationships? I don’t get that.
Parents should realize that it is not a persoality flaw to complain about how unhappy their kids can make them. Even the most pro-kid, parenting-ovin’ person has their times when their children just drive them absolutely up the wall. Unfortunately, few want to bring that subject up for fear of being thought of as a horrible person. It just makes them human. It would also go a long way in stopping to promote the fantasy that parenting is only purpose than anyone should have in this world.
I understand your point-of-view,
but I think parents do admit it. That’s how we know they are stressed and unhappy. I even know parents that say (too often) if they knew what they know now they would wait until their mid-30s.
Yes, but they don’t admit it enough. It’s still a taboo subject to admit any regret at all about having kids. There are places they admit it (on certain blogs where over 700 responses showed how unhappy many parents were) but in general it is still a very well kept secret and for the most part all you get from parents unless you know them quite well is that having kids is the best thing you’ll ever do and it’s well worth “everything.”
Also, I actually think the older one waits to have children, the harder it is (aside from the health risks) so waiting until one’s mid 30’s doesn’t really seem to be a solution. Personally, I am more impressed when parents say “if I knew then what I know now I wouldn’t have had kids at all.”
Hear, hear, Hillari.
Whoops, please excuse the typos in the last one I wrote — the words should read “personality” and “lovin’”.
Ah, I understand better now. I didn’t link your previous posting with this last…it makes sense after reading this. Thanks for sharing but what a lot of pressure you must be living under! I sense a lot of pain, unhappiness and frustration there…. However you can’t make yourself want something when you don’t and never have. Having a baby in your situation seems a rather big price to pay to prove your love for your wife. What happens if she does get pregnant you have a baby with all the realities that brings? Kids need and deserve to be wanted 100% by both parents. I remember my husband telling me if I really wanted kids he would do his very best to be a good father. But we both knew he didn’t really want them. As it happened neither did I but sometimes wonder how things would have been if I’d insisted because I knew I could have. If he didn’t want them there was no way I was going to make him have them.
You make a good point about relationships with former friends. Once they begin having kids any previous relationship with them is over. And for your own sanity you need to keep your distance. Glad you’ve been able to do that. Lots of food for thought in your post.
Thank you. It’s been a stressful few years and I tend to go OCD on these kinds of things, which doesn’t help. We are managing, though. My wife has handled it better than me, I think. This experience has really been an eye-opener and a thought-provoker. Like it Is has helped a great deal. Thank you for providing this blog.