I thought this was such an interesting comment I decided it would be a brilliant childfree article in its own right. Heather actually commented on So You Don’t Have Kids? Be Grateful which in itself garnered over 50 comments. Older posts tend to get rather buried, though so it’s a good refresher for that childfree post too.
Heather’s also looking for feedback from our childfree community so here’s an opportunity to comment on what I think is a very real dilemma with potentially far reaching consequences – whichever way you look at it. I personally don’t think there are any easy answers. But I’m going to add my thoughts a little later.
Over to you – and thanks Heather for sharing your very interesting story with us.
“I found your forum due to the fact that my fiancé dropped a huge bomb on me two days ago. After 5 years of telling me he DID want a child (he did this on his own accord and with out any pressure from me. He even broke up with a girl once because she didn’t want a child) he changed his mind and told me he now he doesn’t want any ever. I will say since he and I have had multiple conversations about this, I didn’t handle it well when he told me this new bit of information. I was mostly angry with him because I had never thought of what life would be like with out a child; and my parents have already spent a ton of money on our wedding and I’ve bought my wedding dress. We had the conversation about having kids before; but never the conversation about what would happen if we didn’t. I felt like he was selfish for not thinking about this sooner and putting me in this position; however, I’m happy he told me this BEFORE we were married.
Now, I am a very nurturing person, I always have been. I helped my mom basically raise my baby sister because my father traveled all of the time and my mom suffers from depression and couldn’t handle my energizer bunny like little sister at times. I’ve always babysat, and at one point I was a nanny. Since I was young I’ve always been told, “What a good mommy you’ll make!” So, I guess I just adopted that idea as my own.
When my fiancé said he didn’t want children anymore, I’ll admit, I freaked out. But now, I’ve have been MADE to take a moment and pause and to think. You know, I’m 26 and still have so many things to achieve. Not to mention I’m a people pleaser and I could see losing myself in a child because I would be paranoid about not being a perfect mom. I love my mom 100%, and I know she loves me, but I think part of the reason she was so depressed was because she had 3 very needy little girls, a husband that was away at LEAST 40% of the time, and no time for herself. I love my mom, but I don’t want to be her.I mean I have no desire for a child right now at all; I’m just worried I might later. My relationship with my fiancé isn’t lacking; we are usually much more comfortable and in love with one another then almost all of our friends. I think I might really be ok with not having kids.
Feedback about this would be awesome. Cause I know if I go through with this, everyone and their brother is going to be telling me I’m making a mistake.”
Heather
{ 39 comments… read them below or add one }
I added my typo-ridden comments in the other article, but I’ll chime in again to say how much I admire Heather for bringing this topic up . I’m glad Britgirl underlined the importance of this by making it an article in its own right. I think a lot of marriages get off on the wrong foot because people are afraid to be open and honest about how they feel about becoming parents. Divorce rates and broken homes seem to confirm this. Looking forward to others’ comments.
SG – and add to that the often unrealistic expectations of others that become accepted by the two people even if deep down they don’t really agree with them. Needs courage to challenge the status quo but our responsibility to do so when it’s required.
I’m all for not having kids – I don’t like them and can’t imagine how anyone does. However, this situation reeks of disaster and regrets. What kind of feminine-freshness-wash-product drops a bomb like that after a wedding is paid for? This is totally not ok. And although the wedding is paid for, I would strongly advise a postponement of the wedding. If you always wanted kids, and you still have 15 years of fertility, you will revert to wanting kids. This is not a decision of a childfree person realizing she is childfree. This is the compromise of a cornered person realizing she is in love and her parents just plowed what, 30 grand? into this relationship that SHE vouched for.
Well said. Interesting reflection, too, on the obscenity that is modern chattel aspect of marriage. One wonders why the need to spend $20-60 thousand dollars celebrating this strange institution at all. I am not against committed relationships between people, just notice that among other things the concept of marriage and children persists even though humans have so completely outbred the planet’s ability to house and feed us. And, of course, this doesn’t even touch the fact that a religious rite of giving a woman to a man before god is used as the qualification for obtaining services, perks and rights under the laws of the country. Which makes no sense given that the USA was founded upon the fundamental principle that religion was to be separate from the civil rights conferred upon all citizens equally. Pee-eww. Something stinks and it ain’t being child free.
you funny
Heather is right to be concerned. The fact she’s seeking out the opinions of others suggests she lacks confidence in her decision and the future of the relationship. She acknowledges that many people are hesitant to throw their support to the situation given this bombshell. Simply put – the boyfriend seems prone to dramatic changes of mind.
One has to ask – what if 5 years from now, the boyfriend changes his mind again when Heather is comfortable with her child-free status? Or, what if Heather realizes that she “settled” out of some misguided sense of loyalty to the relationship and the expensive wedding event?
Heather is wise to evaluate but it would be more prudent to postpone. Counselling might really facilitate a better understanding of motivations and compatibility.
Many couples have parenthood foisted upon them because of “accidents,” but Heather is now face to face with the choice before leaping in.
That being said, Heather can still be a nurturer and involved with the welfare and upbringing of children. There are many agencies crying out for the assistance of giving and committed volunteers. Parenthood is not the only way to contribute meaningfully in the life of a child. Heather has already acknowledged that she doesn’t want to be her mother. She doesn’t have to take the parenting route – it’s not for everyone. Plus, once one has a baby, it’s not as though there’s a 30-day money-back return on it.
I wish Heather well and admire her courage to question.
Being child-free for me, has been wonderful. I would never want to give it up for the drudgery of parenthood and all of the financial and emotional investment that go into raising a child. I have no regrets.
“Counselling might really facilitate a better understanding of motivations and compatibility.”
Doesn’t anyone just talk to each other anymore? Although your comment about Heather having a lack of confidence would suggest she might be incapable of even that.
Before marrying a man that does not want children, you need to be very sure you can see your life being happy without children in the long term. Think ahead 5 years when near all your friends have had children and your mother is asking why you haven’t yet. Think ahead 15 years when you fertile phase in life is near ending. Think ahead to retirement age (maybe retire early because you have more money saved since you didn’t have kids), think ahead to old age.
Another point I have to make, is for you to realize that a man who is just now figuring this out, might have a lot more things left to figure out in his life. How mature and ready for marriage is he, if he is still developing his views on family so drastically? Just because you two have a lot of fun together and get along well, doesn’t mean he has figured out what he wants out of life yet. Shared dreams are very important.
I am a woman who after my first marriage ended, realized I no longer wanted or longed for children, due to a chronic illness, I realized I would not be very good at caring for them. My second husband is very much a childfree person and has been since youth. I was very sure when I married him I don’t want children. I like you babysat a lot, cared for my little brother, and had a depressed mother who struggled to love us when we were more than she could handle. That influenced my final decision to be childfree for life. I didn’t have to wonder what different stages of my life would look like childfree because I have three childfree Aunts and Uncles. They seem very satisfied with their lives and are able to devote a lot of time to their mother (my grandmother) in her old age.
I have plenty of children in my life and I am very happy seeing kids a few days a week rather than all the time. I get all the sleep my body needs and I can attend to all my favorite hobbies and devote a lot of positive energy to my career.
There are definitely pros to being childfree, but it is not a decision to be made lightly. If you want children you will probably want to have them in the next ten years. Don’t get into a marriage that could be destroyed at some point by either one of you changing your mind and the other one not. You are young and could easily find another awesome boyfriend who wants to have children if that is something you desire.
Really hope Heather reads this. So many good points made here, CFLife.
I cant help to wonder why the boyfriend suddenly changed his mind about this matter. Is it really kids he tries to escape?
I believe what my eyes and ears tell me. Because in my opinion one needs to be both blind and deaf to not see how unhappy and worn out most parents look like. In addition there is no escape from parenthood. But Heather might regret if she makes a decision for the wrong reasons.
I am not sure if I still have the energy it takes to become a good parent, even if I wanted to..thats quite scary but tells me I made the right choice.
Lurker… true, perhaps it’s more. But perhaps he’s also had a glimpse into the future and seen what childrearing really means. A complete life change that’s bigger than the life-change that comes with marriage and much, much more work.
Many guys simply go along (or get dragged along) with the marriage-meanz-kidz for a quiet life, because saying you don’t want kids, even for men, is like launching an atomic bomb. Sanity is questioned. There’s talk of immaturity. Sex for pleasure… well, forget that. It can be a high price to pay for questioning the status quo and not that many men are interested in paying it. Besides, many men think they want kids…it’s implied that getting married means kids – until or unless they really think hard about what having kids really means to them. That of course needs to happen way in advance of marriage plans.
There is a reason he’s changed his mind…. it might help Heather understand better if he shared what it was.
I wonder… in my husband’s case he doesn’t ever want to biologically reproduce, but he’s open to the idea of fostering children or adopting. Would your fiance ever be open to the idea of fostering, Heather? That way you could have a big impact on children’s lives without necessarily having to give birth. Of course, in my case my husband and I both have never wanted to have kids, although I did worry that because we met when I was 19 and were married when I was 23, that I’d change my mind later and come to regret marrying someone who didn’t want kids. So far… I am 31 and my friends all seem to have at least one, and I still don’t want ‘em. The true test is when everyone you know is giving birth, how that makes you feel. Jealous? Or…in my case, annoyed, because I selfishly don’t want my friends to get wrapped up in their kids as I know they will, and my relationship with them to change.
Oh boy, I’m rambling…
I don’t think it’s s ramble, Lisbet. I think you’ve hit the one thing that might make a normally stalwart CF-person falter and question their resolve. When you lose one friend after another to parenthood, it’s normal to feel like the odd person out. When you try to articulate why you want to avoid parenthood at all costs, you’re belittled and ostracized, even though your arguments are never actually countered with anything more than a ‘Well, you’ll regret it. You’ll see.’ We all want to be part of the tribe, in one way or another, and the easiest way to belong in society is to perpetuate the tribe with new members. You then have skin in the game and are therefore acceptable to the group despite other usually glaring flaws. It’s usually the trend-buckers, however, that lead the most interesting and fulfilling lives. Nothing satisfies more than knowing you are living life on your own terms (as much as that is truly possible) and are not letting some arbitrary definition of happiness shape how you live. The freedom to choose the horizon you want to sail towards is indescribable.
Put the wedding on hold. Now. Kids are a deal breaker and marriage breaker. BOTH of you need to be 100% sure about what you want. If those wants are not compatible, then you need to go your separate ways, and take comfort in the fact that you settled this before you put yourself in a doomed marriage. If you truly and deeply evaluate your wants, AND you are compatible, then your marriage will be all the stronger.
I don’t know that the guy is a “douche” (it’s not a swear word, it’s okay to use it!). If he realized he was wrong when he said he wanted kids, he SHOULD tell her, preferably before the wedding! Would he have been less douche-y to tell her after? Seriously?
The options are pretty simple, even if the feelings aren’t. Since Heather is not in a hurry to have a baby right away, she can:
1) If the relationship is good enough, marry him and see if either changes their minds. In this day and age, marriages aren’t life-time commitments, anyway, so if five years down the line they can’t resolve the issue, they can split up, but they might have had some great times together in the meantime. Divorce is not that big of a deal.
2) Cancel the wedding but stay together with the guy for a while, seeing if either changes their mind. They can both explore more about what childfreedom means and what parenthood means, and then decide.
3) If she is convinced she does want children and doesn’t want to waste time deciding if he’ll change his mind back, then she can break up now and move on.
Just because people don’t initially agree on this topic doesn’t automatically mean they have to break up. I’ve been married for many years to a wonderful guy who, when we first met, said he wanted kids. But I had so much fun with him I didn’t break up with him right away. I figured we’d have some fun while it lasted. Now, all these years later, we’re still together and both in total agreement about childfreedom. If I’d blown him off when we first met for saying he saw himself having kids, it would have been the biggest mistake of my life. I’m glad I waited it out and gave the relationship a chance.
Lisbet had a really good point here, too: “The true test is when everyone you know is giving birth, how that makes you feel.”
” Divorce is not that big of a deal.”
Really? On that point I disagree with you. I personally think divorce is still a big deal, certainly to many who’ve been through or are going through it or those affected by the fallout. Of the people I know who’ve been through a divorce none of them would describe it as “not that big of a deal.”
I do agree that disagreement over the issue of having children doesn’t have to signal an immediate breakup. Time to discuss can sometimes work wonders.
I don’t think the (U.S.) divorce rate would be so high if it WAS a big deal. Obviously a lot of Americans have no problem with it, and no one is stigmatized for it, even people who have had two, three or four divorces, at least not in the U.S. Other countries might have more stigma surrounding it and it might be a “bad” thing, but not in my country.
For the majority of the population in the U.S., they don’t see marriage as a lifetime commitment anymore, and “starter marriages” are all the rage.
I wasn’t particularly referring to divorce stigma,nor it being a “bad thing” nor do I think high divorce rates are the exclusive preserve of the U.S. I also don’t buy that opinion equals fact or that it necessarily correlates to mean that divorce isn’t a big deal for those affected by it – despite our use-it-up-throw-it-away-and-move-on society. People can go through a divorce/s and it can still be a big deal – to them.
I whole-heartedly agree divorce is a big deal. It was for me. Better to flush a huge amount of money on a wedding that never takes place than to marry and have everything cave-in years, or sometimes months, later, as seems to be the norm. Maybe not everyone feels that way, but I was almost willing to never marry again simply because it meant there’d never be the possibility for a divorce (and my divorce was nothing compared to some I know about). I’m glad I took a chance and re-married, because I think I found the person I should be with forever, but I almost didn’t do it simply because I didn’t want to risk another crash-and-burn.
The issue of being childfree/deciding not to have kids is a deal-breaker. I wouldn’t go into a marriage aiming to change the other party.Women always think men will change but they don’t. Men think women won’t change, but they do. You need to agree on this one before you get married – so that would mean calling off the wedding until you’ve had a chance to talk about the issue and allow it to take as long as it takes. There is no way to tell what you will feel years down the line. If you really want children and are prepared for what it entails you should have them. But you need to be sure that your reasons for wanting them are your own, not the suggestions of family, friends and society at large. Baby sitting is a world away from actual parenting. And you need both parents 100% committed. You also need both of you committed to being childfree – if that’s what you decide. If you are both committed you’re less likely to be looking around every corner wondering if you’re going to want kids or not.
Others have made some great comments… and one of the key ones is that it’s better you know what your fiance thinks now than later – after you’ve married. And good on you for taking a step back to consider – and realizing that this isn’t something that can be brushed over. You are 26 and you do have time… on the other hand if you want kids as someone’s already said earlier is better. Keep us posted, I’m interested in what you decide to do.
Something similar happened to a friend of mine. In her case, the man indicated that he no longer wanted children, after numerous discussions stating that he did want them over 5 years, and knowing that my friend wanted children from day one in their relationship. When my friend, after soul searching, decided that she loved him more than she wanted children and would stay in the relationship, it turned out that the change of heart was a tool for him to extract himself from the relationship that he no longer wanted (and have it be her choice – cowardly). Now – this isn’t necessarily what is happening in your case – maybe he has pre-wedding jitters and wants to make sure you love him, and aren’t with him just to reproduce. I would personally be more worried about the flip-flop from the extreme of wanting children so badly that he would end a relationship over the issue to not wanting them at all. My advice is to think of whether you want to be in a relationship at all with a man who can change from one extreme to the other without anything apparent triggering the change.
Choosing not to have kids is a decision you can ALWAYS go back on. Even if it is biologically too late there are millions of kids out their desperate for loving homes that want them (be it foster care or adoption).
Once you have kids however there’s no backsies. Given human nature (we’re pretty much wired to regret our choices no matter what we choose), personally I’d rather regret not having them (and then decide what to do about that if anything) than regret having them and be stuck with them.
Heather, only you know in your heart what’s right for you, but in my experience, women who have misgivings or hesitations about motherhood always come to regret choosing it. Time and again I see strong, independent women cave to what their husbands want, or their families, or their extended families, or societal pressure, etc. A year later and they find themselves miserable, saddled with a screaming baby they’re fast learning to resent.
It’s only those who are 100% positive that parenting is the career they want for themselves who seem (seem, mind you) satisfied with their choice.
This isn’t something you want to have even a sliver of doubt about. Like Wix said, there are no backsies.
Keep thinking about what a life free of children would mean. Keep thinking about the possibilities, the opportunities that would open up to you if you could do whatever you wanted for the rest of your life. If that doesn’t make your heart pound with excitement and relief, you probably do want to be a parent.
great points
ohhhh thank you. I broke up with my boyfriend a few months ago over this, but the breakup was a complete failure and we’re back together, with all the same issues. I’m seriously considering backing down – mainly on the basis that I love having a family and know that I’ll miss having one. But when you said “It’s only those who are 100% positive that parenting is the career they want for themselves who seem (seem, mind you) satisfied with their choice.” I was ricocheted back to the obvious: you can’t just have a kid cos your guy wants one.
siiighhhh
Not having kids doesn’t mean you don’t have a family – unless you believe that families of two are not families and only people with kids have families. Think about it. And if you don’t have kids now how do you know you will miss having them?.
I wonder, like Blondeheretic, if he is not using this as a tool to get out of the relationship. He goes back on something that is a dealbreaker so that she has to dump him. Leaves him looking a bit better than just breaking it off at the last minute.
I have been CF all my life, never wanted children for a nano-second. I married a man who did and who thought he could change my mind. He couldn’t, it ended in divorce. We did talk about it prior to getting married and I have never swayed in my life choice. It annoys me that he thought I was so feeble minded that I would “come around to his way of thinking”, Ugh!
Put the wedding off and find out what this is all about is my advice.
The fact is that people change, and it’s normal to be like that. I, on the other hand didn’t want children, didn’t like children, and now I find myself thinking that i could want children. So, who knows maybe your fiance will change, or maybe you will.
Anyway, I think that marriage is much more than children, because when the children are gone to collage, there’s once again the two of you. So, if you love each other you should get married, and later on you’ll figure it all out together
I think most of us are so biased we couldn’t possibly advise anyone on the subject. When I think of children I think of myself as exhausted, broke, unhappy, scattered, tied down, unappreciated, and the rest of those related adjectives — basically, the complete opposite of my life as it is now. I am SO happy when I meet men who don’t want families. The idea of sharing a life with someone where we can focus on each other, spend our time and money how we like (and not just on luxuries, but on helping causes we care about), travel, stay fit and healthy, and just keep growing as individuals is really exciting. It’s just one viewpoint, but you may find something you can relate to in it.
It’s refreshing to hear someone THINK about whether motherhood is the right decision. So many people fall into it without a thought about what it will require for 18+ years. Congrats, Heather, for giving it real consideration.
Deciding to have a child is a very big decision, and I don’t think it can really work out if the other party is not ready to have one. I guess in time with enough persuasion he might actually come around to the idea. I don’t think forcing the matter would really do any good. Not much you can do now that you have spent all that for the wedding, but I do believe that you don’t break up with a soul mate who gets you just because he does not want children. If he feels that you feel strongly about it, he will eventually come around and give in.
Can we leave the New Age B.S. out of it, please? The concept of “soul mates” is utter horse hockey.
mmm little concerned at Customs comments. Saying that he will come around and give in is pretty strange comment in the context of this blog. Giving in to having children is exactly what childfee is not about….unless I am reading your comments incorrectly. As for the money spend well I say cut your losses.
“soul mates” – you’d have to ask yourself, if you wanted children, wouldn’t your “soulmate” want them too? if not, doesn’t it kind of defeat the purpose of having a soulmate at all?
;p
I think we never really know 100% how we’re going to feel down the road, the best we can do is go in with our eyes open. Just be aware of what your future could entail and the compromises you may have to make. There are no guarantees, especially with marriage, but if he’s the right guy and you feel you guys can figure this out down the road then go for it. You’ll regret it more if you don’t take the chance.
Has anyone ever heard of/read/used this book? I’m curious about it and I wonder if it’s helpful…
“I Want A Baby, He Doesn’t: How Both Partners Can Make The Right Decision At The Right Time.”
http://www.amazon.com/Want-Baby-He-Doesnt-Partners/dp/B001QCX7NI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1276126308&sr=8-1
“Product Description
It is commonly acknowledged that men and women argue more about money, sex and childrearing than anything else. Yet while there are many books on those important issues, there isn’t a book available on a fourth major issue that is often more emotionally charged than the first three: what to do when the woman wants a baby and the man doesn’t. Until now. I Want a Baby, He Doesn’t – from a woman who has personally experienced and mutually resolved, this issue with her husband and a licensed marital therapist – advises couples on how to work with each other to reach the best possible resolution without destroying the relationship. Whether it’s merely a matter of timing, emotional unreadiness, financial challenges, or a deeper issue between a man and woman, I Want a Baby, He Doesn’t is completely unbiased in its approach as it helps couples arrive at the right decision as partners – even if it means waiting until both are ready or discovering in some situations that the best solution is deciding not to have children at all.”
I haven’t looked at this before, but my first thought is: If it’s so “unbiased”, why doesn’t it consider that SHE might be the one who doesn’t want a kid and HE might be the one who does?!
I am a strange sort. The kind of person that never thought about NOT having kids. I always though I would. I was married for a few years and kept putting it off, thinking I needed to enjoy the time I had with my husband, the clock is not ticking and so on. 7 years into it, I realized I just couldn’t do it ( this is after we seperated, mind you) so I’m glad now that I didn’t cave on the subject before. I think people ( women especially) spend a lot of time being something for someone else. It’s second nature to us. The responisible kid, the reliable spouse, the cook, the maid, the hardworker, the homemaker and breadwinner as well. I think we have the tendancy to be everything to everyone we care about around us and having kids is another part of that. I see so many woman that are so caught up in being so many different people everyday, they forget to just be themselves. They forget the book they wanted to finish, the painting lessons they wanted, the places they wanted to see…all unless its on someone elses itinerary. Maybe it’s just me, but it seems to be so many moms I know that it scares me. It made me want to take a step back and see what it was I wanted to be, to stop and discover new things, new parts of my own personality and to be constantly evolving, learning more about me. The only reason I mention this, is I think its an important part of life, this bit of self discovery, before we commit ourselves (some person we’re not sure of anyway) to any particular viewpoint, including parenthood and marraige.
Heather could get a million comments – but in the end she’s the only one who can decide if she can/cannot live without children. It is a personal decision. All my life, since I can remember, I knew I did not want to have children of my own. Attended women only schools where all the girls dreamed of the perfect wedding and 2 or 3 children and I still knew I did not want my own. Now, almost 37 years old, with the fertility window closing in on me, I still know I don’t want children of my own.
Most people tell me I’m an incredibly selfish person for not wanting to have kids. I tell them if I was selfish I’d have 2 or 3 to take care of me when I’m old. Being the only woman of my family who just packed up and moved to the US guarantees that I’ll be alone in my senior years. It is scary, but doesn’t justify to give birth so I’m taken care of as I age.
Heather, my point is, talk to yourself. You are the only one who truly knows if you can or cannot live without children. Don’t make this decision for your boyfriend – you are only in your 20’s. Make this decision on your own.
My girlfriend and I are thinking a lot about this right now, we’ve never been interested in having children, but until recently it wasn’t really something we thought about because we were young enough that it was a non issue. Now that we are older and those in our peer group have begun having children, we both feel 99% we want to be permenantly Childfree. However, being in our mid 20’s there still is a sliver of doubt that ANY feeling we have on ANY topic are going to be our permenant feelings. I’m sure a large part of this is due to bingo-ing we now get as we speak to people openly about our feelings on kids, but it’s still really hard to deal with the notion in the back of your mind that it’s still to early in our lives to say how we feel one way or the other.