Yes, Virginia There Are nice childfree people
This post caught my eye today so I thought I’d blog it while I’m in a writing mood. Probably if my last post hadn’t been about asking how the childfree come across I might have missed it, but as it happened I was curious to see what someone else was writing about on the topic what’s fast becoming chidlfree PR. Not.
Actually, I’m not so sure there’s a “childfree movement.” There are people who are childfree who often gather in like places and so on, but a “movement?” Makes me think of some organized group out to turn everyone to their way of thinking. Don’t think so. If anything, it’s the mommy movement that seeks to get everyone to have kids because they had kids and can’t conceive (sorry, pun intended) of anyone not wanting to have them.
Overall the childfree just want to be left in peace to get on with their lives… and not have to endure endless babble about babies, pregnancy and other child centred topics not inquisitive questions about their reproductive choice.
But I digress. Last post I asked (asked, mind) how we childfree people come across to our (and other ) publics. Varying responses which you can check out on the actual article.
Imagine my surprise then to read this post Yes, Virginia There Are nice childfree people . I must say that while I agreed with some of the post some made me wonder if childfree people are completely misunderstood. Maybe I just hit the mother-lode (oops, bad choice of words) and this is a bigger problem than we know (or care about). Firstly (laying aside the way it’s said) if you are childfree in a pro-natalist world might well sit around and talk politics and what not. Unlike where parents talk only about parenting and their kids, the childfree people I know talk about other stuff. But, being childfree of course you are going to talk about the things that bug you… as people have said that’s what forums are for. So this line…
Ironically, most childfree discussion boards are disconcertingly chocked full of petty gripes and complaints about the topics of conversation someone like me would precisely hope to avoid: purportedly nefarious children and their allegedly negligent parents. The voices vary, ranging from vague disgruntlement to flat-out venomous rage. Amidst this oft-scary diatribe, every now and then a lone, elusive voice will surface and there will be that moment of “A-ha! Kinship!”
Not most, some. And they are not all petty gripes and complaints to the people making them. They may be petty to the reader.
However, what do you think of this?
In the grandest scheme of things, the childfree movement has a serious P.R. Problem and it’s not going away until more seasoned, reasonable voices are heard over the angry shoutings of militants. That the image of this collective comes across as not only misanthropic but sometimes the genre of folk most run across the street to avoid puts it at a greater disadvantage than it realizes. The more obnoxious and vengeful childfree’ers create the stereotype. This is precisely why the “childfree movement” is currently given roughly the same amount of respect and credibility as hardline 9/11 “truthers,” cultists awaiting the mothership and the Klan. When the backlash against this movement comes–and I feel it eventually will–the outcome will be quite bleak.
Ouchie!
Is this true?
I must admit I wasn’t quite sure how to take this, so I am interested in your thoughts. But I can say that if society at large fails to have respect for childfree people it’s because they can’t understand their wish not to procreate like everyone else does. And we all know that motherhood is seen as the ultimate achievement for a woman… still… second only to caring for others to show we’re still nurturing types who would have had kids if only we could.
That of course puts childfree people lower in pecking order. I doubt that those dishing out the scraps of respect have any experience of either childfree people offline or even online in forums.
But has she a point? I certainly do not advocate childfree people seeking to become acceptable and palatable to others… that would mean we all worship at the alter of motherhood, fatherhood and sainthood – same difference.
On the other hand we live in a world that does not understand our choice and if we want it to be accepted I’m not convinced a negative stereotypical image is going to get us there. Someone said as much in a comment on our previous post.
For the record there ARE obnoxious, rude kids running wild in places and I see plenty of negligent parents. And there are good kids and great parents. And let’s not forget the parents who whinge and complain about how hard bringing up kids is and expect you to sympathize with them. You know what? Suck it up buttercup. YOU had the kids. Quit whinging and get on with it.
Yes, Virginia There Are nice childfree people
The last second to last and last paragraph of the post may give you a clue. And based on that I’d say the writer would feel uncomfortable in most childfree spaces… yep, even here.
Plenty of childfree people like or love children to varying extents. And that’s fine. Probably less likely to wax lyrical about the wonder of kids and parenting etc, etc on a childfree blog… because frankly that’s what we want to escape from – we hear it ad naseum from the childed day in and day out.
In the end though being childfree is a lifestyle choice and rarely one taken lightly. I would hazard a guess that most childfree people are not even online. I know that most people do not know a single person who is childfree… while we are surrounded by images that say parenting is the only way. Some childfree people may rant and rave… not everyone does.
So, PR problem? Do you want to be known as a “nice childfree person?” Or just a person worthy of respect just like any other person. What does “nice” mean anyway? Or is it a case of “don’t like it, get lost…?” Perhaps Unwilling Raconteuer isn’t really childfree at all.. but someone who has more in common with parenting?
Read the post and share your thoughts.
Be nice now…(joking, just be yourself).
Thot… it convinces me even more that parent-friendly childfree blogs are an oxymoron. I’ve never been convinced you can please both groups in one space.
{ 39 comments… read them below or add one }
What are parents doing delving into childfree forums anyways? Of course they are public spaces. But so are forums for various small religions, and hobbyists. When someone comes onto a forum for the small religion I belong to and starts preaching their way and calling us bad. It is considered rude. Of course within that space we complain about the religionists who refuse to understand or tolerate us, and always push their way on us. That is what our space is for! We of course discuss lots of other issues too. But childfree is more narrowly focused. Basically, it is a single focus issue, and when we go to a forum to talk about it will be about how much we like being childfree, how hard it is to find recognition and respect, and how irritating and irresponsible many people are that leads to us dealing with more than the share we chose to take on.
When we chose to not have children, we did not automatically choose to pick up the slack for all the people who won’t parent their children.
Regarding whether Unwilling Raconteuer is indeed child-free. I’ve seen the term so narrowly defined on internet “venting” forums as to become useless outside of the context of those very forums. The definitions excluded those who may have dated parents or otherwise developed any of the more complicated associations with children that living can easily bring.
My father partnered with a childless woman for 30 years beginning when I was 5 and ending when she passed away. We had a testy and distant relationship as I grew up, and she never assumed any parental role. Our relationship improved once I reached adulthood and independence. She was child-free by any reasonable definition. Certainly by mine.
My own reasons for being child-free match Unwilling Raconteuer’s pretty well. Two disabled parents, one challenged sister with I child she couldn’t support. My life has been such that I am very sensitive to feeling “trapped.” So kids are definitely out, but partner relationships can be rocky too. I first heard the term “child-free” during the research phase of my vasectomy preparation. I have no way of knowing if I would be child-free had my life experience been different. But by virtue of circumstance, here I am.
So am I insufficiently child-free because circumstance may have led me here, rather than something more intrinsic? I don’t necessarily believe there is anything more intrinsic than the me taken after my experiences. But I will say that I share one more trait with Unwilling Raconteuer. Upon discovering the child-free communities online and reading the discussions, I was also surprised at how much the discussion revolved around parenting and how little around living the child-free life. That’s not to say I don’t enjoy it. It’s just a little more narrowly focused than I thought it would be.
Honestly…I was surprised anyone actually thought of the CF as having some kind of “movement” in the first place! The whole “movement” being compared to the 9/11 “truthist” groups (and the wheels on the bus go round-and-round, round-and-round) is kind of flattering; in its own perverse, naive way. The “truthers” like to think they have some sort of common denominator in which to call themselves a a “movement.” They, like Sarah Palin and her Tea Party, like to bluster about and make a lot of hot air about things they think they’re trying to comprehend…but the CF? I don’t know of any CF groups (except comic/Star Wars conventions, perhaps) renting out huge convention halls to spout its messages.
Sadly, I don’t know if enough folk are even aware that a person can choose a childfree life style for there to be any kind of PR problem. I don’t doubt a large percentage of pro-children people who are aware of the CF choice think the CF are cranks and crazies, which is about par for the course. Humans on the ‘us’ team always tend to think the worst of humans on the ‘them’ team. Great topic.
I would really like to live in a society where it doesn’t matter if you have/want or not children. We shouldn’t be labeled as childfree or with children… we are different persons with different desires and needs. Why is so hard to respect this?
Hello,
do you know if childfree group ou places does exist in London ?
Thank you for your answer !
Laure
I think that people need to consider the source. Do I think that every parent is a crappy person who doesn’t give a shit about other people or their children’s behaviour? No. I’ve certainly met some idiots who should have been sterilized at birth, but that doesn’t mean that I assume that everyone is like them.
People need to vent. People need a place where they can express themselves. It doesn’t have to be *this* place, but having forums where you bitch about living in a child-centric world serves a purpose – it gives us a place to blow off steam!
Also, I don’t think that we should be apologizing all the time. What we can do (if we want to further CF aims) is further mutually beneficial messages. Everyone wants to be able to take time off for the important things in their lives. No one likes to be disturbed while enjoying something that they paid for when they chose a venue that would seem to ensure that they would enjoy their activity. We need to insist that our aims are actually the same as their aims and that we think everyone should be treated equally when it comes to benefits, working schedules and other things our society tends to favour the childed about.
I’m pretty sure that no matter how rational, mature, and intelligent childfree people are, there are still going to be people out there who think we are godless lunatics trying to end the world. I think most liberal political parties have the exact same PR problem.
I recognized the author when I went to the link, so I know at least one forum she frequents. (There may be others, but it’s the only one I read.) That forum is a moderate childfree forum, nowhere near the level of the hardcore ones, but there is a lot of venting. She’s talked about a childfree movement there and gotten mixed responses to the idea… some people didn’t think there was one (or needed to be one), some thought it was a good idea, some dismissed it because they don’t want to pander — as they saw it — to parents/pro-natalists because they have to do that enough as it is.
I agree that a negative image isn’t good, but I also agree that it’s very mentally beneficial for us to have a place to vent, get advice and help, and just relax among people who understand. For some people, it’s the only place they’ve got–they’re surrounded by people who tell them they’re wrong, bad, broken, or disgusting.
But it does come with something of a price. A mother recently posted on that forum talking about the negative image of the childfree. Her wording was poor, and she got a lot of people riled up (especially after comparing the childfree to racists). I think she went way too far in her comparisons, but the negative image had a point… when someone gets curious about the childfree and does an internet search, it’s not hard to find venom. Though I was pleased to do a quick google search and the first two pages looked like glossary/supportive sites much more than immediately obvious venom.
I don’t know. But I admit I like the forum I frequent pretty much as it is. It isn’t all kid/parent-bashing, and I’m glad of it. I think I would have gotten bored and left by now if it were.
i don’t understand why this has to be a movement. it seems more like a choice than anything else.
No one has actually said exactly why it’s a movement Jason. But it is definitely a choice.
I could not help to feel that some of the comments in the original article was written by the ancestors of Goebbels.
I do not know if my reasons to be CF are genetic, environmental influenced, the wish to choose a different path, indolence or maybe “its true” that I am a bad/evil “untermench”.
I read hours of blogs and posts in several CF online communities when I tried to explain myself why kids are not for me. Thebritgirl blog has been one of the best ( go through the archives if you wonder why..) but also the more “militant” blogs made a contribution when I was looking for answers.
Personally I refuse to be stigmatized into a group just because I do not have kids and I do not feel I am part of a movement.
Everybody have a choice. And if more people chose to not have kids the planet would become a better place.
Isn’t a movement indicative of actively seeking converts? I would really like it if people I like didn’t go on to have kids, just so we could stay friends, but I have never brought that up as a request. I can’t imagine that anyone would.
As far as simply being CF and not talking about it or venting so as to avoid negative PR – it’s pretty hard to do. The topic of children comes up often, or actual children intrude into our lives. My husband has two, and luckily they are in a different country, but everything related to their existence is a sourse of friction and anger. Its not that I enjoy discussing them or am looking to promote the CF lifestyle or somehow get publicity for the cause, its that when I have to deal with those children, I usually need an outlet to vent. My husband can’t be that outlet because he feels guilty and we both know that can’t undo them, or he would have. So ranting about his mistakes is not really a solution. Internet forums are. Its not really possible to be so completely CF as to be insulated totally from children and all the problems they bring. Most of us will have days ruined by children, and most of us don’t care about this incredibly important group called “children” to always hold our tongue. At least not online.
There’s a comment on this post that made me wonder… do the childfree only talk about parents and children that much? I’ve never really thought about it, but most of the annoying things that we vent about are about things that either parents have said or that kids have done. I think being overly careful about what we say because we’re afraid of negative PR isn’t the way to go. Like you say, it’s hard not to vent and why shouldn’t we?
On the other hand it occurs to me that perhaps there are other things the childfree can talk about as well, perhaps there are childfree people uninterested in the venting but looking for tips on how to live a the childfree life successfully… when everyone is telling them they can’t (got to have kids to be meaningful).
Thinking about it, maybe we need to give less of our energy to talking about parents and children and put some of the focus on other things?
I’d really like to see more of that sort of discussion. Some posts that have been good on here are the ones that revolve around maintaining friendships with people once they have kids, and other challenges that being childfree can raise.
Currently most of my close girlfriends are childfree, though some are fence sitters and others would change their mind if they met a man who wanted kids. But I’m hoping that I won’t have to suffer the loss of too many friendships. Many though, will, and it would be nice to talk more about how to maintain those friendships, rather than just complaining about those that were lost.
I’d also love to hear from more older childfree people – the ones who DIDN’T “change their mind someday”. I wish there were more of them out there – but I suppose they’re probably too busy living it up in the Bahamas like I intend to! haha
I’d like to see more discussion on regrets and fears as well. What WILL we do when we’re old? Will we actually be better off because we’ll have the money to live well, and will have a lifetime of carefully cultivated friendships to sustain us? Or will we be lonely and disconnected from the world? What happens if our spouse dies an untimely death and we are left alone, with only childed friends? Aren’t other people scared that some of the bingoes might actually be true?
What about a sense of family? Do we miss being part of a stable, solid unit? If we have siblings, do we want them to have kids so that we’ll still have kids in our life, just not our own? (For me the answer to that is yes!)
What do we do with our time, how do we choose to live out the lives we have chosen to give ourselves the resources for? Does not having children affect our hobbies, travel, etc? Does anyone else feel a sense of responsibility to themselves. For me, being childfree makes me feel that I should work even harder to enjoy my life and really live it, since I am not being held back by any of the excuses that most people use for why they live a mediocre existence.
A very badly constructed post, but there you have it: a brain dump of what I’d like to talk about more with other childfree people…
Some great ideas there Mary, thanks for commenting. Watch for the next couple of posts.
I guess I’d say that I am actively seeking converts. It’s in a more subtle way than in most movements, but I feel like it is worth being vocal about my choice to be an example of a better option.
Perhaps I just can’t believe I am that different from most other people. I feel like when people tell you they really want kids, what they actually must mean is, “I want something to do with my life, and kids are the most obvious thing.”
Having a kid because you can’t think of anything better to do is bad for you and bad for the kids, and that’s something worth proselytizing about a little bit. Once you eliminate the most obvious option, figuring out what to do with your life can be scary. You have to make something up from scratch. You look for support and reassurance. You seek out like minded people.
I also advocate it for environmental reasons, of course.
Seems like a movement to me. And if it is a movement, maybe it should be a little less reactionary, or more inspiring, or something. I don’t know. I’m new to this.
When I think of a movement I think of people trying to convert people to their way of thought, and pretty actively at that and offline, not just online. I don’t see any childfree people doing that, in fact you wouldn’t even know they were childfree unless you asked them because, unlike most parents we don’t define ourselves by our reproduction. On the other hand parents are always trying to convert childfree people (or people without kids) to having kids. If they are not called a movement then I see no reason for being childfree to be called one either.
My opinion is that if a blog/forum/whatever frames itself as childfree, it’s hard to avoid saying things that don’t come off as negative to the childed or to more sensitive CF people. Because that’s (children or lack thereof) is a frequent topic, almost by definition.
I have a couple of blogs related to activities that I enjoy. I’ve never once mentioned that I’m CF on those blogs. They’re just chronicles of my activities. I must say there is no way I could do those activities if I had kids, but I don’t frame my entries as, “I was able to take this amazing trip because I don’t have kids!” which (while phrased differently) could come across as more positive, but I’m sure there are people who would still take offense.
Another thing is that the CF have so many different interests, so the one thing that holds a CF forum together is the lack of kids. Sure, forumites can talk about activities that they are able to enjoy because they don’t have kids, but the vast majority of the posters will not be too interested in hearing about this scarf I just knit (that’s why I joined a craft forum) or a beer I just brewed (brewing forum), etc.
To me, it’s kind of similar to the fact that there aren’t too many atheist meet-ups. Everyone is so different — what would we do, sit around and talk about a lack of belief in god?
Great points Mary – due to the diversity of CF people, what we tend to discuss is what we have in common – common gripes as well as observations. I also agree with others, we find online to be a safe place for our gripes as we know that in everyday social situations these comments/observations wouldn’t be allowed.
And I think that by having to keep our mouths shut and stewing all the way home by the time it gets posted online we are really fuming!
To have children is selfish and it is pathetic to hear someone claim a different reason. More important, its a choice! So to attack those who chose CF is even more pathetic. PR-problem? Do we need PR at all, I just want to live my life, but without kids. Its really not extraordinary.
I have to admit that I’m a more extreme example of the CF’er. I don’t like children. Their very presence makes me uncomfortable, and I fail to see why the hell anyone would ever want them. I’m not going to be caught dead playing “nice auntie” or “kiss mommy ass”, and if anyone thinks that gives me a PR problem, too bad. I’m not out to impress anyone, and if it bothers you that I don’t fawn over kids and the parental lifestyle – tough. I don’t need approval for how I live my life. If the writer likes kids and likes hanging out with families, then all power to her, but it would drive me batshit insane.
What is this “movement” of which she speaks? There is no “movement” that I can see, being that a “movement” would imply, as others have said, that we were actively out to change the world. What I have started to see over the last few years is more a consciousness – that parenting is not for everyone, that these are bad times to be bringing up children, that maybe there are other paths in life that would suit better. To my way of thinking, this level of self awareness is a vast improvement over a mindless imperative. As for the promised “backlash” – um, what? Are they going to get the internet police to shut down all the nasty anti-mommy boards? Are they going to make it illegal to have a uterus and not use it? Puh-lease. The backlash arrived a long time ago, right along with mat leave, baby bonuses, property tax hikes and tax breaks for “families”. We get the “backlash” every time we go to a family BBQ, or get cornered at work. We know about the “backlash” and if the writer hasn’t felt it yet, trust me, it’s coming.
I also belong to a great CF forum where yes, we do bitch about terrible parents, bratty kids, and family members who just don’t get it and never stop reminding us. But we also talk about travel, hobbies, arts and culture, our beloved animals, ageing parents, a healthy dose of politics, and current events as they relate to being CF. I’d suggest that if the writer thinks that ranting and vitriol are all the CF forums are about, that maybe she should look beyond the first page of her Google results.
Children are the blessing of God if you don’t have pray for bur never feel shame on this soom
Censoring our words and their content lest we offend the sensitivities of the non-cf cannot by any stretch of the imagination be a way to gain acceptance. At least that’s my opinion. So some people are starting to notice that we exist, that there are some (online) gathering places we have created for ourselves, and that they can’t or won’t whole-heartedly agree with what they read. Oh well. If we now start giving in to self-censorship “for PR reasons”, we’ll have given them a handle to control us with. Say or do anything the non-cf don’t like and they’ll pull the “bad PR” card. Non-cf already IS the standard and I’m relatively certain it will always REMAIN the standard in terms of ‘standard’ = what the majority wants or does. What the non-cf desperately don’t need to be is the yardstick by which the cf measure their words, actions and feelings. I also won’t believe that any group in power – and that’s the non-cf from a political, social, idealistic and majority standpoint – will yield an inch unless they have to, and most certainly not “because the others are so nice and diplomatic”. If we’re being diplomatic, you could argue that it is to further our cause – to be understood – and not hurt ourselves in the process. But why is diplomacy even required?? We are not so abhorrent that we must temper our views to make them palatable. If we do it anyway, we’re reinforcing the notion that we are abnormal and must make an effort to conform to the norm, the implication being that we’re “bad”, pathological or [insert negative stereotype]. That would be pandering to the non-cf. And by the way: I see no evidence that the favour is returned – no parent I’ve ever met personally seems to have thought about the effect their words and/or actions might have on me as a cf person.
I wish there were a movement. I would love it if there were a proper antidote to the baby-mania that has swept the planet. I want to convert as many people as possible to stop at two children, preferably stop at one. I don’t think we’ll convince anyone that wants children not to have any, and I wouldn’t want to. Just don’t have so many!
Hi–author of Families of Two here…cf can be considered a “movement” in the sense that there has been a growing number of us over the last 30ish years, and since the advent of the internet, with all of the discussion forums, blogs and the like, we have more of a collective voice, and that is a great thing. I agree there is a place to vent and rant but should be done on sites that are only for the cf and have more of a “door” to get in. Overall, ranting is unproductive from the standpoint of working toward society truly accepting the cf choice. Let’s face it–in so many ways cf and parents just don’t understand each other. Ranting makes it worse. I want parents to come to my blog and be challenged with discussion that helps them understand the choice and those who make it in a way that doesn’t present us as bitching and moaning or getting them all defensive. I wish could say this for some parent sites who pitch you know what on the cf…the ranting goes both ways, which just perpetuates the cycle of negative judgments. ~Laura
Hey Laura… Perhaps instead of “ranting” we should be protesting. Now there’s a thought. I can think of any number issues worth protesting about.. from screaming kids in planes to enormous tax burden the childfree (single or otherwise) bear for those who do have children. We put up with a lot in the spirit of “the greater good of society” yet we remain unacknowledged… let alone thanked. I get a keen reminder every time I look at my tax slip… or hear about the tax credits parents get for having children or hear about kids being allowed to make homes a hell on earth because parents think they should “just be kids.” Plenty to protest (or bitch) about. Writing about that stuff here is one way to highlight these things… we discover we are not alone.
To a point I agree with what you say… although I would venture to say that in the main the childfree understand parents far more than they are given credit for. Most understand people want to have children. What they don’t understand is why people (usually parents) insist on trying to convert them to their choice even when the childfree person has articulated they don’t want kids. And even when they themselves aren’t particularly happy.
I also wouldn’t like to feel that we get so into censoring what we say (and making it palatable for all) that it leads to even more defensiveness. I think we have to carve out our place in society… I don’t think it should hinge on waiting for parents to accept our choice. Because we are and our choice is, with or without society’s acceptance. Society needs to acknowledge that fact, whether they accept is up to them. I actually don’t really care what parents blogs say on their own parenting blogs.
Speaking from the point of view of Like It Is… if parents are being challenged by the discussions here and learning something – then great.
However as this blog is for childfree people not parents or wanna-be parents (both of whom have more resources and support online and off than we can even dream of) if parents get all defensive by reading what’s said on a childfree blog then I’d suggest they don’t read the blog. I want childfree people to come to my blog and find support for their choice and fellow childfree people they can converse and discuss the issues that concern them as childfree people in a pro-parent, pro-baby world.
http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/i-am-woman-and-i-am-proud-julia-gillard-reveals-her-true-self/story-e6frfllr-1225884063951
thought you maybe interested in this. Australia has its first female Prime Minister (albeit not elected ) and is happily childfree….of course you still get the odd pathetic comment about her ability to lead the country as she apparently cant relate to families.
Set your own life more easy take the loan and all you require.
I’m not even sure how I stumbled across this one, but I feel the need to comment all the same. First off, kudos to the people on here. I haven’t run across very many places where every arguement was intelligently thought out and not just some rant that consists of “Well, thats stupid and so are you!”
That being said….
A movement, you say? I don’t think it’s a movement so much as a more open-minded acceptance of what many have probably considered, and not done, all along. I think most people have children because, hey, you’re supposed to, right? And the more of us that see it as a choice, so will others. I don’t think recruiting is needed. Maybe it can just be a combination of screaming children for 6 hours on a plane, poor economic situations, poor relationships….
I will say, for myself, that I have NO intention of having any rugrats. I don’t hate kids, I don’t think I would make a horrible parent, I’m not financially unable. I just DON’T WANT TO. I love the kids belonging to family and friends, and I can see why they love them. I think for most people, that makes it harder to understand. The whole “Oh, but you’re so good with kids” thing. I enjoy my life, the way it is, and feel no need to make some massive permanent change to it, one that most people don’t fully appreciate until it’s too late. I wonder why no one thats trying to convince me to have kids mentions the 500 times I’ve heard them or someone else openly regret it. Or say “I had kids too young or soon” or whatever. Exactly. You had them too soon to understand what you were getting yourself into. It the biggest responsibility someone can have. So I don’t understand the people that criticize those who weigh their options and make a decision as opposed to those who just “let it happen”. I wish people could just leave the subject alone after hearing I don’t want children. I can’t be the only person that gets the all-knowing smirk thats followed up with “you’ll change your mind”. Or be the only asked, repeatedly, at every encounter BY THE SAME PEOPLE over and over….”when are you going to have some kids of your own..” At that moment, I wish people had a MUTE button that only I could control.
The other reason CF forums are “I hate brats” venting venues is uncertainty over who is childfree in real life. If I’m in a queue at a bank or shop with an acquaintance and some screeching brat covered in ice cream is hopping dangerously close to me, I might think, oh, this acquaintance is 36, she’s married for 7 years, clearly she’s childfree. She must feel just like I do! And then I’d say, “god, this screeching brat better not smear chocolate on me, how can anyone stand living that nightmare 24/7!” And she may burst into tears because she is on her 30th cycle of InVitro. You just don’t know. My “model childfree couple,” who I like and admire, just adopted a boy. The woman of the pair is 49 years old! I was sure they were happily childfree, but apparently they’d been trying to conceive and adopt for 11 years. I am sure I made comments that underlined my misunderstanding of the situation. Real life people who dont have children may not be childfree. We can’t vent to just anyone – only safe, vetted people. Not everyone has safe, vetted people. I can’t get too vocal because people, even my friends, can annoy me with “Well, your husband has children, so therefore you have children so you have to like them or you’re a bad stepmother therefore a bad person.” I want a place where I can be a childfree person who doesn’t like kids, who doesn’t consider herself a stepmother, who doesn’t care or want those kids and who has no tolerance for moomoo mommies. So yeah, guess what. Forums are great. Real life people can cause all sorts of drama, and I don’t need it. My husband knows and understands how I feel, we have no issues or misunderstandings. But that doesn’t mean I would give up my anonymity and cause him problems with the troll who popped those kids out. I want to vent without causing problems for the people I care about – me and my spouse. Internet works best.
Where I’m from, saying something like that to anyone can get a person slapped. Granted, I’m from the USA, where actions degenerates to violent action probably far than it should, but meh, the point is – people being buttholes tend to be put in his/her place if they get too far. Within the context of your situation, I wouldn’t commit to physical action against the person who said such things to me, but the context for which that person based his/her friendship with me would nullified, even if such context could be justified by whatever weird parameter the person justified as “friendship”.
I liked this blog when it was over at Blogspot. Britgirl actually updated more than once a month…stupid Real Life™.
Sean If you’re referring to my blog it was never over at Blog Spot. And if you’re bothered with my not updating my blog frequently enough for you…too bad – read back posts, suck it up… or don’t read it at all. Pretty simple. Snarky comments won’t get you very far with me. On the off-chance you are not referring to “this blog” but “some other blog” …the same applies.
Oh, don’t get me wrong, I certainly do not begrudge you in any way your time spent away from this blog.
I will respect childfree people when they quit making cruel comments about infertiles, telling us to “just adopt” and telling us God didn’t intend for us to have children. Only then, will I respect the childfree. Until then, they can shove it up their you-know-where.
Michelle, have ALL childfree people made cruel comments to you? I very much doubt that. Don’t be so quick to generalize people and try a little tolerance yourself.
Wow, Michelle, you sound like a bitter, angry, vulgar person. The vast majority of CF people I know are openminded and tolerant of other people and their lifestyle choices. What about you?
“I know that most people do not know a single person who is childfree…” Disagree there. Getting to be more and more of us. Not everyone talks about it openly, though. After some of the harassment and badgering I’ve seen, I can understand why folks don’t volunteer the information.
I think with the emergence and acknowledgment that there are many adults who consciously choose not to have children, the balance will tip and there will seemingly be fewer angry, “militant” childfree folks. Though after some of the reactions I’ve gotten, I can understand their irritation.