Like It Is

Every time I read about women’s “struggle” with infertility I have a hard time understanding how it gets magnified to such an extent as to warrant much of the attention it currently gets. People say it is not discussed enough - to me it seems that it’s all some people talk about. It seems always to be on childed people’s minds as if I happen to mention I chose not to have children, one of the more idiotic comments I get back is “what about women who can’t have children?” presumably to encourage me to reconsider my choice. Well what about them?

Of course, I know that, since I don’t feel sorry for women who “struggle with infertility” or women who try to move heaven and earth to have children, I’ll simply be written off as “harsh” “unsympathetic” and “insensitive”.

I read many of the comments – there are over 300 of them. And one thing I noticed was that, in the main anyone who suggested anything less than sympathy was deserved was generally labeled as negative, adoption was not welcomed as a solution to infertility even when some commentators suggested it and that the need to have a child coming from one’s own body was the ultimate goal.

This is what I find hard to understand: If the object of the yearning for a baby is to give love to that child then why is it that the thousands of abandoned children (supposedly also once wanted) are not a suitable objects for that maternal love? As one commentator said, imagine the impact on one changed child’s life.

If the object isn’t to give the child love then how does one describe the (want a child, must have a child, must have THEIR OWN child that is the driving force behind the quest for a child/children?

Adoption isn’t necessarily an instant solution. But here it seems to be bio child or no child.Which leads me to think that it’s not being a parent that is key here, it is giving birth to a biological child.

Perhaps counsel about being childfree should also be offered before people shell out all their worldly goods for IVF. Only that must be hard, because so few people actually understand or believe that being childfree as a choice can be liberating. Neither do they know any childfree examples.

Peppered through the comments are several telling phrases, such as what constitutes a “normal” woman’s body( one that produces children) and how anyone who dares voice anything other than sympathy is “hostile”, and an example of what these infertile women have to face from society.

I wonder if it’s anything near the comments that childfree men and women get on an almost daily basis. No sympathy for us, because of course WE are not striving to make our own bio-child… or any child for that matter.

Anyway, I am sure you can make up your own minds.

Sympathy for the Infertile?

In my last post I listed 40 of the more common questions that the childfree get on account of their decision not to breed or their lack of desire to go along with the masses in re-producing themselves. As was expected, we had some lively discussion. This post on first glance shares some similarities, but only some. Actually I thought of it while I was writing last week’s post but thought it would be interesting to separate the two issues.

By the time you’ve read down the list (and probably added your own) you will see that the difference with list list is that they are statements. Many of you commented that the childed don’t even bother to ask questions, they simply make a statement of, in their mind, “fact.” Exactly where they get their “facts” from remains a mystery, particularly since they can be demolished with just a little thought. Because most are not even logical. Doesn’t stop them being levied with breathtaking certainty though. I won’t go into how insulting they are, I think that’s self evident, particularly if you’ve been on the receiving end.

Now, over the past couple of years these so-called “statements of fact have appeared in posts on Like It Is (and on other blogs – kudos there) under topics of their own, so you’ll recognize many of them instantly. And YES! They ARE bingoes for the most part. But, like the previous post, I wanted to see what they looked like all grouped together. And like the previous post I found myself wondering what right people have to make these statements… and how much crap we as childfree people find ourselves putting up with. So here goes. Let’s see how many I can get down…

1. Every woman wants children
2. Having children is a natural part of life
3. Children are the future
4. There’s nothing more important than being called Mummy. Or Daddy or parent.)
5. It’s different when they’re your own
6. You’ll regret it if you don’t have children
7. Children are your way of giving back
8. You’ll change your mind when (fill in blank…) you’ll grow out of it
9. You’re missing out on life (if you don’t have children)
10. Once you have them, you will love them
11. People who don’t have kids are unloved
12. People who don’t have kids are lonely
13. You don’t leave a legacy if you don’t have kids
14. Your life will be empty without kids
15. Having kids is what you do
16. You must hate children if you don’t want your own
17. Not having children is un-natural
18. Not having kids is un-Christian
19. We are supposed to have children – God says so
20. You’re unfulfilled without kids
21. I can’t imagine life without my kids
22. Having kids defines you
23. Having children makes you grow up
24. Not having kids is selfish
25. You’re selfish if you don’t want kids
26. You must hate parents if you don’t like kids
27. Having children makes you a family
28. Having a child is the ultimate womanly achievement
29. Having a child is the best thing ever
30. Nothing is more important than having children
31. You’re not contributing to society if you don’t have children
32. You’re not doing your bit if you don’t have children
33. You’re wasting your life if you don’t have kids
34. But You’re smart… you’d make great parents
35. You’re (fill in appropriate blank with political/religious/racial noun) you ought to have kids
36. You’re letting your family/religion/race/country/planet down if you don’t have kids
37. It’s a sin not to want kids
38. You’ll be unhappy if you don’t have kids
39. You’re denying your husband children if you don’t want kids
40. You have good jobs, you should have kids
41. If you don’t want kids, there’s no point getting married
42. A child makes your life/marriage complete
43. A child is how you leave your mark on the world
44. Having kids makes you a better/stronger/kinder/selfless/person
45. But you were meant to have kids!
46. Children make you happy
47. Since you don’t have children you couldn’t possibly understand (fill in kid related issue)
48. The rewards of having children outweigh everything you could possibly imagine
49. Men grow up through having kids
50. You’re obviously not cut out to be a parent
51. If you don’t have children you must be angry and bitter
52. Raising children is the most important job in the world
53. If you don’t have kids you don’t leave your genes behind
54. Women are programmed to want children
55. Well, you’re getting married. It’s good you’re settling down and having kids
56. You must have a child… it’s the best feeling in the world!
57. We’re just waiting for you to have your own kids
58. You don’t know what you’re missing
59. If you don’t want kids, you need a psychiatrist
60. Kids are more important than the planet
61. You’re not a real woman unless you have children
62. They can do great things with fertility drugs these days!
63. Your marriage is empty without children

Wow… we’re at 63 and counting – and I’m tired. The thing is as we know – there are several more of these bingos (check Explosive Bombchelle’s blog) and on other blogs, and most of all in our collective memories when we’ve either been on the receiving end of these stupid statements or know someone who has.

And, though I know that some of these also are bingo-ed as questions. I have avoided listing the questions. We had 40 of those last week.

Technorati Tags: childfree

I thought it would be interesting to list (some of) them. It’s really staggering the questions childfree people get asked simply because we’ve made a choice not to re-produce. These questions are quite a massive intrusion into a very personal decision. Yet the childfree get asked them, and sometimes, we even try to answer them! Even though it’s none of anyone’s business why we don’t want to have kids, people seem to make a point of making it their business.

I’ve numbered them simply for ease of reading… they’re all as irritating as the other and they’re in no particular order of importance. Some are so silly I have trouble not adding (duh!?) after them. And it doesn’t include the statements. Those are different. But many of these questions are often presented to the childfree as statements of “fact.”

1. Do you have children?
2. Why not?
3. Don’t you like children?
4. When are you going to have children?
5. Aren’t you leaving it too late?
6. When are you going to give me grandkids?
7. Why don’t you like children?
8. Why are you so selfish?
9. Doesn’t your husband want children?
10. Who’s going to look after you (when you’re old, sick,)
11. Why aren’t you doing your bit for society?
12. Why don’t you want to be a mother?
13. Why don’t you want to be a father?
14. Isn’t that selfish?
15. Who’s going to pay for your pension?
16. Who are you going to leave your shoes, house, clothes, worldly goods to?
17. Aren’t you lonely?
18. Are you normal?
19. How can you not want kids?
20. Don’t you like yourself?
21. Do you hate parents?
22. What if your parent’s hadn’t had you?
23. What’s wrong with you?
24. What about women who can’t have children?
25. What else is there in life if you don’t have children?
26. Isn’t that what everyone does?
27. What’s life if you don’t have kids?
28. What if everyone thought like you?
29. Did you have a bad childhood?
30. Don’t you want to make your mother/father grandparents?
31. Don’t you want a fambly family?
32. What do you spend your money on?
33. What contribution have you made to society?
34. How can you deprive your husband of a child/children?
35. Why aren’t you fulfilling your nurturing role?
36. Don’t you want to have your own flesh and blood?
37. Don’t you want to experience being pregnant?
38. Where’s your maternal instinct?
39. How will you fill your life?
40. When are you going to Grow Up?

I stopped at 40 but of course there are many more. I’m sure you can add your own and even variations. Go right ahead.

Technorati Tags: childfree, childfree

I thought this was so absolutely spot on I had to post it as soon as I saw it.

Childfree cinemas (theatres) are long overdue. Can we have them soon please? How many more films (movies) does one have to have ruined by parents who are simply incapable of discerning what’s suitable for their progeny?? This is one reason that, while I want to go and see Iron Man, I’ve held off. Because the chances of it being spoiled by said kids and teens is disturbingly high (and yes, pun is intended). Cinemas/theatres seem all to happy to grab our money for their overpriced tickets, yet could give a toss for whether we get what we paid for. Maybe we should be voting with our feet.

Enjoy Mark’s post and the comments. If there’s a vote, campaign or whatever, I’m in.

Meanwhile I may have to wait for Iron Man on Blue Ray. And let’s not mention the forthcoming Batman film which is going to be pretty dark. I think we might be safe there as the rating on Batman will and should be higher, but who knows? If any kids are at that one…

Why We need childfree cinemas

Technorati Tags: Childfree, Iron Man

I was reading Norma’s comment to an older post and couldn’t help but think that this is painful proof that when it comes to being childfree, childfree people may only have themselves and their feelings to rely on. In a way, this also links back to my last post on society’s intense pressure to pro-create and the issue of acceptance, which was going to be the main theme of my post today.

We had some very interesting discussion, which I think makes interesting reading for anyone contemplating the childfree decision. And by the way, (since it’s becoming increasingly misused by non-childfree persons), by childfree I do not mean carting the kiddies off to someone else for the day.

Norma’s story illustrates vividly that anything other than complete and utter maternal love and feelings for a child is neither accepted nor tolerated by society. Since it’s an automatic “given” that every woman wants to give birth, it follows that every woman has an unending fountain of maternal feelings. If those feelings haven’t made an appearance, then childbirth is supposed to automatically and miraculously switch them on, and without question. Women who even express the idea that they might not love their new born child (let alone any other children) are either dismissed or branded as wicked, evil and definitely abnormal. Read the rest of this entry »

Technorati Tags: childfree, childfree

The inspiration for this post came from… the comments on my last post!

It’s still a rather chilling thought that for many of us, talking about being childfree as a way of life is in most cases impossible or at the very least difficult. While most people bring up the fact on nearly every opportunity that they’re planing on having kids, or they’ve had kids or that they wished they had kids, or they’re desperate for kids… childfree people either grin and bear it or, when the inevitable question comes around, get their contribution in. The contribution being, of course that no, we don’t want kids, thanks.

It’s not unusual for the conversation to stop then and there (talk about a lead balloon) with others mostly not knowing what to say. Or you get bingoes. The other scenario (one that I employ as much as possible) is to get myself away from the conversation or change the subject.

I (like many childfree folk) don’t sit around talking about how we don’t want to have kids. We don’t sit around talking about kids (duh!) because we’re thinking about other things that hold more importance to us.

Yet, it is impossible to escape the mantra you must reproduce yourself to be counted as a valid member of society. Being able to resist that pressure and live a full life where you can stand your ground and live the life you decide to live is a true distinction and the huge reward of being childfree.

On my last post the comments were, as always, insightful and very thought-provoking.

One commenter said this..

“With every passing day I realize just how smart I am to have remained CF. All that fighting with family and friends, sticking to my gut feelings that parenthood was an over-inflated, cloaked-in-sugar lie was the best decision I’ve ever made in my life. The older I get, the more I realized just how much regret would have filled me had I caved in to the pressures of becoming a parent.”

Too true. Because, as a group we are still not very visible – yet – the fact that the pressure to parent is so intense is underestimated. We have to fight for our own right… parents, friends, colleagues, it seems everyone is bent on trying to change our minds to their way of thinking… produce kids. There is little or no balance -  the message is you must parent.

Exactly why some are so intent on converting the childfree to parenting has never been explained.

While we might be told to “obey our gut instinct” – because it’s rarely wrong, do what’s right for our lives, etc. That has to be dropped at the altar of parenthood. Want a loving close relationship with your spouse or partner? After all isn’t that why you married in the first place? Sure you can have it… only after you’ve had kids. Too late you say? Well, hey, you can fit it in. Make time for yourselves as a couple, get someone to watch the kids. Remember the children come first. That means everything else has to get in line… probably for ever.

(If you want a more detailed insight into that aspect, read the eye-opening posts by m, who’s a parent. Read the rest of this entry »

Technorati Tags: childfree

Yes, this is a bingo. It often comes in the form of a question when trying to convince a childfree person (who’s just said they don’t want children) that they really need to reconsider their choice to be childfree and get on with having kids. I wrote about this bingo a while back. But, as with most bingoes it never seems to be far away to be launched at an unsuspecting childfree person without warning.

Childfree people (and in particular women) are frequently asked whether they’ll regret their decision not to pro-create. The short answer is: “That’s a stupid question.” It’s stupid because, unless one has a crystal ball, there is no way to know what one is going to be thinking 10 or 20 years hence. Having said that, most of the childfree people I know have no regrets. So why should people assume that they are waiting around the corner, just waiting to jump out at us?

Of course, if the bingo gets posed as a question, even though it’s a stupid question, at least it’s a question. Most of the bingoes come in the form of a statement… “Don’t want kids?” You’ll regret it when (fill in the blank here).”

The fact is there’s a greater chance of having children and regretting it (having bought into the myth that it’s what you need to do) than there is in not having children and regretting not doing so. The #1 reason Childfree people are told we’ll regret not having children because “There’ll be no-one to look after you when you get old…”

The fact that there is no guarantee of any child doing that seems not to factor in this argument. As one commentator put if before, there isn’t a child that is trouble free. No-one is guaranteed perfect or even ideal children. But I think the most selfish aspect of this bingo is that a person should have a child as some kind of insurance against feeling “regret”.

And I’ve known many who’ve said they’ll have kids in case they regret NOT doing so when it’s too late! Apparently this seems to be a big factor in the “reasons to have a child” list.

There’s no way anyone can say 100% what they’ll feel in the future. But there are all kinds of things we regret – it’s part of life. In fact, with every decision, and every choice there is the potential to wish you’d made another decision. That’s why they are choices, it’s  part of the deal and it’s just part of life. And the more thought that has gone into a decision, the less chance there is of entertaining regrets. Of course, since most give little thought before they re-produce it’s no wonder this might be somewhat strange to many.

And, let’s face it, if one has regrets – so what?

I have no regrets about being childfree. It’s the right decision for me and it would be odd if it suddenly wasn’t the right decision (I mean, we’re talking years here). I feel that having regrets is a waste of time – and that’s if I even took the time to care. By the time you entertain them it’s usually too late to do anything about them anyway. Turning back the clock isn’t an option. Life is too short for regrets and each thought wasted on them robs you of something else to be thankful for of getting on with. Like the benefits of my childfree life, my freedom of choice or the 101 things there are to be grateful for.

It would be nice if the childed simply stopped trying to convert others to their way of life and thinking, but that’s going to take time. In the meantime should someone smugly infer that you’ll have regrets if you don’t have kids, you can cheerfully tell them. “No, you won’t. But you’re not about to have kids to insure against an imaginary regret.”

And at least you are confident enough to live without needing a child for validation… or old age insurance. Or you can just tell them where to go… that’s my preference.

I’d be interested in you sharing yours – particularly if you’ve had this bingo?

Technorati Tags: childfree

Let’s leave aside the fact that I consider childfree families to be families as well. And the fact that I’m unimpressed with the oft trotted out (and rather tired) “reason” that anyone having children these days is “building the future” and “making the next brood of taxpayers who will “support all of us non-parents in our old age.”

The fact is, regardless of whether the child comes about by accident or by design, people with children get priority, both inside and outside the workplace.

This BBC article has hit the nail on the head with “the family” being one of the many sacred cows that everyone’s afraid to challenge – the assumption that people with children get options that non-childed don’t get a sniff of.

Recently a colleague mentioned he was going on six weeks paternity leave in a couple of weeks to enable his wife go back to work after having their first child. Since our company offers maternity and paternity leave it would be daft of him not to take advantage of it. But I couldn’t help thinking that once more “family friendly” meant that only parents with kids really get the friendliness and benefits such as time off to spend with the children. Childfree people, meanwhile, have to justify every single absence.

Politicians can hardly wait to grab the first baby and kiss it, while promising to deliver to “families” by which they mean people with children only. Families supposedly win more votes, make politicians appear more caring – at least to those who want to be taken in by the lie. As soon as they’re voted in of course they do the same old things as the last lot. And they still manage to see that people with children get preferential treatment.

As the BBC article states, politicians and corporations may need to start rethinking – and soon. For one thing, says the article:

“the patterns of how people live are changing. People living in married couples, for centuries the backbone of traditional family structures, will in the not-too-distant future almost be matched in numbers by single-person households.”

In the UK, the number of people who live alone has has doubled since the 1970’s according to the same article, while the number of people getting married has almost halved.

Where some fast thinking needs to be done is in the workplace. Flexible working should apply to everyone, not just those with children. If a parent is allowed to bunk off and go to hockey matches, school plays and other child-related activities - without having to make up time or have any fewer holidays then why isn’t the same latitude extended to those without kids?

In addition, jobs are held open for those on maternity leave (at least in most forward looking companies in the UK and Canada). Yet the number of women graduates who never have children is set to reach one in three, says the article.

When we hear sound-bites like “hard-working families” it’s not referring to the hardworking singles or childfree people (who can’t simply bunk off, not having the excuse of being childed or pregnant– or both. Yet the childfree work just as hard, if not harder, pay considerably more tax (direct and indirect). In fact, childfree people are working hard to support the rights of those who’ve decided to have children. The amount of tax I pay each year tells me that. And the harder we work, the more tax we pay – with no recognition.

Oh, and anyone who’s waiting on a government pension to support them is in for a rude shock. If you’re not socking money away right now, be prepared to live at poverty levels if you’re waiting for a pension by the time we retire. So much for breeding the new supporting tax payers (who by the way might not get jobs anyway, but that’s another story).

We’re told the childed are breeding the future…whose? And aren’t these new additions going to be using more of the world’s resources?

More importantly, while not asking for benefits for the childfree, equal recognition for time off to do the things that matter to us (and is not related to kids or caring) is long overdue.

Useful tax breaks wouldn’t go amiss either.

Your comments?

Why Do Families Always Come First

Technorati Tags: childfree

How can I keep this short and sweet? I could begin by simply stating how nice it would be to see this statement –

“Childfree. No Justification Required.” But, I fear, that’s a long way away. But it is posts like this that make me sorely wish that that day was Today. Or sometime soon at any rate.

The skinny? Simple. If you’re childfree you don’t need to provide a “good reason” for those who simply don’t get why you’re childfree, but who immediately seem to lose no time to assign possible list of “So-called legitimate reasons not to have children.” According to this post:

Finances? Check.

Medical Issues? Check.

Demanding career? Hang on… erm. Yeah. OK. Check.

Don’t have any mothering in you? Hmmm… Check. I think this must include not having the mythical maternal instinct or a tyrannical biological clock.

Just don’t want kids? Pass.

Don’t like kids? Pass – again.

Now, I did not see the original post when CW sent me this link. But from the post it’s obvious that yet again a childed person had seen fit to rant and vent against the childfree, got a rather unexpected reaction, backtracked and offered standard “I’m sorry if I offended… I didn’t mean to…” But note – the apology is interestingly worded… in fact it appears to only include childfree folk “who love children.”

What did I gather from the post. That yet another childed person who knows no childfree people, and probably sees fit to say that it’s ok to be childfree as long as you have a nice neat reason.

Well, here’s the thing. Some childfree people DON’T like children. Some childfree people DO like children. Some can’t tolerate them – and yes, that includes the nasty, wild out of control juves who make life a hell on earth for their parents and whoever happens to be anywhere around them. I won’t include the kids who like to beat up other kids and take their possessions (oh, they’re only 12… or maybe 14). Ah, yes, but they’re precious.

But all that’s an aside. Childfree people don’t need a reason to be childfree, regardless of whether these are assigned by uninformed childed people who can’t seem to see past their own world view.

Chances are we’ve given far more thought to it than most childed people (many of whom clearly should not be parents).

Instead of trying to make excuses for or fathom why childfree people don’t want to pro-create, why don’t childed people pay more attention to people who simply have kids for the many bingo reasons given to the childfree?

Regardless of the the many reasons that childfree people are…childfree, comments like “It’s OK not to have children if (tick the appropriate box) are pretty patronizing – to say the least.

It is OK to choose not to have children for the simple reason that… wait for it… you don’t want them.

Having children is a choice. If you’re childfree (or a fence-sitter for that matter) you should know that you do not need to justify yourself. The demands to justify reasons why you don’t have/want children come from those with children.

So you don’t understand the way some childfree people feel? Get over it. You don’t need to understand. And, as one of ToThe Ends Of The Earth’s commentators said

The choice not to have children is a personal one and not subject to be judged by the childed… or anyone else.

Thanks, but we really don’t require your permission.

And ChrisW – thanks for finding the link!

Let Me Clarify My thoughts on childfreedom

Technorati Tags: Childfree, childfree

First of all dear readers – Hello – Britgirl’s back! And I had a fabulous time in England.

There are new rules at Bella Online.  Of the Censoring kind. And several childfree members are leaving have left.

Bella Online - Married No Kids Thread

Bella Online - Married No Kids, later posts

I was informed by another childfree person of this development in the Bella Online, Married No Kids Forum. I do visit Bella Online from time to time (though I would not call myself as regular a visitor as some of the members of Married No Kids, mainly because of time). Each time I was there however I was impressed by the posts, and the open down to earth childfree discussion and conversation. And since several of my posts are linked there I get many hits on Like It Is from the MNK forum, even from articles I wrote many months ago.

Now though, that there have been “complaints” about the forum. These appear to centre on using certain words considered derogatory. “Breeder” and “it” when referring to people who have children and to children respectively.

You will have to read the post thread to get the full story – as I don’t want to present half the story. It’s not hard though to get an idea of what has happened. On one hand the moderator is considering whether she wants to carry on moderating the forum. On the other, and this is what really stopped me is that there have apparently been complaints against some of the members that post in the forum. What those complaints are about (or who they’re against) nobody is quite sure. From reading the posts it appears that those less understanding about the childfree have seen fit to complain.

Anyway, I encourage you to read through the threads… perhaps beginning with the last post. Some CF members are going to set up their own blog where they can talk and vent about childfree issues without having to watch their words.  I think this is a great idea and the way to go. The comments on the forum were extremely interesting to me.

The childfree segment of the population - and indeed of Bella Online -  are a small segment of the population - even though our numbers are growing. Yet our views are rarely recognized in society, they are all but drowned out by the loud voice of a child-crazed society that stubbornly believes that all women should be mothers, all men should be fathers and all couples should be parents. In short, pro-create or you’re nothing and you don’t matter. As one commentator said,

“we spend our lives keeping our mouths shut at work”  - true, as family friendliness doesn’t include non-childed people unless we force it.

And now, increasingly in forums and online, the childfree are having to walk on eggshells to appease those who don’t like some of things we say.

We use disclaimers… if we don’t want kids, don’t forget the disclaimer that “oh we don’t hate kids, we just don’t want our own.”

Or, “I don’t mean your kid when I’m talking about the ill-behaved juvenile who’s just beaten up a fellow citizen.” Of course not.

We now have to specify, as another poster said, if we are talking about parents that

“it’s not all parents, just the stupid ones. Hey, my best friends are parents!”

We add disclaimers like “most childfree people like kids,” which  may be true, except that there are some that, like or not DO NOT like kids. That’s their right. ( It doesn’t make someone a child-hater - or worse).  And it’s odd that those who blab about liking so much kids have no issue with the steady stream of abuse meted out towards some of them and the equally steady stream of bad parents who are unable to see beyond their own narrow and often ill-informed perspective. Did I say narrow?

Now, that in itself isn’t my problem. I understand that people want to have children and for some odd reason many women feel incomplete without children as their raison d’etre. I know many parents give less than two minutes thought to why they became parents, but I get it. And frankly, I don’t really care.

The thing is I don’t visit parenting blogs, or fertility or kiddie blogs to get a rise or to tell them how great being childfree is. So I wonder why then we have to appease those on the other side of the fence? Do we now have to watch what we say in childfree forums and online? To make childed parents who happen to stray in feel “comfortable? Play nice, folks or someone’ll get their knickers in a twist about your childfree views and expressions. Be bland, conform.  If that isn’t censorship (which is righteously denied of course) I wonder what is.

I read almost all the posts in the thread and they make fascinating reading. They were well balanced. I encourage you to read them as well.

Meanwhile,  many are leaving Married No Kids to set up their own blog it’s a loss to the forum but at least they won’t have to worry about the thought police and being told what they should and should not say and do. It seems to me that there are enough signs of creeping censorship to convince childfre-ers that MNK is no longer the place for them to do share the ups (and in particular the downs) of their childfree lives.  So, quite rightly they’re upping stakes and moving on to where they don’t have to restrict to appease.

Very sad that yet another childfree space may soon cease to be, yet I’m looking forward to even greater things from them.

Word to the wise. It’s impossible to please everyone. It just can’t be done. You are going to offend someone somewhere.  That’s life.

Your thoughts.

Note - this post has been slightly edited - (but happily, never censored)!